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On October 23 2024 04:38 gTank wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2024 04:36 Fango wrote:On October 23 2024 00:02 gTank wrote:
Yeah, I dont get it too. There are so many great RTS games right now that are fun and awesome to play, for all genres even. Stormgate failing is no end for RTS, Stormgate is absolutely not as important for the genre as some might think. RTS is in a good spot, there are plenty of cool games coming out. But they are almost all indie releases, Stormgate failing would be a big nail for RTS with a budget or blizzard style. The genre is already considered not profitable by the big studios. If Stormgate fails we will likely not get anything as big. I rather have good games like age of mythology and godsworn than AAA games like Stormgate tbh.
AoM is an old game and wasn't exactly indie at the time. Need to try godsworn.
Admittedly there are a bunch of RTS I'm keeping an eye on, but I don't think I'll ladder again and a lot of these have a PvP focus.
On October 23 2024 01:59 gfdtrefgdgjk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2024 01:04 gingerfluffmuffnr2 wrote:On October 23 2024 00:51 Acrofales wrote:
The lack of any serious tournament announcements for SC2 is far more troubling than SG crashing and burning. We need to be happy and thankful that it even lasted this long imo. Modern Blizzard is just on the same level as Ubisoft and EA. Why? How much did Old-Blizzard invest? You also gotta post a timeline of when Old-Blizzard ends and Modern Blizzard starts. Its just so vague. And how exactly are they on the same level as Ubisoft and EA? And if Blizzard doesnt invest more into the game, isnt the conclusion that player didnt invest?
I mean old Blizzard just delivered games that stood near the top or at the top of their genre. They were buy one get one, get support for ten-twenty years to patch an already great game into an amazing one.
I feel like Sc2 is the last of that line. And a friend of mine can't even play coop anymore cause his comms all reset to lvl 0 and he can't queue and blizz support does jackshit.
Nowadays they're harping in on the big markets with all these shitty business practices. SG is way overpriced and they hope ppl don't notice cause they buy one at a time. OW2 was a cash grab, hearthstone was greedy, diablo 4 was mid and uninspired (but admittedly the pricing was fair).
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On October 23 2024 00:13 SoleSteeler wrote:It's just the end for me, not for everyone - as I said, I'm not really interested in other RTS games. It probably means I'm not a big RTS fan in the first place? I played the hell out of Warcraft 2, 3, SC/BW, SC2. I played a little bit of AoE4, earlier Command & Conqueors (Tiberian Sun), a little Total Annihilation and also some games no one remembers like Armies of Exigo. (Tried to find it on that image, might be there). Of the non-Blizzard RTSs, probably less than 20 hours combined across all games. I'm not a big campaign guy and I would imagine 90% of the games in that image have small or no multiplayer player bases. I like RTS for the competition and e-sports scenes. I genuinely find Stormgate fun, but it definitely won't last for a long time in its current state without more creativity. I'm certainly not invested in FGS, and in this thread earlier I strongly recommended not to invest in it unless you were OK with losing 100% of your principal. I did buy the Kickstarter, but I've got about 93 hours in it now, so if it failed today I've got my money's worth. In my mind I was also thinking of SC2 - which currently has no tournament scene and apparently nothing on the horizon. Makes me bitter, which is why I posted what I did.  Maybe I should try another RTS to rekindle that passion a bit. 
I'm on the same boat. I like to play competitive 1v1 rts, I'm tired of sc2 and wc3, old to have 500 apm, SG felt like a perfect opportunity to relive both communities.
Tried aoe4 and few more but it just doesn't cut it
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
I love RTS, but am more into singleplayer and co-op content that is more laid back or that i can tackle at my own pace than i used to be - especially since SC2 showed how well you can do both. Stormgate just isn't a good game for us and won't be.
Zerospace is free to try next month and Riftbreaker has co-op next year or so
I feel like Sc2 is the last of that line. And a friend of mine can't even play coop anymore cause his comms all reset to lvl 0 and he can't queue and blizz support does jackshit.
Hot take, it would have been better IMO if SC2 multiplayer was just shut down years ago. It was a great game, it had a great run for 10 years or so. The last years have been disastrous on every front and we're damaging the RTS scene by keeping it halfway alive and tricking new players into giving money to activision before they understand that the game is like this.
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I have soooo many RTS on my steam wishlist from the 2 men indie team (Godsworn) to the 200 men AA Studios (Tempest Rising), there's gotta be something good coming.
Some go for a more Starcrafty style, some a more C&C style, some are mixed and some are completely unique. Don't give up hope!
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On October 23 2024 04:38 gTank wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2024 04:36 Fango wrote:On October 23 2024 00:02 gTank wrote:
Yeah, I dont get it too. There are so many great RTS games right now that are fun and awesome to play, for all genres even. Stormgate failing is no end for RTS, Stormgate is absolutely not as important for the genre as some might think. RTS is in a good spot, there are plenty of cool games coming out. But they are almost all indie releases, Stormgate failing would be a big nail for RTS with a budget or blizzard style. The genre is already considered not profitable by the big studios. If Stormgate fails we will likely not get anything as big. I rather have good games like age of mythology and godsworn than AAA games like Stormgate tbh.
Stormgate is not a AAA game
Have now put Riftbreaker and DORF on my wishlist. The RTS future is looking brighter by the day :D
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On October 23 2024 04:38 gTank wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2024 04:36 Fango wrote:On October 23 2024 00:02 gTank wrote:
Yeah, I dont get it too. There are so many great RTS games right now that are fun and awesome to play, for all genres even. Stormgate failing is no end for RTS, Stormgate is absolutely not as important for the genre as some might think. RTS is in a good spot, there are plenty of cool games coming out. But they are almost all indie releases, Stormgate failing would be a big nail for RTS with a budget or blizzard style. The genre is already considered not profitable by the big studios. If Stormgate fails we will likely not get anything as big. I rather have good games like age of mythology and godsworn than AAA games like Stormgate tbh.
So either endless remasters of hugely popular games from 20 years ago (AoM) or super indie titles made by 2 devs (Godsworn)?
I agree the games are both fantastic, but I also want RTS games with a budget so the genre can actually modernise technologically. And personally I enjoy Blizzard style RTS the most. And if Stormgate fails we'll probably never get any of that.
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There are way more RTS games out there than only these two I mentioned.
If you enjoy blizzard games its also completely fine, BW, SC2 and WC3 still exist today.
But the Blizzard of back then doesnt exist anymore. The good talent is already long gone.
Waiting for such games to come back is pointless because there never will be games like that anymore.
FG had promised so much but the failure that was delivered was not it either. Still time for 1.0 to drop and maybe prove that it is a great game, meanwhile I enjoy what is out there already.
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On October 23 2024 20:30 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2024 04:38 gTank wrote:On October 23 2024 04:36 Fango wrote:On October 23 2024 00:02 gTank wrote:
Yeah, I dont get it too. There are so many great RTS games right now that are fun and awesome to play, for all genres even. Stormgate failing is no end for RTS, Stormgate is absolutely not as important for the genre as some might think. RTS is in a good spot, there are plenty of cool games coming out. But they are almost all indie releases, Stormgate failing would be a big nail for RTS with a budget or blizzard style. The genre is already considered not profitable by the big studios. If Stormgate fails we will likely not get anything as big. I rather have good games like age of mythology and godsworn than AAA games like Stormgate tbh. So either endless remasters of hugely popular games from 20 years ago (AoM) or super indie titles made by 2 devs (Godsworn)? I agree the games are both fantastic, but I also want RTS games with a budget so the genre can actually modernise technologically. And personally I enjoy Blizzard style RTS the most. And if Stormgate fails we'll probably never get any of that.
What's blizzard style RTS? I would say Godsworn is a blend between aoe and wc3
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United States33495 Posts
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New art director is interesting... and the campaign improvements will be nice (whenever they actually land).
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On October 23 2024 22:52 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2024 20:30 Fango wrote:On October 23 2024 04:38 gTank wrote:On October 23 2024 04:36 Fango wrote:On October 23 2024 00:02 gTank wrote:
Yeah, I dont get it too. There are so many great RTS games right now that are fun and awesome to play, for all genres even. Stormgate failing is no end for RTS, Stormgate is absolutely not as important for the genre as some might think. RTS is in a good spot, there are plenty of cool games coming out. But they are almost all indie releases, Stormgate failing would be a big nail for RTS with a budget or blizzard style. The genre is already considered not profitable by the big studios. If Stormgate fails we will likely not get anything as big. I rather have good games like age of mythology and godsworn than AAA games like Stormgate tbh. So either endless remasters of hugely popular games from 20 years ago (AoM) or super indie titles made by 2 devs (Godsworn)? I agree the games are both fantastic, but I also want RTS games with a budget so the genre can actually modernise technologically. And personally I enjoy Blizzard style RTS the most. And if Stormgate fails we'll probably never get any of that. What's blizzard style RTS? I would say Godsworn is a blend between aoe and wc3
Yeah Godsworn feels very much AoM with a splash of WC3, and it's great don't get me wrong.
As for Blizzard style RTS. They tend to involve things like having have fewer races but very asymmetric ones, fixed/standardised maps as opposed to random ones, they lack a focus on base building compared to the genre as a whole, economies are driven almost entirely by making workers, and they have extremely high micro ceilings.
And arguably most important, they have map editors and well refined/understood game engines.
You could also make the case for Blizzard RTS being the gold standard because they had the biggest budgets and could spend several years in development, and of the upcoming releases, Stormgate is the only one that comes close.
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I'll say that if you frequently change the roadmap, it becomes somewhat pointless to have one.
But the priorities here are solid. Performance and visuals are the two biggest downfalls. A lot of people either can't run the game smoothly or find it visually unappealing. And although there aren't major art changes about to come, terrain and lighting make the biggest difference to what you actually see when playing.
A new art director is also interesting. I would assume it's because they're planning to pump out skin and need people to design them. But they also have a better chance of redesigning the weak parts of their current art, and despite what the community might say, it makes sense to do this now when the editor is nearer completion, than back when the engine was half built.
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There is a lot of room for improvement when it comes to performance. It'll be interesting to see what changes occur over the next few weeks. Regarding the adding of an Art Director: a good thing about the video game industry layoffs in California and the USA is it decreases the likelihood that FG's employees get poached.
On October 28 2024 22:15 Fango wrote:I'll say that if you frequently change the roadmap, it becomes somewhat pointless to have one.
we need a venn diagram for the flow chart of the roadmaps.
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United States33495 Posts
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All important changes, so I'm happy and applaud frost giant but on a personal note I'm disappointed no balance or meta tweaks.
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I'm excited to try 3v3 but I didn't get much out of the update, personally.
In the recent patch, my PC already ran co-op quite well, but late game performance is even better now. Thankfully I'm able to find co-op games again the past few days.
I enjoyed watching MC vs. Shine and Stork vs. Jaedong the other day. I was reading the Korean live comments and people did seem genuinely curious about the game. I saw one question about "is this game popular?" and the response was "it's pretty new and still being developed". They didn't seem to be throwing the baby out with the bathwater like in the west.
The games were just mostly macro-based hammering large armies into each other though with low tier armies (+ Animancers/Weavers), so the games did feel similar after a while.
If anyone is curious:
Stork vs. Jaedong
Shine vs. MC
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Stork rolled him wow.
Afaik, showmatches are on Sundays
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I run show matches on Sundays, yep. Not affiliated with the developers though
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Here is a comment i pulled from Reddit user Ascenttomadness
This looks so half assed and lazy... You're telling me this was always the main vision for SG since it's inception, complete with "years of testing within SC2 map editor" and this is what you're showing off? You can't even say it's just early, years of testing in a feature complete and highly customizable game and THIS is what you have to show? The BS meter is beyond measure at this point, even reading the forced commentary was fucking painful. This hail mary is going to drop hard and close out an embarrassing dev cycle.
I agree with a lot of this comment except the conclusion that it will "close out an embarrassing dev cycle". I agree it appears half assed and lazy. That does not mean the employees are half assed and lazy. Managing these kinds of projects is tough and publishers like ATVI made it look so easy you did not know ATVI mattered at all.
I think many of the ex-Blizzard people continue to be smart, driven, and talented. They lack the vision, direction, and incentive structures that a smart publisher like ATVI provides as a back bone for their creative efforts.
I do not consider what FG has done to be "an embarrassing dev cycle" because they are producing a somewhat enjoyable, somewhat interesting, WORKING PRODUCT. Bonfire is embarassing. Rob Pardo left Blizzard 10 years ago and has produced nothing. Can I get a job at Bonfire and be in charge of company culture?
If Stormgate fails I do not think it is some giant embarrassment. I think FG has put forth a solid level of effort, thought, and execution in making a WORKING PRODUCT with some degree of appeal for RTS players. OTOH, these studios like Neon Koi, Firewalk, Haven, and Bonfire that exist for 5+ years and produce absolutely nothing are embarassing themselves.
These studios I've listed could be the subjects of a real world Dilbert cartoon series. They are embarassing.
The guy who sold Firewalk Studios to Sony just a year ago made Sony look like morons.
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EPT
