EPTStormgate/Frost Giant Megathread - Page 133
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LunarC
United States1186 Posts
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CicadaSC
United States1972 Posts
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Harris1st
Germany7326 Posts
On June 20 2024 20:58 CicadaSC wrote: do we think stormgate will be bigger than starcraft currently is? being that it will take players from other RTS games, and new rts players as well Right of the bat? No In time with some care and love? Possibly | ||
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ETisME
12809 Posts
On June 20 2024 20:58 CicadaSC wrote: do we think stormgate will be bigger than starcraft currently is? being that it will take players from other RTS games, and new rts players as well I personally don't think so. When battlebits came out, everyone rushed into that game because the new battlefield sucked. Same with palworld and pokemon. I don't see anyone from bw or wc3 thinking sc2 sucks or even sc2 players wanting to switch, they simply stick with what they like. And I just don't see any unit comp in SG are remotely close to what marine tank in sc2 can offer to both player and viewer. This alone to me means sc2 will likely not be toppled by SG for years. the sad thing is all the rts games are really not capturing a wider audience, for f2p model it's probably the worst case scenario. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On June 20 2024 20:58 CicadaSC wrote: do we think stormgate will be bigger than starcraft currently is? being that it will take players from other RTS games, and new rts players as well The biggest thing for Stormgate is that it's trying to advance the tech, global matchmaking with rollback, a live replay/observer system, advanced stats etc. Will it be bigger than starcraft at it's peak? Probably not. But it could be bigger than 2024 starcraft. The fact it will have new campaigns and coop missions will attract casual players more than SC2 currently will at least. Hopefully it makes full use of the fact it has an active dev team (as opposed to BW/SC2/WC3 which will basically never change) and work with the community to improve things | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27230 Posts
On June 21 2024 00:27 Fango wrote: The biggest thing for Stormgate is that it's trying to advance the tech, global matchmaking with rollback, a live replay/observer system, advanced stats etc. Will it be bigger than starcraft at it's peak? Probably not. But it could be bigger than 2024 starcraft. The fact it will have new campaigns and coop missions will attract casual players more than SC2 currently will at least. Hopefully it makes full use of the fact it has an active dev team (as opposed to BW/SC2/WC3 which will basically never change) and work with the community to improve things It’s going to have a lot of things that WoL lacked at launch too. Plus not cost retail price to enter. I think people oft forget unless prompted to get that ‘oh yeah now you mention it…’ that WoL at launch was pretty ropey in many aspects. I’d assume a big chunk of SC2’s player base in terms of 1v1 competitive folks entered in WoL and stuck around even if intermittently dipping in and out, and then a decent influx in Legacy when it went F2P, plus folks getting pulled in by co-op there. We’ve got a reasonably active, tight-knit community that we’ve cultivated over the years here and chatting to folks over our last event at the weekend I was pondering how we got started, and how we’re gonna transition outside of being an SC community into a more general RTS one. A reasonably high proportion of folks are in that 4/5 years+ younger range than blokes like myself who started things rolling, and hadn’t played much, if any RTS prior. And of that cohort it’s a relatively even split between big Blizzard fans who were drawn in by a new Blizzard game in this new genre they hadn’t much experience in, and those who didn’t. Indeed it’s been that long that many just can’t remember why they decided to give StarCraft a shot It feels a lot is in its favour in terms of easing a new audience in, but there’s still a ton of uncertainty over whether that audience is actually reached and convinced to give it that first crack. Obviously whether the actual game is that good is a big one too! Do a bunch of new, reasonably ambitious RTS games raise interest and a new audience for the genre, or do they just fragment an existing playerbase across them? All sorts of unknowns But aye I don’t think it’ll be as big as SC2 once was, but perhaps entering some middle space between current AoE4 and SC2 is possible. I mean I think it’s oft-neglected but peak SC2 paved a lot of the way for the very eSports games that took a lot of its potential player base and audience. You probably don’t see League or DotA as we know it without SC2 doing what it did, but those very games I think realistically make it impossible for any RTS to quite be as big as SC2 was early doors | ||
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PurE)Rabbit-SF
United States695 Posts
It really just catered to a lot more people who are not used to controlling a big army and having to do multitasking base management. | ||
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CicadaSC
United States1972 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33665 Posts
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CicadaSC
United States1972 Posts
On June 27 2024 09:08 Waxangel wrote: hero reveal at Gamescom https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA0CggtDHu4 My favorite hero reveal yet, not a co-op player but I'll try this out. | ||
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MegaBuster
167 Posts
- heroes and villains fighting alongside one another - factions fighting against themself with either no explanation or the contrivance of evil-er sub-factions - characters now present at battles they never were at before - dead characters being alive - endless repetition of individual story segments which gives that theme park-y WoW raid feel And they now have to deal with all of this stuff out of the gate since immediately you will be playing co-op mode with a team made out of the heroine of the game and the main villain of the game — WARZ. Even if they eventually Kerrigan-ize every villain and have them leading a plucky breakaway faction vs. the main demons, or if all the factions must unite versus the Xel'Naga/Precursor, those revelations would be YEARS of campaign releases away. (and many Warzchests of crowdfunding needed) Ultimately SC2 style co-op is about creative re-use of the surplus of pieces from a finished game but it sure does stress the most unfulfilling narrative parts of its game — no-stakes, confusing, chaotic. For SC2 the mode was offered to the fans after the campaign has concluded so it has the feel of a bonus. Kind of like some other game traditions such as a boss rush mode or a zany New Game+. Stormcrepe is leading with this kind of dissonance and I am beginning to feel buyer's remorse on my omega premium $500 early access founder's edition with a candy cane scythe skin for Warz. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27230 Posts
On June 27 2024 09:48 MegaBuster wrote: Dumbest thing they did is building the game from the ground up for co-op RTS and not designing it around avoiding the horrible narrative problems present in the SC2 co-op, stuff like: - heroes and villains fighting alongside one another - factions fighting against themself with either no explanation or the contrivance of evil-er sub-factions - characters now present at battles they never were at before - dead characters being alive - endless repetition of individual story segments which gives that theme park-y WoW raid feel And they now have to deal with all of this stuff out of the gate since immediately you will be playing co-op mode with a team made out of the heroine of the game and the main villain of the game — WARZ. Even if they eventually Kerrigan-ize every villain and have them leading a plucky breakaway faction vs. the main demons, or if all the factions must unite versus the Xel'Naga/Precursor, those revelations would be YEARS of campaign releases away. (and many Warzchests of crowdfunding needed) Ultimately SC2 style co-op is about creative re-use of the surplus of pieces from a finished game but it sure does stress the most unfulfilling narrative parts of its game — no-stakes, confusing, chaotic. For SC2 the mode was offered to the fans after the campaign has concluded so it has the feel of a bonus. Kind of like some other game traditions such as a boss rush mode or a zany New Game+. Stormcrepe is leading with this kind of dissonance and I am beginning to feel buyer's remorse on my omega premium $500 early access founder's edition with a candy cane scythe skin for Warz. It’s a complete non-issue compared to street signs being a fictional runic script | ||
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MegaBuster
167 Posts
Anyways lets play the new co-op mode in this WW2 RTS, you be Hitler, I'll be FDR and we will fight against the horde of nazis using the nazis and the allies together, okay? | ||
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Turbovolver
Australia2435 Posts
On June 27 2024 09:48 MegaBuster wrote: Dumbest thing they did is building the game from the ground up for co-op RTS and not designing it around avoiding the horrible narrative problems present in the SC2 co-op, stuff like: - heroes and villains fighting alongside one another - factions fighting against themself with either no explanation or the contrivance of evil-er sub-factions - characters now present at battles they never were at before - dead characters being alive - endless repetition of individual story segments which gives that theme park-y WoW raid feel And they now have to deal with all of this stuff out of the gate since immediately you will be playing co-op mode with a team made out of the heroine of the game and the main villain of the game — WARZ. Even if they eventually Kerrigan-ize every villain and have them leading a plucky breakaway faction vs. the main demons, or if all the factions must unite versus the Xel'Naga/Precursor, those revelations would be YEARS of campaign releases away. (and many Warzchests of crowdfunding needed) Ultimately SC2 style co-op is about creative re-use of the surplus of pieces from a finished game but it sure does stress the most unfulfilling narrative parts of its game — no-stakes, confusing, chaotic. For SC2 the mode was offered to the fans after the campaign has concluded so it has the feel of a bonus. Kind of like some other game traditions such as a boss rush mode or a zany New Game+. Stormcrepe is leading with this kind of dissonance and I am beginning to feel buyer's remorse on my omega premium $500 early access founder's edition with a candy cane scythe skin for Warz. League of Legends started out with that, going with some contrived setup where all the characters may have their own backstories and the like, but are just being summoned into battle for the sake of sport at the whims of the players. ...then they changed all that when they realised that contriving some setup just to acknowledge the "game" part is worse than just creating a compelling world/lore and having the game take place within it, enemies on the same side or not. This really doesn't seem like a major issue at all. Like what, should they make Co-op "Zombies mode" and all the characters from the story must now do battle against some new underdeveloped horde that is so destructive and evil that they must ally up against them? Just so co-op doesn't touch upon a slightest hint of ludonarrative dissonance? Nahhhh. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17708 Posts
On June 21 2024 03:00 WombaT wrote: It’s going to have a lot of things that WoL lacked at launch too. Plus not cost retail price to enter. I think people oft forget unless prompted to get that ‘oh yeah now you mention it…’ that WoL at launch was pretty ropey in many aspects. nah, WoL was spectacular. It was far better than any full priced RTS game that came out from 2008 to 2012. Hell, even the box was 100X better than any other RTS. | ||
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MegaBuster
167 Posts
If they were building the game from the ground up with the understanding that co-op is the most popular, breakthrough feature then they should have prioritized making the fantasy of playing that mode coherent and exciting, instead its the industrial runoff from building campaign, co-op, and competitive at the same time. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27230 Posts
On June 27 2024 13:30 JimmyJRaynor wrote: nah, WoL was spectacular. It was far better than any full priced RTS game that came out from 2008 to 2012. Hell, even the box was 100X better than any other RTS. Both things can be true. Bnet 2.0 was fucking balls at launch, little features we’re so used to we’ve forgotten they weren’t always part of SC2. On the flipside well, it’s a fucking great game so those didn’t really matter at the end of the day. Whereas Stormgate to me looks like it’ll be decent, but not quite having that special sauce, still some ot the QoL things carried over, things like co-op and being F2P in certain modes are nice to have | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7326 Posts
On June 27 2024 09:48 MegaBuster wrote: Dumbest thing they did is building the game from the ground up for co-op RTS and not designing it around avoiding the horrible narrative problems present in the SC2 co-op, stuff like: - heroes and villains fighting alongside one another - factions fighting against themself with either no explanation or the contrivance of evil-er sub-factions - characters now present at battles they never were at before - dead characters being alive - endless repetition of individual story segments which gives that theme park-y WoW raid feel And they now have to deal with all of this stuff out of the gate since immediately you will be playing co-op mode with a team made out of the heroine of the game and the main villain of the game — WARZ. Even if they eventually Kerrigan-ize every villain and have them leading a plucky breakaway faction vs. the main demons, or if all the factions must unite versus the Xel'Naga/Precursor, those revelations would be YEARS of campaign releases away. (and many Warzchests of crowdfunding needed) Ultimately SC2 style co-op is about creative re-use of the surplus of pieces from a finished game but it sure does stress the most unfulfilling narrative parts of its game — no-stakes, confusing, chaotic. For SC2 the mode was offered to the fans after the campaign has concluded so it has the feel of a bonus. Kind of like some other game traditions such as a boss rush mode or a zany New Game+. Stormcrepe is leading with this kind of dissonance and I am beginning to feel buyer's remorse on my omega premium $500 early access founder's edition with a candy cane scythe skin for Warz. I love the banter that Blizz characters to at the start of every Heroes of the Storm game. Like Diablo telling Deckard he will crush him then proceed by sucking up every health potion Deckard dishes out tol stay alive. Also wtf are you even arguing about? Aren't you tired already? Why don't you make your own game if you know everything better anyway? | ||
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MegaBuster
167 Posts
A campaign works based on reveals and novelty and learning things, so imagine playing the WC3 campaign after you played with Archimonde in a co-op mode for 2 years where he made wingdinger quips (Gosh Tyrande — who'd have thunk we'd be fighting together!). It would spoil the effect of the character in the story. Beyond that the game relies on a tension about the campaign story continuing to be told in order to keep people around and this cheapening of the characters could puncture that. Its the opposite of how things worked in SC2, where the ironic setting of co-op is situated well after the narrative use of any characters, so its pretty valid and interesting to think on the difference if you can drum up some mental energy. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7326 Posts
And how come I can save my game and continue the next day? Wouldn't time move on? How does that work? That is not very realistic at all! And when I die I can just load up the ol savegame and continue from there, coming back from heaven or what? TL,DR: There is a story/ campaign mode and there are other game modes/ games where story doesn't matter. Get over it | ||
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