|
On May 14 2024 00:01 Mutaller wrote:
Honestly if the mechanics are simplified it makes faster players faster and just lowers the skill floor, it's fine. I wish the discussion was over what will the maps look like, unit design, and lethality. Personally my biggest gripe about these starcraft inspired RTS games are that they adopt the SC2 map meta of only 2 player maps which is incredibly stale. I hope for a starcraft inspired RTS to be capable of having 4 player maps again. SC2 maps are the most boring thing around, and they have to be injected with a gimmick to make them somewhat exciting.
Team games too, sc2 2v2 and 3v3 are beyond boring
|
On May 14 2024 00:01 Mutaller wrote:
Honestly if the mechanics are simplified it makes faster players faster and just raises the skill floor, it's fine. I wish the discussion was over what will the maps look like, unit design, and lethality. Personally my biggest gripe about these starcraft inspired RTS games are that they adopt the SC2 map meta of only 2 player maps which is incredibly stale. I hope for a starcraft inspired RTS to be capable of having 4 player maps again. SC2 maps are the most boring thing around, and they have to be injected with a gimmick to make them somewhat exciting.
How about a system that lets you decide where to start? Like before the game you can choose a starting position? If the ressource management is different to SC2, you wouldn't need those fixed spots at all
|
On May 14 2024 16:28 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2024 00:01 Mutaller wrote:
Honestly if the mechanics are simplified it makes faster players faster and just raises the skill floor, it's fine. I wish the discussion was over what will the maps look like, unit design, and lethality. Personally my biggest gripe about these starcraft inspired RTS games are that they adopt the SC2 map meta of only 2 player maps which is incredibly stale. I hope for a starcraft inspired RTS to be capable of having 4 player maps again. SC2 maps are the most boring thing around, and they have to be injected with a gimmick to make them somewhat exciting. How about a system that lets you decide where to start? Like before the game you can choose a starting position? If the ressource management is different to SC2, you wouldn't need those fixed spots at all
That feels like a balance nightmare, and liable to either make the map pool much more constrained or the games coinflippy as hell.
|
On May 14 2024 16:28 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2024 00:01 Mutaller wrote:
Honestly if the mechanics are simplified it makes faster players faster and just raises the skill floor, it's fine. I wish the discussion was over what will the maps look like, unit design, and lethality. Personally my biggest gripe about these starcraft inspired RTS games are that they adopt the SC2 map meta of only 2 player maps which is incredibly stale. I hope for a starcraft inspired RTS to be capable of having 4 player maps again. SC2 maps are the most boring thing around, and they have to be injected with a gimmick to make them somewhat exciting. How about a system that lets you decide where to start? Like before the game you can choose a starting position? If the ressource management is different to SC2, you wouldn't need those fixed spots at all
I mean a map where where you spawn is random, but there's a chance you scout a spawn and your opponent is not there. In SC2 3 player and 4 player maps result in a snow ball effect where the player benefitting from the asymmetry, by scouting opponent first, likely wins. Most other RTS games have a healthy amount of asymmetry, but SC2 does not, and I fear StormGate will not either. The lack of diverse maps takes away from an entire dimension of the RTS genre. I fear that there is more energy and effort in creating an esport, and standardizing maps from the start than to let maps evolve organically.
|
Northern Ireland27477 Posts
On May 15 2024 01:38 Mutaller wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2024 16:28 Harris1st wrote:On May 14 2024 00:01 Mutaller wrote:
Honestly if the mechanics are simplified it makes faster players faster and just raises the skill floor, it's fine. I wish the discussion was over what will the maps look like, unit design, and lethality. Personally my biggest gripe about these starcraft inspired RTS games are that they adopt the SC2 map meta of only 2 player maps which is incredibly stale. I hope for a starcraft inspired RTS to be capable of having 4 player maps again. SC2 maps are the most boring thing around, and they have to be injected with a gimmick to make them somewhat exciting. How about a system that lets you decide where to start? Like before the game you can choose a starting position? If the ressource management is different to SC2, you wouldn't need those fixed spots at all I mean a map where where you spawn is random, but there's a chance you scout a spawn and your opponent is not there. In SC2 3 player and 4 player maps result in a snow ball effect where the player benefitting from the asymmetry, by scouting opponent first, likely wins. Most other RTS games have a healthy amount of asymmetry, but SC2 does not, and I fear StormGate will not either. The lack of diverse maps takes away from an entire dimension of the RTS genre. I fear that there is more energy and effort in creating an esport, and standardizing maps from the start than to let maps evolve organically.
Aside from other factors, this is partly due to SC2 being very asymmetric in terms of its factions. So add map asymmetry to the equation and it gets that bit harder to maintain the fairness/fun factor as one is making it more varied. This is exacerbated even further the more players and combinations you add, which is a large part of why team games have never really caught the collective imagination.
In a sense SC2’s maps have evolved pretty organically really. It’s just unfortunate that how the game has developed when players got their hands on it has somewhat constricted variety.
I do feel shooting for an eSports-first design can constrain variety and interesting experimentation for sure. But on the flip side it’s hard to discard completely if one’s developing a competitive-focused game.
A game like Brood War was able to organically develop into what it became but with that development are plenty of lessons to learn subsequently. We’ve now got decades across multiple games, some quite different of what serious full-time players can and will do to break various games to take into account.
It’s quite a tricky balancing act, one wants variety and games looking different in a ladder session, and enabling interesting emergent scenarios and creativity. But too unpredictable and volatile can be frustrating, or take away from that feeling of gradually mastering something that I think many enjoy about RTS
Remains very much to be seen if Frost Giant or others can navigate these various pitfalls successfully
|
On May 15 2024 01:38 Mutaller wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2024 16:28 Harris1st wrote:On May 14 2024 00:01 Mutaller wrote:
Honestly if the mechanics are simplified it makes faster players faster and just raises the skill floor, it's fine. I wish the discussion was over what will the maps look like, unit design, and lethality. Personally my biggest gripe about these starcraft inspired RTS games are that they adopt the SC2 map meta of only 2 player maps which is incredibly stale. I hope for a starcraft inspired RTS to be capable of having 4 player maps again. SC2 maps are the most boring thing around, and they have to be injected with a gimmick to make them somewhat exciting. How about a system that lets you decide where to start? Like before the game you can choose a starting position? If the ressource management is different to SC2, you wouldn't need those fixed spots at all I mean a map where where you spawn is random, but there's a chance you scout a spawn and your opponent is not there. In SC2 3 player and 4 player maps result in a snow ball effect where the player benefitting from the asymmetry, by scouting opponent first, likely wins. Most other RTS games have a healthy amount of asymmetry, but SC2 does not, and I fear StormGate will not either. The lack of diverse maps takes away from an entire dimension of the RTS genre. I fear that there is more energy and effort in creating an esport, and standardizing maps from the start than to let maps evolve organically.
On May 14 2024 21:36 Ciaus237 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2024 16:28 Harris1st wrote:On May 14 2024 00:01 Mutaller wrote:
Honestly if the mechanics are simplified it makes faster players faster and just raises the skill floor, it's fine. I wish the discussion was over what will the maps look like, unit design, and lethality. Personally my biggest gripe about these starcraft inspired RTS games are that they adopt the SC2 map meta of only 2 player maps which is incredibly stale. I hope for a starcraft inspired RTS to be capable of having 4 player maps again. SC2 maps are the most boring thing around, and they have to be injected with a gimmick to make them somewhat exciting. How about a system that lets you decide where to start? Like before the game you can choose a starting position? If the ressource management is different to SC2, you wouldn't need those fixed spots at all That feels like a balance nightmare, and liable to either make the map pool much more constrained or the games coinflippy as hell.
I meant it more so that all players state before the match where they will begin. Example:
Player A picks map, player B picks first spawn and for game two the other way around. So you see where the other play will start.
Sooner rather than later every map will have its meta spawn points and counter spawn points obviously. Would bring another flavor to the game though.
You could pick a offense spawn point and expo then behind further away from enemy for example. Rush distances would wildy vary. Guess some sort of defense mechanism would have to be build in the first buildings.
Anyway just some spitballing going on
|
|
|
Mod Edit: Quote Snip
Not my cup of tea and IMO extremely niche in a genre that is already niche
|
HW is a great series however I d say it s extremely difficult and a bit of a mess too. HW3 seems to be departing from the previous 2 and according to the people/posts I follow on this, not in a great way. The game doesnt even look completely finished either.
So like Harris1st is saying it s the nichest of niche.The 3D element essentially makes it another genre (or subgenre if you will) and on top of that soem choices for HW3 seem poorly received. Now I havent tried myself so this is second hand account but the community being so small and having already so many negative opinions is a bit disappointing for the game
|
On May 15 2024 23:03 WGT-Baal wrote:
HW is a great series however I d say it s extremely difficult and a bit of a mess too. HW3 seems to be departing from the previous 2 and according to the people/posts I follow on this, not in a great way. The game doesnt even look completely finished either.
So like Harris1st is saying it s the nichest of niche.The 3D element essentially makes it another genre (or subgenre if you will) and on top of that soem choices for HW3 seem poorly received. Now I havent tried myself so this is second hand account but the community being so small and having already so many negative opinions is a bit disappointing for the game
I played it during Next Fest and it felt finished polished. Maybe some polish needed in the controls and HUD as I had my difficulties with those. I don't think the game is for everyone, certainly not for me, but I do think it's a good game.
|
On May 15 2024 23:33 Miragee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2024 23:03 WGT-Baal wrote:
HW is a great series however I d say it s extremely difficult and a bit of a mess too. HW3 seems to be departing from the previous 2 and according to the people/posts I follow on this, not in a great way. The game doesnt even look completely finished either.
So like Harris1st is saying it s the nichest of niche.The 3D element essentially makes it another genre (or subgenre if you will) and on top of that soem choices for HW3 seem poorly received. Now I havent tried myself so this is second hand account but the community being so small and having already so many negative opinions is a bit disappointing for the game I played it during Next Fest and it felt finished polished. Maybe some polish needed in the controls and HUD as I had my difficulties with those. I don't think the game is for everyone, certainly not for me, but I do think it's a good game.
Afaik the camera settings and the lack of submodules and customization on ships is what most hw2 players are complaining about in hw3 and the campaign having no specific story too. So those 3 points probably led to calling it unfinished. From the videos it did look visually nice and gameplay looked smooth (aside from the camera options that is)
|
On May 16 2024 01:52 WGT-Baal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2024 23:33 Miragee wrote:On May 15 2024 23:03 WGT-Baal wrote:
HW is a great series however I d say it s extremely difficult and a bit of a mess too. HW3 seems to be departing from the previous 2 and according to the people/posts I follow on this, not in a great way. The game doesnt even look completely finished either.
So like Harris1st is saying it s the nichest of niche.The 3D element essentially makes it another genre (or subgenre if you will) and on top of that soem choices for HW3 seem poorly received. Now I havent tried myself so this is second hand account but the community being so small and having already so many negative opinions is a bit disappointing for the game I played it during Next Fest and it felt finished polished. Maybe some polish needed in the controls and HUD as I had my difficulties with those. I don't think the game is for everyone, certainly not for me, but I do think it's a good game. Afaik the camera settings and the lack of submodules and customization on ships is what most hw2 players are complaining about in hw3 and the campaign having no specific story too. So those 3 points probably led to calling it unfinished. From the videos it did look visually nice and gameplay looked smooth (aside from the camera options that is)
Ah yeah, that makes sense. I haven't played any of the previous titles so I didn't know those things were missing/changed.
|
|
|
Nice, gonna be the first thing I check out when I wake up tomorrow, hopefully it can somewhat live up to expectations 
|
Where and when is it going to be streamed exactly? The schedule for the Summer Games Fest is super vague...
|
Type Summer Game Fest in youtube or twitch and you should be to find a stream. It starts in like 15 minutes.
|
United States33712 Posts
|
I really did not like that presentation, tbh.
|
Battle Aces looks cool.
this looks interesting....
Automated resource gathering, preset expansions and instant unit spawning allows you to focus on the action-packed battles against your opponent. Incredible leaps in UI enable strategic choices in timing, as you determine what to do when you know your opponent is upgrading their tech or expanding with additional resource bases. This UI is complemented with seamless control of vast large-scale armies, with just two global menus, making the game easy to learn, difficult to master – with infinite replayability!
|
I had the stream on for an hour or more, thinking when is the game going to be announced... trailer starts for "Lightspeed Studios" and I mute it while I finally start googling. Look back and it's the game... lol.
Looks good - going through their website now: www.playbattleaces.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
