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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On December 14 2007 09:11 thedeadhaji wrote: *takes another step back* MvC2 is Haji's kryptonite xD. Let's try an experiment: marvel capcom cable sentinel storm magneto captain-commando cyclops magburrito capitalist-communist assist DHC. *watches Haji's HP plummet* And now the finishing blow: words from the producer of Street Fighter 4 himself: Having worked on Capcom Fighting Evolution ... *Haji falls over* K.O. | ||
Chill
Calgary26001 Posts
Right now I use a 360 pad, so I really don't have any experience or preference with sticks. I just want something durable and reliable so I'm not handicapping myself because the joystick is low quality. I'll use this on my computer mostly (USB), but if it comes with adapters to PS2/DC (if that's even possible) that would be a bonus since that's what my friends play on. If it's compatible with 360, which I don't think any sticks are yet, that would be just super. In the end if I need to buy a separate one later for 360, that would be fine. Cost is not an issue, but obviously I don't want to waste money. Any suggestions from the gurus? | ||
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~Legit~
United States408 Posts
There's a couple of different ways to get one. You can go to estarland.com and get the mas stick there and it's only 89.00 but you won't have the option of the p360(joystick). So my suggestion would be go to massystems.com and take a look around there. In the end i'd suggest a standard size stick...you want to add the p360 for like 44 bucks. I play with convex buttons(flat buttons) but you might just want standard push buttons(they curve inward). Since u'll be using it for the 360 and computer i'd get the 8 button layout. If money is no option there are a couple of other nice add-ons you could get. Quick disconnect buttons decrease input lag. And you might want to look into a total control plus adapter as they are usually the best on the market. Anything else you run the risk of it shorting on you in about 2 months. Oh and one more thing I know you're wondering WTF the p360 is. Well it has to do with how the stick recognizes your movement of the joystick. A normal joystick, like the one at your local arcade uses leaf-springs to recognize the joystick movement. The way these silly things work, they eventually get molded one way or the other and there end up being dead spots in the joystick, or it'll start sticking. The p360 is a digital device that recognizes all the movements of the joystick with lasers. the joystick sits in the center and only comes in contact with what's called the restricter plate. So you never have to worry about your joystick not being "true." I just realized I didn't tell you why you don't want a horri fighting stick or it's Japanese counterpart. It's a really loose stick that barely falls into neutral, and might not fall back into neutral after long periods of time. So to someone whose not used to a joystick this might feel basically like ur trying to use the joystick from the n64 after it's been used for 5 years, only bigger. Me personally I like a horri or a jap stick for games like tekken and super turbo where im not having to go neutral quite as much. Technique is a big part of it though once you get your stick. Most people will generally sit on the floor and play with it betwene there legs either sitting cross legged with it in front of them. Or like me with your legs just stretched out and the stick in front of you in between. But i've seen everything at tournaments. People sitting them on chairs, or in their laps in a chair. People will even bring in steel contraptions that act like a cabinet. A lot of it will be testing and personal preference. This is why I think you just get a mas stick. It's used across the boards for all games and is a great stick that will last you a long time. And if you decide you want something else later on down the line, it takes about 5 minutes to sell a mas stick on SRK | ||
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Chill
Calgary26001 Posts
Regarding convex versus concave buttons, why do you prefer convex? I realize it's player preference, but I'm just curious as to the reasoning behind it. The only advantage to convex that I can really think of is that you could maybe mash them easier for stun recovery, but I don't even know if that's true. | ||
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~Legit~
United States408 Posts
On December 15 2007 02:41 Chill wrote: Thanks a lot dude. This is the kind of stuff I need - someone pointing me in the right direction so I can go and read up about it. Regarding convex versus concave buttons, why do you prefer convex? I realize it's player preference, but I'm just curious as to the reasoning behind it. The only advantage to convex that I can really think of is that you could maybe mash them easier for stun recovery, but I don't even know if that's true. Yea for mashing and all that but in my case it's also for pianoing. I can piano a lot easier with convex then I can concave. ((In case you don't know what that means. In SF the game actually recognizes two inputs, one when you press the button and one when it's released. So when you throw a hadoken you piano your fingers across the buttons so that it has 6 chances to come out as opposed to 2)). All that and also i've found on gamnes where i have to use 2 punches a lot to dash or something else like MVC2 even with my nails cut all the way, i'll still end up splitting them. | ||
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Chill
Calgary26001 Posts
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~Legit~
United States408 Posts
On December 15 2007 02:58 Chill wrote: Hmm I know what piano keys are but I've never thought about pianoing myself, because I've never been able to do it, because I've never had a stick! I can barely EX on this pad because I have to use my thumb across jab/strong and index on fierce. They come out like 50% of the time -_-, so I just learned to play without EXs. Eh me and the other guys all have funny techniques for pad play~~ Mike can ROM on a fucking eggshell man~~ seriously he could play with celery for a stick and grapes for buttons~~ | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
On December 15 2007 02:58 Chill wrote: Hmm I know what piano keys are but I've never thought about pianoing myself, because I've never been able to do it, because I've never had a stick! I can barely EX on this pad because I have to use my thumb across jab/strong and index on fierce. They come out like 50% of the time -_-, so I just learned to play without EXs. Lately I've been using the Dpad on my controller and the numpad on my keyboard for 6 buttons. Try it out | ||
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On December 15 2007 02:06 Chill wrote: Hey, I'm looking to get a stick. I've read all the relevant of pages on SRK, but they don't really present all the facts very eloquently to people who are new. Right now I use a 360 pad, so I really don't have any experience or preference with sticks. I just want something durable and reliable so I'm not handicapping myself because the joystick is low quality. I'll use this on my computer mostly (USB), but if it comes with adapters to PS2/DC (if that's even possible) that would be a bonus since that's what my friends play on. If it's compatible with 360, which I don't think any sticks are yet, that would be just super. In the end if I need to buy a separate one later for 360, that would be fine. Cost is not an issue, but obviously I don't want to waste money. Any suggestions from the gurus? I think the joystick you should get is mainly personal-experience-dependent. In my case, I learned how to play 3s on a Japanese cabinet, so that style of joystick is what I'm best at overall. Nevertheless, there are some significant differences between Japanese sticks (e.g. made by Sanwa and Seimitsu) and American bats (e.g. made by Happ). The three main differences are: 1. The way you hold the stick. I don't think this affects my gameplay much. 2. The default restrictor shape: Japanese sticks move in a square by default, whereas American sticks move in a circle (I think?) by default. This does affect my gameplay. 3. The strength of the springs: American bats tend to have stronger springs than Japanese sticks. In my opinion, this is by far the most significant difference between the two designs. For reference, I have the most experience playing on Japanese cabinets, playing with my new HRAP2 (comes with a Sanwa-brand stick, same as a Japanese cabinet), and playing with my friend's American-style joystick, the SFAE arcade stick. Square restrictor vs circular restrictor (IMO, of course): I have never, ever "thought-I-was-blocking-low-but-actually-wasn't" on a Japanese stick. In contrast, I frequently (once every few games) end up doing this with American bats. I believe the restrictor shape is to blame for this. Furthermore, I find it a lot easier to do QCFx2 supers on the left side of the screen using an American bat, even though I have 10x more experience with Japanese sticks. Again, I attribute this to the restrictor shape. Spring strengths: Personally, I strongly dislike the stronger springs on American bats. Two reasons: 1. You have to HOLD them when you parry, and guide the stick to neutral MANUALLY. On a Japanese stick, you just gently tap it sideways to parry, then let it go and it returns to neutral. But American sticks have strong-ass springs in them. If you let go of an American stick after inputting a parry, it WON'T return to netural: it will rapidly jitter back and forth, making you block or dash forward instead of parrying. So you have to move the bat forward and then guide it back to neutral so that it doesn't fly all over the place. I find this makes parrying more difficult. 2. I have trouble dashing on an American bat. On a Japanese stick, you dash by tapping the stick forward/backward twice. On an American bat, again, you cannot ever let go of the bat or it will swing back and forth. So I have to quickly move it forward and then back to neutral, twice. By the way, with regards to Japanese sticks wearing out faster: I've never experienced this personally, but I do know that the stick in a HRAP2 can be replaced without too much trouble once it breaks, and I think they cost ~$40 each? | ||
thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
As for factors going into deciding, Legit and Bill have done an excellent job so I really can't add much more  Oh, fyi HRAP's are fucking heavyyyyyy and huuuuuge if that matters to you. | ||
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~Legit~
United States408 Posts
On December 15 2007 04:59 Bill307 wrote: I think the joystick you should get is mainly personal-experience-dependent. In my case, I learned how to play 3s on a Japanese cabinet, so that style of joystick is what I'm best at overall. Nevertheless, there are some significant differences between Japanese sticks (e.g. made by Sanwa and Seimitsu) and American bats (e.g. made by Happ). The three main differences are: 1. The way you hold the stick. I don't think this affects my gameplay much. 2. The default restrictor shape: Japanese sticks move in a square by default, whereas American sticks move in a circle (I think?) by default. This does affect my gameplay. 3. The strength of the springs: American bats tend to have stronger springs than Japanese sticks. In my opinion, this is by far the most significant difference between the two designs. For reference, I have the most experience playing on Japanese cabinets, playing with my new HRAP2 (comes with a Sanwa-brand stick, same as a Japanese cabinet), and playing with my friend's American-style joystick, the SFAE arcade stick. Square restrictor vs circular restrictor (IMO, of course): I have never, ever "thought-I-was-blocking-low-but-actually-wasn't" on a Japanese stick. In contrast, I frequently (once every few games) end up doing this with American bats. I believe the restrictor shape is to blame for this. Furthermore, I find it a lot easier to do QCFx2 supers on the left side of the screen using an American bat, even though I have 10x more experience with Japanese sticks. Again, I attribute this to the restrictor shape. Spring strengths: Personally, I strongly dislike the stronger springs on American bats. Two reasons: 1. You have to HOLD them when you parry, and guide the stick to neutral MANUALLY. On a Japanese stick, you just gently tap it sideways to parry, then let it go and it returns to neutral. But American sticks have strong-ass springs in them. If you let go of an American stick after inputting a parry, it WON'T return to netural: it will rapidly jitter back and forth, making you block or dash forward instead of parrying. So you have to move the bat forward and then guide it back to neutral so that it doesn't fly all over the place. I find this makes parrying more difficult. 2. I have trouble dashing on an American bat. On a Japanese stick, you dash by tapping the stick forward/backward twice. On an American bat, again, you cannot ever let go of the bat or it will swing back and forth. So I have to quickly move it forward and then back to neutral, twice. By the way, with regards to Japanese sticks wearing out faster: I've never experienced this personally, but I do know that the stick in a HRAP2 can be replaced without too much trouble once it breaks, and I think they cost ~$40 each? As always, good info from bill. Another side note might be that, anyone, with practice, can DP like john choi on the bat. Whereas if you can't master the flick, you'll have trouble DP'ing on command on a sanwa | ||
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Chill
Calgary26001 Posts
http://hardware.teamxbox.com/reviews/xbox-360/73/EX2-Fighting-Stick/p2/ -I think I would prefer a bat to a lollipop, but because I suck at this point, I can adapt to either. It's probably better getting used to Japanese style (lollipop). -It's cheap. Before I figure out what I like exactly, it would be good to not blow the bank. If I want a new stick later I would just go custom. -Square restrictor. I never knew there was a difference, but there you go. -Convex, offset buttons. If that's what all the cool kids are doing, then I want it too! -Works on PC/360. Those are the only two consoles I use right now so that's great, plus I'll be ready for the Hyper Fighting remake and SF4 releases. -It looks pretty small, probably doesn't weight that much. That's a negative I guess. -Apparently it makes a clicking noise when you move it everywhere, which sounds highly unappealing. Since I'll be playing my friends with this, it seems kind of dumb that he can tell when I'm charging or supering or whatnot just by the clicking noise. -No microswitches. I take it that means the buttons lose their 'snap' after awhile? Or they react slower than normal? That sucks... =\ I guess there's not going to be one 'ultimate' stick that fits my needs without going custom. That sucks :} | ||
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~Legit~
United States408 Posts
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
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maleorderbride
United States2916 Posts
We have a 22" widescreen with a fullsize arcade joystick+buttons. The unit is an X-arcade 2 player setup, but the original joysticks were replaced with better ones. It is all bolted down to a desk that is pretty much the identical height of an arcade machine (its about 1/2in off). Stools to sit on that are matching height. We have a PS2 and a MAME machine hooked up to it. | ||
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Chill
Calgary26001 Posts
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
 and even if there was one sometimes the button mapping is messed up... etc | ||
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On December 15 2007 05:24 Chill wrote: Bill / Legit, what do you think of this: http://hardware.teamxbox.com/reviews/xbox-360/73/EX2-Fighting-Stick/p2/ Hmmm... I don't want to say anything, because that joystick reminds me of the one my friend Yang plays with. Maybe it's just the fact that his stick is really worn-out (I know the buttons are pretty unresponsive at times), but I absolutely cannot play with it. But I don't want to say "no" because it might actually be a decent stick, for all I know. By the way, based on what I read on SRK, only the unbranded HRAP and HRAP2 versions (and the CFJ/CFE version, iirc) seem to be made for easy modding and replacement of individual parts. In particular, the buttons are soldered onto the circuit board in the branded HRAP versions, but in the unbranded and CFJ ones, the buttons use "quick-disconnects" so it should be relatively easy to pop them out and replace them once they start dying. SRK also has details for how to replace the joysticks on the HRAP1/2, iirc. | ||
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~Legit~
United States408 Posts
On December 15 2007 09:04 Bill307 wrote: Hmmm... I don't want to say anything, because that joystick reminds me of the one my friend Yang plays with. Maybe it's just the fact that his stick is really worn-out (I know the buttons are pretty unresponsive at times), but I absolutely cannot play with it. But I don't want to say "no" because it might actually be a decent stick, for all I know. By the way, based on what I read on SRK, only the unbranded HRAP and HRAP2 versions (and the CFJ/CFE version, iirc) seem to be made for easy modding and replacement of individual parts. In particular, the buttons are soldered onto the circuit board in the branded HRAP versions, but in the unbranded and CFJ ones, the buttons use "quick-disconnects" so it should be relatively easy to pop them out and replace them once they start dying. SRK also has details for how to replace the joysticks on the HRAP1/2, iirc. Lol you prolly felt like you couldn't play with it for the same reason I do. Well it's not the same stick but pretty much. Mike used this japanese ascii dc stick for the longest time and I just could not use it. Was just so lightweight I couldnt DP without throwing the whole contraption forward. Yet mike will tick throw with thawk like it's nothing on it~~ | ||
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On December 15 2007 13:58 ~Legit~ wrote: Lol you prolly felt like you couldn't play with it for the same reason I do. Well it's not the same stick but pretty much. Mike used this japanese ascii dc stick for the longest time and I just could not use it. Was just so lightweight I couldnt DP without throwing the whole contraption forward. Yet mike will tick throw with thawk like it's nothing on it~~ I'm not sure what happened. I know it felt firmly-in-place on my friend's table. Maybe I was moving it around while I was playing without noticing. But I think the most likely explanation is that his stick is near-death =P. That, and I can't do a quick QCFx2 on any Japanese stick on the left side of the screen. Sadly, since I got my HRAP2, my success rate with the SA2 in Makoto's karakusa -> fierce xx SA2 on the left side of the screen is about 10%  (for comparison, it's about 95% on the right side). | ||
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