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Is it really true that CS GO is mostly talent? - Page 2

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Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20285 Posts
June 20 2017 17:29 GMT
#21
There is supposed to be a very large difference in reaction speed to auditory or visual stimulus. Something like 50-100ms I think.


Yeah, audio is a lot faster than visual (maybe 50ms, haven't seen research in a while)

http://cognitivefun.net/test/16
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
beg
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
991 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-20 21:57:47
June 20 2017 21:57 GMT
#22
When I started playing CS (back in 2000), I was a real scrub. I was really really bad, for really really long.

Played 6 years of CS and became kinda good, high amateur level, but quit playing.

Many years laters, CSGO got released and I started playing again. My skills still carried me to global elite easily!



So, no. It's not talent. But to become a real pro... I don't know. Maybe it can be done. I just never was that good. Global elite is possible though!
Laserist
Profile Joined September 2011
Turkey4269 Posts
June 21 2017 08:27 GMT
#23
Considering a good portion of the top pros are seasoned veterans, I'd say more practice than talent. Maybe talent gives you an edge but I wouldn't define reaction speed as talent. I'd rather consider a good hand-eye coordination as talent. Rest are muscle memory and experience.
“Are you with the Cartel? Because you’re definitely an Angel.”
Faruko
Profile Joined April 2013
Chile34171 Posts
June 21 2017 14:39 GMT
#24
I mean, talent is always needed to achieve the top top.

but what is talent without propper hard work ? talent wont give you all those small details like map awareness for example.

Michael Phelps trains twice a day every day bar sunday, Bolt goes to the gym 2 times a day for 90 minutes workout and thats without the normal run in the morning, again six days a week
Ross was right // "Jesus Christ nahaz is doing shots before my eyes" (Sn0_Man, 2018)
paxconsciente
Profile Joined January 2015
Belgium91 Posts
June 22 2017 04:00 GMT
#25
On June 20 2017 02:41 ldv wrote:
as with all things, talent is a baseless myth, and deliberate, high efficiency, professional practice is the right way to improve at anything.



Talent isn't a myth but otherwise yea, you're right
The best way to predict the future is to create it - Peter Drucker. <3 so0,ret,JD,Happy,Innovation,Snute
FFGenerations
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
7088 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-23 13:29:03
June 23 2017 13:24 GMT
#26
it depends how you measure success

one of the world's best supports in dota will say that although he's not very good at microing his hero, he's still just damn good at strategising and managing his team

or, by contrast, one of the world's best cores will just blow your mind when you realise just how much mental focus and precision he has at controlling his hero

personally i think 'talent' is very relevant. the chance of someone who is not particularly talented at something becoming very good at that thing over the space of 5, 10 or 20 years is going to be many-fold smaller than that of a person who is naturally good at things.

yes, you can easily say it's possible for someone who is not talented to compete on the level of someone who is, and it's very easy to say 'they only have a 5 year head start', but how many people go on to be successful at something that they are on average 5 years worse than other people at doing at baseline?

i ate an entire milkybar whilst writing this, that's how many people
Cool BW Music Vid - youtube.com/watch?v=W54nlqJ-Nx8 ~~~~~ ᕤ OYSTERS ᕤ CLAMS ᕤ AND ᕤ CUCKOLDS ᕤ ~~~~~~ ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ PUNCH HIM ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ
-Switch-
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada506 Posts
June 26 2017 21:56 GMT
#27
You need some amount of talent to be good at any game tbh.
Essbee
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada2371 Posts
June 28 2017 11:23 GMT
#28
I wanna see koreans get good at quake, that would be awesome
Kadungon
Profile Joined June 2017
41 Posts
June 30 2017 01:36 GMT
#29
There are people that play a certain game for many many hours, and they aren't good. Not only that, their progress often has been completely stagnant.


Yet some other people can come from seemingly nothing, and beat people with much more practice and experience.

There are small children that somehow understand how to play chess decently, and they easily beat their peers or weak players. And they may also progress quickly. Other people have to struggle hard, read books, study games, do tactical exercises to get some improvement.

https://sportsscientists.com/2012/03/10000-hours-vs-training-debate/
KrOjah
Profile Joined March 2017
United Kingdom68 Posts
July 08 2017 19:46 GMT
#30
It isn't as mechanical challenging as say Quake, so there is room to go away and study and improve in other ways, but for me I always felt like like people either can get into FPS pretty naturally or they plateau very quickly with minimal improvement there on. I am definitely in the latter. I always felt like Mobas and RTS allow more room for players to improve. Just my opinion and experiences though.
BaronSamedi
Profile Joined June 2020
United States3 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-06-22 18:36:36
June 12 2020 10:13 GMT
#31
--- Nuked ---
alpenrahm
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany628 Posts
June 12 2020 16:08 GMT
#32
Afaik you can train your reflexes to some extend but you won´t be able to rival a trained 15 year old in reflexes alone. Fortunately CSGO has a lot of other aspects that you can become good at that don´t require you to be in your teens.
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11505 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-06-13 12:36:44
June 13 2020 12:36 GMT
#33
There are a lot of different words being used here which don't all mean the same thing.

Skill
Talent
Reflexes

Are all completely different things. Skill is the most obvious and also the least interesting. Skill just means "How good you are at the game". And as a tautology, if you have more skill (are better at the game) you are better at the game (win more). What exactly skill entails is usually very hard to describe exactly beyond "Whatever allows you to win more" Decisionmaking can be in there, and fast correct reactions to stuff. In a game like CS, Aim is probably also involved in skill. And coordinating with your team. In some games, like for example soloqueue in any multiplayer team game, skill can sometimes mostly consist of doing stuff that stops your team from turning toxic, and be mostly unrelated to the game itself. Skill is hard to pin down, and it is not defined where it comes from either.

Talent on the other hand is some innate ability that some people have and others don't, which is especially not something that can be trained. While training can increase your performance, and thus your skill, it can by definition not increase your "talent". Once again it might be hard to clearly figure out what that talent exactly is.

Reflexes on the other hand are usually a subset of skill, and often partially based in talent and partially based in training. Reflexes involve two parts. How quick you react to stimuli, and how correct that response is. Both of those can be just some innate ability which you have, but they can also be trained. More experience can lead to your brain reading a situation quicker and more correctly, leading to a quicker and more correct reaction to it.

The main discussion here is about whether in CS-GO, your skill consists mostly of talent, or mostly of training. Or, to put it another way, what is more important? Your innate baseline abilities which you somehow have due to genetics or upbringing or whatever, or the concentrated training efforts you put into the game. Obviously both are relevant in some way, and most people would probably prefer it if training was the more important part. Because this leads to a much more satisfying narrative.

If training is the most important thing, the people at the top are there because they worked harder and more efficiently than the others, and anyone has a chance to get there.

If talent is more important, then the people at the top are there because they won the genetic lottery.

As a comparison from another sport, in basketball your success is highly dependent on how large you are. Training is obviously necessary, but if you are 1.70m high, no matter how much you train, you will never be a top basketball player. On the other hand, if you are larger than 7 feet in the US, you have a high chance of playing in the NBA. So basketball is a sport which is based in talent (being very large) rather than training.
willdiam
Profile Joined September 2021
1 Post
September 22 2021 21:22 GMT
#34
--- Nuked ---
alexstrem
Profile Joined September 2021
Canada1 Post
September 22 2021 21:25 GMT
#35
--- Nuked ---
xsnac
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Barbados1365 Posts
September 25 2021 17:04 GMT
#36
nah, I dont understand tallent and I believe there is no such thing. given a sample of players sure some will improve faster in the first 100 hours than others. but given a sample where everyone played 10.000 hours, they will all be quite the same.
1/4 \pi \epsilon_0
Maddysonn
Profile Joined January 2021
Australia2 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-03-30 09:01:40
March 23 2022 20:02 GMT
#37
Ammm... of course not. Honestly to say that in order to play a game you have to be talented is quite dumb. I mean, who on earth was born to play games? Gaming requires zero talent. It requires effort, time and money and also tactic like trade csgo skins As long as you are willing to invest into this game than you're good to go. Plus, I believe the word you meant to use is "reflexes". Yeah well there're some people who were born with better reflexes. Therefore they may play games beter. However, you do understand that skills are one thing that can be developed by time ,right?
zev318
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada4306 Posts
March 23 2022 21:50 GMT
#38
On September 26 2021 02:04 xsnac wrote:
nah, I dont understand tallent and I believe there is no such thing. given a sample of players sure some will improve faster in the first 100 hours than others. but given a sample where everyone played 10.000 hours, they will all be quite the same.


i would say that if you took a random off the street and gave them a game to play for 10,000 hours, the chances that they become as good as a pro is slim.
ZoeHansen
Profile Joined March 2022
United States5 Posts
March 24 2022 19:45 GMT
#39
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