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Active: 832 users

Is it really true that CS GO is mostly talent?

Forum Index > General Games
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1 2 Next All
Shinokuki
Profile Joined July 2013
United States859 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-18 06:35:42
June 18 2017 06:33 GMT
#1
I'm korean and I frequently hear that CS GO mostly requires a special talent to get really good (GE) in many of the korean forums. From your experience, is this really true?
Life is just life
waffelz
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
Germany711 Posts
June 18 2017 08:59 GMT
#2
No, that is just some excuse from people who can't make it. It sounds harsh, but that’s how it is. Like in most cases, talent doesn’t do much besides giving you a headstart or makes it easier for you to improve, but in the end it comes down to training. When you come to the absolute top (pro level. GE is not even that insane) talent probably becomes a factor again but just getting GE comes down to training and appropriate hardware and settings. You don’t even need a dedicated team, even though it makes it easier, as long as everyone progresses in skill over time.

Source: I am GE, until I was GE I had to play with randoms for the most part. And I am still pretty bad compared to my times in 1.6 / other players when it comes to nades etc. I got into GE almost purely through my aim which you can learn and train for sure. I would admit that I got some sort of talent/skill that transferred over from 1.6 but once again, that only made me start above the average, I still had to learn the game, movement, spraypatterns etc.
RIP "The big travis CS degree thread", taken from us too soon | Honourable forum princess, defended by Rebs-approved white knights
JWD[9]
Profile Blog Joined November 2015
364 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-18 09:41:51
June 18 2017 09:39 GMT
#3
https://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime

Over the years I picked up some techniques, where to aim while walking was one of the things that improved my play tenfold. I have a friend that likes CS:GO, but loses interrest fast, since he gets banned rather quickly. He is an X-men and you won't find his score on the website I posted, because it is around 90ms, which is something olympian athletes don't reach nor need, but going up against him on a pistol map makes me stop play CS:GO, there is no point. It is like diving against someone who can breath underwater. I can reach 200ms reaction time on my best day.
I could totally imagine that there is a barrier you won't cross on the highest level of play, maybe there is some meditation, focus technique that can shorten your reaction time, maybe that is wishful thinking. I agree with the koreans.

Then again, there is more than one area to be great at as waffelz hinted at, perfect grenades, takes practice and creativity. Being a good team mate, map knowledge, listening to footsteps, staying calm under pressure (tournemant scenario). Since it isn't a 1v1 game, there is room, even at the top for people that aren't freaks of nature. I think this is even reflected in most tournemant stats, if you look at the kill death distribution for both teams, even in pro teams one person often outclasses their teammates.

Edit: Oh, GE is reachable with enough dedication. Special talent does play a role if you want to be the best there ever was, which is logically and makes what i posted redundant, sorry xD
Epoxide
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Magic Woods9326 Posts
June 18 2017 13:49 GMT
#4
You don't need some special talent to reach Global Elite. I did it, I mean come on.
LiquipediaSouma: EU MM is just Russian Roulette. Literally.
Ragnarork
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
France9034 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-19 09:36:53
June 18 2017 14:13 GMT
#5
I would say that CS:GO is probably among the best titles out there that let you have many many many many many MANY tools to improve, either a specific part of your skillset (aim servers, kz servers, 1on1, deathmatch, ulletical's aim botz and recoil control maps, prefire maps, etc.) or more broadly.

So I'd say this is actually the complete opposite. While talent will give that extra bit that makes you go higher faster, CS:GO is a game that can really be grinded to improve and where hard works can truly pay off with a little bit of planning and thinking.
LiquipediaWanderer
waffelz
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
Germany711 Posts
June 18 2017 17:46 GMT
#6
On June 18 2017 18:39 JWD[9] wrote:
https://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime

Over the years I picked up some techniques, where to aim while walking was one of the things that improved my play tenfold. I have a friend that likes CS:GO, but loses interrest fast, since he gets banned rather quickly. He is an X-men and you won't find his score on the website I posted, because it is around 90ms, which is something olympian athletes don't reach nor need, but going up against him on a pistol map makes me stop play CS:GO, there is no point. It is like diving against someone who can breath underwater. I can reach 200ms reaction time on my best day.
I could totally imagine that there is a barrier you won't cross on the highest level of play, maybe there is some meditation, focus technique that can shorten your reaction time, maybe that is wishful thinking. I agree with the koreans.

Then again, there is more than one area to be great at as waffelz hinted at, perfect grenades, takes practice and creativity. Being a good team mate, map knowledge, listening to footsteps, staying calm under pressure (tournemant scenario). Since it isn't a 1v1 game, there is room, even at the top for people that aren't freaks of nature. I think this is even reflected in most tournemant stats, if you look at the kill death distribution for both teams, even in pro teams one person often outclasses their teammates.

Edit: Oh, GE is reachable with enough dedication. Special talent does play a role if you want to be the best there ever was, which is logically and makes what i posted redundant, sorry xD


Holy fuck, I am getting 147-153ms on average if I’m warmed up, pumped and only accidently get into 100ms territory. Controlled 90ms sounds fucking scary. But your post still is valuable to this thread because it is a good example.
Let’s look at the rare case of a guy with such insane reflexes, how does it actually benefit him? With reflexes alone he can react faster to what he sees, so the most obvious thing is he can hold angles more effectively. This doesn’t do anything though if he doesn’t know where to place his crosshair, if the crosshair placement is off and he misses the head and furthermore fails the spray he most likely dies anyways while only have traded equally (which is not ideal but acceptable as T, and bad as CT). Crosshair placement is one of the skills you have to learn, just like controlling your spray when not wielding a 1 Tap – Dirt nap weapon.
Let’s assume he doesn’t hold a corner, but spots someone outside of his crosshair, if he lacks the required hand eye coordination, he still can’t get the kill. Another skill that you need to learn.
Not to mention that sick reflexes alone got hard countered by flash/smokes/ nades that force him out of position, rushing close positions, ADAD prefire peaking or simply not going to that bombsite.

So having such low reaction time will give him great advantages for sure, but it doesn’t do much on its own. Can it be enough for GE? Not alone, but with such a gift and the required spray control and coordination propably, but that can be said for less inhumane reaction times as well. As I said, I myself got into GE just by pure fragging power and besides calls and some strategy I where a horrible teammate because I could only do a very limited set of support nades on 3 maps. As others hinted, there are so much more qualities, especially team related ones. Nades are extremely important as a team skill, calling out properly, covering each other, rotating and all of those are learned. Also crosshair placement alone probably carries you into badge territory and spray control will do till LEM, even if it is just above average.
RIP "The big travis CS degree thread", taken from us too soon | Honourable forum princess, defended by Rebs-approved white knights
Luolis
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Finland7104 Posts
June 18 2017 19:07 GMT
#7
Not to mention that reflexes arent the only thing that matters in csgo. For example im pretty bad at reflexes/aim but i can somewhat compensate that with game knowledge/smart plays. Obviously good aim/reflexes are super good and help alot but you can compensate in pther areas if those arent that good
pro cheese woman / Its never Sunny in Finland. Perkele / FinnishStarcraftTrivia
paxconsciente
Profile Joined January 2015
Belgium91 Posts
June 18 2017 20:50 GMT
#8
hahaha, what? this is coming from people who have mastered the art of starcraft where after a decade of playing i still have no fucking idea of how to get reasonably good at the game

no, what it requires is good team play and coordination to get really good and you can't just get good by grinding out 12 hours a day on matchmaking, you need to focus on deliberate practice and get a team.
The best way to predict the future is to create it - Peter Drucker. <3 so0,ret,JD,Happy,Innovation,Snute
Ragnarork
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
France9034 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-19 09:41:50
June 19 2017 09:38 GMT
#9
On June 19 2017 05:50 paxconsciente wrote:
no, what it requires is good team play and coordination to get really good and you can't just get good by grinding out 12 hours a day on matchmaking, you need to focus on deliberate practice and get a team.


OP was talking about getting to GE, which doesn't require that at all though. (and can be done by grinding MM a lot)
LiquipediaWanderer
mki
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Poland882 Posts
June 19 2017 16:50 GMT
#10
CS:GO is by far mostly hard work.
Head of New Business at Team Kinguin :: https://www.teamkinguin.com
ldv
Profile Blog Joined April 2017
United States103 Posts
June 19 2017 17:41 GMT
#11
as with all things, talent is a baseless myth, and deliberate, high efficiency, professional practice is the right way to improve at anything.
N-KO
Profile Joined April 2017
25 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-19 22:58:09
June 19 2017 22:55 GMT
#12
I have about 1500 hours in CSGO, and I went from Silver 2 to GE. At around 600-700 hours is when I really started understanding the game, I spent a lot of that time in DM and aim maps, and matchmaking, and the rest of the hours are idle. I think I have 800 hours of legitimate matchmaking 5v5, the 800/1500 clocked hours. I did however enjoy DM a lot.

I think personally there isn't a single game that takes "talent" I reached high ranks in SCII CSGO and other stupid games that aren't esports, and a lot of people tell me it's about talent but really you just gotta put the hours in and be smart about them.

Don't play at 4am and grind match making when you're half asleep, you may play for hours and hours but that's not efficient practice. That sort of thing.

Another thing about CSGO is reaction time, and people say that it cannot be improved, however I did practice it with websites and lots of DM, and my reaction time went from 260ms to 170ms, so bullshit confirmed, and also another thing about reaction time is to aim at headshot level at a close distance from where people would come from, instead of aiming at a wider angle and reacting by flicking and shooting, and instead just reacting by clicking. These sorts of tricks make insane shots easier to make.
Keyboard Warrior
Profile Joined December 2011
United States1178 Posts
June 20 2017 09:27 GMT
#13
On June 18 2017 22:49 Epoxide wrote:
You don't need some special talent to reach Global Elite. I did it, I mean come on.

Lol yeah. But like any game practice gets you the level of talent you need to be competitive
Not your regular Keyboard Warrior ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20285 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-20 14:18:24
June 20 2017 14:16 GMT
#14
Holy fuck, I am getting 147-153ms on average if I’m warmed up, pumped and only accidently get into 100ms territory. Controlled 90ms sounds fucking scary.


And also literally inhuman

These kinds of tests have an extra delay built-in because of the time that the computer and monitor take to display the test and consistent human visual reaction speeds in the realm of ~70ms are unheard of AFAIK, double that is already extremely fast.
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
waffelz
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
Germany711 Posts
June 20 2017 15:24 GMT
#15
On June 20 2017 23:16 Cyro wrote:
Show nested quote +
Holy fuck, I am getting 147-153ms on average if I’m warmed up, pumped and only accidently get into 100ms territory. Controlled 90ms sounds fucking scary.


And also literally inhuman

These kinds of tests have an extra delay built-in because of the time that the computer and monitor take to display the test and consistent human visual reaction speeds in the realm of ~70ms are unheard of AFAIK, double that is already extremely fast.


Well there are runners that get close to 100ms, even though the 'average' top-athlete stays around 120-160ms, his friend is probably between 100 and 120 and the <90ms come from impressiveness of the test since that seems a reasonable margin of error.
RIP "The big travis CS degree thread", taken from us too soon | Honourable forum princess, defended by Rebs-approved white knights
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20285 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-20 15:34:51
June 20 2017 15:33 GMT
#16
On June 21 2017 00:24 waffelz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 20 2017 23:16 Cyro wrote:
Holy fuck, I am getting 147-153ms on average if I’m warmed up, pumped and only accidently get into 100ms territory. Controlled 90ms sounds fucking scary.


And also literally inhuman

These kinds of tests have an extra delay built-in because of the time that the computer and monitor take to display the test and consistent human visual reaction speeds in the realm of ~70ms are unheard of AFAIK, double that is already extremely fast.


Well there are runners that get close to 100ms, even though the 'average' top-athlete stays around 120-160ms, his friend is probably between 100 and 120 and the <90ms come from impressiveness of the test since that seems a reasonable margin of error.


90ms after the added delay from the system and monitor which is around 20ms even on an optimized setup? That'd be ~70ms IRL.
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
waffelz
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
Germany711 Posts
June 20 2017 15:49 GMT
#17
On June 21 2017 00:33 Cyro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 21 2017 00:24 waffelz wrote:
On June 20 2017 23:16 Cyro wrote:
Holy fuck, I am getting 147-153ms on average if I’m warmed up, pumped and only accidently get into 100ms territory. Controlled 90ms sounds fucking scary.


And also literally inhuman

These kinds of tests have an extra delay built-in because of the time that the computer and monitor take to display the test and consistent human visual reaction speeds in the realm of ~70ms are unheard of AFAIK, double that is already extremely fast.


Well there are runners that get close to 100ms, even though the 'average' top-athlete stays around 120-160ms, his friend is probably between 100 and 120 and the <90ms come from impressiveness of the test since that seems a reasonable margin of error.


90ms after the added delay from the system and monitor which is around 20ms even on an optimized setup? That'd be ~70ms IRL.


No I mean I believe the system would rather substract the delay from the monitor etc to display your actual value. Not that hes even faster^^
RIP "The big travis CS degree thread", taken from us too soon | Honourable forum princess, defended by Rebs-approved white knights
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20285 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-20 16:03:59
June 20 2017 16:03 GMT
#18
It doesn't, that delay is added to the score. It's not really possible to make a webpage-based test without that delay and it's tricky to account for it as it's different for every system and monitor so most tests (including this one, explained somewhat on the page) don't try to account for it at all and just deal with everyone getting higher numbers than they would with a more accurate test
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
waffelz
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
Germany711 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-20 16:15:25
June 20 2017 16:11 GMT
#19
Should have scrolled down, you are right.

So JWD[9] seems like your friend is either exaggerating a bit or he gets banned for a reason
RIP "The big travis CS degree thread", taken from us too soon | Honourable forum princess, defended by Rebs-approved white knights
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
June 20 2017 16:13 GMT
#20
There is supposed to be a very large difference in reaction speed to auditory or visual stimulus. Something like 50-100ms I think. It is assumed that runners cannot react faster than 100ms to a gun firing. So it seems that your friend is truly superhuman. Either that or valve keeps banning him for a reason.
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