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On August 28 2017 00:31 deffscream wrote:
it was QC's 1st championship and they also took note from every pro player feedback there, which is enough for some very drastic balance gameplay changes over the next weeks, like Sorlag and Anarki's total abuse in both sacrifice and Duel matches.
I sincerely hope that whatever they do to Anarki they don't nerf him too hard for casual play because for me CPMA-style movement is the best I've ever felt. Sorlag does seem too strong though.
On August 28 2017 00:31 deffscream wrote:
also the game itself feels more random, compared to VQ3 and QL, Clawz took advantage of this and won, while everyone played safe, he played like Fatal1ty and Evil, which took everyone by surprise.
Fully agreed. Its novelty and constant patching doesn't help, but I think fundamentally the way the duel system works right now promotes and amplifies this randomness, as opposed to all previous iterations of Quake.
On August 28 2017 00:31 deffscream wrote:
Also, Tim Stated on the Q&A that if the community wants it, they will change the Duel system Based on the feedback and analysis, Classic Duel with no Abilities is still a thing for them.
Always an option, and possibly still the ideal one, but I'd still rather they tried to fix the new one or come up with some kind of middle ground solution if feasible.
On August 28 2017 00:31 deffscream wrote:
CTF mode will come out later this year along with the new champion, They also stated that if the community wants it, Sacrifice will be replaced with CTF for the next tournaments, As for the champions, Bones/Quake1 Death knight may be the next one, since his Ability is already on the PAK files(it will be the Wall of hellfire that DK's use on Quake 1), if not, its Athena/Major or Keel.
Awesome. I've never liked Sacrifice, not in theory nor in practice, not to play (from what little I tried) nor to watch. It's one of those stupidly convoluted, overdesigned ideas where they're too afraid to just port something tried and true that works and end up way overshooting into a territory that no one asked for, kind of like some of Blizz's decisions with SC2 vs BW. Can't wait for proper CTF.
Thanks for the information man.
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On August 27 2017 23:11 207aicila wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2017 22:13 Foxxan wrote:On August 27 2017 21:56 207aicila wrote:
So everyone (understandably) predicted that this dubious "3 lives per round max, unless sudden death" system would lead to a lot of scared defensive play and... then Clawz comes in and takes the tourney with reckless hyperaggressive play. Funny how that goes.
His play kind of reminded me of when evil rose to the top in QL and neither cYpher nor cooller knew how to deal with his ridiculous fight sense. Hard to say if people will have the time to figure him out before a new patch completely changes balance/meta/etc.
I was extremely happy to see Vo0 in the finals even if he couldn't bring it home. I hope he keeps competing and doing well, always been one of my top top favourites. Havent watched much quake 3 live, but from the little i have seen i see like no difference in terms of how the people play the game. In my eyes, its the same passive+poke heavy game just like in quake 3. Quake in nature is like this so unless the gameplay changes, it will stay like this. Well... you can stop at "haven't watched much quake live" because the rest is just a reaffirmation of that. Don't take this as an insult btw. Yes, Quake Live was slower than other games in the series, in part because of its VQ3 movement which is intrisincally slower and less versatile, and in part because the competitive scene happened to favour mostly the same rotation of old, technical maps (like T7, Q3DM13 and ZTN3DM1 ). But because it had a traditional Quake duel mode of 10 minute limit and you can die as much as you have to as long as you have the most frags at the end, comebacks were far more likely to happen, and happen in a way that was satisfying to watch, as opposed to QC's more coinflippy comeback mechanics like "can he get the dire orb telefrag or not". Choosing to play passive and defensive in QL was a stylistic preference from players who felt like they could outsmart you, it was not a necessity as it is seen in QC. If you want to see high level fast paced QL gameplay, look for VODs of evil vs cYpher or evil vs cooller or really evil vs anyone in 2013-2014. The guy came back to the scene seemingly out of nowhere and played this ludicrous fast and loose style where he would simply bully seemingly superior players into submission, taking fights that no one else would consider and overpowering with sheer combat prowess. Watch any pro level match on hub/Aerowalk, almost any pro level match on Toxicity, almost any pro level match on Hectic. Watch this MLG match between Av3k and toxjq on ZTN where toxjq, arguably the most legendary aimer in Quake, was down 7 frags with a few minutes left and came back to win it. This simply isn't possible in a game where you only have 3 lives per round.
As someone who vaguely understands dueling basics, it felt like some maps dragged on pretty heavily on QL pro matches I saw. Lost World for example felt like something where game would go on at 0-0 for 10 minutes or someone got an early 1-0 and held it to the end. In general it was pretty hard to feel too excited about where one player being in control for 9 or 10 minutes. In that sense I appreciate the idea that games at least end in players engaging each other and fragging rather than maintaining strong control and running down the clock.
That being said, I'm not sure at all if the 3 life limit is the thing either. I don't think I've seen that many duels with cpma movement, so maybe that allows enough trickery to make things exciting more consistently.
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On August 29 2017 02:23 Bacillus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2017 23:11 207aicila wrote:On August 27 2017 22:13 Foxxan wrote:On August 27 2017 21:56 207aicila wrote:
So everyone (understandably) predicted that this dubious "3 lives per round max, unless sudden death" system would lead to a lot of scared defensive play and... then Clawz comes in and takes the tourney with reckless hyperaggressive play. Funny how that goes.
His play kind of reminded me of when evil rose to the top in QL and neither cYpher nor cooller knew how to deal with his ridiculous fight sense. Hard to say if people will have the time to figure him out before a new patch completely changes balance/meta/etc.
I was extremely happy to see Vo0 in the finals even if he couldn't bring it home. I hope he keeps competing and doing well, always been one of my top top favourites. Havent watched much quake 3 live, but from the little i have seen i see like no difference in terms of how the people play the game. In my eyes, its the same passive+poke heavy game just like in quake 3. Quake in nature is like this so unless the gameplay changes, it will stay like this. Well... you can stop at "haven't watched much quake live" because the rest is just a reaffirmation of that. Don't take this as an insult btw. Yes, Quake Live was slower than other games in the series, in part because of its VQ3 movement which is intrisincally slower and less versatile, and in part because the competitive scene happened to favour mostly the same rotation of old, technical maps (like T7, Q3DM13 and ZTN3DM1 ). But because it had a traditional Quake duel mode of 10 minute limit and you can die as much as you have to as long as you have the most frags at the end, comebacks were far more likely to happen, and happen in a way that was satisfying to watch, as opposed to QC's more coinflippy comeback mechanics like "can he get the dire orb telefrag or not". Choosing to play passive and defensive in QL was a stylistic preference from players who felt like they could outsmart you, it was not a necessity as it is seen in QC. If you want to see high level fast paced QL gameplay, look for VODs of evil vs cYpher or evil vs cooller or really evil vs anyone in 2013-2014. The guy came back to the scene seemingly out of nowhere and played this ludicrous fast and loose style where he would simply bully seemingly superior players into submission, taking fights that no one else would consider and overpowering with sheer combat prowess. Watch any pro level match on hub/Aerowalk, almost any pro level match on Toxicity, almost any pro level match on Hectic. Watch this MLG match between Av3k and toxjq on ZTN where toxjq, arguably the most legendary aimer in Quake, was down 7 frags with a few minutes left and came back to win it. This simply isn't possible in a game where you only have 3 lives per round. As someone who vaguely understands dueling basics, it felt like some maps dragged on pretty heavily on QL pro matches I saw. Lost World for example felt like something where game would go on at 0-0 for 10 minutes or someone got an early 1-0 and held it to the end. In general it was pretty hard to feel too excited about where one player being in control for 9 or 10 minutes. In that sense I appreciate the idea that games at least end in players engaging each other and fragging rather than maintaining strong control and running down the clock. That being said, I'm not sure at all if the 3 life limit is the thing either. I don't think I've seen that many duels with cpma movement, so maybe that allows enough trickery to make things exciting more consistently.
Yep and I addressed this. Watch matches played on Aerowalk, Toxicity, Hectic, T4 / Vertical Vengeance (a rare map granted) and it's like a completely different game.
You can definitely dictate the flow of the game through map design, and the QL pro scene had a relatively balanced map pool in that regard, but of course the more strategic players (like cooller, rapha, etc.) would veto the fast and loose maps because it allowed aim-heavy opponents more potential for comeback.
The comparison is not the best, because you are making an analogy between a fundamental design decision of QC's new duel mode, which is the limited lives system, and only a small part of the competitive gameplay of QL.
I also don't know how much QC you guys have watched, but I've seen plenty of high level matches that were nothing but "Nyx runs away from Nyx for 8 minutes, eventually someone dies in Sudden Death".
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On August 29 2017 02:32 207aicila wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2017 02:23 Bacillus wrote:On August 27 2017 23:11 207aicila wrote:On August 27 2017 22:13 Foxxan wrote:On August 27 2017 21:56 207aicila wrote:
So everyone (understandably) predicted that this dubious "3 lives per round max, unless sudden death" system would lead to a lot of scared defensive play and... then Clawz comes in and takes the tourney with reckless hyperaggressive play. Funny how that goes.
His play kind of reminded me of when evil rose to the top in QL and neither cYpher nor cooller knew how to deal with his ridiculous fight sense. Hard to say if people will have the time to figure him out before a new patch completely changes balance/meta/etc.
I was extremely happy to see Vo0 in the finals even if he couldn't bring it home. I hope he keeps competing and doing well, always been one of my top top favourites. Havent watched much quake 3 live, but from the little i have seen i see like no difference in terms of how the people play the game. In my eyes, its the same passive+poke heavy game just like in quake 3. Quake in nature is like this so unless the gameplay changes, it will stay like this. Well... you can stop at "haven't watched much quake live" because the rest is just a reaffirmation of that. Don't take this as an insult btw. Yes, Quake Live was slower than other games in the series, in part because of its VQ3 movement which is intrisincally slower and less versatile, and in part because the competitive scene happened to favour mostly the same rotation of old, technical maps (like T7, Q3DM13 and ZTN3DM1 ). But because it had a traditional Quake duel mode of 10 minute limit and you can die as much as you have to as long as you have the most frags at the end, comebacks were far more likely to happen, and happen in a way that was satisfying to watch, as opposed to QC's more coinflippy comeback mechanics like "can he get the dire orb telefrag or not". Choosing to play passive and defensive in QL was a stylistic preference from players who felt like they could outsmart you, it was not a necessity as it is seen in QC. If you want to see high level fast paced QL gameplay, look for VODs of evil vs cYpher or evil vs cooller or really evil vs anyone in 2013-2014. The guy came back to the scene seemingly out of nowhere and played this ludicrous fast and loose style where he would simply bully seemingly superior players into submission, taking fights that no one else would consider and overpowering with sheer combat prowess. Watch any pro level match on hub/Aerowalk, almost any pro level match on Toxicity, almost any pro level match on Hectic. Watch this MLG match between Av3k and toxjq on ZTN where toxjq, arguably the most legendary aimer in Quake, was down 7 frags with a few minutes left and came back to win it. This simply isn't possible in a game where you only have 3 lives per round. As someone who vaguely understands dueling basics, it felt like some maps dragged on pretty heavily on QL pro matches I saw. Lost World for example felt like something where game would go on at 0-0 for 10 minutes or someone got an early 1-0 and held it to the end. In general it was pretty hard to feel too excited about where one player being in control for 9 or 10 minutes. In that sense I appreciate the idea that games at least end in players engaging each other and fragging rather than maintaining strong control and running down the clock. That being said, I'm not sure at all if the 3 life limit is the thing either. I don't think I've seen that many duels with cpma movement, so maybe that allows enough trickery to make things exciting more consistently. Yep and I addressed this. Watch matches played on Aerowalk, Toxicity, Hectic, T4 / Vertical Vengeance (a rare map granted) and it's like a completely different game.
To be frank, I don't think you can cherry pick maps as a spectator all the time. For example a tournament final series that starts with Lost World is going to chew down the excitement for anyone who isn't well versed in finer aspects of map control.
For the rest of it, I don't think I can or want to argue much. I'm more trying to describe how it feels for a viewer who is curious and willing to learn Quake more, but is still finding it difficult to enjoy at times.
EDIT: And for the clarity, I don't even want to argue that maps like Lost World should be removed. I'm more saying they are tricky to appreciate for some audiences and Quake probably could be a better spectator game if it figured out ways around the most passive moments. Whether that removes something too essential to the gameplay is another thing which I don't have the knowledge to argue.
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The game is currently 25% off on steam, I highly recommend the game!
Many of the bugs fixed since closed beta. Netcode is fine, and ranked just got introduced.
Even as somebody who did not loads of quake, this game is fun!
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Damn no one thought to bump this while it was free on Steam? D:
Anyway I finally got in on this thing and it's honestly pretty fun for casual play... Duel is a different matter entirely, but just queuing into casual TDM or FFA is about as good as I was hoping.
Does anyone know if you can still get champions from lootboxes?
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On July 13 2018 16:03 207aicila wrote:
Damn no one thought to bump this while it was free on Steam? D:
Anyway I finally got in on this thing and it's honestly pretty fun for casual play... Duel is a different matter entirely, but just queuing into casual TDM or FFA is about as good as I was hoping.
Does anyone know if you can still get champions from lootboxes?
Yeah got into it as well now, same as you say though it's only really fun for casual tdm play. The duel system is so bad i have no idea what they were thinking, there is no flow to it 
Even with champions being a thing you could have done it differently, pretty disappointed.
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Thanks for the post Derity, I watched some Cooller lately and also yesterday and wondered where to find coverage. Surprised Cooller is that high up, guess he practised a lot of Quake lately considering he played mostly Apex Legends this year from what I've seen. But I assume since it's another shooter and Cooller has played Quake since basically forever, he doesn't need much to get back in shape.
clutch sudden death move by Cooller lol.
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Northern Ireland25339 Posts
Really need to upgrade my rig to get playing this.
Probably pretty casually in TDM and whatnot, didn’t play enough UT and Quake in me youth to get decent at 1v1 and time becomes rather limited when you get older!
How is the player base these days? I followed streams and reactions to things for quite a while, but the game never really seemed to take off in the way myself as an arena shooter fan was really hoping.
Combined with UT being cancelled I was a bit salty that it seems old-school styles of FPS have been left in the dust popularity wise by more modern trappings that I dislike
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On July 30 2019 00:52 Wombat_NI wrote:
Really need to upgrade my rig to get playing this.
Probably pretty casually in TDM and whatnot, didn’t play enough UT and Quake in me youth to get decent at 1v1 and time becomes rather limited when you get older!
How is the player base these days? I followed streams and reactions to things for quite a while, but the game never really seemed to take off in the way myself as an arena shooter fan was really hoping.
Combined with UT being cancelled I was a bit salty that it seems old-school styles of FPS have been left in the dust popularity wise by more modern trappings that I dislike
the game is mega-dead, usually around 500-600 concurrent players. bums me out since it's my introduction to AFPS, the 'quake' core is good but this game is super super rough around the edges. the netcode is passable when it works correctly (not often) and performance is super-inconsistent. and the client and matchmaking flow sucks compared to basically every other esports title. it's a shame becuase the game could be so good, but it never stops getting in the way of itself.
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Northern Ireland25339 Posts
On July 30 2019 12:19 tehh4ck3r wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2019 00:52 Wombat_NI wrote:
Really need to upgrade my rig to get playing this.
Probably pretty casually in TDM and whatnot, didn’t play enough UT and Quake in me youth to get decent at 1v1 and time becomes rather limited when you get older!
How is the player base these days? I followed streams and reactions to things for quite a while, but the game never really seemed to take off in the way myself as an arena shooter fan was really hoping.
Combined with UT being cancelled I was a bit salty that it seems old-school styles of FPS have been left in the dust popularity wise by more modern trappings that I dislike the game is mega-dead, usually around 500-600 concurrent players. bums me out since it's my introduction to AFPS, the 'quake' core is good but this game is super super rough around the edges. the netcode is passable when it works correctly (not often) and performance is super-inconsistent. and the client and matchmaking flow sucks compared to basically every other esports title. it's a shame becuase the game could be so good, but it never stops getting in the way of itself.
That is disappointing really, the genre really needs a standout successful game to reinvigorate, a bit like RTS these days. I thought Doom doing so well while being a bit more ‘old school’ would have sparked some appetite for more games in that direction, but it increasingly looks an outlier rather than a game that shifted industry norms.
I feel QC is in a weird niche where it needs to launch basically complete and not in some kind of early access form.
Quake or AFPS vets will stick around with bugs and issues as it’s their genre that they’re attached to, new players less so. And you need new players to give other new players folks to play with and have a player skill curve going.
It feels as a relative outsider QC made the same mistake quite a few others have made in recent years which is pushing eSports by design, rather than just making a great Quake game and eSports be the cherry on top.
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EPT
