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On March 08 2018 06:53 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2018 04:46 TMG26 wrote:On March 07 2018 03:10 Plansix wrote:
I play and love Monster Hunter World. Don't remind me that capcom choose this... the easiest and most bloated mess of MH to date... It is great because it’s a MH I want to play, unlike all the other ones. And it looks amazing.
What did World had that made you play it?
World does have some nice things, but it is covered in a mess of shit ones, and removed great things. And once again, in the same series, capcom is officialy stating that dificulty should be lowered when targetting the western audience. It's insulting.
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On March 08 2018 10:40 TheYango wrote:
Atrocious story aside, Conquest is still one of the best gameplay experiences that modern FE has to offer and is the culmination of post-Kaga Fire Emblem.
And if we're being honest, people put the GBA games on a pedestal since they were the first localized games, but in the context of the series as a whole, they're kind of a low point.
Well Lyn, Elwood and Hector was a cool triple.
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Code of Princess EX announced, summer 2018
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On March 08 2018 15:42 TMG26 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2018 06:53 Plansix wrote:On March 08 2018 04:46 TMG26 wrote:On March 07 2018 03:10 Plansix wrote:
I play and love Monster Hunter World. Don't remind me that capcom choose this... the easiest and most bloated mess of MH to date... It is great because it’s a MH I want to play, unlike all the other ones. And it looks amazing. What did World had that made you play it? World does have some nice things, but it is covered in a mess of shit ones, and removed great things. And once again, in the same series, capcom is officialy stating that dificulty should be lowered when targetting the western audience. It's insulting.
What are the shit ones you refer to? World added a few new things but I can't think of any that annoy me too much. The things that require upkeep like the Tailraiders and the Farm I just stopped bothering with a long time ago and only use when I need specific things. And the farm isn't even new lol. Same with bounties, I keep a stash of rewarding ones but only go out of my way to complete them if I really need the armor spheres, which is less and less as the game went on because you tend to find those few pieces you prefer and max them out.
The only major things that come to mind that they removed are Arts and Styles. A pretty huge removal, but understandable for streamlining imo (though having mostly played 3U, more than the 3DS games, I feel that impact less I guess). Especially for newer players. I think the countless quality of life changes alone make up for the loss of monsters/mechanics from the last couple titles.
I agree that the western defense thing is weird though.
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On March 08 2018 07:31 Plansix wrote:
If I remember correctly, Awakening is the one that double down on the horny by adding a bunch of relationship options? Because that is the feature that all my friends like in the game. The tactical dating sim.
Yup. And Fates doubled down on top of it.
I don't think they ever made Fire Emblem mainstream. They just managed to capture a huge chunk of the harem/shipping niche. And frankly, I think catering too much to that niche is what made JRPGs lose their post-FF7 mainstream appeal over the last two decades. There are other reasons, of course, but I think that's the biggest. Just look at the PS Vita's performance
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What "killed"* the JRPG scene were the Western RPGs (WRPG) finally getting stuff right, games like Knights of the Old Republic and World of Warcraf fill the void that JRPGs used to. At the end it's just a different culture and you can see many JRPG games starting to use more and more stuff from WRPG games in their own to catter for the western audiences
* = They are not dead, just not as big
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It's not clear to me what KotOR "got right" that Bioware wasn't already getting right with Baldur's Gate I/II on the Infinity Engine, but that's another discussion entirely.
As far as what both of you said, I think both of those are oversimplifications. On the one hand:
On March 09 2018 02:01 andrewlt wrote:
And frankly, I think catering too much to that niche is what made JRPGs lose their post-FF7 mainstream appeal over the last two decades.
This does not really accurately describe the JRPG genre. It describes a good number of them, but "harem/shipping niche" is not how I would describe a game like, say, SMT4 and that game is by no measure exceptionally popular.
On the other hand:
On March 09 2018 02:12 Faruko wrote:
What "killed"* the JRPG scene were the Western RPGs (WRPG) finally getting stuff right, games like Knights of the Old Republic and World of Warcraf fill the void that JRPGs used to.
This doesn't really explain things either because the western CRPG isn't a big genre either. "Traditional" western CRPGs in the vein of Baldur's Gate or more recent games like Divinity: Original Sin or Pillars of Eternity don't have wide audiences either. Western RPGs that do well do so by tapping into non-traditional RPG audiences (e.g. Mass Effect's shooter gameplay or World of Warcraft's Blizzard mythos). They don't take away from an audience that would have otherwise been interested in JRPGs because the west needed to inject gameplay from other genres to "sell" RPGs to people to begin with.
Though really if you want to look at the popularity of JRPGs in the West, there was only one JRPG developer that ever actually had any real mainstream popularity among Western audiences (Square)--most of the other developers of the SNES/PSX/PS2 era were riding on their coattails. Not to say they weren't making great games, but developers like Atlus weren't large enough to have the marketing budget to sell games to that level in the West. So when Square stopped making good games, the West stopped buying JRPGs. Even though Atlus has basically taken up Square's mantle as the premier JRPG developer since the PS2 era, they don't really have the visibility or mass marketing to sell games to that scale.
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KOTOR had the benefit of being a) Star Wars b) Bioware before it went to shit c) being set in a time period completely separated from the casual canon(read: movies), letting them play around with a lot of ideas.
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Pokemon Switch rumor is full reboot, 3D Kanto with 151 original pokemons + all the other pokemons after end game.
Might let you play Johto after that hopefully
take it with a ton of salt
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They'd have to completely remodel Kanto and make it its new, own thing.
I would like to hear the lamentation of all the anti-gen1 people, though.
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On March 09 2018 02:27 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2018 02:01 andrewlt wrote:
And frankly, I think catering too much to that niche is what made JRPGs lose their post-FF7 mainstream appeal over the last two decades. This does not really accurately describe the JRPG genre. It describes a good number of them, but "harem/shipping niche" is not how I would describe a game like, say, SMT4 and that game is by no measure exceptionally popular.
I wasn't implying that all of them are like that. In fact, I'm a big fan of the Persona series. What I'm suggesting is that the JRPGs that have gained more mainstream appeal in the west (Final Fantasy, Pokemon) are largely absent certain specific aspects of anime culture, specifically the harem/shipping niche and all that entails.
I compare it to the durian fruit. The smell is inoffensive mostly to people who like the fruit. People who don't like the fruit are really turned off by the smell. Elements of otaku anime culture like all the lolis and shotas are cringey to people who aren't fans. It's another turn off to mainstream audiences that the JRPG genre doesn't need. I wouldn't even call it a Japanese thing, either, as that segment of anime culture has been catering more and more to a smaller but very loyal fanbase.
Compare the 3DS and the PS Vita. Vita fans point to its "bigger" JRPG library as a selling point. But the Vita's JRPG library caters heavily to the harem/shipping niche and that thing is pretty dead here. My opinion is taking JRPGs heavily in this direction cuts off potential customers right off the bat. Better marketing is not going to fix having product development that cedes so many potential customers from the get go.
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The JRPGs that gained mainstream appeal in the West are the ones developed by developers that had the money to market and sell them in the West. JRPGs didn't become niche because developers chose to cater to a niche over appealing to the mainstream. JRPGs became niche because only niche developers would make them. I don't think its possible to read more into it than that.
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On March 09 2018 03:51 Gahlo wrote:
They'd have to completely remodel Kanto and make it its new, own thing.
I would like to hear the lamentation of all the anti-gen1 people, though.
I like kanto, the biggest issue with gen 1 is how buggy it is.
I have nothing against kanto or the pokémon, i just dislike the genwunners that'll cry and moan about anything that's not generation 1.
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I mean, they already have all the 151 pokemons from X/Y, Sun/Moon, they will probably use the same engine give it a 1080p docked and 720p undocked look, polish the textures quite a bit and thats it.
It would be a great idea to test the waters over the Switch & Pokemon, cheap, fast, story & world already done... just a little bit of "Queer eye of the straight guy" and gg (not that it will fail, it'll sell like hot cakes)
it'll probably be a new game though
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Does gen 1 need another remake? It got a complete overhaul in the DS generation for modern mechanics, and it was re-released on the 3ds as well. What are you going to get out of a slightly more modern UI that would be better than just having fresh, new content?
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The gen 1 remake was for GBA not the DS generation
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On March 09 2018 04:34 chocorush wrote:
Does gen 1 need another remake? It got a complete overhaul in the DS generation for modern mechanics, and it was re-released on the 3ds as well. What are you going to get out of a slightly more modern UI that would be better than just having fresh, new content?
Rather another gen 1 remake than the D/P remake which is up next.
I'm still hoping for a new game though.
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okami hd for switch is nice
crash trilogy!!!
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On March 08 2018 15:42 TMG26 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2018 06:53 Plansix wrote:On March 08 2018 04:46 TMG26 wrote:On March 07 2018 03:10 Plansix wrote:
I play and love Monster Hunter World. Don't remind me that capcom choose this... the easiest and most bloated mess of MH to date... It is great because it’s a MH I want to play, unlike all the other ones. And it looks amazing. What did World had that made you play it? World does have some nice things, but it is covered in a mess of shit ones, and removed great things. And once again, in the same series, capcom is officialy stating that dificulty should be lowered when targetting the western audience. It's insulting.
It cuts out a lot of the BS and lets players get to the meat of the game faster, which is important. The autocrafting and more organic system that play off the environment are also welcome. The ranged weapons are just better with better controls and all the weapons feel compelling. I have always had the potential to like MH, but bounced off the bullshit(collecting wetstones) and ever increasing difficulty to the early parts of the game. I don't have a problem with the drop in difficulty either, since the challenge is there in the later game and tempered monsters.
If you look long term, lowing the difficulty now allowed it to be one of the biggest selling games for Capcom in their history. They ate up all the Destiny's audience and dragged in everyone who liked dark souls too. I would not be shocked if start dumping in super hard endgame monsters for the next year. And then they will dump resources into MHW 2.
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EPT
