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Canada13405 Posts
On May 11 2016 23:51 Blacklizard wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2016 11:07 Djzapz wrote:
I love playing against Zenyatta. Everything I play just kills that guy for free. I find that he rarely lasts an entire game against competent opposition. IMO Lucio is just a straight up better support and I can't imagine Zenyatta being playing competitively, although that might change if some meta evolved and it was specifically about protecting him.
Also I noticed someone mentioned reaper might be designed to counter Widows... Definitely not. Widow will eat reaper for breakfast. And when I hear a loud "REPOSITIONING" I know I'm getting a free kill. The best counters to Widowmaker IMO are D.va in her mech, Winston and above all else, other Widowmakers. Or team compositions which make Window ineffective, making killing her less of a priority. So you mean all my Reaper has to do is teleport to get you distracted? Plus I'm not going to teleport next to you within vision my friend.  I don't think widowmaker is going to take out a reaper coming up behind her silently, and if Widowmaker stays distracted looking for a Reaper then she's not sniping my team. Sounds like a counter to me.
Naw, he's right. Reaper if I know he's teleporting and see where he's going is the easiest free kill in this game as widowmaker 
Flanking widow silently is key. Genji is the best flanking counter in my experience. Winston and D.Va can just harass her for days as well. Anyone who has more mobility than widow's grapple on a shorter cooldown is most effective. Against reaper, if I know I can't kill him with a full charged shot in time I'll just grapple away since I have a better CD and more range than him
Also widow's range means if she needs to reposition she can still be effective whereas if reaper fails his flank he kind of loses a lot of time.
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On May 11 2016 23:50 ZeromuS wrote:
Genji was solved in the meta by being nerfed, and his healer of choice zenyatta being nerfed, and the bonus hp from symmettra being nerfed.
Mei is the best solution to a genji in pubs. Can he escape her sure. But can he dive her or anyone near her? Nope. He's been nerfed to the point where there are just better options for certain compositions in competitive.
McCree can beat genji, and I agree hes also a good choice, but thats a skill matchup where you need to flashbang the genji before he deflects or if he's close enough by hitting the ground at his feet. Its nowhere near as simple as just left clicking as Mei and also less reliable.
Mei is good vs genji. She just cant do much else so she didnt get much play in comp because she can be ignored and played around in fully organized play, but outside of organized play shes top choice vs an annoying genji. Not so much tracer (another reason she wasnt used in comp was genji ran alongside tracer).
Also @djzapz A good widow will always destroy pharah. Pharah is not good vs widowmaker, if anything widowmaker will regularly shut down pharah very hard. She moves slow in the air, and is fairly predictable for sky movement making headshots really easy. Pharah can shoulder check and poke a widow out of one spot but if pharah doesnt know where widow is, then widow will destroy her.
Yeah, this is my experience as Genji against Mei. Her presence alone greatly limits Genji's flanking play. He's forced to stay more with the team, at which point you're better off with another hero in most circumstances.
I'd say that McCree vs. Genji is a pretty even matchup. McCree has the advantage because 1) he does more damage, and 2) he effectively has the first move, but it's certainly winnable for Genji if played right.
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On May 11 2016 23:51 Blacklizard wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2016 11:07 Djzapz wrote:
I love playing against Zenyatta. Everything I play just kills that guy for free. I find that he rarely lasts an entire game against competent opposition. IMO Lucio is just a straight up better support and I can't imagine Zenyatta being playing competitively, although that might change if some meta evolved and it was specifically about protecting him.
Also I noticed someone mentioned reaper might be designed to counter Widows... Definitely not. Widow will eat reaper for breakfast. And when I hear a loud "REPOSITIONING" I know I'm getting a free kill. The best counters to Widowmaker IMO are D.va in her mech, Winston and above all else, other Widowmakers. Or team compositions which make Window ineffective, making killing her less of a priority. So you mean all my Reaper has to do is teleport to get you distracted? Plus I'm not going to teleport next to you within vision my friend. I don't think widowmaker is going to take out a reaper coming up behind her silently, and if Widowmaker stays distracted looking for a Reaper then she's not sniping my team. Sounds like a counter to me.
As widow, I probably legitimately kill Reaper 20-25x more often than Reaper kills me. Literal non-issue. If they teleport behind me, I hear it and kill them. If I can't kill them before they get close, I relocate and ignore them. Then I call your position to my team and since your whereabouts are known you're a lot less dangerous. If you can kill Widows then good for you, they probably have poor spatial awareness though. Your teleport is actually rather loud.
On May 11 2016 23:50 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2016 16:12 Big G wrote:On May 11 2016 10:17 xDaunt wrote:
Mei owns Genji. If she catches Genji in close quarters, Genji is toast. Genji has to play around her. Mei owns everyone in a very specific situation, as does Junkrat or Hanzo etc... that's not really an argument especially when Tracer/Genji have an escape while other heroes do not. Would you say that Mei counters S76? Because that's what happens when he's out of position. We had a few weeks of Tracer/Genji dominance in competitive play and no one has ever played Mei to counter them. Heck, her pickrate went DOWN in that period, and IIRC she's only ever been played on Defense despite KOTH maps having lots of those "close quarters" fights. Teams eventually solved the Tracer/Genji meta by playing double McCree, while Mei sees less play than Bastion and Torbjorn. Also @djzapz A good widow will always destroy pharah. Pharah is not good vs widowmaker, if anything widowmaker will regularly shut down pharah very hard. She moves slow in the air, and is fairly predictable for sky movement making headshots really easy. Pharah can shoulder check and poke a widow out of one spot but if pharah doesnt know where widow is, then widow will destroy her.
I'm by no means the best widow but I rarely have issues with Pharah. However she's one of the characters that make hit registration a bit iffy for me. Good Pharahs (or laggy pharahs?) move weirdly erratically and it seems like the hitboxes are all over the place. However they're not at all the biggest threat to me. But once people get really good we'll certainly have Widows that straight up never miss those easy headshots on Pharah, I'm not there yet . Nonetheless I think there are things that can be done for Pharahs to be less vulnerable to widow. Some of them are sneaky enough and kill me with direct hits while I'm dealing with other stuff. They have enough mobility to do that. If they take a good widow head on while mid-air it's over though, for sure.
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Canada13405 Posts
On May 12 2016 00:10 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2016 23:51 Blacklizard wrote:On May 11 2016 11:07 Djzapz wrote:
I love playing against Zenyatta. Everything I play just kills that guy for free. I find that he rarely lasts an entire game against competent opposition. IMO Lucio is just a straight up better support and I can't imagine Zenyatta being playing competitively, although that might change if some meta evolved and it was specifically about protecting him.
Also I noticed someone mentioned reaper might be designed to counter Widows... Definitely not. Widow will eat reaper for breakfast. And when I hear a loud "REPOSITIONING" I know I'm getting a free kill. The best counters to Widowmaker IMO are D.va in her mech, Winston and above all else, other Widowmakers. Or team compositions which make Window ineffective, making killing her less of a priority. So you mean all my Reaper has to do is teleport to get you distracted? Plus I'm not going to teleport next to you within vision my friend. I don't think widowmaker is going to take out a reaper coming up behind her silently, and if Widowmaker stays distracted looking for a Reaper then she's not sniping my team. Sounds like a counter to me. As widow, I probably legitimately kill Reaper 20-25x more often than Reaper kills me. Literal non-issue. If they teleport behind me, I hear it and kill them. If I can't kill them before they get close, I relocate and ignore them. If you can kill Widows then good for you, they probably have poor spatial awareness though. Your teleport is actually rather loud. Show nested quote +On May 11 2016 23:50 ZeromuS wrote:On May 11 2016 16:12 Big G wrote:On May 11 2016 10:17 xDaunt wrote:
Mei owns Genji. If she catches Genji in close quarters, Genji is toast. Genji has to play around her. Mei owns everyone in a very specific situation, as does Junkrat or Hanzo etc... that's not really an argument especially when Tracer/Genji have an escape while other heroes do not. Would you say that Mei counters S76? Because that's what happens when he's out of position. We had a few weeks of Tracer/Genji dominance in competitive play and no one has ever played Mei to counter them. Heck, her pickrate went DOWN in that period, and IIRC she's only ever been played on Defense despite KOTH maps having lots of those "close quarters" fights. Teams eventually solved the Tracer/Genji meta by playing double McCree, while Mei sees less play than Bastion and Torbjorn. Also @djzapz A good widow will always destroy pharah. Pharah is not good vs widowmaker, if anything widowmaker will regularly shut down pharah very hard. She moves slow in the air, and is fairly predictable for sky movement making headshots really easy. Pharah can shoulder check and poke a widow out of one spot but if pharah doesnt know where widow is, then widow will destroy her. I'm by no means the best widow but I rarely have issues with Pharah. However she's one of the characters that make hit registration a bit iffy for me. Good Pharahs (or laggy pharahs?) move weirdly erratically and it seems like the hitboxes are all over the place. However they're not at all the biggest threat to me. But once people get really good we'll certainly have Widows that straight up never miss those easy headshots on Pharah, I'm not there yet . Nonetheless I think there are things that can be done for Pharahs to be less vulnerable to widow. Some of them are sneaky enough and kill me with direct hits while I'm dealing with other stuff. They have enough mobility to do that. If they take a good widow head on while mid-air it's over though, for sure.
Agreed pharah can kill a distracted widow. I just know that whenever i try playing pharah vs a good widow I literally get nothing done. When the game was newer and in lower mmr i was able to kill her but as I moved up in matchmaking I basically had to stop playing pharah into her and 76 as people just got too good at shooting me.
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On May 12 2016 00:16 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2016 00:10 Djzapz wrote:On May 11 2016 23:51 Blacklizard wrote:On May 11 2016 11:07 Djzapz wrote:
I love playing against Zenyatta. Everything I play just kills that guy for free. I find that he rarely lasts an entire game against competent opposition. IMO Lucio is just a straight up better support and I can't imagine Zenyatta being playing competitively, although that might change if some meta evolved and it was specifically about protecting him.
Also I noticed someone mentioned reaper might be designed to counter Widows... Definitely not. Widow will eat reaper for breakfast. And when I hear a loud "REPOSITIONING" I know I'm getting a free kill. The best counters to Widowmaker IMO are D.va in her mech, Winston and above all else, other Widowmakers. Or team compositions which make Window ineffective, making killing her less of a priority. So you mean all my Reaper has to do is teleport to get you distracted? Plus I'm not going to teleport next to you within vision my friend. I don't think widowmaker is going to take out a reaper coming up behind her silently, and if Widowmaker stays distracted looking for a Reaper then she's not sniping my team. Sounds like a counter to me. As widow, I probably legitimately kill Reaper 20-25x more often than Reaper kills me. Literal non-issue. If they teleport behind me, I hear it and kill them. If I can't kill them before they get close, I relocate and ignore them. If you can kill Widows then good for you, they probably have poor spatial awareness though. Your teleport is actually rather loud. On May 11 2016 23:50 ZeromuS wrote:On May 11 2016 16:12 Big G wrote:On May 11 2016 10:17 xDaunt wrote:
Mei owns Genji. If she catches Genji in close quarters, Genji is toast. Genji has to play around her. Mei owns everyone in a very specific situation, as does Junkrat or Hanzo etc... that's not really an argument especially when Tracer/Genji have an escape while other heroes do not. Would you say that Mei counters S76? Because that's what happens when he's out of position. We had a few weeks of Tracer/Genji dominance in competitive play and no one has ever played Mei to counter them. Heck, her pickrate went DOWN in that period, and IIRC she's only ever been played on Defense despite KOTH maps having lots of those "close quarters" fights. Teams eventually solved the Tracer/Genji meta by playing double McCree, while Mei sees less play than Bastion and Torbjorn. Also @djzapz A good widow will always destroy pharah. Pharah is not good vs widowmaker, if anything widowmaker will regularly shut down pharah very hard. She moves slow in the air, and is fairly predictable for sky movement making headshots really easy. Pharah can shoulder check and poke a widow out of one spot but if pharah doesnt know where widow is, then widow will destroy her. I'm by no means the best widow but I rarely have issues with Pharah. However she's one of the characters that make hit registration a bit iffy for me. Good Pharahs (or laggy pharahs?) move weirdly erratically and it seems like the hitboxes are all over the place. However they're not at all the biggest threat to me. But once people get really good we'll certainly have Widows that straight up never miss those easy headshots on Pharah, I'm not there yet . Nonetheless I think there are things that can be done for Pharahs to be less vulnerable to widow. Some of them are sneaky enough and kill me with direct hits while I'm dealing with other stuff. They have enough mobility to do that. If they take a good widow head on while mid-air it's over though, for sure. Agreed pharah can kill a distracted widow. I just know that whenever i try playing pharah vs a good widow I literally get nothing done. When the game was newer and in lower mmr i was able to kill her but as I moved up in matchmaking I basically had to stop playing pharah into her and 76 as people just got too good at shooting me.
I just don't play Pharah against Widows at my MMR because it's a chain-death sentence 80% of the time. I'm not sneaky  .
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Winston is what you take against a widow. Pharahs just get dropped from the air vs good Widows, they have to play super far back and defensive. A good Widow feels like the most OP thing in the game just due to how much space they control and how many heroes, which is pretty much all non tanks, die to a single charged headshot. Poor Tracer and Zeny die to a single charged bodyshot
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EPT
