EPTFinal Fantasy hasn't been turn based since...5, or something.
Ehm no, since 10
FF7 remake for PS4 announced - Page 21
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
Ehm no, since 10 | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
Thats the thing they dont get. Being overpowered doesnt make for a deep game, more or less. We want to use our brain and use our skills even in turn based combat. Its a "genre" that hasnt rly developed anything past these years. What about the positioning. Add that and make it deep and tactical. Hell, if they developed the turn based combat well in singleplayer, it could probably work out really well in multiplayer to. Again, the gaming isnt really developing. Or well its developing rly slowly. I believe it is because the game designers dont rly know what makes fun and good gameplay. | ||
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Faruko
Chile34171 Posts
the gameplay doesnt have anything to do with overpowered stuff, if anything its SE that doesnt know how to balance games dark souls uses ARPG system and its super abusable, im not sure what turn base system has anything to do with gameplay being overpowered | ||
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Arevall
Sweden1133 Posts
On December 08 2015 22:23 Foxxan wrote: About turn based, all games that has it, atleast all the FF games have these overpowered things such as giving haste to all party members or shield them all, or heal them all. Thats the thing they dont get. Being overpowered doesnt make for a deep game, more or less. We want to use our brain and use our skills even in turn based combat. Its a "genre" that hasnt rly developed anything past these years. What about the positioning. Add that and make it deep and tactical. Hell, if they developed the turn based combat well in singleplayer, it could probably work out really well in multiplayer to. Again, the gaming isnt really developing. Or well its developing rly slowly. I believe it is because the game designers dont rly know what makes fun and good gameplay. I find it strange that they have not developed on the style of the 'Tactics' game more. Turn based without a real spatial part will probably lack depth or be overly reliant on diffuse game mechanics in the long run. On the other hand games like FF often have grand battles versus large monsters or characters - something that I feel is harder to do in isometric turn based. | ||
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
ff11 was also their major cash-cow and now that that's gone it's up to the new generation to pick up the slack. i believe this remake will be forgettable except for those hardcore fans (there are many). i just believe there is too much pressure by having a game under that brand (less so these days). | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On December 08 2015 23:04 Faruko wrote: You say that but games like Star Ocean that werent turn based has some stupidly overpowered tactics, or that not even half in the game you can get the most powered weapon in the game and make the game a cake walk the gameplay doesnt have anything to do with overpowered stuff, if anything its SE that doesnt know how to balance games dark souls uses ARPG system and its super abusable, im not sure what turn base system has anything to do with gameplay being overpowered Its mostly updating a system to something that is interests the current market. The first 5 hours of FF7 are dull as bricks game play wise. Its basically attack an use potions until the fight is over. And the thing about FF games back in the PS1 and NES era is they were turned based partly because that is what the hardware could support at the time. But they always pushed the JRPG world forward and tried to do new things. There is no reason to think that the developers would try to recreate that for a mass market game when there are peers in a world with Mass Effect, Dragon and and the Witcher. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
On December 08 2015 23:27 nanaoei wrote: SE is barely earning more than konami, and it's only been just recently that they've been in the green. ff11 was also their major cash-cow and now that that's gone it's up to the new generation to pick up the slack. i believe this remake will be forgettable except for those hardcore fans (there are many). i just believe there is too much pressure by having a game under that brand (less so these days). I think you seriously underestimate the legacy that is FF7. The game kick started the RPG genre outside of Japan and made the Playstation what it is and in the long term started the console wars which Sony has not looked back on ever since and won every single time since then. The game is so popular that books, and movies have been made. The characters are so popular they have been put into games that have nothing to do with the Final Fantasy universe as it is expected the extra $$$ will generate just because of them. Hell the game became so popular it even affected hairstyles in Japan i.e. Teenagers started adapting Cloud's spiky hairstyle. This is a system seller. Whether Square is low on cash and this was there trump card is irrelevant. | ||
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Faruko
Chile34171 Posts
On December 08 2015 23:34 Plansix wrote: Its mostly updating a system to something that is interests the current market. The first 5 hours of FF7 are dull as bricks game play wise. Its basically attack an use potions until the fight is over. And the thing about FF games back in the PS1 and NES era is they were turned based partly because that is what the hardware could support at the time. But they always pushed the JRPG world forward and tried to do new things. There is no reason to think that the developers would try to recreate that for a mass market game when there are peers in a world with Mass Effect, Dragon and and the Witcher. I mean yeah you are right in that point, im sure you are right they might go action because it would have way more wide appeal than turn based, but im saying that that FF has always have abusable stuff and overpowered/cheap tactics, its not because its using turn base gameplay but because SE develops their games that way (or dont know how to balance stuff) | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
On December 08 2015 23:04 Faruko wrote: You say that but games like Star Ocean that werent turn based has some stupidly overpowered tactics, or that not even half in the game you can get the most powered weapon in the game and make the game a cake walk the gameplay doesnt have anything to do with overpowered stuff, if anything its SE that doesnt know how to balance games dark souls uses ARPG system and its super abusable, im not sure what turn base system has anything to do with gameplay being overpowered Ehm i dont know either, dunno what you are on about. All i said is that THE TURN BASED GAMES, atleast the FF series is this way. And even if it hasnt these OP things in them, they still lack alot of depth. | ||
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
so you may very well start of thinking he is just some cool-guy handyman to begin with, and that's the point. you (and the characters) slowly , piece by piece start to get hints at the actuality of things, until it gets to a point that your understanding of how fucked shit is has grown, however by that point cloud (and his companions) have also grown, to the point of being able to overcome it barret: damn! i dont give a shit what to think anymore, you in this game or not? tifa: im here for you cloud cloud: ok, *composes self* lets do it so cloud starts out with the appearnce to us, to tifa, to barret , to himself to an extent, that he is a bad ass. then we all learn and begin to crumble together. then we all grow together in our shared strength. and in this he is a badass afterall its such a great story of falling to strangeness, doubt and struggle, and managing to overcome it so that's my point about them "fleshing out" everything, giving us all those details that were from the other games etc. its surplus to what is needed to tell the story the way it was told. ff7 isn't the story of ff7+all the backstory from the other shit. ff7 is a story AS IT WAS TOLD. i'm not saying the world and backstory are not awesome (hell i've read my share of fanfic), i'm just saying you need to be careful when adding extra content for it not to impact upon an experience that was tailored to tell a story also i want to point out that a person's definition of "cool" may very well encompass someone who is a bit of a dork . having regular joe weaknesses but still trying to be strong is cool in my books. (wielding a 5 ft sword also counts) | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Belha
Italy2850 Posts
And, while i'm not aganist well made action rpg, FF VI to X was the best momentum of the series. Developers a lot of times fail to make real time battles stretegically deep. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On December 09 2015 12:17 Belha wrote: And, while i'm not aganist well made action rpg, FF VI to X was the best momentum of the series. Developers a lot of times fail to make real time battles stretegically deep. I've never found a single turn-based or ATB battle system that was strategically deep either. Unless you're doing a speedrun or something, and know every available item from start to finish and map out exactly how much damage and defence you'll need at every boss. | ||
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
1) yeah a company can and will talk utter shit,shamelessly, espec japerino company, imo 2) i would have thought you're talking 3 games, once per year 3) i wouldn't expect or want "much" more to flesh it out than redoing everything in HD and with a bunch of extra environmental fma mini cinematics 4) cid would go on an awkward date with tifa where he is awkwardly trying to be gallant-like and not to swear and spit and she is awkwardly trying to not feel uncomfortable as shit 5) i'm sure they will also "flesh it out" by making us do between 2x and 10x more random battles and walking down retarded corridors like in ff13 . ff7 was acutally pretty light with random battles imo so i wouldnt be as effected by an increase but most vitally it will depend on how fast battles take place: if they are seamless and action oriented instead of 4 minutes of afk autoatack ff13 style then that would help a lot . hopefully in ff13-3 they improved the gameplay and level design a lot over ff13-1, maybe someone could confirm this 6) at the end he is saying he wants open world exploration, more sidequests, character story etc. i think you would be mad to expect things like that. unless you're looking at a 2030 release. | ||
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lestye
United States4163 Posts
On December 09 2015 12:28 WolfintheSheep wrote: I've never found a single turn-based or ATB battle system that was strategically deep either. Unless you're doing a speedrun or something, and know every available item from start to finish and map out exactly how much damage and defence you'll need at every boss. There's some cute interactions with Materia you can play with, but the overall gameplay wasnt very deep. I've found Shin Megami Tensei games deep, and those are turn based, I feel the way they do spells interact with the gameplay, power buffs and debuffs, made it really intense. Final Fantasy... tends to have really lame spell interactions, like every spell is the same, and eventually spells are like the worst source of damage in the game towards the end. | ||
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Brett
Australia3820 Posts
On December 09 2015 04:15 FFGenerations wrote: well the thing is you (AND cloud, AND everyone else) slowly uncover the fact that something is weird (and increasingly weird) about cloud and his circumstances as the story itself progresses. so you may very well start of thinking he is just some cool-guy handyman to begin with, and that's the point. you (and the characters) slowly , piece by piece start to get hints at the actuality of things, until it gets to a point that your understanding of how fucked shit is has grown, however by that point cloud (and his companions) have also grown, to the point of being able to overcome it barret: damn! i dont give a shit what to think anymore, you in this game or not? tifa: im here for you cloud cloud: ok, *composes self* lets do it so cloud starts out with the appearnce to us, to tifa, to barret , to himself to an extent, that he is a bad ass. then we all learn and begin to crumble together. then we all grow together in our shared strength. and in this he is a badass afterall its such a great story of falling to strangeness, doubt and struggle, and managing to overcome it so that's my point about them "fleshing out" everything, giving us all those details that were from the other games etc. its surplus to what is needed to tell the story the way it was told. ff7 isn't the story of ff7+all the backstory from the other shit. ff7 is a story AS IT WAS TOLD. i'm not saying the world and backstory are not awesome (hell i've read my share of fanfic), i'm just saying you need to be careful when adding extra content for it not to impact upon an experience that was tailored to tell a story also i want to point out that a person's definition of "cool" may very well encompass someone who is a bit of a dork . having regular joe weaknesses but still trying to be strong is cool in my books. (wielding a 5 ft sword also counts) This is a fair point, but it depends on whether they throw in things like the CC material or not, and where they place the backstory sections. On December 09 2015 13:03 FFGenerations wrote: 6) at the end he is saying he wants open world exploration, more sidequests, character story etc. i think you would be mad to expect things like that. unless you're looking at a 2030 release. If they made this game open world in the vein of skyrim or fallout, I think I would lose my shit... Those games might give you lots to do, but it's all pointless, repetitive, superficial garbage. | ||
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Vaelone
Finland4400 Posts
The likes of FF tactics and more recently Valkyria Chronicles are my favourite incarnations of JRPG combat. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
So the combat wasnt deep either but something i liked about it was the fast pace it had. The attacks felt like cooler to do than in FF8,FF9 etc. It had some positives to it. On December 09 2015 12:17 Belha wrote: And, while i'm not aganist well made action rpg, FF VI to X was the best momentum of the series. Developers a lot of times fail to make real time battles stretegically deep. Agree. I remember playing FF12 and it just felt bad, like you had worse control of your chars or something. Hm, when i think about it i really dislike that you only need to control one char. FFX had the best turn-based-combat of all imo, it actually had some strategy at bosses to. If they made this game open world in the vein of skyrim or fallout, I think I would lose my shit... Those games might give you lots to do, but it's all pointless, repetitive, superficial garbage. Agree with this. I rather they 'try' to focus on quality, even in a linear storymode. Hell i liked FFX linear way of doing it. | ||
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
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