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On June 17 2015 04:44 jeeeeohn wrote:
Honestly I don't know why people bother posting in threads for games they automatically hate and know they'll hate on release. Whenever I ask someone to summarize the Fallout IP, it goes:
-Quirky humor
-Post-apocalyptic setting
In that exact order, every time, without fail.
So Fallout 3 comes out, and what do we get?
-Quirky humor
-Post-apocalyptic setting
The IP is not as precious or unique as you think it is. Fallout 4 is going to be an awesome Bethesda game, with a gigantic interactive world and a mostly rail-thin plot. "But you didn't play FO1 or FO2!" Yes I did. You shot stuff. You shot lots of stuff. Just because you're doing it in first person or from an isometric perspective doesn't change the fact that you're shooting stuff. Whether turn-based or in real time, you're shooting things in the face. All the time. In every Fallout game.
Quirky humour and post-apocalyptic setting is plenty (see Borderlands, Metro, STALKER and Wasteland just recently). What made the first Fallout games great was the fact that they really broke new grounds there, the world was so awesome and full of possibilities that they even cut out (censored) parts of it in Germany. The plot was fine, the characters were great and discovering all the aweome was a lot of fun.
Also, there wasn't necessarily a lot of shooting, you could create a talkative/stealthy character and be just fine (as a matter of fact, if you want to do speedruns in Fallout you need to do just that). There were many ways to play the game and all but it doesn't really matter, and you know why? Shifting the series from isometric view to FPP is what killed it for me (and I guess many others). This change was way too dramatic, to the point where it didn't feel like Fallout any more. That's why all the hate (of course, other reasons for hating the game like weak world, weak plot et al are still valid).
If I want to play an FPP post-apocalyptic game I turn towards Metro or STALKER, not Fallout. If I want quirky humour, shooting stuff and awesome action in a post-apocalyptic game I turn towards Borderlands. Fallout, since its 3rd iteration simply doesn't offer anything that its competition wouldn't do better in its respective areas. Metro has great atmosphere and good story, STALKER is scary as shit post-apoc survival game and Borderlands is full of amazing, cartoony, over-the-top action. Each of them fill a niche and each of them is great at it. Fallout (3 and on) isn't particularly good at anything.
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On June 17 2015 06:42 Manit0u wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2015 04:44 jeeeeohn wrote:
Honestly I don't know why people bother posting in threads for games they automatically hate and know they'll hate on release. Whenever I ask someone to summarize the Fallout IP, it goes:
-Quirky humor
-Post-apocalyptic setting
In that exact order, every time, without fail.
So Fallout 3 comes out, and what do we get?
-Quirky humor
-Post-apocalyptic setting
The IP is not as precious or unique as you think it is. Fallout 4 is going to be an awesome Bethesda game, with a gigantic interactive world and a mostly rail-thin plot. "But you didn't play FO1 or FO2!" Yes I did. You shot stuff. You shot lots of stuff. Just because you're doing it in first person or from an isometric perspective doesn't change the fact that you're shooting stuff. Whether turn-based or in real time, you're shooting things in the face. All the time. In every Fallout game.
Quirky humour and post-apocalyptic setting is plenty (see Borderlands, Metro, STALKER and Wasteland just recently). What made the first Fallout games great was the fact that they really broke new grounds there, the world was so awesome and full of possibilities that they even cut out (censored) parts of it in Germany. The plot was fine, the characters were great and discovering all the aweome was a lot of fun. Also, there wasn't necessarily a lot of shooting, you could create a talkative/stealthy character and be just fine (as a matter of fact, if you want to do speedruns in Fallout you need to do just that). There were many ways to play the game and all but it doesn't really matter, and you know why? Shifting the series from isometric view to FPP is what killed it for me (and I guess many others). This change was way too dramatic, to the point where it didn't feel like Fallout any more. That's why all the hate (of course, other reasons for hating the game like weak world, weak plot et al are still valid). If I want to play an FPP post-apocalyptic game I turn towards Metro or STALKER, not Fallout. If I want quirky humour, shooting stuff and awesome action in a post-apocalyptic game I turn towards Borderlands. Fallout, since its 3rd iteration simply doesn't offer anything that its competition wouldn't do better in its respective areas. Metro has great atmosphere and good story, STALKER is scary as shit post-apoc survival game and Borderlands is full of amazing, cartoony, over-the-top action. Each of them fill a niche and each of them is great at it. Fallout (3 and on) isn't particularly good at anything.
To be honest, the first person view change in Fallout 3 in theory wasn't necessarily a bad thing. The problem was how terribly implemented it was.
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Exactly. An RPG-FPS hybrid isn't incompatible with Fallout if the gameplay mechanics were executed like Deus Ex or System Shock's. It's just VATS thats terrible.
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On June 17 2015 07:20 TheYango wrote:
Exactly. An RPG-FPS hybrid isn't incompatible with Fallout if the gameplay mechanics were executed like Deus Ex or System Shock's. It's just VATS thats terrible.
GOAT RPG-FPS games.
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On June 17 2015 07:20 TheYango wrote:
Exactly. An RPG-FPS hybrid isn't incompatible with Fallout if the gameplay mechanics were executed like Deus Ex or System Shock's. It's just VATS thats terrible.
No, it is focus on shooting that is terrible. Fallout was not about going around and shooting stuff, that was just one option.
Even without Vats it is a FPS first and then a little bit of RPG down the line last.
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I think F4 made a big marketing mistake making its debut before the FF7 Remake. Now it is getting completely overshadowed.
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On June 17 2015 08:54 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2015 07:20 TheYango wrote:
Exactly. An RPG-FPS hybrid isn't incompatible with Fallout if the gameplay mechanics were executed like Deus Ex or System Shock's. It's just VATS thats terrible. No, it is focus on shooting that is terrible. Fallout was not about going around and shooting stuff, that was just one option. Even without Vats it is a FPS first and then a little bit of RPG down the line last.
That's not a product of the game mechanics, that's a product of the content design. The game being in first person and having shooter combat gameplay does not force the game to be combat-focused (for example, the original Thief series does relatively combat-light first person gameplay quite well). But it does force the game to accept certain strengths/weaknesses of the perspective when designing combat mechanics, which VATS does not utilize well (it tries to force the system into doing what 3rd person, isometric RtwP combat does better, while botching the aspects that are traditionally strengths of shooter gameplay).
Even calling Fallout a shooter is not really right because of how poor it is at making use of the elements that traditionally make shooter gameplay fun and engaging, thanks to VATS detracting from those elements. Mods that remove VATS or attempt to rebalance the combat in real time and better leverage player skill rather than just stats are pretty common and popular.
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On June 17 2015 09:01 whatisthisasheep wrote:
I think F4 made a big marketing mistake making its debut before the FF7 Remake. Now it is getting completely overshadowed.
I mean there is literally no way for them to know that game was being made and FF7 Remake won't come out for like 4-5 years.
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On June 17 2015 09:01 whatisthisasheep wrote:
I think F4 made a big marketing mistake making its debut before the FF7 Remake. Now it is getting completely overshadowed.
I think their big marketing mistake was showing a non-improved in game texture models for a trailer of their new game.
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On June 17 2015 09:15 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2015 09:01 whatisthisasheep wrote:
I think F4 made a big marketing mistake making its debut before the FF7 Remake. Now it is getting completely overshadowed. I mean there is literally no way for them to know that game was being made and FF7 Remake won't come out for like 4-5 years.
Yea but F4 was supposed to be the big reveal for E3 so they should have chosen to be the last presenter on the final day so everyone would be talking about them imo
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On June 17 2015 09:32 whatisthisasheep wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2015 09:15 Plansix wrote:On June 17 2015 09:01 whatisthisasheep wrote:
I think F4 made a big marketing mistake making its debut before the FF7 Remake. Now it is getting completely overshadowed. I mean there is literally no way for them to know that game was being made and FF7 Remake won't come out for like 4-5 years. Yea but F4 was supposed to be the big reveal for E3 so they should have chosen to be the last presenter on the final day so everyone would be talking about them imo
So they would win E3?
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This entire thread amazes and baffles me.
Did you like FO3? Then you'll probably like FO4.
Did you dislike FO3? Then you'll probably dislike FO4.
Do you like Bethesda in general? Hey, here's a new Bethesda game!
I just don't understand why so many people are bothering to post in this thread when they clearly don't like Bethesda or their Fallout games.
I'm not a huge fan of Minecraft. Do you see me seeking out Minecraft threads for the sole purpose of complaining?
I'd like to speculate on FO4's story, talk about what was revealed at E3, potential mods, etc., and instead I walk into a shitshow. If you know you're not going to like FO4, why are you here? If you're so damn certain that this game is trash, how exactly are you contributing constructively to the conversation about said game?
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Couldn't of said it any better myself, tired of coming into this thread hoping to see people talk about FO4, and all I see is complaints at how bad it looks or how much Bethesda sucks.
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On June 17 2015 10:34 jeeeeohn wrote:
This entire thread amazes and baffles me.
Did you like FO3? Then you'll probably like FO4.
Did you dislike FO3? Then you'll probably dislike FO4.
Do you like Bethesda in general? Hey, here's a new Bethesda game!
I just don't understand why so many people are bothering to post in this thread when they clearly don't like Bethesda or their Fallout games.
I'm not a huge fan of Minecraft. Do you see me seeking out Minecraft threads for the sole purpose of complaining?
I'd like to speculate on FO4's story, talk about what was revealed at E3, potential mods, etc., and instead I walk into a shitshow. If you know you're not going to like FO4, why are you here? If you're so damn certain that this game is trash, how exactly are you contributing constructively to the conversation about said game?
sorry we aren't bethesda shills, and aren't riding the hypetrain on fo4.
and if you had bothered to read any of the criticisms you would have realized that people want the game to be good, but aren't optimistic that bethesda can deliver.
On June 17 2015 11:44 Reaps wrote:
Couldn't of said it any better myself, tired of coming into this thread hoping to see people talk about FO4, and all I see is complaints at how bad it looks or how much Bethesda sucks.
pretty sure criticizing the game is talking about the game, and it's not like people here haven't posted well formed out thoughts as to why bethesda's take on the IP has failed.
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On June 17 2015 11:45 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2015 10:34 jeeeeohn wrote:
This entire thread amazes and baffles me.
Did you like FO3? Then you'll probably like FO4.
Did you dislike FO3? Then you'll probably dislike FO4.
Do you like Bethesda in general? Hey, here's a new Bethesda game!
I just don't understand why so many people are bothering to post in this thread when they clearly don't like Bethesda or their Fallout games.
I'm not a huge fan of Minecraft. Do you see me seeking out Minecraft threads for the sole purpose of complaining?
I'd like to speculate on FO4's story, talk about what was revealed at E3, potential mods, etc., and instead I walk into a shitshow. If you know you're not going to like FO4, why are you here? If you're so damn certain that this game is trash, how exactly are you contributing constructively to the conversation about said game? sorry we aren't bethesda shills, and aren't riding the hypetrain on fo4. and if you had bothered to read any of the criticisms you would have realized that people want the game to be good, but aren't optimistic that bethesda can deliver. Show nested quote +On June 17 2015 11:44 Reaps wrote:
Couldn't of said it any better myself, tired of coming into this thread hoping to see people talk about FO4, and all I see is complaints at how bad it looks or how much Bethesda sucks.
pretty sure criticizing the game is talking about the game, and it's not like people here haven't posted well formed out thoughts as to why bethesda's take on the IP has failed.
Many of the posts in the last 2-3 pages has been flat out insults towards the game or Bethesda, I can even quote some if you like, that's not talking about the game.
I'm curious as to why you think fallout 3 failed though, because as far as I know it had very successful reviews and many people enjoyed it. Just because you did not like it doesn't mean it "failed"
And before I get accused of fanboying Bethesda, I've only actually enjoyed 1-2 of their games.
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On June 17 2015 11:53 Reaps wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2015 11:45 wei2coolman wrote:On June 17 2015 10:34 jeeeeohn wrote:
This entire thread amazes and baffles me.
Did you like FO3? Then you'll probably like FO4.
Did you dislike FO3? Then you'll probably dislike FO4.
Do you like Bethesda in general? Hey, here's a new Bethesda game!
I just don't understand why so many people are bothering to post in this thread when they clearly don't like Bethesda or their Fallout games.
I'm not a huge fan of Minecraft. Do you see me seeking out Minecraft threads for the sole purpose of complaining?
I'd like to speculate on FO4's story, talk about what was revealed at E3, potential mods, etc., and instead I walk into a shitshow. If you know you're not going to like FO4, why are you here? If you're so damn certain that this game is trash, how exactly are you contributing constructively to the conversation about said game? sorry we aren't bethesda shills, and aren't riding the hypetrain on fo4. and if you had bothered to read any of the criticisms you would have realized that people want the game to be good, but aren't optimistic that bethesda can deliver. On June 17 2015 11:44 Reaps wrote:
Couldn't of said it any better myself, tired of coming into this thread hoping to see people talk about FO4, and all I see is complaints at how bad it looks or how much Bethesda sucks.
pretty sure criticizing the game is talking about the game, and it's not like people here haven't posted well formed out thoughts as to why bethesda's take on the IP has failed. Many of the posts in the last 2-3 pages has been flat out insults towards the game or Bethesda, I can even quote some if you like, that's not talking about the game.
I'm curious as to why you think fallout 3 failed though, because as far as I know it had very successful reviews and many people enjoyed it. Just because you did not like it doesn't mean it "failed" And before I get accused of fanboying Bethesda, I've only actually enjoyed 1-2 of their games.
It's like you didn't read any of the posts in this thread...
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On June 17 2015 11:53 Reaps wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2015 11:45 wei2coolman wrote:On June 17 2015 10:34 jeeeeohn wrote:
This entire thread amazes and baffles me.
Did you like FO3? Then you'll probably like FO4.
Did you dislike FO3? Then you'll probably dislike FO4.
Do you like Bethesda in general? Hey, here's a new Bethesda game!
I just don't understand why so many people are bothering to post in this thread when they clearly don't like Bethesda or their Fallout games.
I'm not a huge fan of Minecraft. Do you see me seeking out Minecraft threads for the sole purpose of complaining?
I'd like to speculate on FO4's story, talk about what was revealed at E3, potential mods, etc., and instead I walk into a shitshow. If you know you're not going to like FO4, why are you here? If you're so damn certain that this game is trash, how exactly are you contributing constructively to the conversation about said game? sorry we aren't bethesda shills, and aren't riding the hypetrain on fo4. and if you had bothered to read any of the criticisms you would have realized that people want the game to be good, but aren't optimistic that bethesda can deliver. On June 17 2015 11:44 Reaps wrote:
Couldn't of said it any better myself, tired of coming into this thread hoping to see people talk about FO4, and all I see is complaints at how bad it looks or how much Bethesda sucks.
pretty sure criticizing the game is talking about the game, and it's not like people here haven't posted well formed out thoughts as to why bethesda's take on the IP has failed. Many of the posts in the last 2-3 pages has been flat out insults towards the game or Bethesda, I can even quote some if you like, that's not talking about the game. I'm curious as to why you think fallout 3 failed though, because as far as I know it had very successful reviews and many people enjoyed it. Just because you did not like it doesn't mean it "failed" And before I get accused of fanboying Bethesda, I've only actually enjoyed 1-2 of their games.
I enjoyed both fallout 3 and nv and cannot wait for fallout 4 to come out.
Like you said I am following this thread for potential mods and info. The amount of criticism is kind of offputting.
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On June 17 2015 11:56 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2015 11:53 Reaps wrote:On June 17 2015 11:45 wei2coolman wrote:On June 17 2015 10:34 jeeeeohn wrote:
This entire thread amazes and baffles me.
Did you like FO3? Then you'll probably like FO4.
Did you dislike FO3? Then you'll probably dislike FO4.
Do you like Bethesda in general? Hey, here's a new Bethesda game!
I just don't understand why so many people are bothering to post in this thread when they clearly don't like Bethesda or their Fallout games.
I'm not a huge fan of Minecraft. Do you see me seeking out Minecraft threads for the sole purpose of complaining?
I'd like to speculate on FO4's story, talk about what was revealed at E3, potential mods, etc., and instead I walk into a shitshow. If you know you're not going to like FO4, why are you here? If you're so damn certain that this game is trash, how exactly are you contributing constructively to the conversation about said game? sorry we aren't bethesda shills, and aren't riding the hypetrain on fo4. and if you had bothered to read any of the criticisms you would have realized that people want the game to be good, but aren't optimistic that bethesda can deliver. On June 17 2015 11:44 Reaps wrote:
Couldn't of said it any better myself, tired of coming into this thread hoping to see people talk about FO4, and all I see is complaints at how bad it looks or how much Bethesda sucks.
pretty sure criticizing the game is talking about the game, and it's not like people here haven't posted well formed out thoughts as to why bethesda's take on the IP has failed. Many of the posts in the last 2-3 pages has been flat out insults towards the game or Bethesda, I can even quote some if you like, that's not talking about the game.
I'm curious as to why you think fallout 3 failed though, because as far as I know it had very successful reviews and many people enjoyed it. Just because you did not like it doesn't mean it "failed" And before I get accused of fanboying Bethesda, I've only actually enjoyed 1-2 of their games. It's like you didn't read any of the posts in this thread...
Yawn, I decided im not even going to bother wasting my time quoting any posts for you, would clearly be lost on you.
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On June 17 2015 11:59 Reaps wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2015 11:56 wei2coolman wrote:On June 17 2015 11:53 Reaps wrote:On June 17 2015 11:45 wei2coolman wrote:On June 17 2015 10:34 jeeeeohn wrote:
This entire thread amazes and baffles me.
Did you like FO3? Then you'll probably like FO4.
Did you dislike FO3? Then you'll probably dislike FO4.
Do you like Bethesda in general? Hey, here's a new Bethesda game!
I just don't understand why so many people are bothering to post in this thread when they clearly don't like Bethesda or their Fallout games.
I'm not a huge fan of Minecraft. Do you see me seeking out Minecraft threads for the sole purpose of complaining?
I'd like to speculate on FO4's story, talk about what was revealed at E3, potential mods, etc., and instead I walk into a shitshow. If you know you're not going to like FO4, why are you here? If you're so damn certain that this game is trash, how exactly are you contributing constructively to the conversation about said game? sorry we aren't bethesda shills, and aren't riding the hypetrain on fo4. and if you had bothered to read any of the criticisms you would have realized that people want the game to be good, but aren't optimistic that bethesda can deliver. On June 17 2015 11:44 Reaps wrote:
Couldn't of said it any better myself, tired of coming into this thread hoping to see people talk about FO4, and all I see is complaints at how bad it looks or how much Bethesda sucks.
pretty sure criticizing the game is talking about the game, and it's not like people here haven't posted well formed out thoughts as to why bethesda's take on the IP has failed. Many of the posts in the last 2-3 pages has been flat out insults towards the game or Bethesda, I can even quote some if you like, that's not talking about the game.
I'm curious as to why you think fallout 3 failed though, because as far as I know it had very successful reviews and many people enjoyed it. Just because you did not like it doesn't mean it "failed" And before I get accused of fanboying Bethesda, I've only actually enjoyed 1-2 of their games. It's like you didn't read any of the posts in this thread... Yawn, I decided im not even going to bother wasting my time quoting any posts for you, would clearly be lost on you.
You've made the right call. Some people only come to this thread to flame and troll fans of the newer games.
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On June 17 2015 06:42 Manit0u wrote:
If I want to play an FPP post-apocalyptic game I turn towards Metro or STALKER, not Fallout. If I want quirky humour, shooting stuff and awesome action in a post-apocalyptic game I turn towards Borderlands. Fallout, since its 3rd iteration simply doesn't offer anything that its competition wouldn't do better in its respective areas. Metro has great atmosphere and good story, STALKER is scary as shit post-apoc survival game and Borderlands is full of amazing, cartoony, over-the-top action. Each of them fill a niche and each of them is great at it. Fallout (3 and on) isn't particularly good at anything.
Its probably more correct to say that they're not as good as those games, but they still deliver a fairly compelling experience overall. I think at this point we should accept Fallout 4 is probably not going to be a groundbreaking game in any particular area except if you want to craft a gigantic neon sign shaped like Vault boy with flames coming out of it. But it will still probably be a solid game, with decent combat and levelling (hopefully, haven't seen much there yet). For whatever faults Bethesda has, the direction from Oblivion to Skyrim has been a positive one. The world is still pretty engaging, beautiful, and is filled with the wonder of exploration which you can't really find in other games like Metro (the last one was pretty linear, and unfortunately STALKER series ended a while ago).
I just think you have to stop approaching Fallout 4 in comparison to the masterpiece of Fallout 1 and 2, and just look at it as its own game. Which is for the most part, a decent shooter, with decent levelling mechanics. Not so great dialogue options and story, but an engaging world to explore. Bethesda puts out either 7/10 or 8/10 games IMO.
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