• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:27
CEST 17:27
KST 00:27
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments0[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence10Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon9[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups4WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments1SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia8Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues29LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments3
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Buy online Easily Top Quality Fake banknotes Face Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy SpeCial on The Tasteless Podcast
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around
Brood War
General
ASL20 General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Pros React To: SoulKey's 5-Peat Challenge [ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro16 Group D [ASL20] Ro16 Group C [Megathread] Daily Proleagues SC4ALL $1,500 Open Bracket LAN
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Borderlands 3 Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Personality of a Spender…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1357 users

The Big Patch Thread - Page 9

Forum Index > General Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 7 8 9 10 11 35 Next All
saddaromma
Profile Joined April 2013
1129 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-09 10:46:19
December 09 2015 10:45 GMT
#161
If we stop panicing and think seriously a bit.

Introducing R8 is the right direction to go. It solves one of major problem in competitive cs go, CT side being able to camp their way to victory when they get ahead. Its very common since all pro teams know how to use map, T might take round or two, but CT already have huge bank and can camp same spots over and over again.
R8 forces defensive side to be more creative at positioning, which leads to more dynamic games and risk taking.

I agree its OP. But general idea seems right.
Yrr
Profile Joined June 2012
Germany804 Posts
December 09 2015 10:47 GMT
#162
Here are some numbers regarding the pistol accuracy on the move change and the rifle recovery change:
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/3w1azc/in_depth_analysis_of_december_8_2015_weapon/
MMR decay is bad, m'kay? | Personal Hero: TerranHwaiting
Luolis
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Finland7118 Posts
December 09 2015 11:01 GMT
#163
On December 09 2015 19:45 saddaromma wrote:
If we stop panicing and think seriously a bit.

Introducing R8 is the right direction to go. It solves one of major problem in competitive cs go, CT side being able to camp their way to victory when they get ahead. Its very common since all pro teams know how to use map, T might take round or two, but CT already have huge bank and can camp same spots over and over again.
R8 forces defensive side to be more creative at positioning, which leads to more dynamic games and risk taking.

I agree its OP. But general idea seems right.

Thats just retarded. Rather than adding a mini-awp for 850$ and switching up round/bombtimers for majors (i cannot comprehend how dumb this is), rather make smokes last less, for more possibilities for terrorists. Honestly it just feels like an april fools prank or something.
pro cheese woman / Its never Sunny in Finland. Perkele / FinnishStarcraftTrivia
Ragnarork
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
France9034 Posts
December 09 2015 11:34 GMT
#164
switching up round/bombtimers for majors (i cannot comprehend how dumb this is), rather make smokes last less


When you think about it, your latter suggestion is actually somewhat equivalent to the former. Longer round -> reduces the effectiveness of smokes / molotovs (when used as time buffers).

So well...
LiquipediaWanderer
Luolis
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Finland7118 Posts
December 09 2015 11:40 GMT
#165
On December 09 2015 20:34 Ragnarork wrote:
Show nested quote +
switching up round/bombtimers for majors (i cannot comprehend how dumb this is), rather make smokes last less


When you think about it, your latter suggestion is actually somewhat equivalent to the former. Longer round -> reduces the effectiveness of smokes / molotovs (when used as time buffers).

So well...

Yea sure its somewhat equivalent, i just dont see any reason to switch game mechanics that have been there for 10 years or so. I dont think making the game slower than what it is now is the right choice, nor switching up fundamental core stuff. Rather do a smaller change with smokes lasting less, and keep the mechanics the same. (Not to mention that making retakes easier is, in my opinion, a really bad idea, as theres much less risk in trying a retake and itll also reduce the importance of defuse kits in competitive play.)
pro cheese woman / Its never Sunny in Finland. Perkele / FinnishStarcraftTrivia
Ragnarork
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
France9034 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-09 11:48:02
December 09 2015 11:47 GMT
#166
i just dont see any reason to switch game mechanics that have been there for 10 years or so


That's not an argument per se. It's not because it's been there for a long time that it shouldn't be changed. It's a random and dumb "traditionalist" argument. There are reasons some things are the way they are. Not looking at these reasons and thinking about the whys and if it should be set in stone is completely dumb.

That doesn't mean the changes have to be completely random or poorly thought either. About the retakes, I find it more interesting that you have more opportunity to do it. That's debatable, but that means more such scenarios, and I like it.

Defuse kits are a good point to mention though, that may need some further tweaking.
LiquipediaWanderer
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-09 11:56:54
December 09 2015 11:54 GMT
#167
The increase in round timer makes it so smokes are less effective but encourage retakes more because of the extra 5 seconds. People like retakes(high stress situations where every second matters) therefore its something that can be good. It disincentivizes saving and encourages taking risks.

Everyone is shooting this down before even having seen it. In Dota they changed the very map, laning mechanics and such as well, turned out it was for the better and encouraged more fast paced gameplay and less 4-1 stratting which was deemed ''boring''.

I think that the way they did it without asking input from others is probably a bad idea to go about it but since these players have been doing it for years they would just say no most likely.

Icefrog's influence stretches past its Dota realm.

''Because its tradition or because its been this way for 10 years'' is not neccesarily an argument in itself. There are loads of traditions that are/were changed because its for the better.
WriterXiao8~~
Luolis
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Finland7118 Posts
December 09 2015 12:04 GMT
#168
On December 09 2015 20:47 Ragnarork wrote:
Show nested quote +
i just dont see any reason to switch game mechanics that have been there for 10 years or so


That's not an argument per se. It's not because it's been there for a long time that it shouldn't be changed. It's a random and dumb "traditionalist" argument. There are reasons some things are the way they are. Not looking at these reasons and thinking about the whys and if it should be set in stone is completely dumb.

That doesn't mean the changes have to be completely random or poorly thought either. About the retakes, I find it more interesting that you have more opportunity to do it. That's debatable, but that means more such scenarios, and I like it.

Defuse kits are a good point to mention though, that may need some further tweaking.

We clearly know the old times work. I do not see a point in switching something that works. By the same logic of "making things more interesting", should we increase the size of football goals, or make the field smaller so theres more opportunities to score goals, since its "interesting". I dont understand why people would want to change something that quite obviously works on a fundamental level.
pro cheese woman / Its never Sunny in Finland. Perkele / FinnishStarcraftTrivia
Clonester
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany2808 Posts
December 09 2015 12:04 GMT
#169
Just played a round with Rekt 8:

Its completly op, the spray mode is so accurate while still kills, its like wtf, all pistols got nerved but this gun is made for rush and gun. In Force or Eco you just rush down a path and you allways get 2 kills, way out of hand.

The "scoping" is compeltly off, you scope, move around the corner, shoot, kill, back off... no reaction possible from enemy. Its not even funny how op this is.
Bomber, Attacker, DD, SOMEBODY, NiKo, Nex, Spidii
iXphobos
Profile Joined July 2010
Germany1464 Posts
December 09 2015 12:08 GMT
#170

Even without that the R8 is completely ridiculous.

Oh and there's a nice bug now. You can ALT TAB infront of a smoke and when you reenter the game the smoke is gone. xD
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-09 12:19:49
December 09 2015 12:19 GMT
#171
On December 09 2015 21:04 Luolis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 09 2015 20:47 Ragnarork wrote:
i just dont see any reason to switch game mechanics that have been there for 10 years or so


That's not an argument per se. It's not because it's been there for a long time that it shouldn't be changed. It's a random and dumb "traditionalist" argument. There are reasons some things are the way they are. Not looking at these reasons and thinking about the whys and if it should be set in stone is completely dumb.

That doesn't mean the changes have to be completely random or poorly thought either. About the retakes, I find it more interesting that you have more opportunity to do it. That's debatable, but that means more such scenarios, and I like it.

Defuse kits are a good point to mention though, that may need some further tweaking.

We clearly know the old times work. I do not see a point in switching something that works. By the same logic of "making things more interesting", should we increase the size of football goals, or make the field smaller so theres more opportunities to score goals, since its "interesting". I dont understand why people would want to change something that quite obviously works on a fundamental level.

Uhm yeah, they change rules in sports too, the reason why you don't change things in traditional sports too is because its bounded by physical stuff and the worldwide availability makes it super hard to actually change stuff. IIRC they changed something about Ice hockey not too long ago. In CSGO you can change code that translates into changing everything so its significantly easier to implement. The accurate comparison is with other video games, and they sure as hell change fundemental stuff in Dota, League and other video games.

Just because its good doesn't mean it can't work better.
WriterXiao8~~
Roggay
Profile Joined April 2010
Switzerland6320 Posts
December 09 2015 12:22 GMT
#172
On December 09 2015 20:47 Ragnarork wrote:
Show nested quote +
i just dont see any reason to switch game mechanics that have been there for 10 years or so


That's not an argument per se. It's not because it's been there for a long time that it shouldn't be changed. It's a random and dumb "traditionalist" argument. There are reasons some things are the way they are. Not looking at these reasons and thinking about the whys and if it should be set in stone is completely dumb.

That doesn't mean the changes have to be completely random or poorly thought either. About the retakes, I find it more interesting that you have more opportunity to do it. That's debatable, but that means more such scenarios, and I like it.

Defuse kits are a good point to mention though, that may need some further tweaking.

To me it is an argument in itself. It's not the only one obviously and changes can be good, BUT there is a merit to having a stable core of principles to the game. Sure you have to look at the reasons, but feeling that the game is good in its current state is also a good reason to begin with.

Considering the timers, I always did and will always have the principle that the game should be balanced around the highest level of play. I don't care at all that casual don't have enough time to retake a site, if the pros feel like 35sec is enough and plays well with how rotate times work on most map then it should not be changed. And as a personnal preference, I think 35sec is absolutely fine as it forces you to make good decisions fast and rewards those that can make those decisions / coordinate them. I also like the fact that it rewards T for correctly faking a site and planting at the other.
Luolis
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Finland7118 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-09 12:23:34
December 09 2015 12:22 GMT
#173
On December 09 2015 21:19 Kipsate wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 09 2015 21:04 Luolis wrote:
On December 09 2015 20:47 Ragnarork wrote:
i just dont see any reason to switch game mechanics that have been there for 10 years or so


That's not an argument per se. It's not because it's been there for a long time that it shouldn't be changed. It's a random and dumb "traditionalist" argument. There are reasons some things are the way they are. Not looking at these reasons and thinking about the whys and if it should be set in stone is completely dumb.

That doesn't mean the changes have to be completely random or poorly thought either. About the retakes, I find it more interesting that you have more opportunity to do it. That's debatable, but that means more such scenarios, and I like it.

Defuse kits are a good point to mention though, that may need some further tweaking.

We clearly know the old times work. I do not see a point in switching something that works. By the same logic of "making things more interesting", should we increase the size of football goals, or make the field smaller so theres more opportunities to score goals, since its "interesting". I dont understand why people would want to change something that quite obviously works on a fundamental level.

Uhm yeah, they change rules in sports too, the reason why you don't change things in traditional sports too is because its bounded by physical stuff and the worldwide availability makes it super hard to actually change stuff. IIRC they changed something about Ice hockey not too long ago. In CSGO you can change code that translates into changing everything so its significantly easier to implement. The accurate comparison is with other video games, and they sure as hell change fundemental stuff in Dota, League and other video games.

Just because its good doesn't mean it can't work better.

Yes they have changed things, but not huge fundamental things. I understand small balance/design tweaks like what you could explore with smokes and all sorts of stuff like that. Im simply not in favor of switching something that obviously is good to something that might, or might not be good. (guess why i stopped playing starcraft after lotv came out)

edit: i also agree 100% on what rogg wrote above this
pro cheese woman / Its never Sunny in Finland. Perkele / FinnishStarcraftTrivia
Yrr
Profile Joined June 2012
Germany804 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-09 12:27:37
December 09 2015 12:25 GMT
#174
On December 09 2015 21:08 iXphobos wrote:
Oh and there's a nice bug now. You can ALT TAB infront of a smoke and when you reenter the game the smoke is gone. xD

lol, this explains quite something.

edit: Yeah it works. you dont see the smoke anymore as long as you dont enter it.
MMR decay is bad, m'kay? | Personal Hero: TerranHwaiting
Roggay
Profile Joined April 2010
Switzerland6320 Posts
December 09 2015 12:32 GMT
#175
On December 09 2015 21:25 Yrr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 09 2015 21:08 iXphobos wrote:
Oh and there's a nice bug now. You can ALT TAB infront of a smoke and when you reenter the game the smoke is gone. xD

lol, this explains quite something.

edit: Yeah it works. you dont see the smoke anymore as long as you dont enter it.

This is something that would be discovered incredibly quickly with a beta client and fixed. It is mind boggling that they still don't have that.
Ragnarork
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
France9034 Posts
December 09 2015 12:38 GMT
#176
Their testing is awesomely bad, that's for sure. The fact that every single patch has always brought its big share of bugs is in itself so retarded it's... gah. Seriously!
LiquipediaWanderer
Nixer
Profile Joined July 2011
2774 Posts
December 09 2015 12:44 GMT
#177
I don't think bugs even are that bad if you compare it with the fact that your main features in your patch aren't good. Like honestly bugs are fine compared to this. Now it's just waiting for them to make things right again.
Graphics
Ragnarork
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
France9034 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-09 12:53:03
December 09 2015 12:52 GMT
#178
They are. Software engineering isn't a new thing, and Quality Assurance is something nearly every serious IT business does. There are well established practices and tools.

The patch can be bad decision-wise, that's something that may happen (even if in this case it's mindboggling how you can end up with that shit). There's no excuse for it to be technically bad. It just shows the developer doesn't care, or has a deadline from its editor (we always say Valve, but Hidden Path Entertainment actually develop the game, and has other production to maintain/carry on....) that actually makes no sense, and force to release too early to carry proper testing etc.
LiquipediaWanderer
Djzapz
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada10681 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-09 13:00:43
December 09 2015 13:00 GMT
#179
On December 09 2015 19:45 saddaromma wrote:
If we stop panicing and think seriously a bit.

Introducing R8 is the right direction to go. It solves one of major problem in competitive cs go, CT side being able to camp their way to victory when they get ahead. Its very common since all pro teams know how to use map, T might take round or two, but CT already have huge bank and can camp same spots over and over again.
R8 forces defensive side to be more creative at positioning, which leads to more dynamic games and risk taking.

I agree its OP. But general idea seems right.

It's absolutely the wrong thing to do. There is no problem with camping, in fact, as far as I can tell, camping is less of a problem in CSGO than it's ever been, with a serious offensive advantage. Maps are balanced, people know the popflashes to move players away from their "camping" positions (camping is not even a commonly used word in competitive play at any decent level). This gun is both OP and will be fixed I'm sure, but it's also conceptually wrong because it reinforces the T side in a game that came to be balanced without it.

Right now CS is broken and I stand by my last post. Hopefully they make it CS again sooner rather than later.
"My incompetence with power tools had been increasing exponentially over the course of 20 years spent inhaling experimental oven cleaners"
Yrr
Profile Joined June 2012
Germany804 Posts
December 09 2015 13:00 GMT
#180
Lets see if people get overwatch banned for using the smoke glitch.
MMR decay is bad, m'kay? | Personal Hero: TerranHwaiting
Prev 1 7 8 9 10 11 35 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 33m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Creator 137
ProTech89
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 40492
Bisu 3716
Rain 2288
Horang2 1573
GuemChi 1354
EffOrt 899
Larva 802
Mini 602
ZerO 517
Shuttle 423
[ Show more ]
BeSt 383
Killer 238
Snow 201
Rush 140
Zeus 125
hero 119
Hyun 105
Sharp 73
JYJ69
sas.Sziky 48
Backho 44
soO 33
ToSsGirL 26
Free 26
Sacsri 23
Sexy 20
Rock 17
Bale 13
ajuk12(nOOB) 13
Terrorterran 12
scan(afreeca) 11
Hm[arnc] 9
Noble 8
Dota 2
Gorgc6246
singsing3815
qojqva3060
Dendi1679
420jenkins348
Fuzer 259
XcaliburYe246
Counter-Strike
ScreaM1144
oskar143
kRYSTAL_32
Heroes of the Storm
Trikslyr34
Khaldor25
Other Games
gofns33910
tarik_tv21705
hiko586
Hui .422
DeMusliM414
RotterdaM354
FrodaN225
Liquid`VortiX102
XaKoH 94
Sick85
TKL 78
QueenE73
ArmadaUGS36
NeuroSwarm31
ZerO(Twitch)17
ToD12
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• poizon28 2
• intothetv
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 4801
• WagamamaTV388
League of Legends
• Nemesis8048
• Jankos1630
• TFBlade643
Other Games
• Shiphtur195
Upcoming Events
OSC
3h 33m
Cure vs Iba
MaxPax vs Lemon
Gerald vs ArT
Solar vs goblin
Nicoract vs TBD
Spirit vs Percival
Cham vs TBD
ByuN vs Jumy
RSL Revival
18h 33m
Maru vs Reynor
Cure vs TriGGeR
Map Test Tournament
19h 33m
The PondCast
21h 33m
RSL Revival
1d 18h
Zoun vs Classic
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
LiuLi Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-10
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL World Championship of Poland 2025
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.