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General Discussion - Page 154

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Please be advised:

We will be closing this General thread in 24 hours. It will remain searchable.

After that we will require new threads to discuss topics.

Questions should go in the stickied Q&A thread, screenshots and PotG will go in the PotG sticky, QQ/Rage/Complaints should go in the QQ/Rage thread. If you want to talk about maps or strategies open a new thread.

Any comments or concerns will be logged please forward them to ZeromuS. This new forum is still fluid so we will try this out. General TL rules will still apply to new threads.
Andre
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Slovenia3523 Posts
April 19 2016 18:58 GMT
#3061
You don't need to shun others to be displeased with the direction a certain product has taken. Blizzard has changed and it makes sense from business point of view but at least they've still stayed true to updating all their games until the end of time.
You must gather your party before venturing forth.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22440 Posts
April 19 2016 19:45 GMT
#3062
On April 20 2016 03:58 Reaps wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2016 03:39 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
On April 19 2016 23:32 Plansix wrote:
Yawn, Twitch viewers and anecdotal evidence used as a metric for success and self affirmation that game person does not like is a failure. Its like everyone is pulling their talking points from the same place, as is always on the internet.


ATVI is all about stock price. They shout from the mountain-tops any and every measure that shows the billions and billions they are making. Since 2008 we've heard a non-stop stream of news about the billions of cash Diablo , WoW, CoD, Skylanders bring in

NOTHING about Heroes of the Storm. The silence is deafening.

Diablo, Starcraft, and WoW thoroughly dominated their respective genres by any metric. it is odd to see Blizzard accept a tiny fraction of a market.

and this is waht Heroes of the Storm is doing against Dota2. I won't include LoL because if i did then the Heroes blue line resembles the EKG of a patient who stopped breathing 6 minutes ago.

http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=/m/0kz2x1z, /m/0dlkwn1&date=1/2015 12m&cmpt=q&tz=Etc/GMT+4

ATVI's complete silence about Heroes of the Storm is evidence of it is not meeting their internal expectations.

Internet guys like to use emo-laden language like "fail". I won't go that far. Heroes of the Storm is being outperformed by the industry leader by 2 orders of magnitude.



I said it when Heroes was announced and i'll say it again, i have no idea what blizzard was thinking releasing a MOBA at that time.

LoL was exploding on to the scene and Valve was set to make a lot of money off of a mod for a Blizzard game (Dota).
This lead to Blizzard Dota which lead to a legal standoff with Valve over the Dota name which ended with Valve not claiming the Dota name and Blizzard renaming theirs to Heroes of the Storm.

HotS was made because Blizzard was salty that Valve would make $$ off of their game(ish)
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 19 2016 19:47 GMT
#3063
Also, I am sure someone at activision said “Order us one of those Moba things from the Blizzard kids.” And they did the best they could. But I think Hots will just be a healthy little side project that just chugs along.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
sushiko
Profile Joined June 2010
197 Posts
April 19 2016 19:52 GMT
#3064
I wanted to come on here and ask if any TL members are planning to play during open beta, but I think I'm just gonna outside this thread for a good while.

deth, I think I saw you online during weekend beta, I'll hit you up when open beta rolls around.
deth2munkies
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4051 Posts
April 19 2016 21:12 GMT
#3065
On April 20 2016 04:52 sushiko wrote:
I wanted to come on here and ask if any TL members are planning to play during open beta, but I think I'm just gonna outside this thread for a good while.

deth, I think I saw you online during weekend beta, I'll hit you up when open beta rolls around.


Yeah, I think I remember you too. deth2munkies#1643. I'd be down to play with any TLers, though fair warning: not very good.
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17677 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-04-20 06:33:45
April 20 2016 06:19 GMT
#3066
new balance patch is out ... here are the notes.
http://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20743424148

On April 20 2016 04:47 Plansix wrote:
Also, I am sure someone at activision said “Order us one of those Moba things from the Blizzard kids.” And they did the best they could. But I think Hots will just be a healthy little side project that just chugs along.


when a completed project is healthy ATVI announces metrics indicating big revenue #s every chance they get. When ATVI is dead silent on revenue the project is not healthy.

ATVI is dead silent on revenue for Blizzard's MOBA.

examine the bottom of the ATVI Investor relations page. You'll notice WoW, D3, SC and Hearthstone are there along with Skylanders and CoD. YOu will notice Heroes of the Storm is not there. Why is not there? because it substantially underperforming.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
April 20 2016 06:30 GMT
#3067
On April 20 2016 15:19 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
new balance patch is out ... here are the notes.
http://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20743424148

Show nested quote +
On April 20 2016 04:47 Plansix wrote:
Also, I am sure someone at activision said “Order us one of those Moba things from the Blizzard kids.” And they did the best they could. But I think Hots will just be a healthy little side project that just chugs along.


when a completed project is healthy ATVI announces metrics indicating big revenue #s every chance they get. When ATVI is dead silent on revenue the project is not healthy.

ATVI is dead silent on revenue for Blizzard's MOBA.

So, which is more likely...

1) A project is not wildly successful, but still turning a modest profit, so it continues to get development and marketing cash.

2) Jimmy knows more than everyone else.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17677 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-04-20 06:44:13
April 20 2016 06:34 GMT
#3068
examine the bottom of the ATVI Investor relations page. You'll notice WoW, D3, SC and Hearthstone are there along with Skylanders and CoD. YOu will notice Heroes of the Storm is not there. Why is not there? because it is substantially underperforming.

i don't know more than everybody else. most people not on this forum board agree with my line of thinking.

o ya, i forgot... ATVI likes to keep it a secret when their franichises hit a billion in revenue.

i'm not the one throwing around emo terms like "fail". ATVI's actions speak far louder than anything i can type in this post.

Just watch how fast ATVI announces Overwatch hits "X" million sales. ATVI had the press release for 1 million sales made for LotV before the game was even released.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
nanaoei
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
3358 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-04-20 07:40:27
April 20 2016 07:35 GMT
#3069
as a blizzard kid i'm much more inclined to try out the new game overwatch than giving heroes of the storm more hours.
similarly, i'm much more likely to continue playing dota 2 than to transfer all my time to heroes.

the only upside to heroes is that it's great to play with friends at all levels. this is obviously a shallow view, but what happens when your friends (like me) feel like they've put enough time into the game already and are done with the game? well, you stop playing too. the same situation occurred for every team-based game ever.

if there were some activity graph for heroes of the storm, i'm sure you would see the same pattern in heavily declining # of hours played, and for more reasons than that the new game glow started to fade.

i don't see how views on twitch isn't an important number. if it's only consistently high relative to the rest, it means its community is quite large and is interested in constantly watching. if you don't believe game viewership brings a lot of extra exposure to a game and motivates people to continue playing, i don't know what to say.
if a game is poorly designed for watching but is meant to facilitate a professional league and major competitions, that's an important thing to note as well.
counter-examples are games that have already been established in the short-timeline of online gaming. streaming wasn't even a thing when counterstrike, tf2 and other such games were mainstays.
now we have games that are being developed with streaming and promotional aspects in mind, and, all during the period of time where twitch is at its peak.
*@boesthius' FF7 nostalgia stream bomb* "we should work on a 'Final Progamer' fangame»whitera can be a protagonist---lastlie: "we save world and then defense it"
AbouSV
Profile Joined October 2014
Germany1278 Posts
April 20 2016 08:16 GMT
#3070
Or, maybe, you could just play the game, because, you know, well, you have fun playing it.
nanaoei
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
3358 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-04-20 10:38:48
April 20 2016 10:36 GMT
#3071
if you gave a game the same popularity that sc2 has right now, maybe, 500 1v1's at any given time
divide by 5 and that's how many 5v5's you'd have in a moba.
how would you feel about waiting 15m+ between games just to play casually on a night i set aside to play games?

rofl... that factors into the enjoyment too, no? i enjoy HoN for example, but i know it's deader than dead and has been that way for a long time now. with the way that game was handled, people just packed their bags when alternatives came out.
*@boesthius' FF7 nostalgia stream bomb* "we should work on a 'Final Progamer' fangame»whitera can be a protagonist---lastlie: "we save world and then defense it"
Khalum
Profile Joined September 2010
Austria831 Posts
April 20 2016 10:39 GMT
#3072
But... this is the Overwatch thread, right?
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
April 20 2016 13:03 GMT
#3073
if you ignore posts around a certain person you should always avoid. Then yes !
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 20 2016 13:15 GMT
#3074
People like to talk about other Blizzard games and if those games are successful based on their own internal metrics.

I want to play overwatch, but they picked the one weekend where we had so much crazy stuff to do to invite me. But soon.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Meta
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States6228 Posts
April 20 2016 14:10 GMT
#3075
No other game is fun anymore after playing overwatch this weekend. D:
good vibes only
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17677 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-04-20 14:32:07
April 20 2016 14:28 GMT
#3076
i linked to the Overwatch patch notes in the very same post but instead of discussing that people chose to spend their time actively avoiding the clear evidence Heroes is underperforming by ATVI standards.
i guess they'd rather trash the people in this thread who do a bad job of expressing the shortcomings of a different Blizzard game.

i guess that's more fun than discussing the final changes to Overwatch before the dev team goes into bug-stomping mode and slows down on balance changes.

not sure why.

any way, according to Kaplan this is it.... with this patch..we're basically now seeing what Overwatch will be upon release.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 20 2016 14:32 GMT
#3077
Most people copy and patch the content of the patch notes rather than pontificate on their amateur understanding of the Blizzards internal finances. But such is your want.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17677 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-04-20 14:39:30
April 20 2016 14:34 GMT
#3078
any one could've done so and no one did. you are welcome to do so. if not, i think its more interesting to discuss Overwatch in its final state.

at this point i've done more than anyone else to discuss this patch.

but, if you can't handle too much logic and facts in my posts you can always just attack my style of posting.

any one know when Hanamura is coming back?

Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
April 20 2016 14:38 GMT
#3079
People probably didn't link them because there's not a lot there. Small map changes, even if significant, generally aren't all that attention grabbing.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17677 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-04-20 14:44:31
April 20 2016 14:41 GMT
#3080
according to Plansix i'm supposed to copy and paste them and not merely provide a link. why don't you two guys debate this in PM and keep me out of it.

any how, do you know what is going on with Hanamura?

i like how they are providing their thinking behind their changes as opposed to just giving us the facts.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
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