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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On February 19 2015 04:27 crms wrote: edit: Paragon slight lead getting back to Blackhand, but Method on the big boss after reset. the race is on! Hmm? Method got to Blackhand 40mins-1hour quicker than Paragon today. Paragon though spent 2hours this morning running heroic where as Method didn't. Just killed blackhand hc once and highmaul mythic kargath inbetween breaks. | ||
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crms
United States11933 Posts
On February 19 2015 07:23 Pandemona wrote: Hmm? Method got to Blackhand 40mins-1hour quicker than Paragon today. Paragon though spent 2hours this morning running heroic where as Method didn't. Just killed blackhand hc once and highmaul mythic kargath inbetween breaks. Battle.net must update really slow / inconsistently then, my bad. Either way, race is TIGHT, should be fun. | ||
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caelym
United States6421 Posts
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ViperPL
Poland1775 Posts
 Oh man, weekend with archeology grinding for me it is Unless I buy something like 300 spirits of harmony. | ||
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Pantagruel
United States1427 Posts
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SixStrings
Germany2046 Posts
I can't put my finger on it, there's plenty of stuff to do, raids seem really well tuned and quite challenging, but I don't really care at all... | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On February 19 2015 23:17 SixStrings wrote: I think I have officially outgrown this game... I don't give a shit about item-upgrades, killing any boss in a group full of strangers feels hollow, any quest at level 100 feels like a waste of time and this is the first expansion in which I skipped most of the quest texts... I can't put my finger on it, there's plenty of stuff to do, raids seem really well tuned and quite challenging, but I don't really care at all... Enjoying the game is 100% about finding people to enjoy the content with. | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On February 20 2015 00:05 deth2munkies wrote: Enjoying the game is 100% about finding people to enjoy the content with. 100% this. Imo any multiplayer game is infinitely worse without a guild/team/group of friends to play with, from sc2 to mobas. | ||
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caelym
United States6421 Posts
On February 19 2015 23:17 SixStrings wrote: I think I have officially outgrown this game... I don't give a shit about item-upgrades, killing any boss in a group full of strangers feels hollow, any quest at level 100 feels like a waste of time and this is the first expansion in which I skipped most of the quest texts... I can't put my finger on it, there's plenty of stuff to do, raids seem really well tuned and quite challenging, but I don't really care at all... its funny you use the word outgrown. I've met way more older folks in wow than in any other game. | ||
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SixStrings
Germany2046 Posts
In TBC, we were a group of four, and simply through pugging, we found a new 'friend' every other day. When one of us got a big upgrade, it felt like we all did. Now doing dungeons feels like I'm running around alongside bots. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7368 Posts
Also US-Tichondrius, Alliance (Druid) | ||
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
On February 20 2015 03:17 SixStrings wrote: Alas, all the people I used to play with have long since quit. And unless you're willing to invest SERIOS amounts of time, I'm afraid it's rather difficult to find new people. In TBC, we were a group of four, and simply through pugging, we found a new 'friend' every other day. When one of us got a big upgrade, it felt like we all did. Now doing dungeons feels like I'm running around alongside bots. That is just a problem with Blizzard in general I honestly couldn't care less if the people around me were bots or actual people be it in hearthstone / starcraft or WoW | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On February 20 2015 04:11 Drazerk wrote: That is just a problem with Blizzard in general I honestly couldn't care less if the people around me were bots or actual people be it in hearthstone / starcraft or WoW It's not "just a problem with Blizzard in general", but the natural outcome of changes Blizzard has made to WoW's systems and mechanics since the launch of the game. In Vanilla and Burning Crusade, forming a pick up group meant standing in one of your faction's major cities and spamming messages until all needed slots were filled, followed by every player individually traveling to the instance location. You were limited to your server's players only, meaning the pool of available players was generally small especially if you were looking for a less popular/more difficult instance or were playing during off hours. As you might imagine this was fairly inconvenient, time-consuming, and often unsuccessful. That challenge, however, was a big part of what fueled the birth of in-game friendships and the creation of guilds. When you met someone that knew their stuff, who was fun to play with, or who simply wouldn't give up you friended those people because it made the process easier. Eventually you either joined whatever guild housed the majority or most valuable of your friends, or you made your own. The other major motivator was the necessity of the dungeons themselves. In order to raid you first needed to complete dungeons and gear up, and your odds of getting the drop you needed were far lower then. You might run a dungeon dozens of times before seeing the drop let alone winning the roll. Combined with the dungeon's difficulty developing a reliable list of people you could depend on was an absolute necessity. This is not to say that this system was good, far from it. The time commitment required by this system was staggering; you needed at least several uninterrupted hours during primetime to reliably run dungeons. There were many players who wanted to, but the overhead of finding players, traveling to the instance, and then finding replacement players was more than they could spare. Naturally Blizzard attempted to fix this. After a few minor attempts (e.g. summoning stones and shorter, more linear dungeons in Burning Crusade) Blizzard introduced the LFD tool in Wrath of the Lich King. This tool successfully eliminated the hassle of having to find players for a group, but also set the stage for the "other players might as well be bots" sentiment. Initially the tool did nothing but group players together, but it quickly became apparent that the success rate of groups assembled by the tool was abysmally low compared to those put together manually by players. Over time Blizzard made changes to improve the success rate of LFD groups, including allowing cross-realm grouping, until eventually it became almost impossible to fail. Once LFR was released the need to build a reliable list of friends was completely gone, as were all the old models of progression. Along with other changes, such as the removal of most group quests from leveling, the once myriad of organic ways to meet and befriend other players were hunted to extinction, the casualty of convenience. I don't know that WoW is necessarily a worse game as a result, but it's certainly a different game, and one where it's easy to feel alone and eventually bored. Anyway, that's my 4000th post. Hope it was worth reading. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
I think the difference is back then you were basically forced into looking for other players, or you were left with nothing to do. Now you can play without a guild - run pugs, run LFR/LFD, but it's just so much worse. Some players just don't bother with looking for one guild they fit in, which i don't really understand but whatever, decisions are decisions. It's kind of similar to sc2; it feels very lonely at first, but with a group of friends it's just so much better. The best time i've ever had in sc2 wasn't ladder practice at all, but just goofing around with my teammates, or preparing tournaments and clan wars with them. | ||
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Alventenie
United States2147 Posts
I find myself always getting into a habit now (that I have returned from vanilla/TBC) that I will ponder around doing nothing because I can't get into a group. As a melee dps it takes forever to get into the premade groups because no one wants you. I found a group that is really nice and raids twice a week for like 3 hours each. Group is awesome and I enjoy playing with them so its definitely much more fun now than before. I also am in a guild that has a lot of hilarious people (a few RL friends too so that helps). We have a great time and it doesn't bother us too much that we can't be super progressed compared to other guilds (We are 6/7 Heroic HM). We are moving to 2 nights a week now vs 1 night and should have a bit more fun, but overall we understand were not mythic raiders and we play to enjoy ourselves. Well, except for that BRF trash, seriously that stuff hurts. The biggest thing I can suggest is finding a guild that aligns with what you want out of the game. If you want to play the game to socialize and have fun, find a guild that does the same. If you want to be super hardcore and progress, then find that guild where people's attitudes reflect yours. When you are in a guild where your own goals don't reflect what the guild wants you are going to run into that situation where you aren't enjoying yourself. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On February 20 2015 06:13 Teoita wrote: I wonder how things would change if LFD/LFR were restricted to a single server. I think the difference is back then you were basically forced into looking for other players, or you were left with nothing to do. Now you can play without a guild - run pugs, run LFR/LFD, but it's just so much worse. Some players just don't bother with looking for one guild they fit in, which i don't really understand but whatever, decisions are decisions. It's kind of similar to sc2; it feels very lonely at first, but with a group of friends it's just so much better. The best time i've ever had in sc2 wasn't ladder practice at all, but just goofing around with my teammates, or preparing tournaments and clan wars with them. That would completely defeat the point of both of those systems. In the truly early days of WoW, you could satisfy yourself by simply exploring the world, finding new things, new quests, killing opposing players in world PvP. Everything was fresh and new, people didn't have huge expectations of exactly how everything was supposed to work. Hell, back then questing wasn't really the best way to level because their XP rewards were nowhere near as high as they are now. Times have changed. It's much easier to explore the entire world in a few days, there are so many sites out there that spoil all of the content for you so you know exactly what you're getting into before you get into it and there's no mystery, nothing to explore, and it's not new. What's left is the community aspect, which has also changed. I used to have a friendslist that had 3-4 of the better tanks and a couple healers on the server. They knew me, I knew them, we both knew that we were good players and often I was able to form groups around having good tanks and good healers. Most of the people on the server lived or died by their reputations in PvP and PvE, and being known as a good player was integral to being accepted by a good guild. Many guilds weren't large enough to raid on their own and made partnerships with other guilds (those often ended up in one guild falling apart and the other getting larger, but I digress). In order to experience the content, you HAD to connect with other people. The reason this fell out of favor was the rise of MMOs like Guild Wars and eventually The Old Republic that allow for an immersive single player experience as well as a robust community. That coupled with waning subscriber numbers towards the end of Wrath pushed the thought that WoW needed to offer more for casual players that didn't have playgroups that wanted to experience group content. With Cataclysm came Raid Finder, which I personally disdain, that ended up allowing individual players to experience raid content by themselves. The problem is that with the increase in the ability for single players to experience group content, came a hollowness about it. It used to take a group of people working together and now a bunch of faceless people can down a dungeon or run through a raid without saying a single word to each other. That's why finding a good guild and experiencing difficult content is pretty much all that's left in this game to find fun. At least for me. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
That would completely defeat the point of both of those systems. It would be a compromise for sure, i just wonder wether it would do anything for the "old" sense of community that's completely gone. In TBC i could just log in the Scryer bank and hang out with all the good raiders on the server (granted it was dead as fuck, we only had 1-2 active guilds per side but still), that's completely gone now. I agree on what you said about guilds and difficult content 100% though. | ||
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crms
United States11933 Posts
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On February 20 2015 07:56 Teoita wrote: It would be a compromise for sure, i just wonder wether it would do anything for the "old" sense of community that's completely gone. In TBC i could just log in the Scryer bank and hang out with all the good raiders on the server (granted it was dead as fuck, we only had 1-2 active guilds per side but still), that's completely gone now. I agree on what you said about guilds and difficult content 100% though. Most individual servers, even on merged ones, don't have the population to support putting 25 people in a LFR every day of the week, much less within an hour of queuing. It would also explode queue times ridiculously for dps to 1-2 hours minimum on HIGH pop servers, never mind low pop servers. The whole point of the system was to allow people to play and experience content on low pop servers without having to join large groups. You can't put the genie back in the bottle and isolate people back to their servers anymore. It's way too late for that. TBH, that's the real allure of private servers that are stuck on older patches. Those servers have good, close knit communities, but are dependent on 3rd parties to run and maintain them. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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