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I do like the look of this expansion a lot! Still not sure if ill come back and play though, maybe ill just do what I did with Pandaria and take the 10 day trial and try to explore the new zones in that time :p I do always try to keep myself up with the lore though! I have to say the time travel stuff so far sounds pretty confusing and bad, I feel like they could have just thrown the whole thing into Caverns of Time and leave Garrosh out of it already but ill wait for the full explanation.
On November 13 2013 21:18 digmouse wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2013 20:59 FFW_Rude wrote:On November 13 2013 20:27 Disengaged wrote:On November 13 2013 20:11 FFW_Rude wrote:On November 13 2013 19:06 Grettin wrote:On November 13 2013 18:58 FFW_Rude wrote:
Speaking of portal (i'm quite out of the subject but) do people know if the portals that are in duskwood (where there was a dragon (i assume it has been remove i never saw him again) are link to that story ? Will there ever be something with those (or maybe i missed something) I didn't know this myself either, so i read something about it. It is home to one of the four portals to the Emerald Dream. The other three portals are in Feralas, The Hinterlands, and Ashenvale. There is also a fifth in Crystalsong Forest in Northrend. http://www.wowwiki.com/Twilight_GroveThese dragons were once the lieutenants of Ysera, protecting the Emerald Dream from evil and whatnot. They have, however, also been corrupted by the Nightmare, twisting their powers and turning the dragons into what they once fought. There are four of them, each having emerged from one of the four portals connecting Azeroth to the Emerald Dream. They are found in Duskwood (Twilight Grove), the Hinterlands (Seradane), Feralas (Dream Bough), and Ashenvale (Bough Shadow). Although the portals are inactive, the dragons can be fought and killed, all of them being outdoor raid-bosses. More about Emerald Dream and answer to your question here: http://www.wowwiki.com/Emerald_Dream Ooohhhh thank you  i'm such a noob with that lore I'm not finished reading (just started) but i search for the terms "removed", "got back" etc... and i don't see if they are still in the game. I'm going to read it at lunch  i'll see if i can still fight this sucker or not in the current state of the game. You cannot. Unless I'm mistaken. That's what i thought. But reading this thing made me wonder. In late 2007 blizzard said that they had plans for the emerald dream but they scrapped it for the "greater good" or something. So i read in this very thread that project titan was delayed and that it was in 2007 (can't find where i read it) when they said they wanted to scrap it or something. Titan... Who created the emerald dream ? Titans ! So is project titan a wow expansion and not an entierly new game ? maybe this hypotethis has been mentionned but i found it odd and wanted to share. Emerald Dream has been basically axed out lore-wise and probably won't happen in a while if not forever.
They did have enough lore and almost a perfect set up for an expansion in the Emerald Dream earlier but they did decide to just throw it in the Stormrage novel that basically tied all the open plotlines. I wouldnt mind them adding like a single zone in the Dream though. Or maybe they will wait a few more expasions and then recreate the entire old world in the Dream, kinda like what they are doing with Draenor now. Then we would have 2 draenors and 2 Azeroths, wouldnt be confusing at all 
Oh and the music is so good, Ive been looping those tracks for a couple of days now and I just get chills everytime. If not for the game itself, Im at least excited for the soundtrack! :D
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Italy12246 Posts
Recreating Azeroth in the Dream woudl be pretty boring because the two have to be basically the same, so except for a few spots where the cities are, the worlds would be identical. Not exactly a great way to design an expansion.
I wish they'd done a instance in it where we fight off the Nightmare though. Too bad that plot line was resolved; i don't really like how much they focus on outside sources like books to talk about ingame lore.
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I don't understand the point of the garrisons, the world is big enough that you can always find a place of your own if you want to.
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On November 13 2013 21:47 Teoita wrote:
Recreating Azeroth in the Dream woudl be pretty boring because the two have to be basically the same, so except for a few spots where the cities are, the worlds would be identical. Not exactly a great way to design an expansion.
I wish they'd done a instance in it where we fight off the Nightmare though. Too bad that plot line was resolved; i don't really like how much they focus on outside sources like books to talk about ingame lore.
Isnt the dream a lot different though? Since there is no Kalimdor / Eastern Kingdoms as it is all still just one huge landmass. I remember reading that The Sundering blew off most of the land away entirely, so not only would all the continents be still together but there would also be huge areas of land that are not there today. That and all the things that the mortal races have done to change the enviroment gone would make for an quite a different world than the present day/vanilla WoW Azeroth.
I do agree with the point about throwing the unwanted lore bits into books, at least if they are as major as this one. Especially considering how the book itself wasn't even very good imo.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51449 Posts
On November 13 2013 21:51 Grumbels wrote:
I don't understand the point of the garrisons, the world is big enough that you can always find a place of your own if you want to.
True but the way they are making it, so you can gather up followers to start farming the world for you is pretty epic
Also the fact it opens up more crafting abilities for you.
So you don't have to have all your alts with the crafting abilities you want. You can just get them made in your Garrison :D
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On November 13 2013 21:54 Calthrash wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2013 21:47 Teoita wrote:
Recreating Azeroth in the Dream woudl be pretty boring because the two have to be basically the same, so except for a few spots where the cities are, the worlds would be identical. Not exactly a great way to design an expansion.
I wish they'd done a instance in it where we fight off the Nightmare though. Too bad that plot line was resolved; i don't really like how much they focus on outside sources like books to talk about ingame lore. Isnt the dream a lot different though? Since there is no Kalimdor / Eastern Kingdoms as it is all still just one huge landmass. I remember reading that The Sundering blew off most of the land away entirely, so not only would all the continents be still together but there would also be huge areas of land that are not there today. That and all the things that the mortal races have done to change the enviroment gone would make for an quite a different world than the present day/vanilla WoW Azeroth. I do agree with the point about throwing the unwanted lore bits into books, at least if they are as major as this one. Especially considering how the book itself wasn't even very good imo.
I don't understand why they can't create at least a quest line in the game to reflect on developments made in the novels. My brother actually buys all of them (I don't think he has very good taste though), there does seem to be a market for them. And Blizzard can always create more lore threads that need to be resolved, so there is always room for more books. I don't think it's too bad, but if it exists purely in the novels and isn't reflected in the in-game story then it's obnoxious.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On November 13 2013 22:05 Pandemona wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2013 21:51 Grumbels wrote:
I don't understand the point of the garrisons, the world is big enough that you can always find a place of your own if you want to. True but the way they are making it, so you can gather up followers to start farming the world for you is pretty epic Also the fact it opens up more crafting abilities for you. So you don't have to have all your alts with the crafting abilities you want. You can just get them made in your Garrison :D
Twist: Your followers are your alts
;; hope not.
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On November 13 2013 03:02 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2013 02:40 Warri wrote:On November 12 2013 23:46 Pandemona wrote:On November 12 2013 23:32 Malli wrote:"Reforging was supposed to be something that let players customize their gear to change their playstyle a little bit. It ended up just being extra work (and math) that had to be done if you wanted the most optimal gear." I hate this kind of thinking.. all those simplifications  But it wasn't was it. Originally when implemented maybe it was. But now reforging is nothing. It's have you got hit capped, have you got expertise capped (if you need it) if the answer is yes. Then everything else is reforged to buff your main stat. For me as mage, get hit capped at 15% then spam everything onto Crit (Fire mage whats up?!). My warrior is 15% expertise for tanking and 7.5% hit cap. After that i just float around Masetry and let the auto program reforge for me. Id much rather the way its going. Remove reforge, remove hit and expertise. Remove "many" gem slots and add in gems that give GOOD value upgrades which are not just crit masetry etc, we want 1000 more spell power gem or something so it feels like an actual gem etc, much more fun i think. Just like the talent system now where you can pretty much choose any few talents on a fight, i want the same for Gems. On November 12 2013 23:26 Grettin wrote:Some interesting info on the instant boost to level 90. Level 90 BoostOne of the problem's with WoW's success is the number of people coming back for a new expansion and not being able to join their friends right away. People may have left the game during previous expansions and would have had to level a lot before they were able to start playing with friends, which is not as much fun as playing right away. Giving everyone one free Level 90 should help out returning players.
If you take advantage of the Level 90 boost, the experience will be like Scroll of Resurrection on steroids. All of the skills will be removed from your bar except for the few that you need to be able to kill things. As you complete quests you will get more of your abilities until you have all of them, similar to the Death Knight starting experience. Also some miscellaneous info: MiscDraenor should feel scary, similar to the experience with Fel Reavers in Outland. There are giant Gron walking around, making the world a more dangerous place. Flying mount access will be delayed as long as possible, maybe even past Level 100 until Patch 6.1. (Keep in mind this is just an idea being tossed around) More here: http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/ Oh nice, thanks for this information :D I do hope they stick with the no flying mounts till later patches makes it better. No one likes leveling alts getting ganked for fun because some sad nerd is waiting to kill u because he has low self esteem xD The level 90 and not having all your spells is awesome idea too, really helps if people want to play something they have no idea about. Blizzard Winning! On November 12 2013 19:20 FFW_Rude wrote:On November 12 2013 18:03 Pandemona wrote:Updated to here with all battle tags i have gotten Click the link in the MOD note to see everyone. Included Bash too FFW#2606 - EU - Alliance [Rashgaroth[FR]] EDIT : Woops sorry double post Added you mate And here i thought reforge was a way to allow you to equip items which werent really good or had the stat you needed. All your other items already have hit and this new one would bringt you over the hitcap? No problem, just reforge some of it away and this new item is a go. Haste is not your stat but this item has it? No problem, just reforge some of it away and its still a decent item for your class! Kinda, but that didn't really happen. It just made it a one-stop optimize shop. I don't like the removal of stuff like hit, dodge or expertise, as it seems like it dumbs down the gear, but reforging was a pretty bad solution as well (as was the system up to Cata, when you just required higher math to solve a knapsack-like problem where you wanted the highest value for other stuff (+dmg, haste, crit, mastery, whatever) while still keeping you at the hit cap. I guess removing that stuff is probably the best thing, as it was badly designed that you desperately needed hit up to a certain number, after which it was entirely worthless (same for expertise). Spell damage, crit, haste and mastery have pretty complicated plots for what is better when, but most of the time if you pick up something with bigger numbers in the stats that you need, it is good. Hit was just a mess in that way: it was generally awesome, but you had to have lots of backup gear to be able to mix and match so you weren't "wasting" points on hit over the cap (although gems worked decently at fixing that). EDIT: I should probably mention that my experience in raiding stopped pretty early in Cata, so if this was all changed in MoP, ignore me!
I liked the puzzle aspect of items. Maybe I'm weird, but I think it's fun to have to do research and to have multiple item sets around for contingency purposes. Gearing strategy is quite interesting, since there are so many factors to keep in mind.
Reforging I don't think was interesting, since it wasn't a real choice, you'd just turn a weaker stat into a better stat. But maybe it was acceptable to allow you to quickly fix stuff like hit/expertise.
And meh, I actually quit WoW to play Starcraft 2, but I loathe SC2 so much these days that I'm considering playing WoW again. o,.,o It's annoying, I felt like I would quit WoW and move on with my life (and felt annoyed at "wasting my life"), but nowadays I feel so nostalgic towards playing WoW back during 2006-2007. I'd honestly resubscribe if they would reset everything back to Burning Crusade so that I would have to level from 60 to 70 again together with my in-game friends (that I never talk to anymore ;_;;;; )
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On November 13 2013 21:51 Grumbels wrote:
I don't understand the point of the garrisons, the world is big enough that you can always find a place of your own if you want to.
I would say this is a throwback to Warcraft 1/2/3. Building up your town, hiring workers, etc.
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I was just thinking, it'd be cool if you could seamlessly challenge someone in wow to a game of hearthstone in-game. I'd be challenging folks all day.
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On November 14 2013 03:13 HackBenjamin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2013 21:51 Grumbels wrote:
I don't understand the point of the garrisons, the world is big enough that you can always find a place of your own if you want to. I would say this is a throwback to Warcraft 1/2/3. Building up your town, hiring workers, etc.
I don't want to make friends, I want to be a lonely adventurer.
On November 14 2013 03:15 farvacola wrote:
I was just thinking, it'd be cool if you could seamlessly challenge someone in wow to a game of hearthstone in-game. I'd be challenging folks all day.
I've been suggesting for years that they should add all sorts of board games to the various taverns in the game. I would love for there to be a chess set in some bar in Stormwind where you could do money matches and challenge people.
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Omg that's an awesome idea.
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On November 14 2013 03:17 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2013 03:13 HackBenjamin wrote:On November 13 2013 21:51 Grumbels wrote:
I don't understand the point of the garrisons, the world is big enough that you can always find a place of your own if you want to. I would say this is a throwback to Warcraft 1/2/3. Building up your town, hiring workers, etc. I don't want to make friends, I want to be a lonely adventurer. Show nested quote +On November 14 2013 03:15 farvacola wrote:
I was just thinking, it'd be cool if you could seamlessly challenge someone in wow to a game of hearthstone in-game. I'd be challenging folks all day. I've been suggesting for years that they should add all sorts of board games to the various taverns in the game. I would love for there to be a chess set in some bar in Stormwind where you could do money matches and challenge people.
People have been clamouring for player housing since the dawn of WoW. They finally put it in there and (other) people complain that there's no point.
I like the idea of player housing. I always felt the idea of building something for the sake of building it was a pointless money sink, but the way Blizzard is doing it: you will actually feel like a powerful guy, a lord of the land, with minions coming to join you, and look to you for protection. So far all that has happened is that you are a nameless champion. You go into Orgrimmar and see 1000s of other, equally powerful, nameless champions running around. It's a bit of the nature of the game, but I slayed Onyxia, Ragnaros, Illidan and Arthas (to name a few). You'd think I'd be a fucking legend by now. However, I still get treated as some random adventurer who will happily collect 20 bear hides for a quest giver in a random forest.
Garrisons look to give you more the feeling that you are, in fact, someone important in the world... even if it's in a phased/instanced zone.
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On November 13 2013 18:51 Dismay wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2013 18:03 HackBenjamin wrote:
I'll preface this with saying that I am a bit of a lore nerd. I think the expansion is going to be fun. Lots of cool new stuff (garrisons!), but the lore surrounding it is stupid.
Didn't we do this six or seven times already in the Caverns of Time? What's different about Garrosh going back and trying to change the timeline? How is he even able to do this? We know from Blizzcon that a traitor from the Bronze Dragonflight is helping Garrosh bend time. The Bronze Dragonflight, who also lost (most of?) their power after Deathwing, were charged with guarding the timeways on Azeroth, so how can he go back in time to pre-Dark Portal Draenor? More importantly, they mentioned that we are going into an "alternate timeline" that "branches off of ours" and it won't affect the present.. Well then, why the fuck do we care?
It won't affect us insomuch as our orcs will not stop being green and the events of our history will not change. However, it will have the very real affect of Garrosh's Iron Horde trying to poke its head into our world. If it helps, think of the branching timelines in Dragonball. In one everyone but Trunks is dead, in the other everyone's alive and Trunks never had to go back in time.
The Dark Portal was built, powered, and opened by the Gul'Dan, the warlocks of the Shadow Council, and Medivh, possessed by Sargeras. If the Orcs aren't dealing with demons, how are they going to make one and then just casually stroll through the Nether like they own it? We are apparently using the Dark Portal from our timeline to travel back. So where/how do we come out? Just materialize in the past? Then why bother with the Dark Portal?
If the orcs follow Garrosh, then they don't drink the blood and get chummy with demons. Therefore, they wouldn't get warlock magic, or be able to build a portal that crosses through the Twisting Nether,..
It just seems like a poor story..
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Italy12246 Posts
On November 14 2013 03:32 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2013 03:17 Grumbels wrote:On November 14 2013 03:13 HackBenjamin wrote:On November 13 2013 21:51 Grumbels wrote:
I don't understand the point of the garrisons, the world is big enough that you can always find a place of your own if you want to. I would say this is a throwback to Warcraft 1/2/3. Building up your town, hiring workers, etc. I don't want to make friends, I want to be a lonely adventurer. On November 14 2013 03:15 farvacola wrote:
I was just thinking, it'd be cool if you could seamlessly challenge someone in wow to a game of hearthstone in-game. I'd be challenging folks all day. I've been suggesting for years that they should add all sorts of board games to the various taverns in the game. I would love for there to be a chess set in some bar in Stormwind where you could do money matches and challenge people. People have been clamouring for player housing since the dawn of WoW. They finally put it in there and (other) people complain that there's no point. I like the idea of player housing. I always felt the idea of building something for the sake of building it was a pointless money sink, but the way Blizzard is doing it: you will actually feel like a powerful guy, a lord of the land, with minions coming to join you, and look to you for protection. So far all that has happened is that you are a nameless champion. You go into Orgrimmar and see 1000s of other, equally powerful, nameless champions running around. It's a bit of the nature of the game, but I slayed Onyxia, Ragnaros, Illidan and Arthas (to name a few). You'd think I'd be a fucking legend by now. However, I still get treated as some random adventurer who will happily collect 20 bear hides for a quest giver in a random forest. Garrisons look to give you more the feeling that you are, in fact, someone important in the world... even if it's in a phased/instanced zone.
Then again, your collecting skills of various hides is just as legendary as your accomplishments amirite xD
@poster above me: Garrosh and the other dood can still find some way to open the portal, have one powerful magic user on one side and another on the other. I mean it's a messy story, but if you want to you can justify pretty much anything.
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On November 14 2013 03:32 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2013 03:17 Grumbels wrote:On November 14 2013 03:13 HackBenjamin wrote:On November 13 2013 21:51 Grumbels wrote:
I don't understand the point of the garrisons, the world is big enough that you can always find a place of your own if you want to. I would say this is a throwback to Warcraft 1/2/3. Building up your town, hiring workers, etc. I don't want to make friends, I want to be a lonely adventurer. On November 14 2013 03:15 farvacola wrote:
I was just thinking, it'd be cool if you could seamlessly challenge someone in wow to a game of hearthstone in-game. I'd be challenging folks all day. I've been suggesting for years that they should add all sorts of board games to the various taverns in the game. I would love for there to be a chess set in some bar in Stormwind where you could do money matches and challenge people. People have been clamouring for player housing since the dawn of WoW. They finally put it in there and (other) people complain that there's no point. I like the idea of player housing. I always felt the idea of building something for the sake of building it was a pointless money sink, but the way Blizzard is doing it: you will actually feel like a powerful guy, a lord of the land, with minions coming to join you, and look to you for protection. So far all that has happened is that you are a nameless champion. You go into Orgrimmar and see 1000s of other, equally powerful, nameless champions running around. It's a bit of the nature of the game, but I slayed Onyxia, Ragnaros, Illidan and Arthas (to name a few). You'd think I'd be a fucking legend by now. However, I still get treated as some random adventurer who will happily collect 20 bear hides for a quest giver in a random forest. Garrisons look to give you more the feeling that you are, in fact, someone important in the world... even if it's in a phased/instanced zone.
I'm not complaining, I just don't like the idea of having minions. :o
And well, this might be related to some peculiar sort of psychology on my part, but I think that the player aggrandizing that Blizzard does is in bad taste. For instance, when you arrive on Northrend there are some npc's that will congratulate you on being incredibly awesome and legendary. I think that's silly and childish and that Blizzard should stay away from these things. I don't need my self-confidence boosted by npc's, thank you, I can find meaning in my own accomplishments just by myself. I think it's acceptable to form friendships with npc's and have them recognize you and thank you for something, but as a player you should generally be anonymous and never be famous.
Consider that in reality your character dies many times and you're personally tasked with killing every single enemy and accomplishing every single goal just by yourself. This breaks immersion once you draw attention to it, and I think that recognizing the player as an important hero does that. I tend to think that your accomplishments are your own, but that it shouldn't be reflect in-game in the lore, they're all just stories that you have a chance to participate in, but that aren't about you.
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United States24557 Posts
On November 14 2013 03:45 Grumbels wrote:
For instance, when you arrive on Northrend there are some npc's that will congratulate you on being incredibly awesome and legendary. I think that's silly and childish and that Blizzard should stay away from these things.
If you were on the team that took down Illidian, then I think it would be unnatural for NPCs to not comment that they are in the presence of greatness.
Yeah, your assertion that the player should always be anonymous seems to be to be a bit of a psychological peculiarity as you put it. In some games I'm sure it lends itself better than Wow.
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On November 14 2013 03:47 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2013 03:45 Grumbels wrote:
For instance, when you arrive on Northrend there are some npc's that will congratulate you on being incredibly awesome and legendary. I think that's silly and childish and that Blizzard should stay away from these things. If you were on the team that took down Illidian, then I think it would be unnatural for NPCs to not comment that they are in the presence of greatness. Yeah, your assertion that the player should always be anonymous seems to be to be a bit of a psychological peculiarity as you put it. In some games I'm sure it lends itself better than Wow.
Well, in Starcraft you are an important commander that follows the orders of some lore figures and that accomplishes many things. But I think it would be in bad taste if the story would start to talk about "this amazing commander that should be revered as a hero for accomplishing all those things", since you're just the player and you don't matter. These events don't happen because of you, it's just that the game gives you a chance to participate in them.
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On November 14 2013 03:47 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2013 03:45 Grumbels wrote:
For instance, when you arrive on Northrend there are some npc's that will congratulate you on being incredibly awesome and legendary. I think that's silly and childish and that Blizzard should stay away from these things. If you were on the team that took down Illidian, then I think it would be unnatural for NPCs to not comment that they are in the presence of greatness.
Yet for all the saving the world time after time, none of our perpetually inept NPC faction leaders actually care enough to think to ask what we think.
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