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Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne - Page 70

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sninja
Profile Joined July 2011
Poland207 Posts
July 28 2015 20:12 GMT
#1381
personally I think that the casters are doing an ok job so yeah, keep up the good work Neo and others
3point14
Profile Joined November 2011
Germany890 Posts
July 28 2015 21:44 GMT
#1382
i dont know what you guys could do better . as I said on readmore, I love that you talk about the scene and funny aspects of the players, and that you explain in detail whats important in the moment for the players. I like that you dont overdo the playbyplay, but get excited when there is action. You also bring in lots of charakter!
The top100 you did in German was ridicolously funny (like when you said: Sase is running out of units to run to the tavern (to revive his hero again and again).
The only caster I like to listen to more is Artosis, but Ill say it once again: you guys are just awesome!!
Clonester
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany2808 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-29 11:29:30
July 28 2015 22:57 GMT
#1383
On July 29 2015 04:00 B2W.Neo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 25 2015 02:35 Lucumo wrote:
On July 25 2015 00:26 3point14 wrote:
2nd day of european qualifier for WCA
http://www.readmore.de/livestreams/3721-wca-europe

Watched yesterday for a bit and am doing now. The casters aren't good though, they miss a lot of things.


hey guys, WCA WC3 commentator Neo here, created an account to reply ^^

Please, if you have any kind of advice, tell us!
We're always willing to get better


I like your english commentary pretty much. Still it stands for itself, that your german commentary is much better as you miss some words sometimes which brings you (I dont mean you personally, but the whole caster team), out of your flow.
Next is your observing: It is not on point sometimes: Warcraft with its long fights and often multi actions by both players (for example hero is harrasing, while units creep some smaller spots) and it is hard to show that all, but you have definitly some possibles to improve it, for example your minimap awarenes. People in chat have been a little upset when you missed this or that action.
Casting Style: I like that your style, what I would change: As your viewer numbers where arround 5-10 times larger then on normal Warcraft III streams, you could talk abit more about the current meta. As Warcraft has, like Starcraft its "downtime" at the beginning of the game, you could talk about whats are does and don'ts at the moment. Why are these heros played and these not, why does human usually fastexpand into towers into casters (against NE). But I dont know how other people see this point. Maybe other want to hear that armor stops dmg with percentage and that different types of armor and dmg. I dont know how much the WCA-Viewers where used to Warcraft.

And last point:
What happend to your Starcraft-Style Overlay? Does it only work with replays? Else please activate it. And on Gamescom you could move the 4:3 image on one side of the 16 : 9 sreen and use the rest of the screen for cams focussing on the players faces (or on your faces) and some extra info. You have the space due to Warcraft being 4:3, use it.
Bomber, Attacker, DD, SOMEBODY, NiKo, Nex, Spidii
RyanRushia
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2748 Posts
July 29 2015 10:41 GMT
#1384
I agree with the previous post regarding downtime in beginning of a match. Seems like the B2W group skips ahead until a hero is almost out, and starts from there. While I understand it's to keep the viewers interested, I have a few proposed discussion points that could be talked about while the early buildings are in production!

-Map intricacies (typical creep patterns, is there early harass/creep jack, fast expo, tower rush)
-race vs race meta (how Orc vs Ne would play out as opposed to a previously shown Ud vs Ne)
-how different opening builds dictate strategy (early shop vs late shop Orc and what it implies)
-meta strategies

Just some ideas!
I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free. | coL.Ryan | www.twitter.com/coL_RyanR
B2W.Neo
Profile Joined July 2015
287 Posts
July 30 2015 17:19 GMT
#1385
Thank you so much Closenester and RyanRushia!
there are some very good points, especially the "cast for noobs in the early stages". We discussed these things so many times that we forgot that there's new players out there :D

especially for a multi-game event, that is a thing we'll definitly do!

I started to work with a Thesaurus as well to get more diversity into my cast
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
July 30 2015 20:34 GMT
#1386
Beware the Thesaurus... too much of the same words is a minor issue, using a word incorrectly is far more noticeable.

For whatever it's worth I love the casts (having just discovered them due to this thread). Like a lot of folks, I never played multiplayer too seriously, and I've been fascinated to learn more about it.

But I would certainly appreciate a "cast for noobs" or basic intro to watching. My main thing is the strategy and pacing questions. For instance, I know that in Starcraft, that the strategic options are basically: expand, harass, attack, defend. I have some sense of what that means. So when I watch B2W and they're killing workers, or Human has 2 bases to Undead 1, I get what the situation is.

But I haven't quite figured out the other things that exist in WC3, like creeping or hero harass. When do you creep? How do you creep with multiple heroes? Other than the level 3 benchmark, what are you shooting for? And hero harass always seems like its really ineffective and the other players is way ahead... and then suddenly the two are even. What's actually going on then? How do production cycles work? Even sim city strats would be handy.

Anyway, mostly keep up the good work!
3point14
Profile Joined November 2011
Germany890 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-30 22:59:11
July 30 2015 22:42 GMT
#1387
For Training videos and explanation of "how to play Wc3":

check out https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbbnRdlHzfkBAbidyN8vLyQ Yaws' youtube channel. Yaws is one of the best europe players and one of B2Ws casters. he has done some guides on human.

also check out Itrainhum's channel and his ladder sessions. he explains what he's doing during his games.


"cast for noobs" : that reminds me of one quote on one of wtii's videos: "how can you be new to an old ass game?" :D
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
July 31 2015 02:06 GMT
#1388
On July 31 2015 07:42 3point14 wrote:
"cast for noobs" : that reminds me of one quote on one of wtii's videos: "how can you be new to an old ass game?" :D


Roughly the same way I'd be pretty clueless at a chariot race. Excited, but definitely a noob.
B2W.Neo
Profile Joined July 2015
287 Posts
July 31 2015 14:45 GMT
#1389
On July 31 2015 05:34 Yoav wrote:
Beware the Thesaurus... too much of the same words is a minor issue, using a word incorrectly is far more noticeable.


its a personal thesaurus, more like watching TI5 and writing down lines i can use. but thanks =)
Amarok
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia2003 Posts
July 31 2015 16:28 GMT
#1390
I love the b2w casts. Reckon they're fantastic. My feedback would be that it'd be great to see best of X sets in a single vod but I'm not sure if others would like this feature. For me it would make the sets easier to dl/manage.

Keep up the good work though.
Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity
JieXian
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Malaysia4677 Posts
July 31 2015 18:03 GMT
#1391
any recommended games from vods?
Please send me a PM of any song you like that I most probably never heard of! I am looking for people to chat about writing and producing music | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noD-bsOcxuU |
B2W.Neo
Profile Joined July 2015
287 Posts
August 01 2015 16:49 GMT
#1392
On August 01 2015 03:03 JieXian wrote:
any recommended games from vods?


http://www.wca-europe.com/en/vods/27327-wc3-wca-eu-pro-qualifier-group-a-rudan-vs-hawk-semifinal
Game 3 of this series is just crazy

btw schedule is out:
https://twitter.com/WCAEurope/status/627513502018748416/photo/1
Amarok
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia2003 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-05 00:15:42
August 04 2015 05:49 GMT
#1393
On August 01 2015 03:03 JieXian wrote:
any recommended games from vods?


Cash/Foggy was a pretty good series too.

+ Show Spoiler +
Potent cheese in G1, quality comeback in G2.


EDIT: Also Nicker/Cooper was pretty good.
Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity
3point14
Profile Joined November 2011
Germany890 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-05 22:17:50
August 05 2015 22:14 GMT
#1394
there were some games today: Warchief.rich- HLA, Warchief.rich-Rudan, HLA-Rudan.
2nd game of HLA vs Rudan was so sick, HLA as Nightelf. Today he became my favorite Wc3 player ever , his play is something else!
games will be uploaded on youtube soon I guess.
tomorrow there will be more

btw: Rudan is like Stephano, doesnt play a game for 2 weeks, beats top players anyways
Amarok
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia2003 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-07 03:05:31
August 06 2015 21:44 GMT
#1395
So the WCA Europe youtube account appears to be banned for some reason. Anyone know anything about that?

Edit: Never mind it appears to be back.
Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
August 07 2015 01:02 GMT
#1396
So I've been working of a Warcraft 4 concept. Kinda curious what my TL peeps thought about what I have so far. Obviously, this is very much just for fun, unless I find myself with a ton of time to learn the SC2 mapeditor really well.

I was thinking about four factions as Alliance, Horde, Demon/Undead/Legion, and Old Gods (probably under the name "Faceless," "Forgotten" or something like that.)

-Alliance would be a hybrid civilization with the option to go either WC3 human (eco, defensive) and NElf (mobile, stealthy, aggressive) and tech switch as necessary.
-Horde would reflect the diversity of its consituents and a focus on heroes, with a variety of spellcasters empowering its heroes, protected by a frontline of versitile grunts.
-Demon would feature both undead troops (weak, numerous, combat troops, produced on the move by necromancers, stronger if made from fresh corpses in battle) and demons (stronger, generally with abilities, summoned at a demon gate at base). Teleportation and portals feature prominently to offset generally slower troops.
-Forgotten would have lower-level mur'ghul and naga and higher level faceless, insects, and ultimately manifestations of the Old Gods. Naga troops would spawn from eggs in waves, Zerg style, allowing quick remaxing. Generally quicker troops, and using powerful, base-controlled global strategic spells. Heroes can be sacrificed after a certain level to summon an Old God avatar.

All the factions would have multiple "skins" you could earn or purchase... think WC1, 2, and 3 skins as well as racial skins (all Troll Horde faction, or High Elf Alliance), and maybe skins for specific distinctive groups like Scarlet Crusade (Alliance skin) Twilights Hammer (Horde skin), the Forsaken (Demon skin), the Illidari (Forgotten skin). Ideally, you could mix and match at least racial skins to be able to alter the races of grunts or archers or whoever.

I've done more complete sketches of Alliance and Horde, and will move on to the others soon. For now, here's a more complete sketch of the Alliance faction.

Alliance
+ Show Spoiler +
Unusually, the Alliance has two tier 1 production structures, which remain the primary production structures throughout the game. One is the Barracks, which allows the Alliance to focus on defense and economy, while the other is the Lodge, which shifts the focus to stealth, aggression, and burst damage. Knowing which to focus on at different points in the game will help to define Alliance stategy.

Building Tree:
Town Hall
....Altar: Paladin (str), Archmage (int), Huntress (agi), Keeper (int)
....Barracks: Footman, Priest (requires Sanctum), Mortar Team (requires Workshop)
....Lodge: Archer, Druid of the Claw (Bear form only until Keep tech), Druid of the Talon (Requires Aviary)
Keep
....Sanctum: Sorceress, <Upgrades for Priest, Claw, Talon, Sorc, Spy>, <mana upgrades>
....Workshop: Flying Machine, <Upgrades for Militia, Footman, Mortar Team, Archer, Emissary>, <armor upgrades>
....Aviary: Gryphon Rider (require Barracks), Faerie Dragon (requires Lodge) <Upgrades for gryphons, dragons, flying machines>, <speed upgrades>
Castle
....Embassy: Emissary, Infiltrator, <Hero Upgrades>, <Upgrade sharing between Lodge/Barracks units>

The Barracks starts with the ability to produce Footmen, cheap high-armor soldiers, who serve as the Alliance's primary defensive troops.
-At Tier 2, the Alliance can add on a Sanctum, which allows Priests to be trained at the barracks to heal and buff allied units. The Sanctum itself can build Sorceresses, who slow enemies and can grant invisibility to allies.
-Adding on a Workshop at tier 2 allows Mortars to be built at the barracks, granting AoE damage against troops and siege damage against structures. Workshops can also build Flying machines, a cheap anti-air flier.
-The Paladin goes well with Footman armies as a melee healer that slows down the fight with heals, the divine shield ult, and by adding a % to the armor of nearby units and can do significant damage over time with Consecration.
-The Archmage similarly shines over longer fights with Blizzard, and Brilliance Aura (which synergizes well with Priests and Sorceresses). The Archmage's mass teleportation ability helps less mobile barracks armies defend all vulnerable areas.

The Lodge starts with the ability to produce Archers and Druids of the Claw in Bear form. Archers have a limited number of powerful arrows that regenerate slowly over time and can go into stealth when stationary and not attacking, making them ideal for hit and run attacks.
-Claws start in Bear form, a powerful melee damage dealer with a charge ability. At Keep tech, they gain the ability to transform into casters with a AoE damage boost and an interuptible HoT.
-Building an Aviary at tier 2 allows for Talons to be built, which can transform into ravens for quick flight and otherwise debuff enemies and cyclone them temporarily out of the fight. The Aviary can also (if a barracks also exists) build Gryphon Riders, expensive, tough, and versitile fliers that momentarily stun targets they hit and deal heavy siege damage. If a lodge exists, the Aviary can build Faerie dragons: evasive fliers with anti-magic abilities.
-The Huntress hero serves as an anti-hero sniper, with powerful ranged autoattacks and buffs for itself and ranged allies like Archers or casters. The ability to stealth makes it a potent ambusher as well.
-The Keeper summons Treants to tank damage (potentially allowing the Alliance to build fewer Bears), can heal allies in an area, and can root enemies, but runs out of mana quickly. Its key purpose is helping an Alliance player to choose which engagements they wish to fight.

The Embassy is a Castle-tech building that builds specialized units and helps unify the two tech branches.
-The Emissary will not be targeted by Neutral creeps and can, if allowed to finish a channel, convert nearby enemy or neutral units to your side (though player-units will eventuall revert to their original owner). It can also be expended to convert a Lodge to a barracks and visa versa.
-The Infiltrator is a stealthed assassin who moves slowly and attacks with devestating power once every 10s.
-The Embassy Contains hero upgrades and can make many barracks and lodge upgrades apply to units built at the other structure. It also allows Footmen to upgrade to Knights, which move faster and turn into Footmen instead of dying when their HP runs out.

The simple route with the Alliance is to either rush with Lodge units or expand behind Barracks units and eventually add Lodge units on to secure the win. But more complicated strategies are also possible. For instance, a player might go caster-heavy with an Archmage and various Druids and a Keeper to deal powerful hit and run harassment damage, teleporting out when necessary. Or it might use a Huntress to solo harass while building up an economy and defending wtih Footmen. Or perhaps a Barracks defense rushing to Aviary Tech and using Gryphons to surprise a ground-focused enemy. Maybe adapting to an enemy flier-heavy army on barracks tech by using a Huntress and Priests in shadowform. You get the idea.
Spaylz
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Japan1743 Posts
August 07 2015 05:15 GMT
#1397
Glad to see this thread is active as ever. Really happy I created it, haha

Currently watching the game series recommended by Neo (Hawk vs. Rudan). Good stuff, didn't know Blood Mage was in trend now. Love that hero.

Let's see what the series is all about!
I like words.
Jimmy Raynor
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
902 Posts
August 07 2015 05:53 GMT
#1398
Its amazing how WC3 is still the main source for WoW lore and hype building. The new expansion has a lot of wc3 throwbacks in the cinematics (as warlords of draenor had) as well as Illidan/Maiev/Khadgar(Medivh) running around warning king Varian (Terenas) about the invasion. After so many years wc3 still continues to be one of the main sources of inspiration for WoW. Isn't it obvious that it is about time for WC IV, I don't think they can continue making up expansions based on wc3 stuff forever (or just repeating the same storylines)
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
August 07 2015 06:45 GMT
#1399
Very much agreed.

WC3 story spoilers for anyone born yesterday or living under a rock:
+ Show Spoiler +

I came to WC3 without any knowledge of the lore at all. Stepped into a fantasy/Tolkien universe, and felt, "Okay, I know my way around." But then the Orcs start showing their complexity, the human Hero goes to the dark side. I'm like, cool, getting dark. Then the fucking High Elves get destroyed. The human kingdom gets scattered, with only a handful of survivors fleeing for parts unknown. And suddenly I'm in love with this story. It's Tolkien if Boromir got the ring, killed the Mouth of Sauron then took over Mordor's armies and trashed Gondor and Rivendell. The beautifully constructed universe gets introduced to you... then shattered into a million pieces.

It was epic.

The orcs kill the Night Elf deity, free themselves from Demon corruption, and make peace with the humans, all in one campaign. Then Sauron invades fucking Valinor. The Night Elves have three fascinating characters, who all fight for their own way to make everything work. Eventually, they give up immortality to save their world.

And that was the first half.

TFT saw new factions forming, though I wish WoW had followed up on these more than it did. The age-old alliance of Elves and Men shatters, and the now-fallen High Elves join up with the Naga (fallen Night Elves) and the Draenei (or at least a faction that WoW tells us is fallen as well) to serve the fallen Illidan. The Night Elves start to divide into factions between Tyrande and Maiev with Malf trying to hold things together. The Undead split into three groups. And in the bonus campaign the Horde begins to reform as tensions with the Alliance begin again to arise...


Man, that was an awesome game. WC4 would really have to tear the world apart and put it back together again to match up to that.
3point14
Profile Joined November 2011
Germany890 Posts
August 08 2015 13:04 GMT
#1400
god, that last game of Rudan vs HLA was soo intense, especially in the beginning.
seems really hard to calculate with and against ghouls
http://www.twitch.tv/wcaeurope/v/10137413
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