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Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne - Page 137
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B2W.Neo
287 Posts
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/warcraft/Terenas_Stand/Details_(LV_Version) | ||
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B2W.Neo
287 Posts
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Garrl
Scotland1982 Posts
I really can't imagine if BW still used Blizzard maps what the meta would look like. | ||
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mrwhite-
55 Posts
Australia / New Zealand: https://play.eslgaming.com/warcraft/global/wc3/open/acs-2017-anz-qualifier/ Brazil: https://play.eslgaming.com/warcraft/global/wc3/open/acs-2017-brazil-qualifier/ Latin America: https://play.eslgaming.com/warcraft/global/wc3/open/acs-2017-latam-qualifier/ North America: https://play.eslgaming.com/warcraft/global/wc3/open/acs-2017-na-qualifer/ | ||
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Mafe
Germany5966 Posts
On August 02 2017 02:53 Garrl wrote: question: why does the WC3 community still use blizzard maps? Surely for a modern, evolved meta, more balanced maps can be made. I really can't imagine if BW still used Blizzard maps what the meta would look like. Well from my impression there are several points to this: -First of all, creating a map for wc3 is way more challenging than for bw. Maybe some broodwar mapmakers will disagree, but in general to create a wc3 map, you have to invest hours if not days into making the map look acceptable (at least that's what I did), whereas with the bw map editor I felt the right look was created automatically on the fly. The process of creating a melee from scratch took me usually several weeks, and maybe ~20ish total hours. And this is after I learned the map editor basics, which is a whole lot of work in itself. So the entrance barrier to make wc3 maps is huge. For reference, here is the latest map I made: https://www.hiveworkshop.com/threads/crawling-shallows.292588/ -Your impression that the wc3 community uses" blizzard" maps is only partially right. Actually most current maps were user created maps that were then added by blizzard to the mappool. While I only found a source for TM (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/warcraft/2003_Multiplayer_Map_Contest) so far, I remember seeing a korean (?) sunken-ruins version of TR (though it may have been an adaption of the original). Iirc SV was introduced by wc3l/esl, MV was another map contest winner (http://www.gosugamers.net/warcraft3/news/8492-pgl-to-use-blizzard-map-contest-maps). I think even EI was a map contest winner, at lest im 99% it was introduced with some patch some after TFT was released. -With, for many years, bnet ladder being the main place where people played wc3, how could a new map establish itself? Basically, if it wasnt in the bnet mappool a map was not relevant unless it was heavily pushed in leagues/tournaments. Blizzard rarely changed the mappool, and there was nothing like iccup which offered its own ladder and was the main way of playing bw and regularly changed maps (is that correct? never been that involved in the bw scene) until the arrival of w3arena, which to its credit has some fresher maps in its pool. -Unfortunately, the most vocal reaction of the community towards new maps has exclusively been negative whenever there was a new map. As much as I like neo and remo, I seem to remember that a few months back they where ridiculing a tournament for including MV (and another one for including GW or LT, which at least I could understand yet still might disagree)..... which in my opinion (and admittedly, theyve been much more positive about MV recently) was not justified, and frankly what message does it tell tournament organizers if even such minor changes (especially if players might even be allowed to veto maps) is met with such a reaction? And the community has reacted similar most of the times. Yes, some new maps in early TFT times where ridiculous. But then there were also some (korean) maps which I remember fondly, such as maelstrom, nighthaven or silvermoon, which imho were discarded too fast when the small problems couldve been fixed instead. At least the reactions to the new TS version have been more reasonable. | ||
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mrwhite-
55 Posts
It is probably the most balanced pool of maps, we have ever seen, although some Undead players might disagree on that. Brood War maps are like Warcraft 3 maps - a very delicate process to do. You have to balance both item drops, neutral buildings, NPC's, attack routes, base terrain/layout, tavern placement, gold mines, critters and many other things. It is impossible to cater a map, that is balanced for all 4 races. The latest community-created maps that were introduced have been awful (The Great Wall, Deserted Isles) and I don't know if the map makers have departed the scene. I think Blizzard wants to change up the creep routes of all games, since the current meta seems to be very fixed when it comes to gaining control of specific creeps. I dont think Plunder Isles is a good map anymore, even though it has a lot of history - it reminds me of a poor-man's Melting Valley. I hope, there still are good map makers in China or Korea that can help Blizzard out. Let us see though, it is easy to theorise about the changes in items without having it tested. | ||
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B2W.Neo
287 Posts
On August 02 2017 16:58 Mafe wrote: -Unfortunately, the most vocal reaction of the community towards new maps has exclusively been negative whenever there was a new map. As much as I like neo and remo, I seem to remember that a few months back they where ridiculing a tournament for including MV (and another one for including GW or LT, which at least I could understand yet still might disagree)..... which in my opinion (and admittedly, theyve been much more positive about MV recently) was not justified, and frankly what message does it tell tournament organizers if even such minor changes (especially if players might even be allowed to veto maps) is met with such a reaction? excellent post and a very good description of whats going on. MV though is SUPER imbalanced towards Humans and Orcs and its ridiculous to implement this map. Similar case for GW and LT, plus they're way too big for 1v1 in general. On the other hand, we were very supportive of LR, AZ and NI (eventhough the redspots suck here). We're all hoping for new and changed maps, I hope you could see that when I presented TS_LV for you past thursday  | ||
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Weavel
Finland9224 Posts
Thinking about it human is probably the race that holds back map design since we need that expansion. | ||
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B2W.Neo
287 Posts
Comments on changed locations, creepspots, itemdrops, Pros&Cons, Risks etc | ||
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Tchado
Jordan1831 Posts
they did alot of edits and a shit ton of maps in all game mods ! THIS IS WHAT I WAS WAITING FOR ! https://us.battle.net/forums/en/bnet/12790218/ | ||
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Clonester
Germany2808 Posts
When they push these maps on Netease, I gonna be even more happier, because that means the pro scene will have to use them too and we see fresh and new gameplay on new maps. Even when these maps might turn out to not be as polished as the current maps, they can still be patched and worked arround for the future. At the moment, it is good news. | ||
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Mafe
Germany5966 Posts
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Tchado
Jordan1831 Posts
Also bringing back Road To Stratholme ! I fucking love that map ! | ||
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B2W.Neo
287 Posts
On August 03 2017 22:39 Tchado wrote: I just realized something from the comments , are these the absolute new ladder maps or are they an addition to the existing ones (excluding the edited maps, I assume they will go with the LV versions) ? still no answer from blizz in the comments but if you look at the 1v1 map pool there is no twisted meadows , echo isles , turtle rock.... are they out of the pool ? this might be the greatest thing to ever happen honestly , love those maps but its time for a change....im inclined to believe they are out of the pool because the other maps that are still in have "this is an original map" underneath it. Also bringing back Road To Stratholme ! I fucking love that map ! the pool you see is the pool you get. no EI, SV, TR, TM etc also no addition of AZ, LR or NI.... | ||
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killer1nz
New Zealand164 Posts
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Spaylz
Japan1743 Posts
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Amarok
Australia2003 Posts
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Mafe
Germany5966 Posts
On August 02 2017 19:54 B2W.Neo wrote: excellent post and a very good description of whats going on. MV though is SUPER imbalanced towards Humans and Orcs and its ridiculous to implement this map. Similar case for GW and LT, plus they're way too big for 1v1 in general. On the other hand, we were very supportive of LR, AZ and NI (eventhough the redspots suck here). We're all hoping for new and changed maps, I hope you could see that when I presented TS_LV for you past thursday I played mostly UD lately and never perceived MV to be unfavorable, but after looking up the stats you are of course absolutely right that there is a balance problem. Let's see how the new (or more precisely: recycled) maps play out. I like the fact that so far, people mostly critcize that maps like TM, TR are gone, and the hate on the new maps seems to be within reasonable limits. I also agree that there was no need to completely remove all current maps (except MV). Why cant we have a 1on1 mappool with 20-25 maps for ladder? | ||
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B2W.Neo
287 Posts
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kfieef1kqpnmmdq/Warcraft3 - Patch 129 PTR Maps.rar?dl=0 | ||
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CptMarvel
France236 Posts
On August 02 2017 02:53 Garrl wrote: question: why does the WC3 community still use blizzard maps? Surely for a modern, evolved meta, more balanced maps can be made. I really can't imagine if BW still used Blizzard maps what the meta would look like. Well, the RoC community made plenty of custom maps, some of which became extremely popular in tours because of how balanced/plain fun they were. TFT uses a significant amount of custom maps too (edit : as was explained above, didn't read hhh), but defaults are better designed overall, and generally need less tweaking. | ||
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