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On April 14 2016 04:45 ref4 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2016 04:38 Plansix wrote:I am sure Blizzard has a very clear idea how many people they are losing and business expectations for WoW. These vannila WoW are just an IP issue they need to address because its a protect it or lose it system. On April 14 2016 04:37 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:33 Gorsameth wrote:On April 14 2016 04:19 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:02 Disengaged wrote:On April 14 2016 03:58 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 02:28 Godwrath wrote:
Thanks to blizzard's advertisment, i am playing vanilla on Kronos, it seems like a good server which got a good amount of nostalrius players. inb4 Big Brother Blizzard closes down Kronos too God forbid they do what is within their god given rights as IP owners. Blizzard has every right to do whatever the hell they want with their IP like shutting down private servers or dig a deeper grave for WoW with each expansion. That being said, maybe they should have some humility and learn why they're bleeding subs left and right and there is such a strong vanilla Wow underground community. I mean they probably know the reason but they just have their heads way too high in their asses to address the problem. I especially love that they will stop reporting their sub # after their last quarterly report. Panic Mode Panic Mode! Quick, let's shut down Nostralius that will bring all that 150K users back to our retail servers! "all those 150k" Im sorry but no the Vannila WoW unground community is not important to blizzard. Your forgetting that this big vanilla server is ~3% of WoW's actual population. They are vocal and determined yes but their not a strong community that Blizzard needs to be listening to. lose 150k here, lose 150k there, soon you'll lose 5-6 millions  Blizzard is well aware that WoW will someday need to shut down or go free to play. Nothing lasts forever. That is true, but those 5-6 millions were lost all in one expansion, as opposed to over several. If this doesn't say WoD is all hype and no substance I don't know what is. Largest cliff-dive of playerbase in any game's history probably ever.
the important fact is that this proves there can still be hype about the game. I bet there are 10-20 million people in the world that would play the game again if it somehow reached a quality close to Vanilla/TBC.
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On April 14 2016 04:48 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2016 04:45 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:38 Plansix wrote:I am sure Blizzard has a very clear idea how many people they are losing and business expectations for WoW. These vannila WoW are just an IP issue they need to address because its a protect it or lose it system. On April 14 2016 04:37 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:33 Gorsameth wrote:On April 14 2016 04:19 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:02 Disengaged wrote:On April 14 2016 03:58 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 02:28 Godwrath wrote:
Thanks to blizzard's advertisment, i am playing vanilla on Kronos, it seems like a good server which got a good amount of nostalrius players. inb4 Big Brother Blizzard closes down Kronos too God forbid they do what is within their god given rights as IP owners. Blizzard has every right to do whatever the hell they want with their IP like shutting down private servers or dig a deeper grave for WoW with each expansion. That being said, maybe they should have some humility and learn why they're bleeding subs left and right and there is such a strong vanilla Wow underground community. I mean they probably know the reason but they just have their heads way too high in their asses to address the problem. I especially love that they will stop reporting their sub # after their last quarterly report. Panic Mode Panic Mode! Quick, let's shut down Nostralius that will bring all that 150K users back to our retail servers! "all those 150k" Im sorry but no the Vannila WoW unground community is not important to blizzard. Your forgetting that this big vanilla server is ~3% of WoW's actual population. They are vocal and determined yes but their not a strong community that Blizzard needs to be listening to. lose 150k here, lose 150k there, soon you'll lose 5-6 millions Blizzard is well aware that WoW will someday need to shut down or go free to play. Nothing lasts forever. That is true, but those 5-6 millions were lost all in one expansion, as opposed to over several. If this doesn't say WoD is all hype and no substance I don't know what is. Largest cliff-dive of playerbase in any game's history probably ever. Since WoW is one of the most popular long running video games in the world, its not that huge a deal. Once again, WoW has far exceeded its lifespan. They are just going to keep on trucking. Even if WoW ends 2 years from now, it will be a legend in the game industry for the next 30 years.
You miss the point. Do you actually think Blizzard doesn't care about losing ~100 million dollars A MONTH just because it has already made 1000 times more profit than expected? It still has a potential player base that is 2-3 times the current amount. And they sure as hell DO care about that. that's why they release new expansions every year and try to fix the game they ruined, but making it progressively worse because they refuse to listen to the community.
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United States4209 Posts
On April 14 2016 04:45 ref4 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2016 04:38 Plansix wrote:I am sure Blizzard has a very clear idea how many people they are losing and business expectations for WoW. These vannila WoW are just an IP issue they need to address because its a protect it or lose it system. On April 14 2016 04:37 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:33 Gorsameth wrote:On April 14 2016 04:19 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:02 Disengaged wrote:On April 14 2016 03:58 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 02:28 Godwrath wrote:
Thanks to blizzard's advertisment, i am playing vanilla on Kronos, it seems like a good server which got a good amount of nostalrius players. inb4 Big Brother Blizzard closes down Kronos too God forbid they do what is within their god given rights as IP owners. Blizzard has every right to do whatever the hell they want with their IP like shutting down private servers or dig a deeper grave for WoW with each expansion. That being said, maybe they should have some humility and learn why they're bleeding subs left and right and there is such a strong vanilla Wow underground community. I mean they probably know the reason but they just have their heads way too high in their asses to address the problem. I especially love that they will stop reporting their sub # after their last quarterly report. Panic Mode Panic Mode! Quick, let's shut down Nostralius that will bring all that 150K users back to our retail servers! "all those 150k" Im sorry but no the Vannila WoW unground community is not important to blizzard. Your forgetting that this big vanilla server is ~3% of WoW's actual population. They are vocal and determined yes but their not a strong community that Blizzard needs to be listening to. lose 150k here, lose 150k there, soon you'll lose 5-6 millions Blizzard is well aware that WoW will someday need to shut down or go free to play. Nothing lasts forever. That is true, but those 5-6 millions were lost all in one expansion, as opposed to over several. If this doesn't say WoD is all hype and no substance I don't know what is. Largest cliff-dive of playerbase in any game's history probably ever.
IDK, this is a weird topic, because I'm uncertain if we're debating "Modern WoW" or "WoD"... its like no shit its the worst expansion ever, but does that necessarily mean it's forever this way ? WoD was amazing for the questing experience and that's pretty much all it offered.
I'm not sure if im making excuses or whathave you, but its not even a discussion of Modern WoW vs Classic WoW at this point, its just everyone beating on the agreed upon worst expansion.
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On April 14 2016 04:45 ref4 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2016 04:38 Plansix wrote:I am sure Blizzard has a very clear idea how many people they are losing and business expectations for WoW. These vannila WoW are just an IP issue they need to address because its a protect it or lose it system. On April 14 2016 04:37 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:33 Gorsameth wrote:On April 14 2016 04:19 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:02 Disengaged wrote:On April 14 2016 03:58 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 02:28 Godwrath wrote:
Thanks to blizzard's advertisment, i am playing vanilla on Kronos, it seems like a good server which got a good amount of nostalrius players. inb4 Big Brother Blizzard closes down Kronos too God forbid they do what is within their god given rights as IP owners. Blizzard has every right to do whatever the hell they want with their IP like shutting down private servers or dig a deeper grave for WoW with each expansion. That being said, maybe they should have some humility and learn why they're bleeding subs left and right and there is such a strong vanilla Wow underground community. I mean they probably know the reason but they just have their heads way too high in their asses to address the problem. I especially love that they will stop reporting their sub # after their last quarterly report. Panic Mode Panic Mode! Quick, let's shut down Nostralius that will bring all that 150K users back to our retail servers! "all those 150k" Im sorry but no the Vannila WoW unground community is not important to blizzard. Your forgetting that this big vanilla server is ~3% of WoW's actual population. They are vocal and determined yes but their not a strong community that Blizzard needs to be listening to. lose 150k here, lose 150k there, soon you'll lose 5-6 millions Blizzard is well aware that WoW will someday need to shut down or go free to play. Nothing lasts forever. That is true, but those 5-6 millions were lost all in one expansion, as opposed to over several. If this doesn't say WoD is all hype and no substance I don't know what is. Largest cliff-dive of playerbase in any game's history probably ever.
A huge spike happened at the start of WoD of people buying into the hype.
They then all left again when WoW was still the WoW they had left.
The rest of the sub loss is in line with the overall decline.
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On April 14 2016 04:53 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2016 04:48 Plansix wrote:On April 14 2016 04:45 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:38 Plansix wrote:I am sure Blizzard has a very clear idea how many people they are losing and business expectations for WoW. These vannila WoW are just an IP issue they need to address because its a protect it or lose it system. On April 14 2016 04:37 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:33 Gorsameth wrote:On April 14 2016 04:19 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:02 Disengaged wrote:On April 14 2016 03:58 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 02:28 Godwrath wrote:
Thanks to blizzard's advertisment, i am playing vanilla on Kronos, it seems like a good server which got a good amount of nostalrius players. inb4 Big Brother Blizzard closes down Kronos too God forbid they do what is within their god given rights as IP owners. Blizzard has every right to do whatever the hell they want with their IP like shutting down private servers or dig a deeper grave for WoW with each expansion. That being said, maybe they should have some humility and learn why they're bleeding subs left and right and there is such a strong vanilla Wow underground community. I mean they probably know the reason but they just have their heads way too high in their asses to address the problem. I especially love that they will stop reporting their sub # after their last quarterly report. Panic Mode Panic Mode! Quick, let's shut down Nostralius that will bring all that 150K users back to our retail servers! "all those 150k" Im sorry but no the Vannila WoW unground community is not important to blizzard. Your forgetting that this big vanilla server is ~3% of WoW's actual population. They are vocal and determined yes but their not a strong community that Blizzard needs to be listening to. lose 150k here, lose 150k there, soon you'll lose 5-6 millions Blizzard is well aware that WoW will someday need to shut down or go free to play. Nothing lasts forever. That is true, but those 5-6 millions were lost all in one expansion, as opposed to over several. If this doesn't say WoD is all hype and no substance I don't know what is. Largest cliff-dive of playerbase in any game's history probably ever. Since WoW is one of the most popular long running video games in the world, its not that huge a deal. Once again, WoW has far exceeded its lifespan. They are just going to keep on trucking. Even if WoW ends 2 years from now, it will be a legend in the game industry for the next 30 years. You miss the point. Do you actually think Blizzard doesn't care about losing ~100 million dollars A MONTH just because it has already made 1000 times more profit than expected? It still has a potential player base that is 2-3 times the current amount.
Based on what? Moon logic and dreams. Of course Blizzard is going to try to keep people playing and keep it interesting. These private servers are not going to change that. The conversion rate of people who are playing for free on these servers to those who would pay for a vanilla server is going to be comically low.
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On April 14 2016 04:54 lestye wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2016 04:45 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:38 Plansix wrote:I am sure Blizzard has a very clear idea how many people they are losing and business expectations for WoW. These vannila WoW are just an IP issue they need to address because its a protect it or lose it system. On April 14 2016 04:37 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:33 Gorsameth wrote:On April 14 2016 04:19 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:02 Disengaged wrote:On April 14 2016 03:58 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 02:28 Godwrath wrote:
Thanks to blizzard's advertisment, i am playing vanilla on Kronos, it seems like a good server which got a good amount of nostalrius players. inb4 Big Brother Blizzard closes down Kronos too God forbid they do what is within their god given rights as IP owners. Blizzard has every right to do whatever the hell they want with their IP like shutting down private servers or dig a deeper grave for WoW with each expansion. That being said, maybe they should have some humility and learn why they're bleeding subs left and right and there is such a strong vanilla Wow underground community. I mean they probably know the reason but they just have their heads way too high in their asses to address the problem. I especially love that they will stop reporting their sub # after their last quarterly report. Panic Mode Panic Mode! Quick, let's shut down Nostralius that will bring all that 150K users back to our retail servers! "all those 150k" Im sorry but no the Vannila WoW unground community is not important to blizzard. Your forgetting that this big vanilla server is ~3% of WoW's actual population. They are vocal and determined yes but their not a strong community that Blizzard needs to be listening to. lose 150k here, lose 150k there, soon you'll lose 5-6 millions Blizzard is well aware that WoW will someday need to shut down or go free to play. Nothing lasts forever. That is true, but those 5-6 millions were lost all in one expansion, as opposed to over several. If this doesn't say WoD is all hype and no substance I don't know what is. Largest cliff-dive of playerbase in any game's history probably ever. IDK, this is a weird topic, because I'm uncertain if we're debating "Modern WoW" or "WoD"... its like no shit its the worst expansion ever, but does that necessarily mean it's forever this way ? WoD was amazing for the questing experience and that's pretty much all it offered. I'm not sure if im making excuses or whathave you, but its not even a discussion of Modern WoW vs Classic WoW at this point, its just everyone beating on the agreed upon worst expansion.
Isn't Modern WoW basically the latest expansion? So Modern WoW 2016 = WoD, i.e., the worst state WoW has ever been in.
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United States4209 Posts
On April 14 2016 04:55 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2016 04:45 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:38 Plansix wrote:I am sure Blizzard has a very clear idea how many people they are losing and business expectations for WoW. These vannila WoW are just an IP issue they need to address because its a protect it or lose it system. On April 14 2016 04:37 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:33 Gorsameth wrote:On April 14 2016 04:19 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:02 Disengaged wrote:On April 14 2016 03:58 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 02:28 Godwrath wrote:
Thanks to blizzard's advertisment, i am playing vanilla on Kronos, it seems like a good server which got a good amount of nostalrius players. inb4 Big Brother Blizzard closes down Kronos too God forbid they do what is within their god given rights as IP owners. Blizzard has every right to do whatever the hell they want with their IP like shutting down private servers or dig a deeper grave for WoW with each expansion. That being said, maybe they should have some humility and learn why they're bleeding subs left and right and there is such a strong vanilla Wow underground community. I mean they probably know the reason but they just have their heads way too high in their asses to address the problem. I especially love that they will stop reporting their sub # after their last quarterly report. Panic Mode Panic Mode! Quick, let's shut down Nostralius that will bring all that 150K users back to our retail servers! "all those 150k" Im sorry but no the Vannila WoW unground community is not important to blizzard. Your forgetting that this big vanilla server is ~3% of WoW's actual population. They are vocal and determined yes but their not a strong community that Blizzard needs to be listening to. lose 150k here, lose 150k there, soon you'll lose 5-6 millions Blizzard is well aware that WoW will someday need to shut down or go free to play. Nothing lasts forever. That is true, but those 5-6 millions were lost all in one expansion, as opposed to over several. If this doesn't say WoD is all hype and no substance I don't know what is. Largest cliff-dive of playerbase in any game's history probably ever. A huge spike happened at the start of WoD of people buying into the hype. They then all left again when WoW was still the WoW they had left. The rest of the sub loss is in line with the overall decline.
Yeah... I think at this point we're going to always expect a huge surge + decline at the expansion launch. That's just been every MMO in the last few years. Subs becoming a hard sell with how many games get free updates nowadays/how AAA games go super cheap. There's probably never going to be an expansion that surges and then grows after. I think thats more of an MMO problem than a WoW problem at this point. (Not saying that excuses how bad WoD is, just something to think about)
That's also something to keep in mind if you think WoW is going to die anytime soon... WoW expansions are super cheap to make and they often sell better than most AAA 60 dollar titles... they probably do amazing on expansion sales alone..
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United States4209 Posts
On April 14 2016 04:59 ref4 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2016 04:54 lestye wrote:On April 14 2016 04:45 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:38 Plansix wrote:I am sure Blizzard has a very clear idea how many people they are losing and business expectations for WoW. These vannila WoW are just an IP issue they need to address because its a protect it or lose it system. On April 14 2016 04:37 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:33 Gorsameth wrote:On April 14 2016 04:19 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:02 Disengaged wrote:On April 14 2016 03:58 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 02:28 Godwrath wrote:
Thanks to blizzard's advertisment, i am playing vanilla on Kronos, it seems like a good server which got a good amount of nostalrius players. inb4 Big Brother Blizzard closes down Kronos too God forbid they do what is within their god given rights as IP owners. Blizzard has every right to do whatever the hell they want with their IP like shutting down private servers or dig a deeper grave for WoW with each expansion. That being said, maybe they should have some humility and learn why they're bleeding subs left and right and there is such a strong vanilla Wow underground community. I mean they probably know the reason but they just have their heads way too high in their asses to address the problem. I especially love that they will stop reporting their sub # after their last quarterly report. Panic Mode Panic Mode! Quick, let's shut down Nostralius that will bring all that 150K users back to our retail servers! "all those 150k" Im sorry but no the Vannila WoW unground community is not important to blizzard. Your forgetting that this big vanilla server is ~3% of WoW's actual population. They are vocal and determined yes but their not a strong community that Blizzard needs to be listening to. lose 150k here, lose 150k there, soon you'll lose 5-6 millions Blizzard is well aware that WoW will someday need to shut down or go free to play. Nothing lasts forever. That is true, but those 5-6 millions were lost all in one expansion, as opposed to over several. If this doesn't say WoD is all hype and no substance I don't know what is. Largest cliff-dive of playerbase in any game's history probably ever. IDK, this is a weird topic, because I'm uncertain if we're debating "Modern WoW" or "WoD"... its like no shit its the worst expansion ever, but does that necessarily mean it's forever this way ? WoD was amazing for the questing experience and that's pretty much all it offered. I'm not sure if im making excuses or whathave you, but its not even a discussion of Modern WoW vs Classic WoW at this point, its just everyone beating on the agreed upon worst expansion. Isn't Modern WoW basically the latest expansion? So Modern WoW 2016 = WoD, i.e., the worst state WoW has ever been in.
Modern era, not necessarily present. I would say Modern WoW is Cata-Present. Arguably Wrath-present. That's when most of the features Classic wow players complain about got into the game. Those expansions have way more in common than say, Vanilla has with Wrath.
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On April 14 2016 04:38 Plansix wrote:I am sure Blizzard has a very clear idea how many people they are losing and business expectations for WoW. These vannila WoW are just an IP issue they need to address because its a protect it or lose it system. Show nested quote +On April 14 2016 04:37 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:33 Gorsameth wrote:On April 14 2016 04:19 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:02 Disengaged wrote:On April 14 2016 03:58 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 02:28 Godwrath wrote:
Thanks to blizzard's advertisment, i am playing vanilla on Kronos, it seems like a good server which got a good amount of nostalrius players. inb4 Big Brother Blizzard closes down Kronos too God forbid they do what is within their god given rights as IP owners. Blizzard has every right to do whatever the hell they want with their IP like shutting down private servers or dig a deeper grave for WoW with each expansion. That being said, maybe they should have some humility and learn why they're bleeding subs left and right and there is such a strong vanilla Wow underground community. I mean they probably know the reason but they just have their heads way too high in their asses to address the problem. I especially love that they will stop reporting their sub # after their last quarterly report. Panic Mode Panic Mode! Quick, let's shut down Nostralius that will bring all that 150K users back to our retail servers! "all those 150k" Im sorry but no the Vannila WoW unground community is not important to blizzard. Your forgetting that this big vanilla server is ~3% of WoW's actual population. They are vocal and determined yes but their not a strong community that Blizzard needs to be listening to. lose 150k here, lose 150k there, soon you'll lose 5-6 millions Blizzard is well aware that WoW will someday need to shut down or go free to play. Nothing lasts forever.
For anyone who's semi-invested into the game it's already "free to play". You can basically buy the game time with ingame money. It's really not hard to get the gold to support that if you invest 15-20hours/week and use the AH efficiently.
WoW will get free2play for real sometime soon imo, maybe we can get legacy servers then.
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On April 14 2016 04:56 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2016 04:53 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:On April 14 2016 04:48 Plansix wrote:On April 14 2016 04:45 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:38 Plansix wrote:I am sure Blizzard has a very clear idea how many people they are losing and business expectations for WoW. These vannila WoW are just an IP issue they need to address because its a protect it or lose it system. On April 14 2016 04:37 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:33 Gorsameth wrote:On April 14 2016 04:19 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:02 Disengaged wrote:On April 14 2016 03:58 ref4 wrote:
[quote]
inb4 Big Brother Blizzard closes down Kronos too God forbid they do what is within their god given rights as IP owners. Blizzard has every right to do whatever the hell they want with their IP like shutting down private servers or dig a deeper grave for WoW with each expansion. That being said, maybe they should have some humility and learn why they're bleeding subs left and right and there is such a strong vanilla Wow underground community. I mean they probably know the reason but they just have their heads way too high in their asses to address the problem. I especially love that they will stop reporting their sub # after their last quarterly report. Panic Mode Panic Mode! Quick, let's shut down Nostralius that will bring all that 150K users back to our retail servers! "all those 150k" Im sorry but no the Vannila WoW unground community is not important to blizzard. Your forgetting that this big vanilla server is ~3% of WoW's actual population. They are vocal and determined yes but their not a strong community that Blizzard needs to be listening to. lose 150k here, lose 150k there, soon you'll lose 5-6 millions Blizzard is well aware that WoW will someday need to shut down or go free to play. Nothing lasts forever. That is true, but those 5-6 millions were lost all in one expansion, as opposed to over several. If this doesn't say WoD is all hype and no substance I don't know what is. Largest cliff-dive of playerbase in any game's history probably ever. Since WoW is one of the most popular long running video games in the world, its not that huge a deal. Once again, WoW has far exceeded its lifespan. They are just going to keep on trucking. Even if WoW ends 2 years from now, it will be a legend in the game industry for the next 30 years. You miss the point. Do you actually think Blizzard doesn't care about losing ~100 million dollars A MONTH just because it has already made 1000 times more profit than expected? It still has a potential player base that is 2-3 times the current amount. Based on what? Moon logic and dreams. Of course Blizzard is going to try to keep people playing and keep it interesting. These private servers are not going to change that. The conversion rate of people who are playing for free on these servers to those who would pay for a vanilla server is going to be comically low.
Based on what? Based on the fact that subscriber numbers doubled close to the release of WoD. And that was before the expansion was released. Common sense dictates that there are several million players that would have subbed or resubbes based on positive reviews and/or recommendations from their friends IF the expansion had actually delivered.
Just think about that: hundrets of thousands of people prefer to play a 12 year old version of a game rather than the most recent one. So Instead of trying to fix their game, Blizzard goes ahead and slaps their hardcore fanbase in the face. Business is not all about present numbers. Launching Legacy servers would be positive publicity. It might lead to people resubbing for Legion, telling their friends about it, or to buiyng new Blizzard Games. Instead, they just made a few hundred thousand enemies.
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On April 14 2016 04:54 lestye wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2016 04:45 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:38 Plansix wrote:I am sure Blizzard has a very clear idea how many people they are losing and business expectations for WoW. These vannila WoW are just an IP issue they need to address because its a protect it or lose it system. On April 14 2016 04:37 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:33 Gorsameth wrote:On April 14 2016 04:19 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:02 Disengaged wrote:On April 14 2016 03:58 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 02:28 Godwrath wrote:
Thanks to blizzard's advertisment, i am playing vanilla on Kronos, it seems like a good server which got a good amount of nostalrius players. inb4 Big Brother Blizzard closes down Kronos too God forbid they do what is within their god given rights as IP owners. Blizzard has every right to do whatever the hell they want with their IP like shutting down private servers or dig a deeper grave for WoW with each expansion. That being said, maybe they should have some humility and learn why they're bleeding subs left and right and there is such a strong vanilla Wow underground community. I mean they probably know the reason but they just have their heads way too high in their asses to address the problem. I especially love that they will stop reporting their sub # after their last quarterly report. Panic Mode Panic Mode! Quick, let's shut down Nostralius that will bring all that 150K users back to our retail servers! "all those 150k" Im sorry but no the Vannila WoW unground community is not important to blizzard. Your forgetting that this big vanilla server is ~3% of WoW's actual population. They are vocal and determined yes but their not a strong community that Blizzard needs to be listening to. lose 150k here, lose 150k there, soon you'll lose 5-6 millions Blizzard is well aware that WoW will someday need to shut down or go free to play. Nothing lasts forever. That is true, but those 5-6 millions were lost all in one expansion, as opposed to over several. If this doesn't say WoD is all hype and no substance I don't know what is. Largest cliff-dive of playerbase in any game's history probably ever. IDK, this is a weird topic, because I'm uncertain if we're debating "Modern WoW" or "WoD"... its like no shit its the worst expansion ever, but does that necessarily mean it's forever this way ? WoD was amazing for the questing experience and that's pretty much all it offered. I'm not sure if im making excuses or whathave you, but its not even a discussion of Modern WoW vs Classic WoW at this point, its just everyone beating on the agreed upon worst expansion.
I've been hearing the latest expansion is the worst since BC (which is now apparently considered the best). I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that people have played the game for years. You get bored with it eventually.
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On April 14 2016 05:15 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2016 04:56 Plansix wrote:On April 14 2016 04:53 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:On April 14 2016 04:48 Plansix wrote:On April 14 2016 04:45 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:38 Plansix wrote:I am sure Blizzard has a very clear idea how many people they are losing and business expectations for WoW. These vannila WoW are just an IP issue they need to address because its a protect it or lose it system. On April 14 2016 04:37 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:33 Gorsameth wrote:On April 14 2016 04:19 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:02 Disengaged wrote:
[quote]
God forbid they do what is within their god given rights as IP owners. Blizzard has every right to do whatever the hell they want with their IP like shutting down private servers or dig a deeper grave for WoW with each expansion. That being said, maybe they should have some humility and learn why they're bleeding subs left and right and there is such a strong vanilla Wow underground community. I mean they probably know the reason but they just have their heads way too high in their asses to address the problem. I especially love that they will stop reporting their sub # after their last quarterly report. Panic Mode Panic Mode! Quick, let's shut down Nostralius that will bring all that 150K users back to our retail servers! "all those 150k" Im sorry but no the Vannila WoW unground community is not important to blizzard. Your forgetting that this big vanilla server is ~3% of WoW's actual population. They are vocal and determined yes but their not a strong community that Blizzard needs to be listening to. lose 150k here, lose 150k there, soon you'll lose 5-6 millions Blizzard is well aware that WoW will someday need to shut down or go free to play. Nothing lasts forever. That is true, but those 5-6 millions were lost all in one expansion, as opposed to over several. If this doesn't say WoD is all hype and no substance I don't know what is. Largest cliff-dive of playerbase in any game's history probably ever. Since WoW is one of the most popular long running video games in the world, its not that huge a deal. Once again, WoW has far exceeded its lifespan. They are just going to keep on trucking. Even if WoW ends 2 years from now, it will be a legend in the game industry for the next 30 years. You miss the point. Do you actually think Blizzard doesn't care about losing ~100 million dollars A MONTH just because it has already made 1000 times more profit than expected? It still has a potential player base that is 2-3 times the current amount. Based on what? Moon logic and dreams. Of course Blizzard is going to try to keep people playing and keep it interesting. These private servers are not going to change that. The conversion rate of people who are playing for free on these servers to those who would pay for a vanilla server is going to be comically low. Based on what? Based on the fact that subscriber numbers doubled close to the release of WoD. And that was before the expansion was released. Common sense dictates that there are several million players that would have subbed pr resubbes based on positive reviews and/or recommendations from their friends IF the expansion had actually delivered
Yeah, that is the only factor that caused people to stop playing WoW. Of course. Correlation and causation. A perfect theory.
No, the world of video games has changed since 2004.
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On April 14 2016 05:15 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2016 04:56 Plansix wrote:On April 14 2016 04:53 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:On April 14 2016 04:48 Plansix wrote:On April 14 2016 04:45 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:38 Plansix wrote:I am sure Blizzard has a very clear idea how many people they are losing and business expectations for WoW. These vannila WoW are just an IP issue they need to address because its a protect it or lose it system. On April 14 2016 04:37 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:33 Gorsameth wrote:On April 14 2016 04:19 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:02 Disengaged wrote:
[quote]
God forbid they do what is within their god given rights as IP owners. Blizzard has every right to do whatever the hell they want with their IP like shutting down private servers or dig a deeper grave for WoW with each expansion. That being said, maybe they should have some humility and learn why they're bleeding subs left and right and there is such a strong vanilla Wow underground community. I mean they probably know the reason but they just have their heads way too high in their asses to address the problem. I especially love that they will stop reporting their sub # after their last quarterly report. Panic Mode Panic Mode! Quick, let's shut down Nostralius that will bring all that 150K users back to our retail servers! "all those 150k" Im sorry but no the Vannila WoW unground community is not important to blizzard. Your forgetting that this big vanilla server is ~3% of WoW's actual population. They are vocal and determined yes but their not a strong community that Blizzard needs to be listening to. lose 150k here, lose 150k there, soon you'll lose 5-6 millions Blizzard is well aware that WoW will someday need to shut down or go free to play. Nothing lasts forever. That is true, but those 5-6 millions were lost all in one expansion, as opposed to over several. If this doesn't say WoD is all hype and no substance I don't know what is. Largest cliff-dive of playerbase in any game's history probably ever. Since WoW is one of the most popular long running video games in the world, its not that huge a deal. Once again, WoW has far exceeded its lifespan. They are just going to keep on trucking. Even if WoW ends 2 years from now, it will be a legend in the game industry for the next 30 years. You miss the point. Do you actually think Blizzard doesn't care about losing ~100 million dollars A MONTH just because it has already made 1000 times more profit than expected? It still has a potential player base that is 2-3 times the current amount. Based on what? Moon logic and dreams. Of course Blizzard is going to try to keep people playing and keep it interesting. These private servers are not going to change that. The conversion rate of people who are playing for free on these servers to those who would pay for a vanilla server is going to be comically low. Based on what? Based on the fact that subscriber numbers doubled close to the release of WoD. And that was before the expansion was released. Common sense dictates that there are several million players that would have subbed pr resubbes based on positive reviews and/or recommendations from their friends IF the expansion had actually delivered
End of MoP to start of WoD was a spike from 7.5 to 10mil. It has since dropped to ~5mil. That is not doubled but fine, whatever.
I would argue that a large part of those 2.5mil people that came back and left again would have never been satisfied because they want a feeling back they can never gain. That feeling of playing a new game, of feeling kinda lost and overwhelmed.
That's why people keep flocking to every new MMO that gets released and then leave it again a month or 2 later, they are chasing a ghost.
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On April 14 2016 05:22 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2016 05:15 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:On April 14 2016 04:56 Plansix wrote:On April 14 2016 04:53 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:On April 14 2016 04:48 Plansix wrote:On April 14 2016 04:45 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:38 Plansix wrote:I am sure Blizzard has a very clear idea how many people they are losing and business expectations for WoW. These vannila WoW are just an IP issue they need to address because its a protect it or lose it system. On April 14 2016 04:37 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:33 Gorsameth wrote:On April 14 2016 04:19 ref4 wrote:
[quote]
Blizzard has every right to do whatever the hell they want with their IP like shutting down private servers or dig a deeper grave for WoW with each expansion.
That being said, maybe they should have some humility and learn why they're bleeding subs left and right and there is such a strong vanilla Wow underground community. I mean they probably know the reason but they just have their heads way too high in their asses to address the problem.
I especially love that they will stop reporting their sub # after their last quarterly report. Panic Mode Panic Mode! Quick, let's shut down Nostralius that will bring all that 150K users back to our retail servers!
"all those 150k" Im sorry but no the Vannila WoW unground community is not important to blizzard. Your forgetting that this big vanilla server is ~3% of WoW's actual population. They are vocal and determined yes but their not a strong community that Blizzard needs to be listening to. lose 150k here, lose 150k there, soon you'll lose 5-6 millions Blizzard is well aware that WoW will someday need to shut down or go free to play. Nothing lasts forever. That is true, but those 5-6 millions were lost all in one expansion, as opposed to over several. If this doesn't say WoD is all hype and no substance I don't know what is. Largest cliff-dive of playerbase in any game's history probably ever. Since WoW is one of the most popular long running video games in the world, its not that huge a deal. Once again, WoW has far exceeded its lifespan. They are just going to keep on trucking. Even if WoW ends 2 years from now, it will be a legend in the game industry for the next 30 years. You miss the point. Do you actually think Blizzard doesn't care about losing ~100 million dollars A MONTH just because it has already made 1000 times more profit than expected? It still has a potential player base that is 2-3 times the current amount. Based on what? Moon logic and dreams. Of course Blizzard is going to try to keep people playing and keep it interesting. These private servers are not going to change that. The conversion rate of people who are playing for free on these servers to those who would pay for a vanilla server is going to be comically low. Based on what? Based on the fact that subscriber numbers doubled close to the release of WoD. And that was before the expansion was released. Common sense dictates that there are several million players that would have subbed pr resubbes based on positive reviews and/or recommendations from their friends IF the expansion had actually delivered Yeah, that is the only factor that caused people to stop playing WoW. Of course. Correlation and causation. A perfect theory. No, the world of video games has changed since 2004.
You keep saying that yet you ignore that WoD reached 10 million subs at its release. So it is fact that these people are still interested in playing a good version of WoW.
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On April 14 2016 05:21 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2016 04:54 lestye wrote:On April 14 2016 04:45 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:38 Plansix wrote:I am sure Blizzard has a very clear idea how many people they are losing and business expectations for WoW. These vannila WoW are just an IP issue they need to address because its a protect it or lose it system. On April 14 2016 04:37 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:33 Gorsameth wrote:On April 14 2016 04:19 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:02 Disengaged wrote:On April 14 2016 03:58 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 02:28 Godwrath wrote:
Thanks to blizzard's advertisment, i am playing vanilla on Kronos, it seems like a good server which got a good amount of nostalrius players. inb4 Big Brother Blizzard closes down Kronos too God forbid they do what is within their god given rights as IP owners. Blizzard has every right to do whatever the hell they want with their IP like shutting down private servers or dig a deeper grave for WoW with each expansion. That being said, maybe they should have some humility and learn why they're bleeding subs left and right and there is such a strong vanilla Wow underground community. I mean they probably know the reason but they just have their heads way too high in their asses to address the problem. I especially love that they will stop reporting their sub # after their last quarterly report. Panic Mode Panic Mode! Quick, let's shut down Nostralius that will bring all that 150K users back to our retail servers! "all those 150k" Im sorry but no the Vannila WoW unground community is not important to blizzard. Your forgetting that this big vanilla server is ~3% of WoW's actual population. They are vocal and determined yes but their not a strong community that Blizzard needs to be listening to. lose 150k here, lose 150k there, soon you'll lose 5-6 millions Blizzard is well aware that WoW will someday need to shut down or go free to play. Nothing lasts forever. That is true, but those 5-6 millions were lost all in one expansion, as opposed to over several. If this doesn't say WoD is all hype and no substance I don't know what is. Largest cliff-dive of playerbase in any game's history probably ever. IDK, this is a weird topic, because I'm uncertain if we're debating "Modern WoW" or "WoD"... its like no shit its the worst expansion ever, but does that necessarily mean it's forever this way ? WoD was amazing for the questing experience and that's pretty much all it offered. I'm not sure if im making excuses or whathave you, but its not even a discussion of Modern WoW vs Classic WoW at this point, its just everyone beating on the agreed upon worst expansion. I've been hearing the latest expansion is the worst since BC (which is now apparently considered the best). I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that people have played the game for years. You get bored with it eventually.
Yep, as someone who has played since Vanilla this argument gets me laughing every time.
Wotlk is by many now considered the height of WoW (and in subs it is) but god if only you were around at the time. WotLK was the death of wow, its all over. daed game!.
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I don't want them trying to get a more vanilla feel on Legion on further expansions. For that, they would need to remove a lot of features that i bet many of the current players enjoy. Legacy servers is the only way to go, either past expansions or very limited features on some servers to promote server communities to flourish.
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On April 14 2016 05:25 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2016 05:22 Plansix wrote:On April 14 2016 05:15 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:On April 14 2016 04:56 Plansix wrote:On April 14 2016 04:53 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:On April 14 2016 04:48 Plansix wrote:On April 14 2016 04:45 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:38 Plansix wrote:I am sure Blizzard has a very clear idea how many people they are losing and business expectations for WoW. These vannila WoW are just an IP issue they need to address because its a protect it or lose it system. On April 14 2016 04:37 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:33 Gorsameth wrote:
[quote]
"all those 150k"
Im sorry but no the Vannila WoW unground community is not important to blizzard. Your forgetting that this big vanilla server is ~3% of WoW's actual population.
They are vocal and determined yes but their not a strong community that Blizzard needs to be listening to.
lose 150k here, lose 150k there, soon you'll lose 5-6 millions Blizzard is well aware that WoW will someday need to shut down or go free to play. Nothing lasts forever. That is true, but those 5-6 millions were lost all in one expansion, as opposed to over several. If this doesn't say WoD is all hype and no substance I don't know what is. Largest cliff-dive of playerbase in any game's history probably ever. Since WoW is one of the most popular long running video games in the world, its not that huge a deal. Once again, WoW has far exceeded its lifespan. They are just going to keep on trucking. Even if WoW ends 2 years from now, it will be a legend in the game industry for the next 30 years. You miss the point. Do you actually think Blizzard doesn't care about losing ~100 million dollars A MONTH just because it has already made 1000 times more profit than expected? It still has a potential player base that is 2-3 times the current amount. Based on what? Moon logic and dreams. Of course Blizzard is going to try to keep people playing and keep it interesting. These private servers are not going to change that. The conversion rate of people who are playing for free on these servers to those who would pay for a vanilla server is going to be comically low. Based on what? Based on the fact that subscriber numbers doubled close to the release of WoD. And that was before the expansion was released. Common sense dictates that there are several million players that would have subbed pr resubbes based on positive reviews and/or recommendations from their friends IF the expansion had actually delivered Yeah, that is the only factor that caused people to stop playing WoW. Of course. Correlation and causation. A perfect theory. No, the world of video games has changed since 2004. You keep saying that yet you ignore that WoD reached 10 million subs at its release. So it is fact that these people are still interested in playing a good version of WoW.
Yes. They will play, get their fill of the content in a few months and move on. Just like every expansion. The cycle of WoW is predictable. The next expansion will have a similar bump and then a similar drop off.
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On April 14 2016 05:23 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2016 05:15 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:On April 14 2016 04:56 Plansix wrote:On April 14 2016 04:53 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:On April 14 2016 04:48 Plansix wrote:On April 14 2016 04:45 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:38 Plansix wrote:I am sure Blizzard has a very clear idea how many people they are losing and business expectations for WoW. These vannila WoW are just an IP issue they need to address because its a protect it or lose it system. On April 14 2016 04:37 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:33 Gorsameth wrote:On April 14 2016 04:19 ref4 wrote:
[quote]
Blizzard has every right to do whatever the hell they want with their IP like shutting down private servers or dig a deeper grave for WoW with each expansion.
That being said, maybe they should have some humility and learn why they're bleeding subs left and right and there is such a strong vanilla Wow underground community. I mean they probably know the reason but they just have their heads way too high in their asses to address the problem.
I especially love that they will stop reporting their sub # after their last quarterly report. Panic Mode Panic Mode! Quick, let's shut down Nostralius that will bring all that 150K users back to our retail servers!
"all those 150k" Im sorry but no the Vannila WoW unground community is not important to blizzard. Your forgetting that this big vanilla server is ~3% of WoW's actual population. They are vocal and determined yes but their not a strong community that Blizzard needs to be listening to. lose 150k here, lose 150k there, soon you'll lose 5-6 millions Blizzard is well aware that WoW will someday need to shut down or go free to play. Nothing lasts forever. That is true, but those 5-6 millions were lost all in one expansion, as opposed to over several. If this doesn't say WoD is all hype and no substance I don't know what is. Largest cliff-dive of playerbase in any game's history probably ever. Since WoW is one of the most popular long running video games in the world, its not that huge a deal. Once again, WoW has far exceeded its lifespan. They are just going to keep on trucking. Even if WoW ends 2 years from now, it will be a legend in the game industry for the next 30 years. You miss the point. Do you actually think Blizzard doesn't care about losing ~100 million dollars A MONTH just because it has already made 1000 times more profit than expected? It still has a potential player base that is 2-3 times the current amount. Based on what? Moon logic and dreams. Of course Blizzard is going to try to keep people playing and keep it interesting. These private servers are not going to change that. The conversion rate of people who are playing for free on these servers to those who would pay for a vanilla server is going to be comically low. Based on what? Based on the fact that subscriber numbers doubled close to the release of WoD. And that was before the expansion was released. Common sense dictates that there are several million players that would have subbed pr resubbes based on positive reviews and/or recommendations from their friends IF the expansion had actually delivered End of MoP to start of WoD was a spike from 7.5 to 10mil. It has since dropped to ~5mil. That is not doubled but fine, whatever. I would argue that a large part of those 2.5mil people that came back and left again would have never been satisfied because they want a feeling back they can never gain. That feeling of playing a new game, of feeling kinda lost and overwhelmed. That's why people keep flocking to every new MMO that gets released and then leave it again a month or 2 later, they are chasing a ghost.
I can't prove you wrong, but a decline of >50% within one year should tell any game developer that they are on the wrong track. 5 million people don't just quit a game because the gaming world has changed.
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On April 14 2016 05:28 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2016 05:23 Gorsameth wrote:On April 14 2016 05:15 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:On April 14 2016 04:56 Plansix wrote:On April 14 2016 04:53 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:On April 14 2016 04:48 Plansix wrote:On April 14 2016 04:45 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:38 Plansix wrote:I am sure Blizzard has a very clear idea how many people they are losing and business expectations for WoW. These vannila WoW are just an IP issue they need to address because its a protect it or lose it system. On April 14 2016 04:37 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:33 Gorsameth wrote:
[quote]
"all those 150k"
Im sorry but no the Vannila WoW unground community is not important to blizzard. Your forgetting that this big vanilla server is ~3% of WoW's actual population.
They are vocal and determined yes but their not a strong community that Blizzard needs to be listening to.
lose 150k here, lose 150k there, soon you'll lose 5-6 millions Blizzard is well aware that WoW will someday need to shut down or go free to play. Nothing lasts forever. That is true, but those 5-6 millions were lost all in one expansion, as opposed to over several. If this doesn't say WoD is all hype and no substance I don't know what is. Largest cliff-dive of playerbase in any game's history probably ever. Since WoW is one of the most popular long running video games in the world, its not that huge a deal. Once again, WoW has far exceeded its lifespan. They are just going to keep on trucking. Even if WoW ends 2 years from now, it will be a legend in the game industry for the next 30 years. You miss the point. Do you actually think Blizzard doesn't care about losing ~100 million dollars A MONTH just because it has already made 1000 times more profit than expected? It still has a potential player base that is 2-3 times the current amount. Based on what? Moon logic and dreams. Of course Blizzard is going to try to keep people playing and keep it interesting. These private servers are not going to change that. The conversion rate of people who are playing for free on these servers to those who would pay for a vanilla server is going to be comically low. Based on what? Based on the fact that subscriber numbers doubled close to the release of WoD. And that was before the expansion was released. Common sense dictates that there are several million players that would have subbed pr resubbes based on positive reviews and/or recommendations from their friends IF the expansion had actually delivered End of MoP to start of WoD was a spike from 7.5 to 10mil. It has since dropped to ~5mil. That is not doubled but fine, whatever. I would argue that a large part of those 2.5mil people that came back and left again would have never been satisfied because they want a feeling back they can never gain. That feeling of playing a new game, of feeling kinda lost and overwhelmed. That's why people keep flocking to every new MMO that gets released and then leave it again a month or 2 later, they are chasing a ghost. I can't prove you wrong, but a decline of >50% within one year should tell any game developer that they are on the wrong track. 5 million people don't just quit a game because the gaming world has changed.
The decline is going to happen, it’s a 10 year old game and there are thousands of other options out there in the world. F2P MMOS have improved and other games like LoL, hearthstone and Dota 2 provide service based social entertainment. It’s a new market.
WoW’s decline is just going to happen because its old and what people are looking for in games shift.
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On April 14 2016 05:28 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2016 05:23 Gorsameth wrote:On April 14 2016 05:15 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:On April 14 2016 04:56 Plansix wrote:On April 14 2016 04:53 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:On April 14 2016 04:48 Plansix wrote:On April 14 2016 04:45 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:38 Plansix wrote:I am sure Blizzard has a very clear idea how many people they are losing and business expectations for WoW. These vannila WoW are just an IP issue they need to address because its a protect it or lose it system. On April 14 2016 04:37 ref4 wrote:On April 14 2016 04:33 Gorsameth wrote:
[quote]
"all those 150k"
Im sorry but no the Vannila WoW unground community is not important to blizzard. Your forgetting that this big vanilla server is ~3% of WoW's actual population.
They are vocal and determined yes but their not a strong community that Blizzard needs to be listening to.
lose 150k here, lose 150k there, soon you'll lose 5-6 millions Blizzard is well aware that WoW will someday need to shut down or go free to play. Nothing lasts forever. That is true, but those 5-6 millions were lost all in one expansion, as opposed to over several. If this doesn't say WoD is all hype and no substance I don't know what is. Largest cliff-dive of playerbase in any game's history probably ever. Since WoW is one of the most popular long running video games in the world, its not that huge a deal. Once again, WoW has far exceeded its lifespan. They are just going to keep on trucking. Even if WoW ends 2 years from now, it will be a legend in the game industry for the next 30 years. You miss the point. Do you actually think Blizzard doesn't care about losing ~100 million dollars A MONTH just because it has already made 1000 times more profit than expected? It still has a potential player base that is 2-3 times the current amount. Based on what? Moon logic and dreams. Of course Blizzard is going to try to keep people playing and keep it interesting. These private servers are not going to change that. The conversion rate of people who are playing for free on these servers to those who would pay for a vanilla server is going to be comically low. Based on what? Based on the fact that subscriber numbers doubled close to the release of WoD. And that was before the expansion was released. Common sense dictates that there are several million players that would have subbed pr resubbes based on positive reviews and/or recommendations from their friends IF the expansion had actually delivered End of MoP to start of WoD was a spike from 7.5 to 10mil. It has since dropped to ~5mil. That is not doubled but fine, whatever. I would argue that a large part of those 2.5mil people that came back and left again would have never been satisfied because they want a feeling back they can never gain. That feeling of playing a new game, of feeling kinda lost and overwhelmed. That's why people keep flocking to every new MMO that gets released and then leave it again a month or 2 later, they are chasing a ghost. I can't prove you wrong, but a decline of >50% within one year should tell any game developer that they are on the wrong track. 5 million people don't just quit a game because the gaming world has changed.
How often do I have to undermine the 5mil number before you stop beating a dead horse?
I even spelled out the numbers for you...
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