The new CCG created by Mojang, creators of Minecraft is now in open beta. Looks kind of similar to Summoner Wars with a mix of Magic like mechanics.
There is only one resource type, you just discard any card to use it as a resource instead, so no getting mana screwed on your first turn or getting too many lands later. You can also discard a card to draw two more cards instead. From what I have read the discard pile reshuffles into your deck once you run out of cards, and decks are 50 card minimum.
TotalBiscuit has a WTF is? on this game for those who like those reviews.
I've played it quite a bit. Good cards are difficult to get hold of. Decks are currently quite narrow in scope at the moment, I feel. I think it will become much better as the cardpool expands and they add factions\colours.
It's kind of like Starcraft, but with your opening build handed to you in the beginning. So sometimes your hand and draws can screw you over considerably, but I guess it comes down to deck building.
Yeah I'm really apprehensive about this, seeing as the only thing I have to go on is that it's a Mojang game (and one that's totally different from Minecraft). I would have loved to have a way to try this without paying $20.
This is going to have to really do some big things if it expects to turn heads away from Hex, Solforge, or Hearthstone.
I guess it really depends on how much you enjoy card games. There are definately stuff that can be improved in the game, but I'm sure they'll make those improvements as well. I think it's definately worth 20 bucks though. If you don't like it at the start, you can always come back to it a few months down the road.
But there is a limit to the cards you can buy with real-money. You basically have 6 specific cards and the starter packs you can buy and you're not gaining any significant advantage from that.
I guess there is the possibility of buy things for money, but I think it is very far from Freemium or Pay-2-win, at least in comparison to other F2P games with Freemium options.
In it's current form, you can't just pour money and buy unlimited boosters, because boosters are only purchaseable by ingame currency. I think there are many issues with the game, but being forced to pay for new cards is not one of them. It's like ripping GW2 for having an ingame market.
On June 08 2013 01:53 Yacobs wrote: You have to pay $20 just to get the client and then you have to pay for new cards too?
Looks like the game mechanics are poorly thought out, too. What expertise does this guy have with card game design?
You don't have to pay for new cards, you earn gold ingame.
But it provides the means to.
It's essentially an F2P/Freemium business model built into a game that's not F2P.
Nope. The only things you can buy with shards are starter packs or different skins. Additionally, every week there are six random cards you can buy only once. You can also just buy all of this with gold.
The only thing providing you an advantage here are the single cards. Their gold price however is so little (no higher than 1000 which equates to 2-3 completed trials or 2-4 games) that they're pretty much free anyway. There is no way you can buy yourself an advantage over anyone.
On June 08 2013 02:26 ain wrote: Nope. The only things you can buy with shards are starter packs or different skins. Additionally, every week there are six random cards you can buy only once. You can also just buy all of this with gold.
Oh you can only buy each of them once? I thought you could buy up to a whole playset.
Having played both this and Solforge for a bit recently, I'm actually surprised to find myself enjoying Scrolls more. The ability to move creatures on the board is very interesting, and the larger play space allows for more cute design in cards (I had a shaman that, instead of attacking, could also summon a wolf equivalent to a level 1 creature in a square adjacent to him, which I found pretty neat).
On June 08 2013 03:12 KillerSOS wrote: That game looks pretty good actually. TB hates that company and still gave them a glowing review
What is his reasoning for hating on Mojang lol...
He doesn't hate them... He doesn't hold notch in the highest regard due to a conflict between him and the yogscast, whom tb is friends with (you can Google it but it's very old news and he's pretty much over it. See his twitter discussion the other day with notch) and he don't think minecraft is a very good game (which in the eyes of fanboys might be the same as hating them). That's about it, no need to make any more drama than it is.
On June 08 2013 04:43 KillerSOS wrote: I decided to play growth, but unless i just suddenly became awful at TCGs growth is just awful in this game...
The whole game is pretty much based on gaining the upper hand in the first few rounds. If the enemy gets a strong foothold, Growth lacks quite a bit of nuke that can pick that apart to regain map control. The starting deck synergy is quite weak, but I think that is on purpose to give some scope for improving, you're not supposed to start with the best deck.
Also, your full focus should be on killing enemy creatures, as having control over map will make your opponent unable to do anything + it protects your structures.
On June 08 2013 04:43 KillerSOS wrote: I decided to play growth, but unless i just suddenly became awful at TCGs growth is just awful in this game...
The whole game is pretty much based on gaining the upper hand in the first few rounds. If the enemy gets a strong foothold, Growth lacks quite a bit of nuke that can pick that apart to regain map control. The starting deck synergy is quite weak, but I think that is on purpose to give some scope for improving, you're not supposed to start with the best deck.
Also, your full focus should be on killing enemy creatures, as having control over map will make your opponent unable to do anything + it protects your structures.
I can't figure out how to by specific cards... only random card packs which is not very efficient for making a decent deck
Well, you can trade, there is no auction house, i think that would create inflation of prices and min-maxing occur too quickly. At the moment I'm just buying 10-pack random cards as it guarantees 1 rare and 2 uncommons, and it's the most bang for the buck compared to specific colour cards. Besides it's nice to have many cards so that you can experiment with different decks.
On June 08 2013 05:52 Gono wrote: Deciding whether I should buy this game, but its not looking too appealing... From what I can tell its very slow and snowbally.
Slow yes, snowbally, no. There is tons of crowd control cards, but you have to use them smartly in order to swing around a board state. Hand building is the name of the game.
edit: Though I haven't played with many custom decks yet. That and me playing Energy means my games tend to be slow no matter what.
On June 08 2013 08:49 Silentenigma wrote: Why is this so expensive when there are lots of free TCG s out there I dont understand.I hope game will be free when it is released.
Expensive?
20$ for a TCG is quite cheap, actually. All other TCG online, if you ever want to have a competitive deck EVER you pretty much have to buy 200$ or more of in game cash. Scrolls, you can't even pay to win. You have to play and win in game gold to buy new cards and packs are quite cheap in in game gold. Every other TCG are basically pay to win.
So yes, if you are super casual and want to play with the pre construct deck for ever and don't care about it, sure, you can do that for free in the other TCG. But, if you actually want to improve your deck at all and want to play some ranking games, Scrolls is the cheapest of them all for that. Even Hex will be pay to win, considering that each boosters of cards will be 2$.
Played with growth too and lost like 80% vs non growth and won most of my games vs growth. I have no history with cardgames so I cant judge the gameplay, but growth is supposed to do early pressure, seeing that the highest cards (lvl 6 and 7 KinJarl and Idolhealthing) are so bad i dont even keep them in my deck.
You can buy random cards which gave me roughly 2 very good and ~10 decent cards to add to the starting deck out of ~40. And you get 6 set cards each week to buy and I got none of growth, but a rare energy one and like 3 others that are all better than any card my deck has ...
I was kind of disappointed. I honestly feel Shadow Era is a better card game, especially when you consider it's F2P and can be played from my phone or PC
Really surprised noone heard of that game... I recommend it.
On June 08 2013 15:57 Spyridon wrote: I was kind of disappointed. I honestly feel Shadow Era is a better card game, especially when you consider it's F2P and can be played from my phone or PC
Really surprised noone heard of that game... I recommend it.
Bleh, I recently got that game on my android but you can't earn cards offline. Since I'll be playing with the same deck against the same deck till the end of time I gave up on it pretty quick.
On June 08 2013 16:09 heartlxp wrote: i tried shadow era, just doesn't feel smooth at all
Feel smooth? What do you mean? Its a card game lol? Gameplay speed? You can up that in options.
On June 08 2013 16:12 Gono wrote: Bleh, I recently got that game on my android but you can't earn cards offline. Since I'll be playing with the same deck against the same deck till the end of time I gave up on it pretty quick.
Yes you can? You earn gold and xp vs computer. Levels from XP give you shadow points to buy cards, and with gold you can buy individual cards.
On June 08 2013 09:14 TestSubject893 wrote: I'm having trouble finding much about this game other than TB's review. My interest is piqued, but I'm not convinced enough to throw down $20 for it.
On June 08 2013 09:14 TestSubject893 wrote: I'm having trouble finding much about this game other than TB's review. My interest is piqued, but I'm not convinced enough to throw down $20 for it.
Just wait until it's out of beta.
Im pretty sure it follows the minecraft payment model of "the earlier you buy the cheaper it is". I havent heard anything of Scrolls being completely f2p.
On June 08 2013 09:14 TestSubject893 wrote: I'm having trouble finding much about this game other than TB's review. My interest is piqued, but I'm not convinced enough to throw down $20 for it.
Just wait until it's out of beta.
Im pretty sure it follows the minecraft payment model of "the earlier you buy the cheaper it is". I havent heard anything of Scrolls being completely f2p.
I bought the game because my brother seems pretty into it at the moment. For two players playing different factions, it's cheaper to buy the any-faction cards and then trade, than it is to buy faction-specific cards.
As for the game itself, there's nothing fundamentally wrong with the design that will prevent it from catching on. The card game aspect, along with being able to move your units on the board every turn, makes for a lot of choices for the player to make. The fact that it's not free-to-play might be the biggest factor to prevent it from catching on. But that's not to say that a FTP model is necessarily better: for a card game, is it possible to motivate money spending while keeping the effects of said spending mostly cosmetic?
On June 09 2013 06:25 heartlxp wrote: i got this, starting out as Order, seems really fun!
Just wait till you have a 1.5 hour match vs Energy... I needed to be asleep 30 mins ago!
What is the average match length? 1 1/2 hours is quite a long time for 1 game, the game length of League and Dota 2 is one of the reasons I don't play those games as much.
On June 08 2013 15:57 Spyridon wrote: I was kind of disappointed. I honestly feel Shadow Era is a better card game, especially when you consider it's F2P and can be played from my phone or PC
Really surprised noone heard of that game... I recommend it.
They key factor is how high you set the bar for your TCG of choice.
I played competitive MTG for years, and for me Shadow Era is pretty meh. On the other hand, you can get competitive cards if you mass a reasonable amount of games, spending $0 (at least when I played it a year ago), which is very nice. Gonna try the Might and Magic one. I honestly hate how high MTG set the bar (result of years and years of experience), even when I believe a better online TCG formula is very posible.
Ive been playing. It is really fun. Im looking for order cards if anyone wants to trade. Also we should start a teamspeak or something because I like theorycrafting.
On June 09 2013 18:34 AntiGrav1ty wrote: Dropping one card to draw 2 seems really weird to me. A cardgame where u are never carddead. Gotta get used to that.
Some other games have picked up similar mechanics where board control is much more important than card advantage(see might and magic)
Overall I think it's interesting enough.
Does anyone know if unlocks in beta will carry over into release?
On June 09 2013 19:37 RQShatter wrote: Im sure it will, if it is anything like minecraft. Usually open betas do not wipe.
I've seen a few f2p Digital CCG betas wipe (Might and Magic did for instance) , so it's a "Fair" start for everyone(they returned any of the in game $ you purchased). Other games have done resets as well, I just can't remember which ones. I usually avoid "grinding" those sorts of betas, and wait for the release, . Always good to know, I couldn't find info by googling this, I looked up scrolls open beta faq, as well as do you keep your scrolls and did not get a definite answer .
On June 09 2013 19:37 RQShatter wrote: Im sure it will, if it is anything like minecraft. Usually open betas do not wipe.
I've seen a few f2p Digital CCG betas wipe (Might and Magic did for instance) , so it's a "Fair" start for everyone(they returned any of the in game $ you purchased), I usually avoid "grinding" those sorts of betas, and wait for the release, . Always good to know, I couldn't find info by googling this, I looked up scrolls open beta faq, as well as do you keep your scrolls and did not get a definite answer .
Will my stats get reset when Scrolls is fully released (Scrolls 1.0)?
No, there will be no more resets. The cards you own now will be yours forever.
My impressions of the game so far are pretty good. The game is very fun since there is a lot of room for plays when the board starts to get crowded. Sometimes a single move can mean that you wipe the whole enemy board or not, which I like. There seems to be way to few cards at the moment which I expect to change. Everyone runs the same three decks basically, since there are to few cards to make new strategies, basically you are limited to just improving the starter decks.
Regarding magic being the best TCG, I completely agree. I've thought about it sometimes why MTG is so good and many others aren't and the main reason in my opinion is the sheer amount of cards. With more than 10k cards there is a lot of room for innovation and creativity. Many cards are bad, but often a new card can make older cards powerful which makes the game constantly change. Most other TCG/CCG I've tried simply have to few cards in my opinion. Most other TCG/CCG I've tried have as many cards as MTG has in one standard cycle, which is a way to small card pool.
Anyway right now Scrolls is pretty awesome but we'll see if I've changed my mind in a few days when the new shiny thing feeling is gone.
It's been casually referenced to but I'll just ask directly: Does anyone know what Mojang actually means when they say buying into the beta means future updates are free? Like, is this implying its cheaper to buy into the beta than it is to wait for release?
On June 09 2013 23:54 rd wrote: It's been casually referenced to but I'll just ask directly: Does anyone know what Mojang actually means when they say buying into the beta means future updates are free? Like, is this implying its cheaper to buy into the beta than it is to wait for release?
I'm under the suspicion that the price of the game would change for when the game goes to release and that you don't need to buy the game again.
On June 09 2013 23:54 rd wrote: It's been casually referenced to but I'll just ask directly: Does anyone know what Mojang actually means when they say buying into the beta means future updates are free? Like, is this implying its cheaper to buy into the beta than it is to wait for release?
I'm under the suspicion that the price of the game would change for when the game goes to release and that you don't need to buy the game again.
When Minecraft was still in alpha i remember Notch saying that future updates and/or expansions would cost money, unless you had an alpha account which made future updates free. So far there has been no updates that cost money to Minecraft to my knowledge though.
On June 09 2013 23:54 rd wrote: It's been casually referenced to but I'll just ask directly: Does anyone know what Mojang actually means when they say buying into the beta means future updates are free? Like, is this implying its cheaper to buy into the beta than it is to wait for release?
I'm under the suspicion that the price of the game would change for when the game goes to release and that you don't need to buy the game again.
When Minecraft was still in alpha i remember Notch saying that future updates and/or expansions would cost money, unless you had an alpha account which made future updates free. So far there has been no updates that cost money to Minecraft to my knowledge though.
Yeah, it'd make sense if he said Scrolls would cost more on release, but he's implying that future updates are going to cost money. Expansions like Magic DOTP maybe?
On June 09 2013 23:54 rd wrote: It's been casually referenced to but I'll just ask directly: Does anyone know what Mojang actually means when they say buying into the beta means future updates are free? Like, is this implying its cheaper to buy into the beta than it is to wait for release?
I'm under the suspicion that the price of the game would change for when the game goes to release and that you don't need to buy the game again.
When Minecraft was still in alpha i remember Notch saying that future updates and/or expansions would cost money, unless you had an alpha account which made future updates free. So far there has been no updates that cost money to Minecraft to my knowledge though.
Yeah, it'd make sense if he said Scrolls would cost more on release, but he's implying that future updates are going to cost money. Expansions like Magic DOTP maybe?
There's more colours (Growth, Energy, Order) yet to come. I imagine the new colours will be the expansions.
On June 10 2013 02:32 KillerSOS wrote: I will be in Teamliquid channel as well. The games usually last between 20 - 40 mins but end game order vs energy tend to take forever.
I think this game has as ton of potential as long as they pump out cards at a reasonable rate.
Sitting in channel.
Back to work for now-- I have a ton of extra order commons if anyone wants to fill out a deck.
On June 09 2013 23:54 rd wrote: It's been casually referenced to but I'll just ask directly: Does anyone know what Mojang actually means when they say buying into the beta means future updates are free? Like, is this implying its cheaper to buy into the beta than it is to wait for release?
I'm under the suspicion that the price of the game would change for when the game goes to release and that you don't need to buy the game again.
When Minecraft was still in alpha i remember Notch saying that future updates and/or expansions would cost money, unless you had an alpha account which made future updates free. So far there has been no updates that cost money to Minecraft to my knowledge though.
Yeah, it'd make sense if he said Scrolls would cost more on release, but he's implying that future updates are going to cost money. Expansions like Magic DOTP maybe?
There's more colours (Growth, Energy, Order) yet to come. I imagine the new colours will be the expansions.
Would suck, and be a terrible business model if extra colours in expansions cost money above and beyond the initial purchase since they already have microtransactions built in.
On June 10 2013 02:32 KillerSOS wrote: I will be in Teamliquid channel as well. The games usually last between 20 - 40 mins but end game order vs energy tend to take forever.
I think this game has as ton of potential as long as they pump out cards at a reasonable rate.
Sitting in channel.
Back to work for now-- I have a ton of extra order commons if anyone wants to fill out a deck.
On June 09 2013 23:54 rd wrote: It's been casually referenced to but I'll just ask directly: Does anyone know what Mojang actually means when they say buying into the beta means future updates are free? Like, is this implying its cheaper to buy into the beta than it is to wait for release?
I'm under the suspicion that the price of the game would change for when the game goes to release and that you don't need to buy the game again.
When Minecraft was still in alpha i remember Notch saying that future updates and/or expansions would cost money, unless you had an alpha account which made future updates free. So far there has been no updates that cost money to Minecraft to my knowledge though.
Yeah, it'd make sense if he said Scrolls would cost more on release, but he's implying that future updates are going to cost money. Expansions like Magic DOTP maybe?
There's more colours (Growth, Energy, Order) yet to come. I imagine the new colours will be the expansions.
Would suck, and be a terrible business model if extra colours in expansions cost money above and beyond the initial purchase since they already have microtransactions built in.
The developers have said that the 4th resource (Decay) is planned to be released shortly after the release of beta according to the FAQ at scrollsfans.
Is order vs energy really that bad? Seems to me that if it is a good energy deck then you should win after it gets super lategame. It's energy mirrors that go on and on for me, had a 45 round game just earlier today.
Still enjoying the game, provides an interesting mix of positioning and card management. I think I'd advise anyone about to buy the game to go with growth just because you will win and earn gold that much faster
On June 10 2013 03:52 Incognitodies wrote: Is order vs energy really that bad? Seems to me that if it is a good energy deck then you should win after it gets super lategame. It's energy mirrors that go on and on for me, had a 45 round game just earlier today.
Still enjoying the game, provides an interesting mix of positioning and card management. I think I'd advise anyone about to buy the game to go with growth just because you will win and earn gold that much faster
Most of my order vs energy go 30+. A decent order deck is almost all creatures with speed so you get attacks off regardless of the aoe burn.
Honestly I think that a order deck with 3x of all the common uncommon creatures is the best gold grinding deck. Just drop all the useless healing cards, I'm running 70% win or so in quick match with it.
So I started with growth, ploughed through all the easy and medium trials. I think I wasted too much gold on the random scrolls packs because I can't for the life of me beat some of the hard trails and I don't think I have enough actual monster for a growth deck and way too many filler enchantments to get my deck number to 50.
Is there any way to buy different individual cards then just the 6 or so displayed in the "Just for you" spot? I could REALLY use a couple more low cost monsters like ragged wolfs n shit but I have no luck in getting them with the random scrolls.
..and it's a shame they weren't able to do more with the visuals. It basically looks like a slightly beefed up browser game.. hard to justify the price of entry imo.
On June 10 2013 06:02 Quotidian wrote: anyone know if it's heading to Steam?
..and it's a shame they weren't able to do more with the visuals. It basically looks like a slightly beefed up browser game.. hard to justify the price of entry imo.
I read the FAQ earlier(thanks whoever sent the link), looks like no steam support. You can add it as a non steam game, thats it.
Trading seems to be the best place to pick up specific cards for gold, but each trade channel is limited to 100 users at a time, so you have to manually join trading-2 or trading-3 ect. There is a work in progress price guide at http://scrollspc.byethost14.com/index.php I spent most of my trial reward money on random packs though so I would have stuff to trade.
Of course price is always whatever someone is willing to sell or buy for, but those prices seem pretty consistent with the ball park I have seen in trade channel for most offers. They at least give you a starting place for whether you are getting ripped off based on demand.
On June 10 2013 06:30 Incognitodies wrote: You don't really want too fancy graphics in a game like this really they just get in the way
If you want individual cards best to try and trade for them rather than picking up scrolls (esp. low cost ones)
you don't need fancy graphics, no.. there are plenty of games that are fun and make due with pretty much no visuals to speak of. But they don't cost as much as Scrolls either. Like where are they spending the money in terms of production to warrant its price? Or are they making it looks cheap because they are cheap?
Visuals do enter into what its value is as a product for me. Like, considering my baseline at the moment in Dota 2, which looks amazing (even the "card" part of Dota looks better than this) and I've not spent any money on it at all, it kind of makes Scrolls look bad with it's horrible artwork and production values. If what's seen in the TB videos is anything to go by. I'm not saying it needs to be fancy, just not shit.
edit: screw it, I bought it.. I'll eat out one less time next week, whatever I'm bored et cetera
I've slowly come more and more over to the opinion that the game is bad. there is little ability for any of the factions to finish a game that isn't one sided. this being the case i don't see much point in even playing cards until you have lost an idol. i've found when i strike first, i lose 80% of those games, and when i lose an idol first i win 80% of those. its simply easier as you lose idols.
On June 10 2013 06:30 Incognitodies wrote: You don't really want too fancy graphics in a game like this really they just get in the way
If you want individual cards best to try and trade for them rather than picking up scrolls (esp. low cost ones)
you don't need fancy graphics, no.. there are plenty of games that are fun and make due with pretty much no visuals to speak of. But they don't cost as much as Scrolls either. Like where are they spending the money in terms of production to warrant its price? Or are they making it looks cheap because they are cheap?
Visuals do enter into what its value is as a product for me. Like, considering my baseline at the moment in Dota 2, which looks amazing (even the "card" part of Dota looks better than this) and I've not spent any money on it at all, it kind of makes Scrolls look bad with it's horrible artwork and production values. If what's seen in the TB videos is anything to go by. I'm not saying it needs to be fancy, just not shit.
I haven't seen many of the cards in scrolls, but in MTG part of the aesthetic appeal to the game is the often incredible artwork that comes with the cards. Each color has its own themes and Wizards hires a lot of different artists so you wind up with a card pool of distinct and memorable cards.
On June 10 2013 06:30 Incognitodies wrote: You don't really want too fancy graphics in a game like this really they just get in the way
If you want individual cards best to try and trade for them rather than picking up scrolls (esp. low cost ones)
you don't need fancy graphics, no.. there are plenty of games that are fun and make due with pretty much no visuals to speak of. But they don't cost as much as Scrolls either. Like where are they spending the money in terms of production to warrant its price? Or are they making it looks cheap because they are cheap?
Visuals do enter into what its value is as a product for me. Like, considering my baseline at the moment in Dota 2, which looks amazing (even the "card" part of Dota looks better than this) and I've not spent any money on it at all, it kind of makes Scrolls look bad with it's horrible artwork and production values. If what's seen in the TB videos is anything to go by. I'm not saying it needs to be fancy, just not shit.
I haven't seen many of the cards in scrolls, but in MTG part of the aesthetic appeal to the game is the often incredible artwork that comes with the cards. Each color has its own themes and Wizards hires a lot of different artists so you wind up with a card pool of distinct and memorable cards.
I'm kind of talking less about their card artwork and more about the backgrounds on the battlefields, their horrible shop keeper background art and so on. There's a lot of stuff that wouldn't even pass on a third rate Deviant Art page. Mojang has a lot of Minecraft cash laying around, they should contract some good artists for this stuff
On June 10 2013 06:56 karazax wrote: Trading seems to be the best place to pick up specific cards for gold, but each trade channel is limited to 100 users at a time, so you have to manually join trading-2 or trading-3 ect. There is a work in progress price guide at http://scrollspc.byethost14.com/index.php I spent most of my trial reward money on random packs though so I would have stuff to trade.
Of course price is always whatever someone is willing to sell or buy for, but those prices seem pretty consistent with the ball park I have seen in trade channel for most offers. They at least give you a starting place for whether you are getting ripped off based on demand.
Damn.. I didn't know anything bout trading and just sold my cards I didn't need back to the store T.T, well gonna have to grind out a few games against bots or something till I'm not completely broke xD
On June 10 2013 07:10 PrinceXizor wrote: I've slowly come more and more over to the opinion that the game is bad. there is little ability for any of the factions to finish a game that isn't one sided. this being the case i don't see much point in even playing cards until you have lost an idol. i've found when i strike first, i lose 80% of those games, and when i lose an idol first i win 80% of those. its simply easier as you lose idols.
It depends on what Idol you lose, and yes you should sac an idol in pretty much every match. Alot of the "closer" cards are the expensive rares, you'll see them more in higher ranked matchmaking
Game is certainly fun for a couple of hours but it's flaws become more and more apparent the more i play. They need to expand it a lot for it to compete with other TCGs.
On June 10 2013 17:37 ShloobeR wrote: It's still in Beta, let's at least wait until 1.0 before writing it off due to lack of content.
they shouldn't be charging money for it in that case. As soon as they accept money, any criticism is completely valid. Seriously, anyone thinking about getting it - don't. Wait and see. I actually have my doubts they'll be able to make a good game out of this
On June 10 2013 17:37 ShloobeR wrote: It's still in Beta, let's at least wait until 1.0 before writing it off due to lack of content.
they shouldn't be charging money for it in that case. As soon as they accept money, any criticism is completely valid. Seriously, anyone thinking about getting it - don't. Wait and see. I actually have my doubts they'll be able to make a good game out of this
Just because you have paid for an unfinished product doesn't mean your criticism is valid. There's good criticism and there's bad criticism, none is connected to how much money you've spent on it.
On June 10 2013 17:37 ShloobeR wrote: It's still in Beta, let's at least wait until 1.0 before writing it off due to lack of content.
they shouldn't be charging money for it in that case. As soon as they accept money, any criticism is completely valid. Seriously, anyone thinking about getting it - don't. Wait and see. I actually have my doubts they'll be able to make a good game out of this
Just because you have paid for an unfinished product doesn't mean your criticism is valid. There's good criticism and there's bad criticism, none is connected to how much money you've spent on it.
just because I haven't formulated a pointed criticism here, doesn't mean there aren't valid critiques to be made. I've just been talking to people I've been matched against.. every time we've started talking about the game, both of us have been in virtually 100% agreement that the game is bad, unbalanced, not worth the money, etc. Maybe it gets better after you've been on the treadmill for a bit, but that's just yet another sign of a bad game. The least they could've done is to let you access all three initial decks for the price of entry. It's the least they could do considering how bad those default decks are. And then there's other things like how the game pretends that board control is important, but has plenty of cards that completely negate positioning and even scrambles the board up... or how the game seems to be decided very early on, like how a poster earlier in the thread said.
But I disagree with you on principle. If you're unhappy with a product you payed for - for whatever reason - you're entitled to your opinion as a consumer. The fact that we've come to the point where we're to buying unfinished products now is just a sign of shitty industry practices... and customers being suckers, I guess.
On June 10 2013 17:37 ShloobeR wrote: It's still in Beta, let's at least wait until 1.0 before writing it off due to lack of content.
they shouldn't be charging money for it in that case. As soon as they accept money, any criticism is completely valid. Seriously, anyone thinking about getting it - don't. Wait and see. I actually have my doubts they'll be able to make a good game out of this
They're charging you money presumably to offer a cheaper deal when it's released. It's almost comparable to pre-ordering a game for beta access.
On June 10 2013 17:37 ShloobeR wrote: It's still in Beta, let's at least wait until 1.0 before writing it off due to lack of content.
they shouldn't be charging money for it in that case. As soon as they accept money, any criticism is completely valid. Seriously, anyone thinking about getting it - don't. Wait and see. I actually have my doubts they'll be able to make a good game out of this
If your complaint is that there is not enough content in the Beta then that's one thing, but to write off a game for lack of content in the knowledge that it is still in beta is shortsighted If the game comes out at the same price as beta access then I agree that the way they handled the release was not very good, but most people I've talked to about this game seem to really enjoy it.
I guess we've just been talking to totally different people.
Opted to play Growth randomly, since I never play that kind of deck. It's nice so far, but still tough to decide what I'll end up playing the most.
I've seen some tense games so far. Won and lost a few games that could've gone either way on the last turn. Though I still hope they add some soft of mulligan because I also had quite some games that were decided because my opening hand wasn't really good and I didn't get any early creature cards. Though you could specifically build your deck for more cheap cards.
Also hoping to get some nice card draws from the store, but no luck so far. Also kinda sad that only Energy and Order cards are on weekly sale, they probably should at least offer 2 for all factions.
On June 10 2013 22:19 PandaCore wrote: Also kinda sad that only Energy and Order cards are on weekly sale, they probably should at least offer 2 for all factions.
I'm pretty sure that the singles offered for shard purchase are RNG'd. Looks like you just got an unlucky draw this week considering your deck of choice :-(.
I'm seriously considering purchasing this game as I really really like the pay structure after the initial investment. It's the way online CCG's should be in my opinion. Think I might wait on it and see what develops meta-wise/deck-wise.
If you are looking for specific cards, the trading channels is the best spot to look. Each trade channel is limited to 100 users at a time, so you have to manually join trading-2 or trading-3 ect. There is a work in progress price guide at http://scrollspc.byethost14.com/index.php I spent most of my trial reward money on random packs though so I would have stuff to trade, but if you know exactly what cards you want it may be better to just try to find good deals on them from traders. Most of them sell and buy for gold, rather than trading card for card.
On June 11 2013 00:03 karazax wrote: If you are looking for specific cards, the trading channels is the best spot to look. Each trade channel is limited to 100 users at a time, so you have to manually join trading-2 or trading-3 ect. There is a work in progress price guide at http://scrollspc.byethost14.com/index.php I spent most of my trial reward money on random packs though so I would have stuff to trade, but if you know exactly what cards you want it may be better to just try to find good deals on them from traders. Most of them sell and buy for gold, rather than trading card for card.
I got 3 speeds over the weekend by selling some of my cards and grinding, spent 900-1000g each.
I have been playing medium AI to get gold once I finished all the trials thru medium, since the games go faster than vs people. I can beat medium AI in about 10-15 minutes, while hard AI you will need a really good deck to beat consistently. I believe I get around 125g per win, so not that long to get 1000g if you enjoy playing anyway. I need to re-test again what the reward is vs easy AI though to see if that might be even more worth while. The hard trials don't seem to be time efficient for grinding gold with a starter deck.
So I've noticed that there really isn't any comprehensive and advanced discussion about this game. I'm a extremely competitive Yu-Gi-Oh! player and I can confidently say I'm one of the best players in NA. Not because I'm particularly skilled at a luck based card game, but because most people just suck at these kinds of games for whatever reason. I'm noticing the same trend in the Scrolls communities.
I'm playing Order, and right now I"m struggling just to beat either Hard AI or any Energy deck. I know from years of experience that I'm kind of in the limbo of "Your deck is bad" since I don't have playsets of good cards, nor the experience to fully identify what the good cards are.
The problem I'm seeing with the community is that no one else has bothered to do this. I mean there are only 45 Order cards in the entire game, it shouldn't be so elusive to understand what the best builds are and how to play them. So let's try discussing such things here?
From what I can see with Order: They have a theme of "When this card's countdown reaches 0" which as I interpret it is basically meant to be a game winner. You Speed an Honorable General and then swing with 7 guys for game. This is a combo, and all combos require setup.
The problem I see is that the setup this deck can do can be good, when you have all your creatures and waking stones and stuff set up, but can also go horribly horribly wrong as you draw hands of no creatures and lose the moment they put more creatures on the field than you do.
I'm also uncertain as to whether these boss monsters are even necessary for the deck. Instead of waiting to playing Speed on Honorable General or Royal Vanguard or Knight Scholar would it just be better to use it on Infantryman/Skirmisher/Spearmen?
What are other players doing with Order and are there any Order players high in the rankings?
Also does Mojang have an official feedback site? Or is it just Scrolls Fans? Is there a website where Mojang talks about what direction they plan to take the game or anything at all?
On June 12 2013 08:10 AnotherRandom wrote: So I've noticed that there really isn't any comprehensive and advanced discussion about this game. I'm a extremely competitive Yu-Gi-Oh! player and I can confidently say I'm one of the best players in NA. Not because I'm particularly skilled at a luck based card game, but because most people just suck at these kinds of games for whatever reason. I'm noticing the same trend in the Scrolls communities.
I'm playing Order, and right now I"m struggling just to beat either Hard AI or any Energy deck. I know from years of experience that I'm kind of in the limbo of "Your deck is bad" since I don't have playsets of good cards, nor the experience to fully identify what the good cards are.
The problem I'm seeing with the community is that no one else has bothered to do this. I mean there are only 45 Order cards in the entire game, it shouldn't be so elusive to understand what the best builds are and how to play them. So let's try discussing such things here?
From what I can see with Order: They have a theme of "When this card's countdown reaches 0" which as I interpret it is basically meant to be a game winner. You Speed an Honorable General and then swing with 7 guys for game. This is a combo, and all combos require setup.
The problem I see is that the setup this deck can do can be good, when you have all your creatures and waking stones and stuff set up, but can also go horribly horribly wrong as you draw hands of no creatures and lose the moment they put more creatures on the field than you do.
I'm also uncertain as to whether these boss monsters are even necessary for the deck. Instead of waiting to playing Speed on Honorable General or Royal Vanguard or Knight Scholar would it just be better to use it on Infantryman/Skirmisher/Spearmen?
What are other players doing with Order and are there any Order players high in the rankings?
Also does Mojang have an official feedback site? Or is it just Scrolls Fans? Is there a website where Mojang talks about what direction they plan to take the game or anything at all?
Let me preface by saying that I have mastered my fair share of board games and vidcons myself and completely agree with your notion that most contemporary western gamers are mediocre at best. This is partly the result of their constant exposure to low quality western product instead of the superior japanese games, like Yu-Gi-Oh! (henceforce referred to as YGO as it is known in the japanese cardcon scene). It truly can't be stressed enough that these circumstances have led to western vidconners becoming extraodinarily lazy and displaying a distinct lack of dedication, as can be seen in the Scrolls community. Preface end.
At first I thought the game showed a lot of promise, considered it borrowed (to avoid the phrase 'blatantly stole' - a small joke on my part) so many mechanics from YGO. The creatures, the spells, even trap cards. The ideas are nothing new and don't compare to the works of art that are japanese vidcons. There obviously haven't been any people putting thought into the gameatall.
It is on people like us then, who continuously wade through the hordes of imbeciles we encounter in the online world, to forge the foundation of the game as it is to be played for generations to come. Let me apologise at this point, for I usually refrain from using such harsh language; but the inability of the Scrolls community to properly analyse the game and establish the strategic foundations leaves me with no choice but to call them illiterate baka-gaijins. There, I said it, and I stand by it. In a japanese vidcon this sort of attitude would be swiftly purged, which again shows that this is a result of bad upbringing and corrupted western culture.
I see you have already ventured to formulate the strategic basis for the Order deck, which to my knowledge is entirely undefined as ofyet. I think it is fitting that you chose Order as your deck, as the game already mentions it is the faction most suited to cerebral people, which obviously refers to you and me as opposed to these poor hillbillies in the Scrolls community. Personally I have opted to go for the Energy faction, as I immediately realised the faction involves a lot of strategy and decisions, thereby maximising my opportunity to prove my superior vidcon skills. My theory holds strong as I discern that the most commonly played deck is based on Growth, a faction of brute force suited to these barbarians.
edit: In writing this I have realised that we have much in common and have build up a bond towards you to the point that I now consider you a friend. As you probably know it is hard for people like us - who have experienced the immaculate japanese culture and adopted it into their lives - are vastly superior to those around us and therefore and therefore have trouble entering mutually beneficial relationships. I hope that our new friendship will be fruitful and lead us both to happiness.
On June 12 2013 08:10 AnotherRandom wrote: So I've noticed that there really isn't any comprehensive and advanced discussion about this game. I'm a extremely competitive Yu-Gi-Oh! player and I can confidently say I'm one of the best players in NA. Not because I'm particularly skilled at a luck based card game, but because most people just suck at these kinds of games for whatever reason. I'm noticing the same trend in the Scrolls communities.
I'm playing Order, and right now I"m struggling just to beat either Hard AI or any Energy deck. I know from years of experience that I'm kind of in the limbo of "Your deck is bad" since I don't have playsets of good cards, nor the experience to fully identify what the good cards are.
The problem I'm seeing with the community is that no one else has bothered to do this. I mean there are only 45 Order cards in the entire game, it shouldn't be so elusive to understand what the best builds are and how to play them. So let's try discussing such things here?
From what I can see with Order: They have a theme of "When this card's countdown reaches 0" which as I interpret it is basically meant to be a game winner. You Speed an Honorable General and then swing with 7 guys for game. This is a combo, and all combos require setup.
The problem I see is that the setup this deck can do can be good, when you have all your creatures and waking stones and stuff set up, but can also go horribly horribly wrong as you draw hands of no creatures and lose the moment they put more creatures on the field than you do.
I'm also uncertain as to whether these boss monsters are even necessary for the deck. Instead of waiting to playing Speed on Honorable General or Royal Vanguard or Knight Scholar would it just be better to use it on Infantryman/Skirmisher/Spearmen?
What are other players doing with Order and are there any Order players high in the rankings?
Also does Mojang have an official feedback site? Or is it just Scrolls Fans? Is there a website where Mojang talks about what direction they plan to take the game or anything at all?
Let me preface by saying that I have mastered my fair share of board games and vidcons myself and completely agree with your notion that most contemporary western gamers are mediocre at best. This is partly the result of their constant exposure to low quality western product instead of the superior japanese games, like Yu-Gi-Oh! (henceforce referred to as YGO as it is known in the japanese cardcon scene). It truly can't be stressed enough that these circumstances have led to western vidconners becoming extraodinarily lazy and displaying a distinct lack of dedication, as can be seen in the Scrolls community. Preface end.
At first I thought the game showed a lot of promise, considered it borrowed (to avoid the phrase 'blatantly stole' - a small joke on my part) so many mechanics from YGO. The creatures, the spells, even trap cards. The ideas are nothing new and don't compare to the works of art that are japanese vidcons. There obviously haven't been any people putting thought into the gameatall.
It is on people like us then, who continuously wade through the hordes of imbeciles we encounter in the online world, to forge the foundation of the game as it is to be played for generations to come. Let me apologise at this point, for I usually refrain from using such harsh language; but the inability of the Scrolls community to properly analyse the game and establish the strategic foundations leaves me with no choice but to call them illiterate baka-gaijins. There, I said it, and I stand by it. In a japanese vidcon this sort of attitude would be swiftly purged, which again shows that this is a result of bad upbringing and corrupted western culture.
I see you have already ventured to formulate the strategic basis for the Order deck, which to my knowledge is entirely undefined as ofyet. I think it is fitting that you chose Order as your deck, as the game already mentions it is the faction most suited to cerebral people, which obviously refers to you and me as opposed to these poor hillbillies in the Scrolls community. Personally I have opted to go for the Energy faction, as I immediately realised the faction involves a lot of strategy and decisions, thereby maximising my opportunity to prove my superior vidcon skills. My theory holds strong as I discern that the most commonly played deck is based on Growth, a faction of brute force suited to these barbarians.
edit: In writing this I have realised that we have much in common and have build up a bond towards you to the point that I now consider you a friend. As you probably know it is hard for people like us - who have experienced the immaculate japanese culture and adopted it into their lives - are vastly superior to those around us and therefore and therefore have trouble entering mutually beneficial relationships. I hope that our new friendship will be fruitful and lead us both to happiness.
Oyasuminasai!
/bow... your subtlety skill is surpassed only by your YGO skills, and average western game-player analysis...
teach me your ways.
I don't think I will ever EVER be able to wield the powers of subtlety and sarcasm, in a manner even worthy of being noticed by yourself, but i am pledging my life as a disciple, if you would be willing to impart your knowledge upon your humble servant.
The problem which made me stop playing: In lategame both players have 9(+) ressoucres while holding 1 card, so you have to go for 2 new cards and if you roll 2 lowlevel/enchants ur basically dead. Games change/end within 1 drawing round. I get that there has to be high level of RNG and that its more about big hits instead of getting small leads here and there, but maybe thats not the case with other Cardgames?
If you have 9 resources and one card (and if that happens then you've either just made a huge combo or you have terribly mismanaged) then I usually prefer to sac scrolls for 1 or 2 turns in a row without playing anything
its better to burn 9 energy in a single round then 3 energy over 3 rounds usually, just because it doesn't give your opponent any time to react to the individual cards.
Of course if you need to play those cards to survive then you're just in a bad position anyway. 9 energy and nothing on the board to give you the flexibility to NOT play anything means you are getting wrecked
Of course luck plays a big factor in every cardgame. I tend to play like shloober suggests tho. Most of the time it's not worth getting one or two cards out that can instantly be countered. If you are not in immediate danger of dying just save up ressources and cards for a bigger combo or push.
MTG is about 100 times more sophisticated than Scrolls at this point. That's expected of course since scrolls is new and still in beta. The problem is that i don't think the mechanics as they are allow for great gameplay At least not beyond the first couple of weeks. They need to overhaul huge parts of the game or implement major changes/additions in future patches for this to have any longevity or compete with other TCGs out there.
I think just a bigger board could make the game more interesting and create more strategic play (with scrolls adjusted so they dont become useless, i.e. lobbers). If on the other hand they want to focus on deck-building they need to implement a LOT more in terms of quantity and diversity because right now basically every deck is the same and unfortunately every game plays out very similar as well.
On June 12 2013 08:10 AnotherRandom wrote: So I've noticed that there really isn't any comprehensive and advanced discussion about this game. I'm a extremely competitive Yu-Gi-Oh! player and I can confidently say I'm one of the best players in NA. Not because I'm particularly skilled at a luck based card game, but because most people just suck at these kinds of games for whatever reason. I'm noticing the same trend in the Scrolls communities.
I'm playing Order, and right now I"m struggling just to beat either Hard AI or any Energy deck. I know from years of experience that I'm kind of in the limbo of "Your deck is bad" since I don't have playsets of good cards, nor the experience to fully identify what the good cards are.
The problem I'm seeing with the community is that no one else has bothered to do this. I mean there are only 45 Order cards in the entire game, it shouldn't be so elusive to understand what the best builds are and how to play them. So let's try discussing such things here?
From what I can see with Order: They have a theme of "When this card's countdown reaches 0" which as I interpret it is basically meant to be a game winner. You Speed an Honorable General and then swing with 7 guys for game. This is a combo, and all combos require setup.
The problem I see is that the setup this deck can do can be good, when you have all your creatures and waking stones and stuff set up, but can also go horribly horribly wrong as you draw hands of no creatures and lose the moment they put more creatures on the field than you do.
I'm also uncertain as to whether these boss monsters are even necessary for the deck. Instead of waiting to playing Speed on Honorable General or Royal Vanguard or Knight Scholar would it just be better to use it on Infantryman/Skirmisher/Spearmen?
What are other players doing with Order and are there any Order players high in the rankings?
Also does Mojang have an official feedback site? Or is it just Scrolls Fans? Is there a website where Mojang talks about what direction they plan to take the game or anything at all?
Let me preface by saying that I have mastered my fair share of board games and vidcons myself and completely agree with your notion that most contemporary western gamers are mediocre at best. This is partly the result of their constant exposure to low quality western product instead of the superior japanese games, like Yu-Gi-Oh! (henceforce referred to as YGO as it is known in the japanese cardcon scene). It truly can't be stressed enough that these circumstances have led to western vidconners becoming extraodinarily lazy and displaying a distinct lack of dedication, as can be seen in the Scrolls community. Preface end.
At first I thought the game showed a lot of promise, considered it borrowed (to avoid the phrase 'blatantly stole' - a small joke on my part) so many mechanics from YGO. The creatures, the spells, even trap cards. The ideas are nothing new and don't compare to the works of art that are japanese vidcons. There obviously haven't been any people putting thought into the gameatall.
It is on people like us then, who continuously wade through the hordes of imbeciles we encounter in the online world, to forge the foundation of the game as it is to be played for generations to come. Let me apologise at this point, for I usually refrain from using such harsh language; but the inability of the Scrolls community to properly analyse the game and establish the strategic foundations leaves me with no choice but to call them illiterate baka-gaijins. There, I said it, and I stand by it. In a japanese vidcon this sort of attitude would be swiftly purged, which again shows that this is a result of bad upbringing and corrupted western culture.
I see you have already ventured to formulate the strategic basis for the Order deck, which to my knowledge is entirely undefined as ofyet. I think it is fitting that you chose Order as your deck, as the game already mentions it is the faction most suited to cerebral people, which obviously refers to you and me as opposed to these poor hillbillies in the Scrolls community. Personally I have opted to go for the Energy faction, as I immediately realised the faction involves a lot of strategy and decisions, thereby maximising my opportunity to prove my superior vidcon skills. My theory holds strong as I discern that the most commonly played deck is based on Growth, a faction of brute force suited to these barbarians.
edit: In writing this I have realised that we have much in common and have build up a bond towards you to the point that I now consider you a friend. As you probably know it is hard for people like us - who have experienced the immaculate japanese culture and adopted it into their lives - are vastly superior to those around us and therefore and therefore have trouble entering mutually beneficial relationships. I hope that our new friendship will be fruitful and lead us both to happiness.
Oyasuminasai!
Baka-gaijins. Oh man you just didn't go there. Holy shit man. I get baka, and In some extreme cases gaijin. But you never roll both dude. To damn much
On June 12 2013 14:24 mTwRINE wrote: The problem which made me stop playing: In lategame both players have 9(+) ressoucres while holding 1 card, so you have to go for 2 new cards and if you roll 2 lowlevel/enchants ur basically dead. Games change/end within 1 drawing round. I get that there has to be high level of RNG and that its more about big hits instead of getting small leads here and there, but maybe thats not the case with other Cardgames?
Maybe you should start getting double saccing a lot earlier? If you need to go to 9 res, I think you deck might need a tweak
On June 12 2013 08:10 AnotherRandom wrote: So I've noticed that there really isn't any comprehensive and advanced discussion about this game. I'm a extremely competitive Yu-Gi-Oh! player and I can confidently say I'm one of the best players in NA. Not because I'm particularly skilled at a luck based card game, but because most people just suck at these kinds of games for whatever reason. I'm noticing the same trend in the Scrolls communities.
I'm playing Order, and right now I"m struggling just to beat either Hard AI or any Energy deck. I know from years of experience that I'm kind of in the limbo of "Your deck is bad" since I don't have playsets of good cards, nor the experience to fully identify what the good cards are.
The problem I'm seeing with the community is that no one else has bothered to do this. I mean there are only 45 Order cards in the entire game, it shouldn't be so elusive to understand what the best builds are and how to play them. So let's try discussing such things here?
From what I can see with Order: They have a theme of "When this card's countdown reaches 0" which as I interpret it is basically meant to be a game winner. You Speed an Honorable General and then swing with 7 guys for game. This is a combo, and all combos require setup.
The problem I see is that the setup this deck can do can be good, when you have all your creatures and waking stones and stuff set up, but can also go horribly horribly wrong as you draw hands of no creatures and lose the moment they put more creatures on the field than you do.
I'm also uncertain as to whether these boss monsters are even necessary for the deck. Instead of waiting to playing Speed on Honorable General or Royal Vanguard or Knight Scholar would it just be better to use it on Infantryman/Skirmisher/Spearmen?
What are other players doing with Order and are there any Order players high in the rankings?
Also does Mojang have an official feedback site? Or is it just Scrolls Fans? Is there a website where Mojang talks about what direction they plan to take the game or anything at all?
Here is one of the top rated players (was number one earlier this week, but he just went on vacation so probably will drop during his abscence) Order deck:
Personally I am not sure if Imperial Resources is worth playing. Seems like a win more card. Not bad necessarily, but the healing is often trivial, and while it can set you up for the next turn nicely, it usually means playing nothing else that turn, often at a time where not playing anything can be punishing if you aren't already winning, and the necessity to get to 7 resources fairly early or it's a dead card before then.
On June 12 2013 14:24 mTwRINE wrote: The problem which made me stop playing: In lategame both players have 9(+) ressoucres while holding 1 card, so you have to go for 2 new cards and if you roll 2 lowlevel/enchants ur basically dead. Games change/end within 1 drawing round. I get that there has to be high level of RNG and that its more about big hits instead of getting small leads here and there, but maybe thats not the case with other Cardgames?
you need to put cards in your hand that increase your hand-size rapidly. There seems to be quite a few cards that do this.
Anyone messed around with hybrid decks? I thought it was neat until I found out your "global" spells only seem to effect their specific color and not all the pieces on the board. So there's basically very little synergy to be had.. at least that's what I'm finding so far
edit: and Energy is most definitely completely overpowered. It pisses me off to no end that you have a game board where positioning/blocking seems to matter, and then people can throw out spells that completely wipes out your defenses in one turn. Just the core of this game is completely trash, it seems like.. why have a board if it really doesn't do anything of importance? It's just a gimmick
On June 12 2013 14:24 mTwRINE wrote: The problem which made me stop playing: In lategame both players have 9(+) ressoucres while holding 1 card, so you have to go for 2 new cards and if you roll 2 lowlevel/enchants ur basically dead. Games change/end within 1 drawing round. I get that there has to be high level of RNG and that its more about big hits instead of getting small leads here and there, but maybe thats not the case with other Cardgames?
you need to put cards in your hand that increase your hand-size rapidly. There seems to be quite a few cards that do this.
Anyone messed around with hybrid decks? I thought it was neat until I found out your "global" spells only seem to effect their specific color and not all the pieces on the board. So there's basically very little synergy to be had.. at least that's what I'm finding so far
edit: and Energy is most definitely completely overpowered. It pisses me off to no end that you have a game board where positioning/blocking seems to matter, and then people can throw out spells that completely wipes out your defenses in one turn. Just the core of this game is completely trash, it seems like.. why have a board if it really doesn't do anything of importance? It's just a gimmick
Wait so you're saying something like Bombard would not work on a crossbowman? That would be silly if it is the case.
Regarding Energy I disagree. Every colour can completely turn around the board state in a single turn.
I haven't played much with multi color decks so far, but considering that spells like decimate, that does 1 damage to all creatures in a row, hits your own creatures too, I would also be very surprised if they didn't effect cross faction.
On June 12 2013 21:38 ShloobeR wrote: Is that really true about Spells not being inter-faction?
I'm 99% sure I've seen that happen but I can't exactly recall when I Would be incredibly surprised if that isn't true..
some spells work and some spells don't.. like rally only worked on growth cards, not on the cards of a different color. Or maybe I missed something, I tried this at 3 am.
On June 12 2013 14:24 mTwRINE wrote: The problem which made me stop playing: In lategame both players have 9(+) ressoucres while holding 1 card, so you have to go for 2 new cards and if you roll 2 lowlevel/enchants ur basically dead. Games change/end within 1 drawing round. I get that there has to be high level of RNG and that its more about big hits instead of getting small leads here and there, but maybe thats not the case with other Cardgames?
you need to put cards in your hand that increase your hand-size rapidly. There seems to be quite a few cards that do this.
Anyone messed around with hybrid decks? I thought it was neat until I found out your "global" spells only seem to effect their specific color and not all the pieces on the board. So there's basically very little synergy to be had.. at least that's what I'm finding so far
edit: and Energy is most definitely completely overpowered. It pisses me off to no end that you have a game board where positioning/blocking seems to matter, and then people can throw out spells that completely wipes out your defenses in one turn. Just the core of this game is completely trash, it seems like.. why have a board if it really doesn't do anything of importance? It's just a gimmick
Every colour can completely turn around the board state in a single turn.
that's not a good thing. Basically, the board doesn't really matter that much if you get lucky with the draw. So you're trying to be strategical, but then dumb luck fucks it all up. It's extremely aggravating
On June 12 2013 21:38 ShloobeR wrote: Is that really true about Spells not being inter-faction?
I'm 99% sure I've seen that happen but I can't exactly recall when I Would be incredibly surprised if that isn't true..
some spells work and some spells don't.. like rally only worked on growth cards, not on the cards of a different color. Or maybe I missed something, I tried this at 3 am.
On June 12 2013 14:24 mTwRINE wrote: The problem which made me stop playing: In lategame both players have 9(+) ressoucres while holding 1 card, so you have to go for 2 new cards and if you roll 2 lowlevel/enchants ur basically dead. Games change/end within 1 drawing round. I get that there has to be high level of RNG and that its more about big hits instead of getting small leads here and there, but maybe thats not the case with other Cardgames?
you need to put cards in your hand that increase your hand-size rapidly. There seems to be quite a few cards that do this.
Anyone messed around with hybrid decks? I thought it was neat until I found out your "global" spells only seem to effect their specific color and not all the pieces on the board. So there's basically very little synergy to be had.. at least that's what I'm finding so far
edit: and Energy is most definitely completely overpowered. It pisses me off to no end that you have a game board where positioning/blocking seems to matter, and then people can throw out spells that completely wipes out your defenses in one turn. Just the core of this game is completely trash, it seems like.. why have a board if it really doesn't do anything of importance? It's just a gimmick
Every colour can completely turn around the board state in a single turn.
that's not a good thing. Basically, the board doesn't really matter that much if you get lucky with the draw. So you're trying to be strategical, but then dumb luck fucks it all up. It's extremely aggravating
The idea there being that board control is not the be-all and end-all of the game At heart it's still a TCG
Yes, you have to strategise both on the board and in your hand. Discard cards that aren't useful for the current board state so they get replaced with cards that are. I agree that there should be slightly more card filtering effects (like Eye of Eagle or Summons) around so its less luck based.
You have to be careful with these kind of mechanics or you will end up with decks that can completely control their draw which is obviously bad for the game. This is what happens when card draw in this game gets too strong:
On June 12 2013 21:38 ShloobeR wrote: Is that really true about Spells not being inter-faction?
I'm 99% sure I've seen that happen but I can't exactly recall when I Would be incredibly surprised if that isn't true..
some spells work and some spells don't.. like rally only worked on growth cards, not on the cards of a different color. Or maybe I missed something, I tried this at 3 am.
On June 12 2013 21:23 ain wrote:
On June 12 2013 21:02 Quotidian wrote:
On June 12 2013 14:24 mTwRINE wrote: The problem which made me stop playing: In lategame both players have 9(+) ressoucres while holding 1 card, so you have to go for 2 new cards and if you roll 2 lowlevel/enchants ur basically dead. Games change/end within 1 drawing round. I get that there has to be high level of RNG and that its more about big hits instead of getting small leads here and there, but maybe thats not the case with other Cardgames?
you need to put cards in your hand that increase your hand-size rapidly. There seems to be quite a few cards that do this.
Anyone messed around with hybrid decks? I thought it was neat until I found out your "global" spells only seem to effect their specific color and not all the pieces on the board. So there's basically very little synergy to be had.. at least that's what I'm finding so far
edit: and Energy is most definitely completely overpowered. It pisses me off to no end that you have a game board where positioning/blocking seems to matter, and then people can throw out spells that completely wipes out your defenses in one turn. Just the core of this game is completely trash, it seems like.. why have a board if it really doesn't do anything of importance? It's just a gimmick
Every colour can completely turn around the board state in a single turn.
that's not a good thing. Basically, the board doesn't really matter that much if you get lucky with the draw. So you're trying to be strategical, but then dumb luck fucks it all up. It's extremely aggravating
The idea there being that board control is not the be-all and end-all of the game At heart it's still a TCG
it's the thing you interact with the most, and it should be much more important to the game. You win by dominating the board and killing your opponent's idols after all. It's like having a chessboard where the other player can at willy-nilly completely rearrange the board. It's just bullshit and blatantly bad game design.
But there are a ton of really bad/dumb cards in the game. Like you can be playing a buffing style, and then suddenly your key unit is worthless because your opponent was lucky enough to get a purify card. And then there's those structures that only take 1 damage, so you basically have to rely on the horribly mechanic of shifting the board around to make any progress. And it's not like SC2 where you kind of know the scope of strategies your opponent can do ahead of time. This piece of shit game is the most random, retarded thing ever and I'm not going to give it many more chances. There are better CCGs out there and the novel things this game tries to introduce aren't actually working in a good way at the moment. Nor do I suspect they ever will.
Sounds like you have made up your mind, but personally I think there are degrees of what you are describing in every card game, and part of "knowing" what is going to be in the other deck is the meta game, which only happens after the game has been out a while and you are in the upper tiers of rankings where the players aren't just throwing together decks with random cards because they have limited card pools.
It's not really "random" if someone purifies your unit with multiple enchantments on it though. It means you put too many eggs in one basket, and should have spread your enchants across multiple creatures, or stacked them at a time when the damage they would do is worth the risk. Since only order even has purify, you also know if there is a risk of them playing it ahead of time. Pretty much every CCG card game I can think of has cards in almost every faction capable of getting rid of a single creature, so stacking all your buffs on one guy is often a bad idea.
I do kind of agree that cards like Rumble which just randomly move multiple cards in different directions are not great though. I'm still having fun with the game so far, and it's still in beta so things will change over time. And I'm not investing nearly as much money as I would on almost any other CCG that isn't a free Ipad game. In the end every game that has ever been made is going to have someone who hates it, which makes it great that there are lots of games for us to choose from.
On June 07 2013 12:07 TheYango wrote: Yeah I'm really apprehensive about this, seeing as the only thing I have to go on is that it's a Mojang game (and one that's totally different from Minecraft). I would have loved to have a way to try this without paying $20.
This is going to have to really do some big things if it expects to turn heads away from Hex, Solforge, or Hearthstone.
This. I've already heard a lot of bad things about the game itself, let alone with the people bringing it to us. I'd be very careful before buying in to this; I'd rather play Hex a couple months from now or Magic Online, which is having 11th anniversary events and Modern Masters events soon.
I guess I just don't see them as mutually exclusive. $20 is trivial compared to the costs of Magic or Hex, and I would say that I have gotten my money's worth even if it may or may not be something I am still playing regularly in the long term.
From what I gather, for $21 you get access to the game and a preconstructed deck? The rest is grinding for new cards, or spending real money to get some? Anything else included with initial purchase that I missed?
For $20 you get one preconstructed deck and 2000 gold. You can spend $30 and get all 3 precontructed decks and the random cards for the week, but there is no option to buy packs or gold for real money. So the only other thing you can spend real money on is 5 random cards that are available each week. If you play thru all the ai challenge trials will get you a bunch of extra gold, and every game vs people or AI decks gives you gold, so it builds up pretty quickly.
On June 13 2013 01:00 karazax wrote: I guess I just don't see them as mutually exclusive. $20 is trivial compared to the costs of Magic or Hex, and I would say that I have gotten my money's worth even if it may or may not be something I am still playing regularly in the long term.
$20 is trivial without any other costs in mind.
If you enjoy card games I don't see why anyone would wait for another to come out. You will very easily get your money's worth on this purchase. How cheap does a game need to be for someone to buy it these days? Free it seems.
i've been having a ton of fun with this game, its also my first CCG Question, are 2 race decks viable? I messing about with energy/nature, but im not having very much succes. And if you go pure energy, what are cards that you just have to have, or that you never put in your deck?
On June 13 2013 01:25 TheYango wrote: It's not so much that I think it's too expensive, more than the fact that I have no way to try it and can only go based on word-of-mouth.
$20 is cheap enough for me to buy, but it's not cheap enough for me to impulse-buy. There's a difference.
I see what you're saying but is it really only word of mouth at this point?
All other tutorial/introduction videos aside, Totalbiscuit has produced 1.5 hours worth of content on the game. There are community forums for the game that you can read (scrollsfans.com) and 7 pages of criticism here as well.
The only restricting factor for me would be the lack of cards but there are still enough intricacies with the current card pool that will leave you sitting at the deck builder thinking of the perfect combinations for every situation.
On June 13 2013 01:25 Garfailed wrote: i've been having a ton of fun with this game, its also my first CCG Question, are 2 race decks viable? I messing about with energy/nature, but im not having very much succes. And if you go pure energy, what are cards that you just have to have, or that you never put in your deck?
I haven't done much with multi color, but some people have had success with them. It seems the different Memorial cards are required to help with the different mana colors, which give mana when you play them. Splashing a few key cards from another color, especially 3 or lower cost cards will be easier than having a more even split. There are some multi color deck discussion and ideas here: http://www.scrollsfans.com/forums/scrolls/discussion/26068-multi-color-deck-impossible?page=2
Some of the most popular cards include Thunder Surge, Violent Dispersal, Blind Rage, Burn, Cannon Automaton, Gravelock elder with all the other gravelocks, Hellspitter Mortar, Potion of Resistance, but I'm sure there are several viable builds out there. You can check this Price Guide to get a ball park idea of what common asking prices in the trade channels are. Of course you can find traders selling for much more or less than those prices on occasion, but at the very least they give you a rough idea of the demand for different cards.
I think 2 colour decks actually might be better than mono at the moment as the memorials let you ramp up resources which means you will almost always win the long game (and the majority of games go on for a decent while). Plus you get access to a much wider card pool whereas if you stick to your colour your options can be quite limited.
I played against an energy/growth deck that was mainly energy but had growth for gravehawk and dryadic power. Seemed to be quite effective.
I think Order is the strongest atm. But i play Growth/energy. Because Death cap Berserk on Gravelock Outcasts with plating among various enchantments is hilarious. attack every turn, heal every turn, kill every turn. and yet. everytime i play the game i end up losing because i just sit there as they get every card they need to defeat what i have on the board every turn, after dealing almost all the damage i need to win. Its the most frustrating game to play because it feels 100% luck based when you lose. no matter what.
I wonder if they thought about people who are losing who refuse to end their turn, so you have to wait out the time limit round after round... yeah, that's going on right now. Not the smartest system in the world.. I started doing it back to the fucker though. Watching Giantbomb E3 stuff while I wait.
On June 13 2013 08:12 BliptiX wrote: Does Dyradic Power work with Waking Stones? I wonder if growth players would appreciate being against 6 hp Waking Stones with Vitriol Aura.
You could just put a couple druid burial grounds in the middle of 3 waking stones. and watch people cry. they need 3 people attacking every turn to even break the stones. not that it matters when growth is probably the weakest deck at getting that third idol.
I don't really know anything about this type of games... how similar is Scrolls to Hearthstone from Blizzard and Magic: The Gathering? Are they the same genere?
On June 13 2013 08:12 BliptiX wrote: Does Dyradic Power work with Waking Stones? I wonder if growth players would appreciate being against 6 hp Waking Stones with Vitriol Aura.
You could just put a couple druid burial grounds in the middle of 3 waking stones. and watch people cry. they need 3 people attacking every turn to even break the stones. not that it matters when growth is probably the weakest deck at getting that third idol.
I keep 3 tick bombs in my deck instead of incendiaries exclusively for that reason
On June 13 2013 08:36 Locke- wrote: I don't really know anything about this type of games... how similar is Scrolls to Hearthstone from Blizzard and Magic: The Gathering? Are they the same genere?
I haven't looked at Hearthstone that closely, but Scrolls has some similarities to Magic, with quite a few differences. The similar premises include the idea that you are creating your own deck of cards which include creatures, enchantments and spells to try and attack your opponent with. With Scrolls you have a hex board with 5 different lanes and 3 rows in each lane, and your creatures can move on the board to block, attack or try and avoid attacks. Each player has 5 idols at the back of each lane, and if you destroy 3 of your opponents idols you win. With Magic there is no board, and creatures can choose to block any attacking creature normally (there are exceptions such as flying creatures can only be blocked by other flying creatures, and some creatures are unblockable, ect). You win by reducing your opponent's life total to zero from the starting point of 20. Magic has instant effects which allow you to take actions on the other players turn to do things like counter spell one of their cards for example, where Scrolls you can only act on your turn. Creatures attack every turn in magic except for the turn they are first played, where in Scrolls different creatures have different cool downs on how fast they attack. In Magic you play land cards to get mana that you use to cast spells, and usually you can only play one per turn. For example with green you play a forest which will give you one green mana each turn when you tap (use) it. In scrolls you can discard any card in your hand to increase your mana total by 1 for the rest of the game, with that total replenishing to full each turn. Or you can choose to discard a card from your hand to draw two cards. You can only do one of the two, and only once per turn. Magic has been around a lot longer so the card pool is huge in comparison, and generally speaking it will be much more expensive to play. I'm sure there are some other things I am forgetting, but hopefully that helps some.
There is a large variance, but 2 players who know what they are doing and are fairly evenly matched is probably around 30 minutes, but I don't pay that close attention to the clock. Sometimes much shorter or longer though. There is a time limit of 3 minutes per turn, and early turns should take 30 seconds or less in most cases as you can't do too much other than play a resource and maybe one or two cards, but there is always the chance you play a slow player who takes close to the full 3 minutes every turn. If I am playing vs the AI, I can usually finish in between 10-20 minutes depending on how good my deck is and what level AI I picked. I haven't paid that close attention to how many turns the average game lasts, but if I had to guess I would say around 15-25, and the AI is decent for testing out decks and a quick way to grind gold.
So my last ranked game EvE went into round 30 and the other guy just surrendered because it was going on forever. I was sitting in 12 resources with 2 lightning strikes and 2 violent dispersals in my hand and it was basically just anything that got put on the board by either side was just immediately removed from play.
Energy's removal ability seems very silly once you get to like 10+ energy.
On June 14 2013 17:13 ShloobeR wrote: So my last ranked game EvE went into round 30 and the other guy just surrendered because it was going on forever. I was sitting in 12 resources with 2 lightning strikes and 2 violent dispersals in my hand and it was basically just anything that got put on the board by either side was just immediately removed from play.
Energy's removal ability seems very silly once you get to like 10+ energy.
The same is true for Orders and Growths abilities to churn out creatures at that stage. I have lost games because I kept drawing removal, while my Order opponent kept drawing low mana cost creatures. I simply couldn't deal with them all, because at some point you have to rely on creatures to deal with the board state or it becomes inefficient.
On June 14 2013 17:13 ShloobeR wrote: So my last ranked game EvE went into round 30 and the other guy just surrendered because it was going on forever. I was sitting in 12 resources with 2 lightning strikes and 2 violent dispersals in my hand and it was basically just anything that got put on the board by either side was just immediately removed from play.
Energy's removal ability seems very silly once you get to like 10+ energy.
The same is true for Orders and Growths abilities to churn out creatures at that stage. I have lost games because I kept drawing removal, while my Order opponent kept drawing low mana cost creatures. I simply couldn't deal with them all, because at some point you have to rely on creatures to deal with the board state or it becomes inefficient.
if you dont draw any creatures sure but when you're playing energy you basically just have to sacrifice 2 of your idols from the start, and when you do that lightning surge will basically hit everything on the board.
On June 14 2013 17:13 ShloobeR wrote: So my last ranked game EvE went into round 30 and the other guy just surrendered because it was going on forever. I was sitting in 12 resources with 2 lightning strikes and 2 violent dispersals in my hand and it was basically just anything that got put on the board by either side was just immediately removed from play.
Energy's removal ability seems very silly once you get to like 10+ energy.
The same is true for Orders and Growths abilities to churn out creatures at that stage. I have lost games because I kept drawing removal, while my Order opponent kept drawing low mana cost creatures. I simply couldn't deal with them all, because at some point you have to rely on creatures to deal with the board state or it becomes inefficient.
if you dont draw any creatures sure but when you're playing energy you basically just have to sacrifice 2 of your idols from the start, and when you do that lightning surge will basically hit everything on the board.
An opponent who prioritises your idols is generally easy to deal with as Energy. The way it works is that if the other player doesn't stop you from setting up in the center he will have a lot of trouble doing just about anything. Likewise as an Energy player you can't let the opponent amass their Growth/Order units or their God Hand/Honourable General will wreck you. You have to consider the board state before you can think about attacking idols, so losing idols early is pretty rare for me. Even then it's always the middle one if my opponent manages to power through all my stuff.
On June 14 2013 17:13 ShloobeR wrote: So my last ranked game EvE went into round 30 and the other guy just surrendered because it was going on forever. I was sitting in 12 resources with 2 lightning strikes and 2 violent dispersals in my hand and it was basically just anything that got put on the board by either side was just immediately removed from play.
Energy's removal ability seems very silly once you get to like 10+ energy.
The same is true for Orders and Growths abilities to churn out creatures at that stage. I have lost games because I kept drawing removal, while my Order opponent kept drawing low mana cost creatures. I simply couldn't deal with them all, because at some point you have to rely on creatures to deal with the board state or it becomes inefficient.
if you dont draw any creatures sure but when you're playing energy you basically just have to sacrifice 2 of your idols from the start, and when you do that lightning surge will basically hit everything on the board.
An opponent who prioritises your idols is generally easy to deal with as Energy. The way it works is that if the other player doesn't stop you from setting up in the center he will have a lot of trouble doing just about anything. Likewise as an Energy player you can't let the opponent amass their Growth/Order units or their God Hand/Honourable General will wreck you. You have to consider the board state before you can think about attacking idols, so losing idols early is pretty rare for me. Even then it's always the middle one if my opponent manages to power through all my stuff.
What I mean is that as energy I basically disregard 2 of my idols (bottom two or top two), especially vs growth because if you try to fight on 5 lanes at once you're just at a disadvantage, so as energy you can 'constrict' the fight to 3 lanes as you please and give yourself 3 lanes to build up on. The other player will not focus on the idols in those other 2 lanes either because as you said, they lose out if they do so, but if they want to fight my units then they need to clump theirs together on those 3 lanes which sets up lightning storms / blasts which become very strong vs. clumped up growth/order units.
I guess to be more exact, you are sacrificing 2 lanes rather than 2 idols.
Bought the game and so far I'm fairly disappointed with it. I picked Order as my starter deck and severely regret it. Every time I go up against a Growth or Energy deck, they just annihilate me. Either their board is filled with units within no time or they're nuking all my stuff into submission. If I don't get the perfect starting hand then my board is effectively empty for turns upon turns and I'm holding 4 or 5 enchantment cards which do nothing because there's nothing to cast them on. Meanwhile Growth and Energy can use their cards immediately.
Now I have to grind up 6500 gold just to pick a different starter deck and then grind more gold before I can buy any new cards. I suppose I could spend my gold on more Order cards but I'm skeptical that my deck is going to improve to the point that I can compete with these other decks
On June 15 2013 01:38 Yacobs wrote: Bought the game and so far I'm fairly disappointed with it. I picked Order as my starter deck and severely regret it. Every time I go up against a Growth or Energy deck, they just annihilate me. Either their board is filled with units within no time or they're nuking all my stuff into submission. If I don't get the perfect starting hand then my board is effectively empty for turns upon turns and I'm holding 4 or 5 enchantment cards which do nothing because there's nothing to cast them on. Meanwhile Growth and Energy can use their cards immediately.
Now I have to grind up 6500 gold just to pick a different starter deck and then grind more gold before I can buy any new cards. I suppose I could spend my gold on more Order cards but I'm skeptical that my deck is going to improve to the point that I can compete with these other decks
You're a bit quick to blame your deck don't you think?
Order is the best deck overall though. Growth sucks at closing and has to spend all of its cards keeping the opponent from winning late game, Energy can't exactly protect its 3rd idol for a long time, and order can do both.
On June 15 2013 03:10 mTwRINE wrote: Startingdeck sucks for every deck if the opponent is a few value cards ahead. Gameplaywise its a little bit Order>Growth>Energy>Order.
Wow, that's pretty bad design if true.
The main problem I have with Order is breaking through the enemy's heroes/structures. Like, I'll be against an Energy deck and they'll fill the board with endless goo cannons and all that crap and it feels nearly impossible to even get an attack off let alone kill three structures/units in a row and doing some damage to their totems.
On June 15 2013 03:10 mTwRINE wrote: Startingdeck sucks for every deck if the opponent is a few value cards ahead. Gameplaywise its a little bit Order>Growth>Energy>Order.
Wow, that's pretty bad design if true.
The main problem I have with Order is breaking through the enemy's heroes/structures. Like, I'll be against an Energy deck and they'll fill the board with endless goo cannons and all that crap and it feels nearly impossible to even get an attack off let alone kill three structures/units in a row and doing some damage to their totems.
It's not really bad design as you will get paired against people with equally shitty decks and the precons do a good job of showing the directions your deck can take.
Against lobbers position your units out of their range and move them in when they are about to attack. Use Pother/Flip to screw with the Energy's positioning and focus on keeping the opponents board empty.
ok, after less than 12 hours of studying all the review sources on the internet about this game, i just paid 21$ for it :-/. This could either be good or its gona be the worst decision i have made in 2013. Blew my HoTS saving for this
anyway, i heard they are introducing decay or w/e.... that should helps out the balance right?
edit: oh wow, how big is the game file? mine has been downloading for almost an hour and its at 35% >.>
On June 15 2013 04:23 NB wrote: ok, after less than 12 hours of studying all the review sources on the internet about this game, i just paid 21$ for it :-/. This could either be good or its gona be the worst decision i have made in 2013. Blew my HoTS saving for this
anyway, i heard they are introducing decay or w/e.... that should helps out the balance right?
edit: oh wow, how big is the game file? mine has been downloading for almost an hour and its at 35% >.>
if anything I'd wager decay is going to upset the balance. That said from my experience as Energy is that I have a good shot of beating any deck. They have been playtesting the game alot in alpha and it shows imo.
Regarding the game file, its actually really tiny and I was done in no time. Sounds like something is wrong with your download.
mannn, i picked order out of randomness... now i hate it so much. Growth and Energy looks so much fun, Order feels just like elemental heroes in yugioh :-/. Any tips on playing order?
On June 15 2013 16:14 NB wrote: mannn, i picked order out of randomness... now i hate it so much. Growth and Energy looks so much fun, Order feels just like elemental heroes in yugioh :-/. Any tips on playing order?
Theres links discussing that on this very fucking page.
On June 15 2013 16:14 NB wrote: mannn, i picked order out of randomness... now i hate it so much. Growth and Energy looks so much fun, Order feels just like elemental heroes in yugioh :-/. Any tips on playing order?
get to like 8 order and use cards like pother, kabonk, and transposition to keep drawing cards.
On June 15 2013 16:14 NB wrote: mannn, i picked order out of randomness... now i hate it so much. Growth and Energy looks so much fun, Order feels just like elemental heroes in yugioh :-/. Any tips on playing order?
Growth is only fun until you start playing against decent players. Energy is only fun if you play against someone who plays poorly early, and order is pretty much fine at all levels. Just keep investing in cards and you'll get what you need.
I am dc out in the middle of a ranked game Almost won too. Cant even load scrolls.com to submit support ticket T_T. What do?
Personally right now im copying the deck of the Order Hard AI where he is just mass units and summon them out really fast with moving stone and obelisk backing you up. I still havent found a lot of synergy in order spell cards yet. I dont think the order cards that cost more than 4 are that much useful to have more than 1 or even at all in your deck.
On June 15 2013 16:14 NB wrote: mannn, i picked order out of randomness... now i hate it so much. Growth and Energy looks so much fun, Order feels just like elemental heroes in yugioh :-/. Any tips on playing order?
Growth is only fun until you start playing against decent players. Energy is only fun if you play against someone who plays poorly early, and order is pretty much fine at all levels. Just keep investing in cards and you'll get what you need.
I disagree about your view on Growth. They have the best closing cards in the game in Crimson Bull, Rallying and God's Hand. The majority of the players I encounter are Growth and it's for a good reason.
Order feels very balanced in their match ups but can quickly fall apart when you control their skirmisher board presence.
To the guy above me:
I agree with you there. I only run 1 Honorable General because by the time you need and can utilize him you will have drawn him. The Knight's Scholar is my favourite card in the game and I love his utility. Apart from Heritage, Order really struggles with maintaining their card pool so I often play him away from the action in a corner which will force the opponent to dedicate resources to remove it from play. I'll often be pressuring the other rows hard enough for it to be a big investment to remove so I can enjoy the additional card draws.
The Royal Vanguard is almost always mana/draw bait but I still run him because of the synergy with the General/Speed.
I don't think you should leave these cards out of your deck entirely because you will need them to win the late game.
Imperial resources is the only card I opt to not run. I find that the only time its actually useful is when you're in a commanding presence anyways so I would prefer to run other useful cards.
On June 15 2013 16:14 NB wrote: mannn, i picked order out of randomness... now i hate it so much. Growth and Energy looks so much fun, Order feels just like elemental heroes in yugioh :-/. Any tips on playing order?
Growth is only fun until you start playing against decent players. Energy is only fun if you play against someone who plays poorly early, and order is pretty much fine at all levels. Just keep investing in cards and you'll get what you need.
I disagree about your view on Growth. They have the best closing cards in the game in Crimson Bull, Rallying and God's Hand. The majority of the players I encounter are Growth and it's for a good reason.
Order feels very balanced in their match ups but can quickly fall apart when you control their skirmisher board presence.
idk much but order = terran, growth = zerg and energy = protoss in my point of view. Overall growth could pretty much expand their power exponentially will all the high level spells like rally, bull with built in wolf rally. Meanwhile the other 2 resources slowly linear grow up. I am not commenting on the balance, its just that growth looks really fun and satisfying to play in my taste.
On June 15 2013 16:14 NB wrote: mannn, i picked order out of randomness... now i hate it so much. Growth and Energy looks so much fun, Order feels just like elemental heroes in yugioh :-/. Any tips on playing order?
Growth is only fun until you start playing against decent players. Energy is only fun if you play against someone who plays poorly early, and order is pretty much fine at all levels. Just keep investing in cards and you'll get what you need.
I disagree about your view on Growth. They have the best closing cards in the game in Crimson Bull, Rallying and God's Hand. The majority of the players I encounter are Growth and it's for a good reason.
Order feels very balanced in their match ups but can quickly fall apart when you control their skirmisher board presence.
idk much but order = terran, growth = zerg and energy = protoss in my point of view. Overall growth could pretty much expand their power exponentially will all the high level spells like rally, bull with built in wolf rally. Meanwhile the other 2 resources slowly linear grow up. I am not commenting on the balance, its just that growth looks really fun and satisfying to play in my taste.
You should win roughly 20% of your growth games vs competent order/energy players provided they don't get screwed from cards. growth needs to splash to win games when decks are played properly. Growth is everywhere and the growth vs growth matchup is so luck based right now its hardly worth playing. the same will almost always come down to whoever draws their god hand first.
Growth vs Growth seems very terrible to play. The one thing I can bank on when facing mono Growth decks is that my units will die in the position I play them.
Order vs Order can snowball but you can at least even up the table with good flip/pother's and positioning.
On June 15 2013 16:14 NB wrote: mannn, i picked order out of randomness... now i hate it so much. Growth and Energy looks so much fun, Order feels just like elemental heroes in yugioh :-/. Any tips on playing order?
Growth is only fun until you start playing against decent players. Energy is only fun if you play against someone who plays poorly early, and order is pretty much fine at all levels. Just keep investing in cards and you'll get what you need.
I disagree about your view on Growth. They have the best closing cards in the game in Crimson Bull, Rallying and God's Hand. The majority of the players I encounter are Growth and it's for a good reason.
Order feels very balanced in their match ups but can quickly fall apart when you control their skirmisher board presence.
idk much but order = terran, growth = zerg and energy = protoss in my point of view. Overall growth could pretty much expand their power exponentially will all the high level spells like rally, bull with built in wolf rally. Meanwhile the other 2 resources slowly linear grow up. I am not commenting on the balance, its just that growth looks really fun and satisfying to play in my taste.
Energy literally has siege tanks. Order is definitely Protoss as they just want their unit ball to get going.
lol, so im building a new order deck that cost a shit ton of resources. It has 3 imperial resources :D... if you survive until you pop like 2 of them, you are pretty dope.
Still have no mangole and transport(swap 2 ally units, +1 draw) cards. Quite hard to play T_T
On June 17 2013 08:04 NB wrote: lol, so im building a new order deck that cost a shit ton of resources. It has 3 imperial resources :D... if you survive until you pop like 2 of them, you are pretty dope.
Still have no mangole and transport(swap 2 ally units, +1 draw) cards. Quite hard to play T_T
Get a couple pothers and a couple kabonks don't worry about mangonels, and make sure you have spearman.
On June 17 2013 08:04 NB wrote: lol, so im building a new order deck that cost a shit ton of resources. It has 3 imperial resources :D... if you survive until you pop like 2 of them, you are pretty dope.
Still have no mangole and transport(swap 2 ally units, +1 draw) cards. Quite hard to play T_T
Get a couple pothers and a couple kabonks don't worry about mangonels, and make sure you have spearman.
which spearman though? personally i hate the 1-2-4 guy bc he cost 4 orders and has no offensive capability. I rather use rocks and obelisk than having him(still, i keep like 1 copy in the deck just in case vs rush strat)
On June 17 2013 08:04 NB wrote: lol, so im building a new order deck that cost a shit ton of resources. It has 3 imperial resources :D... if you survive until you pop like 2 of them, you are pretty dope.
Still have no mangole and transport(swap 2 ally units, +1 draw) cards. Quite hard to play T_T
Get a couple pothers and a couple kabonks don't worry about mangonels, and make sure you have spearman.
which spearman though? personally i hate the 1-2-4 guy bc he cost 4 orders and has no offensive capability. I rather use rocks and obelisk than having him(still, i keep like 1 copy in the deck just in case vs rush strat)
3 of royal and 2 of ducal. There isn't a reason to hate the 4 order guy because he can often absorb 3 shots from growth decks whcih means he deals like 7 damage. which is really strong. and they both shut down growth hard. when people put down rocks or obelisk i feel happy as a growth deck because that means i don't see spearman. my 3/2 suggestion is overkill but 2/2 is pretty good.
but yeah, my new deck often result something like this: http://imgur.com/a1jm62F.jpg it was a hard fought battle, start out hand has 3 7-cost-cards(yes, 3 imperial resources in a 6 cards hand, who would hv guessed?) and i proceed to lose out 2 idols pretty early. Keep defending defending until imperial resources started to kick in, flip the game back in my favor and win. Really need more drawing cards
Hey guys, I'm playing Scrolls too =D. Join channel teamliquid in Scrolls when you're online.
NB I'm using an Order deck with Mangonels plus Summons(card that looks for structure in deck) and it's great. Speed + Focus + Honorable General all synergize really well with it. The only downside is that waking stones don't work so well in the deck because of Summons.
Rally = 2x Blessing of Speed, for your entire board. Bull's Charge = 2/3rds Focus for your entire board. Kinfolk Vetran = 3, 4 with Haste, loads of other stuff too.
On June 19 2013 08:39 Obsidian wrote: I gota say... Nature is broken strong!
So many nice units and spells within Nature.
Rally = 2x Blessing of Speed, for your entire board. Bull's Charge = 2/3rds Focus for your entire board. Kinfolk Vetran = 3, 4 with Haste, loads of other stuff too.
Seriously, Nature man!
Top of the ladder still has both Growth and Order, around the same number so I don't think it can be called broken. I play both mono growth and mono order decks on ladder. Waking Stones, Spearmen are very good vs growth. Order is very good at snowballing late game with Imperial Resources and all their draw mechanics.
My rating right now is 1700s and i just beat a mangole 1800 rating guy, made into top 500 (:O). I got screw over by energy quite badly if i dont get a good hand but generally i do really well against growth and order. It is quite hard to strife as a creature order deck when energy user just spam out AoE spell on your head. I could hard counter that with some specific cards but you cant choose specialized deck for a general random game.
Vs growth: Generally you want to get a clear board control. The earlier you clear out their creatures the better. Piority wolf>low cd>anything else. Avoid losing unit/ taking damage by counting+cutting distant 2-3 turns ahead. Let your idols tank if needed. If you are behind, just turtle with walking stone since growth sucks vs stone :D.
Vs energy: Win FAST. Get as much units out as possible and spread them out. If its a warlock deck, try to target the elder before they get the second one out. Otherwise, save up pushback and flip to win them over the positional battle. Potion of resistance is a bitch and sometime you just gota base race them.
Vs order: Stock up resources and save up cards. The game is won by you overwhelming him with units, losing 1 or 2 idols and comeback are really common. Try to pop Imperial Resources asap while his units are on cooldown. Save pushback and flip only until the last turn where their units is about to attack you.
I also encounter a very bizarre deck where they went tri resources and mass destruction spells with a bunch of 1HP totems tanking up. I think that deck could have a sick potential if you let it roll late game, sadly i only encounter it onced and have yet find the counter. People are talking about it quite a bit though.
On June 19 2013 19:56 whoso wrote: are there words about real money sanctioned tournaments in the future for this game?
the replay system is coming this weekend and i imagine the spectator mode-custom game would be implemented soonly after. Tournament has already happening on reddit as the 2nd one has already full of sign up and about to start. Im not sure about real money but if the game gets big, it will happen organically.
------ edit: btw, there is currently a big discussion about potion of resistance balance. I have played with some order players who just get 1 point in energy just for that potion alone.
On June 19 2013 21:50 Vaelone wrote: So when will I start losing rating in ranked? I always get 0 rating lost when I lose a match and I got 1080 rating so far.
you start losing points when your winrate becomes stable. Most of the matches that you dont lose points are counted as calibrating placement matches.
On June 20 2013 02:51 whoso wrote: so i guess buying the 10 cards packs and then resell the cards one by one is profitable provided one isnt bored by market flipping hm?
no one bother buying commons cards though. And the more you go up, the more you want to target buying specific cards for your deck. A lot of people are stocking up gold to save for decay but personally i find it gona be hard for me to complete my deck when more cards come out so im just buying in now as much as possible. If you prefer trading more than winning with a stronger deck though, go for it.
I just beat Klappman, rank 20-ish world :D. Looking good
How does the game handle counters etc? I saw TBs video, but from what I could see, there's no sideboard and you don't even get to see what kind of deck your opponent is using... doesn't that mean high level will just be decks countering one another all the time?
On June 20 2013 03:39 Tobberoth wrote: How does the game handle counters etc? I saw TBs video, but from what I could see, there's no sideboard and you don't even get to see what kind of deck your opponent is using... doesn't that mean high level will just be decks countering one another all the time?
It does seem that way for now, there isn't a sideboard.
I'm sure for actual tourney mode when they get it running that they'll work on this.
On June 20 2013 03:39 Tobberoth wrote: How does the game handle counters etc? I saw TBs video, but from what I could see, there's no sideboard and you don't even get to see what kind of deck your opponent is using... doesn't that mean high level will just be decks countering one another all the time?
define counters, im not quite clear on that term.
And if you mean building decks that specifically target another deck to hard counter it, it doesnt really work on ladder as you have to face 3 match up. A similar comparison would be you use a PvZ forge expand build in a PvP match up of starcraft, you just cant do that and expect a win. People also improve their deck everyday/hours until the perfection and once you reach perfection, it still depends on execution and a bit of drawing luck, and at that point you gona get matched with others perfect deck users anyway. Furthermore people will start testing out on new deck, new combination etc.
On June 20 2013 03:39 Tobberoth wrote: How does the game handle counters etc? I saw TBs video, but from what I could see, there's no sideboard and you don't even get to see what kind of deck your opponent is using... doesn't that mean high level will just be decks countering one another all the time?
You can win in "counter" matchups as long as your deck isn't a mega gimmick deck (like rat/shrine decks). playskill matters for a lot.
also NB I bet you are happy you listened to me about spearman being god mode vs growth ^_^. xD i can't get ranked as high as you with either my pure growth or my growth energy deck.
I don't think this kind of game needs a sideboard, as you can sack useless cards/resources unlike magic where if you draw a card then it's dead if you don't have a use for it.
I initially started with the Order deck. After handling most of the early trials, I bought the Energy Pre-made, so I could build an energy deck.
I feel the problem though, is lack of some of the vital cards I see others using. Having access to only one Blessing of Speed is problematic for an order deck. Sure they can build up to critical mass, and then start steamrolling, but it takes more than a bit of luck to get to that point. Not having access to Shrines and such probably doesn't help.
Energy can likewise set up some pretty disturbing combos between Concentrated Fire and Bombard. They have some potent stuff, and quite a bit of spot problem removal via their direct damage abilities, but again... I think a lack of cards is part of the problem.
Nature/Growth decks though... I can't seem to get a handle on them, I'm probably about 50% win rate vs them regardless, and that may be a bit high. Energy or Order, I still have problems dealing with them. Their units seem to be under priced I think. Their cheap 1/1 mobs all have something cool, either providing free, temporary resource, or allowing you to draw a card when dropped. They have good card drawing abilities, and their buffs are off the charts, at least mid-late game. Seeing as half of them affect your entire board and are quite potent.
I'm probably going to save up and get the Growth premade next, then we'll see what we can build. Maybe it's just me, but cross-resource decks seem to be much harder to get to work right. I'll probably take a closer look later on once I have a more comprehensive library.
On June 20 2013 07:42 PrinceXizor wrote: also NB I bet you are happy you listened to me about spearman being god mode vs growth ^_^. xD i can't get ranked as high as you with either my pure growth or my growth energy deck.
actually i was just putting as much creatures as i have into the current order deck. Number is the strength of order. It feels like building siege tank in TvZ, you get stronger the more tanks you have but once you lose the ball, the game completely turns around.
I have seen several good growth deck now and they are scary. With clever positioning, they could always build up the army they needed without much worrying about Idols race(order is bad at that). A good growth player could even get 1-2 points in order and steal some great buff over.
I really wish i get more lucky with the 10 scroll roll from the shop ... getting nothing good lately and i dont wana buy cards at trading price.
On June 20 2013 07:42 PrinceXizor wrote: also NB I bet you are happy you listened to me about spearman being god mode vs growth ^_^. xD i can't get ranked as high as you with either my pure growth or my growth energy deck.
actually i was just putting as much creatures as i have into the current order deck. Number is the strength of order. It feels like building siege tank in TvZ, you get stronger the more tanks you have but once you lose the ball, the game completely turns around.
I have seen several good growth deck now and they are scary. With clever positioning, they could always build up the army they needed without much worrying about Idols race(order is bad at that). A good growth player could even get 1-2 points in order and steal some great buff over.
I really wish i get more lucky with the 10 scroll roll from the shop ... getting nothing good lately and i dont wana buy cards at trading price.
If i get any speeds i'll let you know. saving for decay atm though, growth isn't doing it for me. That being said the new dustrunner energy card is ridiculously strong.
Is there a list of cards somewhere? I never even thought to look... I'd love some 10x Scrolls, of a specific faction, getting 10 randoms across all 3 isn't helpful sometimes.
On June 20 2013 09:27 Obsidian wrote: Is there a list of cards somewhere? I never even thought to look... I'd love some 10x Scrolls, of a specific faction, getting 10 randoms across all 3 isn't helpful sometimes.
On June 20 2013 10:44 LiamTheZerg wrote: ! I suck so hard. It's fun, but disheartening to go into quick match against players with ridiculous decks. Also, I hate order with a passion.
Dont just QQ like that :-/... post some screenshots so we could give you some advice :D. There are already quite a bit of guides and good deck build out there, just look it up. Sometimes you just can't win because you reach a level where it requires a more powerful deck to move up.
To be fair losing to order feels like bullshit. i know you have to have made a mistake along the line to lose badly to order but it feels like they are lucky every time.
Not really. Most of the top ranked players are Growth players and a lot of people are complaining how Quake is such a reset button and need to be removed out of the game. But again, its easy to hate on the resource you dont play.
On June 20 2013 12:39 NB wrote: Not really. Most of the top ranked players are Growth players and a lot of people are complaining how Quake is such a reset button and need to be removed out of the game. But again, its easy to hate on the resource you dont play.
spoken like an order player . Quake hurts growth too. if peopel ar ecomplaining that a spell that damages your own units resets stuff too much, then man the apeshit stuff that they say about thunder surge or any order spell ever must be crazy. People who play growth at top rank, played growth form the start before people learned to play vs it. its the same with all games, the rush strategies suck ass as people learn to deal with it. pure growth is a cheese deck
On June 20 2013 07:49 Incognitodies wrote: I don't think this kind of game needs a sideboard, as you can sack useless cards/resources unlike magic where if you draw a card then it's dead if you don't have a use for it.
That's not really a good tactic when building a deck though, you basically want a deck full of cards you want to use, then only sack the cards you got at the wrong time, such as getting really expensive cards early or cheap cards late. The point of the sideboard isn't to remove useless cards, it's to tweak your basic deck to handle several situations.
The situation might not be so bad in Scrolls yet, but generally TCG leads to a few "optimal" decks which counter one another, and without a sideboard you will have to decide if it should completely destroy opposing decks, or be weaker but stand a chance against counters. Will be interesting to see how it will turn out in scrolls as more people get "perfect" decks.
On June 20 2013 12:39 NB wrote: Not really. Most of the top ranked players are Growth players and a lot of people are complaining how Quake is such a reset button and need to be removed out of the game. But again, its easy to hate on the resource you dont play.
spoken like an order player . Quake hurts growth too. if peopel ar ecomplaining that a spell that damages your own units resets stuff too much, then man the apeshit stuff that they say about thunder surge or any order spell ever must be crazy. People who play growth at top rank, played growth form the start before people learned to play vs it. its the same with all games, the rush strategies suck ass as people learn to deal with it. pure growth is a cheese deck
I play Order and was against a Growth player yesterday, he was quite ahead of me early on and had overall stronger units on field than I did. Then he used Quake for seemingly no reason and wiped out the entire field and I managed turn over the game after that.
I did lose a game I thought I had won to Thunder Surge wiping out half my units and the other half ending up with half hp, learned my lesson and try to split my units a bit more now.
What bothers me about Growth is all that fucking Haste combined with the +2 attack for all units card.
What bothers me about Growth is all that fucking Haste combined with the +2 attack for all units card.
yeah, but it costs 8 (if you mean god hand). that's practically our turn for most of the game if not all. Order can do similar things for 5. :/ Though to be honest the best deck i've seen is Order with Crimson bull (+2 attack all units), and fertile soil. its just impossible to deal with. literally only put 4 into growth just to cast fertile soil and play like standard order.
and yeah, any decent growth deck can get an early lead, but then due to a massive lack in strong creatures, ends up just losing late most games that are played correctly. Growth has to splash for those power creatures.
On June 20 2013 12:39 NB wrote: Not really. Most of the top ranked players are Growth players and a lot of people are complaining how Quake is such a reset button and need to be removed out of the game. But again, its easy to hate on the resource you dont play.
spoken like an order player . Quake hurts growth too. if peopel ar ecomplaining that a spell that damages your own units resets stuff too much, then man the apeshit stuff that they say about thunder surge or any order spell ever must be crazy. People who play growth at top rank, played growth form the start before people learned to play vs it. its the same with all games, the rush strategies suck ass as people learn to deal with it. pure growth is a cheese deck
I play Order and was against a Growth player yesterday, he was quite ahead of me early on and had overall stronger units on field than I did. Then he used Quake for seemingly no reason and wiped out the entire field and I managed turn over the game after that.
I did lose a game I thought I had won to Thunder Surge wiping out half my units and the other half ending up with half hp, learned my lesson and try to split my units a bit more now.
What bothers me about Growth is all that fucking Haste combined with the +2 attack for all units card.
The problem is that as a mono order player, you can NOT split your units out. The strength of order is in their units standing close and support each other, Splitting up not only weaken your army but also weaken your board control which is the key for mono order deck to win. If you ever have to base race any order or growth players, you would have notice how much fire power they have compare to you.
There is also a crucial part about Order: You cant really recycle your deck until late game. The nature of mono order requires you to constantly having units on the board to secure map control, which often lock you around 5 mana and constantly sacking for cards instead of energy. This means that each units are much more precious in order due to the lack of burst power. I will compare to it like a Terran building up sieg tanks, losing 1 tank early could simply lose you the entire game.
I dont know, I might need to start building hybrid deck soon to get the benefit of multi resources growth. In theory hybrid deck is much much stronger but you need to get just the right deck and just the right draws.
The problem I see with multicolored decks is that it gets really slow if you want to have high cost cards of both colors in your deck. Unlike in Magic, there is no colorless mana so in order to cast a 7 cost card of one color one turn, and a 7 cost card of another color the next turn, you need 14 resources out. It would have to be a very defensive deck that takes a long time to get started.
Maybe just having one main color and splicing in a couple of cost 1-3 cards of another color is a better idea.
On June 20 2013 18:48 DrainX wrote: The problem I see with multicolored decks is that it gets really slow if you want to have high cost cards of both colors in your deck. Unlike in Magic, there is no colorless mana so in order to cast a 7 cost card of one color one turn, and a 7 cost card of another color the next turn, you need 14 resources out. It would have to be a very defensive deck that takes a long time to get started.
Maybe just having one main color and splicing in a couple of cost 1-3 cards of another color is a better idea.
The thing is that you could abuse the shit out of all the +1 mana graveyard(0-0-1) to keep doubling your resources each turn. Around turn 5 turn 6 you already sitting on 5-6 mana without losing a lot of cards and have a bunch of 1 HP units on the field to take hit. After that you just burn through opponent field with destruction spells from all 3 resources, buy more time for ultimate scrolls(most often seen is iron golem) or a stock up of DoT structures. Overall that deck works based on you hoping your enemy dont have good 1-2 creatures on the first few rounds and quake mid-late game (LOL). At least thats the one i played against, i still have yet seen all the transition in that deck yet.
Im starting to sell scrolls using trading in game channel... jezuz its easy money :D
Quake isn't even that strong its probably the worst clear spell in the game right above it is the cheaper growth version of it. but yeah trading scrolls = easy gold. if you are a gambling man you can trade scrolls til you get 1000 then buy a pack then sell them. but your best bet is to sell til you get 5000 then buy 10 packs and sell for 5k more..
On June 20 2013 20:11 PrinceXizor wrote: Quake isn't even that strong its probably the worst clear spell in the game right above it is the cheaper growth version of it. but yeah trading scrolls = easy gold. if you are a gambling man you can trade scrolls til you get 1000 then buy a pack then sell them. but your best bet is to sell til you get 5000 then buy 10 packs and sell for 5k more..
im not a gamble man but im doing exactly just that. I want to get as much scrolls in as possible before decay come out which increase the scrolls pool, decrease the chance of me getting what i needed. They are also going to introduce a scrolls sink so im expecting the trading price would go up even more.
On June 20 2013 20:11 PrinceXizor wrote: Quake isn't even that strong its probably the worst clear spell in the game right above it is the cheaper growth version of it. but yeah trading scrolls = easy gold. if you are a gambling man you can trade scrolls til you get 1000 then buy a pack then sell them. but your best bet is to sell til you get 5000 then buy 10 packs and sell for 5k more..
Right now Quake is one of the most powerful cards in the game and easily the best board wipe.
On June 20 2013 22:57 KillerSOS wrote: I cant seem to beat Energy with my Order deck anymore... too much board clear makes it impossible to get generals rolling before everything just dies.
I win about 70% of my order vs. energy by spamming low cost units in the below formation and using ponder to shove hellspitters with potion of resistance away, flip to drag gravelock elders/cannon automatons into a kill ready lane and pushback when needed.
Inferno blast becomes a 3 cost spell that deals 2 damage total and thunder surge/blind rage are worthless.
You will eventually have to collapse once you knock 1 or 2 idols but at that point make sure you only have 2, maybe 3 high hp units connected adjacently. Thunder Surge isn't that bad.
On June 21 2013 00:27 Yacobs wrote: What kind of cards are you guys selling? Any given card or do people only pay up for uncommons/rares/particular commons?
i mostly just resell commons into the shop, dont bother wasting time. Sell spare uncommons and rares
I really fucked up my deck early, used all trial money on random scrolls and didn't really know which ones where good sold most back to vendor because I didn't know how to trade/sell to other people... Got broke I've barely grinded my way up to half a half decent growth deck I have all my creatures I need but no real good spells to finish shit off except rallying. Long story short I for the fucking life of me cannot beat any Order deck I even struggle against shitty easy ai bots that play order. Against Growth and energy I can beat people and hard ai etc. but I pretty much auto lose any time I go up against Order Any one have any general advice? Is there a way to full reset? Like trade in all your cards and just start with a started deck and original money?
TLDR: Fucked up when I started hard, Can't even beat easy ai Order but can beat Growth and Energy players Help and or is their a way to full reset?
On June 20 2013 20:11 PrinceXizor wrote: Quake isn't even that strong its probably the worst clear spell in the game right above it is the cheaper growth version of it. but yeah trading scrolls = easy gold. if you are a gambling man you can trade scrolls til you get 1000 then buy a pack then sell them. but your best bet is to sell til you get 5000 then buy 10 packs and sell for 5k more..
Right now Quake is one of the most powerful cards in the game and easily the best board wipe.
and people who think that are quite clearly wrong.
On June 20 2013 20:11 PrinceXizor wrote: Quake isn't even that strong its probably the worst clear spell in the game right above it is the cheaper growth version of it. but yeah trading scrolls = easy gold. if you are a gambling man you can trade scrolls til you get 1000 then buy a pack then sell them. but your best bet is to sell til you get 5000 then buy 10 packs and sell for 5k more..
Right now Quake is one of the most powerful cards in the game and easily the best board wipe.
and people who think that are quite clearly wrong.
It's played by all growth decks in the upper brackets and is an integral part of their strategy. The new Blinky video actually showcases this quite well:
On June 20 2013 20:11 PrinceXizor wrote: Quake isn't even that strong its probably the worst clear spell in the game right above it is the cheaper growth version of it. but yeah trading scrolls = easy gold. if you are a gambling man you can trade scrolls til you get 1000 then buy a pack then sell them. but your best bet is to sell til you get 5000 then buy 10 packs and sell for 5k more..
Right now Quake is one of the most powerful cards in the game and easily the best board wipe.
and people who think that are quite clearly wrong.
Just because a card is mandatory for a deck to stand a chance to win doesn't mean it's superior to other cards like it. integral cards are NOT inherently overpowered. without quake, growth cannot win a game late, because it has no real way to deal with an established gameboard and still deal damage.
On June 22 2013 07:23 PrinceXizor wrote: Just because a card is mandatory for a deck to stand a chance to win doesn't mean it's superior to other cards like it. integral cards are NOT inherently overpowered. without quake, growth cannot win a game late, because it has no real way to deal with an established gameboard and still deal damage.
But the other cards don't allow you to do what Quake allows you to do. Its the most reliable and damaging board wipe and is best at what it does. With the current meta being to stall while drawing as much of your deck as possible that makes it not only the best card in its category, but also one of the best cards in the game.
got matched with a 1900s rating guy and it was not pretty.
hybrid order growth with mass drawing cards always keep him with 7 cards and 16 mana or so.... I had a chance to win but i didnt see it until i press the end turn button. He ended up rolling me over despite me leading in board control all game. #quake #ezmode
On June 22 2013 10:12 BliptiX wrote: You lost with the board looking like that?
One Decimate from victory, damn. Did he heal it?
i dont have decimate (and by that i mean I WISH I HAD IT but i have 0 in my inventory)
He just mass summoning tank units and finish everything in 1 turn with rally(yes, all 3 totems from full HP in 1 turn)
edit: you know what? i only have 1 speed and 0 decimation, ima retire my order deck for a while.
Yeah getting to 1900ish rating without speed or decimation is just showing how strong order is when played well. but your deck IS inferior to pretty much everything you are going to run into at that level, you got there by being good at playing your deck.
On June 22 2013 10:12 BliptiX wrote: You lost with the board looking like that?
One Decimate from victory, damn. Did he heal it?
i dont have decimate (and by that i mean I WISH I HAD IT but i have 0 in my inventory)
He just mass summoning tank units and finish everything in 1 turn with rally(yes, all 3 totems from full HP in 1 turn)
edit: you know what? i only have 1 speed and 0 decimation, ima retire my order deck for a while.
Yeah getting to 1900ish rating without speed or decimation is just showing how strong order is when played well. but your deck IS inferior to pretty much everything you are going to run into at that level, you got there by being good at playing your deck.
lol you are just taking chance to whine about balance. Im 1600+, the match making matched me with 1900+ so i took my chance :-/
On June 22 2013 10:12 BliptiX wrote: You lost with the board looking like that?
One Decimate from victory, damn. Did he heal it?
i dont have decimate (and by that i mean I WISH I HAD IT but i have 0 in my inventory)
He just mass summoning tank units and finish everything in 1 turn with rally(yes, all 3 totems from full HP in 1 turn)
edit: you know what? i only have 1 speed and 0 decimation, ima retire my order deck for a while.
Yeah getting to 1900ish rating without speed or decimation is just showing how strong order is when played well. but your deck IS inferior to pretty much everything you are going to run into at that level, you got there by being good at playing your deck.
lol you are just taking chance to whine about balance. Im 1600+, the match making matched me with 1900+ so i took my chance :-/
wat? order is a deck that wins more the better the player, while a mediocre player playing growth can win a lot until people start playing really well, and energy is pretty rough to play but powerful at all levels. I thought you were saying you made 1900. xD. i mean i've played vs 2000 ranked players too xD i thought you were saying you hit 1900.
and i meant it all as a complement to your playskill not a balance issue. i don't think the same is poorly balanced at this point at all. but i think people who think growth is the strongest are dumb. before dust runner came out i felt that Order > energy > growth in overall power, but it being the exact opposite at low levels (with growth being the strongest at low levels). but with dust runner shoring up a LOT of the weakness of energy, energy is probably the best at this time.
EDIT: for example i got the game a couple days after release, and hit 2000 ranked once i started playing ranked because i was rolling everyone with growth, and then the more i played the further i dropped in ranked once people figured out how to beat growth (now i'm like 1450)
wat? order is a deck that wins more the better the player, while a mediocre player playing growth can win a lot until people start playing really well, and energy is pretty rough to play but powerful at all levels.
Noaidi's have just ruined the game. I initially liked the idea since I was constructing a hybrid Growth/Order deck before it was released and figured it would be a nice addition but it has turned into a far nicer addition for regular Growth/Order decks (only needing 1/2 order).
I just played a game where the opposing player drew 3 within 12 rounds and I drew my first at round 15. That is 3 growth and 3 order over me for free. It's very difficult to come back from that.
These players don't run memorials so there is supposed to be some sort of actual sacrifice to gain that order but now its just ridiculous.
The icing in that game was the 4 back to back God Hand draws to close it. He wasn't even running a ridiculous cycling deck, fuck.
On June 22 2013 15:42 BliptiX wrote: Noaidi's have just ruined the game. I initially liked the idea since I was constructing a hybrid Growth/Order deck before it was released and figured it would be a nice addition but it has turned into a far nicer addition for regular Growth/Order decks (only needing 1/2 order).
I just played a game where the opposing player drew 3 within 12 rounds and I drew my first at round 15. That is 3 growth and 3 order over me for free. It's very difficult to come back from that.
These players don't run memorials so there is supposed to be some sort of actual sacrifice to gain that order but now its just ridiculous.
The icing in that game was the 4 back to back God Hand draws to close it. He wasn't even running a ridiculous cycling deck, fuck.
you don't know the pain until you deal with dust runners O_O
Man, this game is absolutely amazing. I have not played an online game since broodwar that I've had this much fun playing. I would strongly recommend this game to anyone!
On June 22 2013 15:50 Ryan307 wrote: Man, this game is absolutely amazing. I have not played an online game since broodwar that I've had this much fun playing. I would strongly recommend this game to anyone!
The current client UI definitely somewhat reminds me of Broodwar
On June 22 2013 15:46 PrinceXizor wrote: you don't know the pain until you deal with dust runners O_O
Dust Runner's don't have shit on Noaidi's. After playing back to back growth/order mirrors I've decided to take a break until that card is fixed. Card games are always luck dependent but just being able to play for 3 fucking growth a 3/2/2 creature that permanently increases your resource pool by 2 is retarded.
On June 22 2013 10:12 BliptiX wrote: You lost with the board looking like that?
One Decimate from victory, damn. Did he heal it?
i dont have decimate (and by that i mean I WISH I HAD IT but i have 0 in my inventory)
He just mass summoning tank units and finish everything in 1 turn with rally(yes, all 3 totems from full HP in 1 turn)
edit: you know what? i only have 1 speed and 0 decimation, ima retire my order deck for a while.
Yeah getting to 1900ish rating without speed or decimation is just showing how strong order is when played well. but your deck IS inferior to pretty much everything you are going to run into at that level, you got there by being good at playing your deck.
lol you are just taking chance to whine about balance. Im 1600+, the match making matched me with 1900+ so i took my chance :-/
wat? order is a deck that wins more the better the player, while a mediocre player playing growth can win a lot until people start playing really well, and energy is pretty rough to play but powerful at all levels. I thought you were saying you made 1900. xD. i mean i've played vs 2000 ranked players too xD i thought you were saying you hit 1900.
and i meant it all as a complement to your playskill not a balance issue. i don't think the same is poorly balanced at this point at all. but i think people who think growth is the strongest are dumb. before dust runner came out i felt that Order > energy > growth in overall power, but it being the exact opposite at low levels (with growth being the strongest at low levels). but with dust runner shoring up a LOT of the weakness of energy, energy is probably the best at this time.
EDIT: for example i got the game a couple days after release, and hit 2000 ranked once i started playing ranked because i was rolling everyone with growth, and then the more i played the further i dropped in ranked once people figured out how to beat growth (now i'm like 1450)
What are you talking about? More than half of the players play Growth in the top 50. I think there are like 2 or 3 that play Energy.
So do you guys see this game getting pretty competitive in the future i.e stream numbers/tournys? or is it going to be one of those fun games that doesn't really break the twitch/esports barrier.
On June 23 2013 05:58 Esoterikk wrote: So do you guys see this game getting pretty competitive in the future i.e stream numbers/tournys? or is it going to be one of those fun games that doesn't really break the twitch/esports barrier.
It's already really fun to watch. I think it has potential once they add more scrolls and features to it and work on the balance. They might need to fix some of the RNGness of the game for it to be viable in big tournaments.
stream number is already phenomenal for a game in beta with little to no features ready. letahalfrag, TB, JP are supporting the shit out of scrolls. mojang definitely has interest in developing the competitive scene by making replay mode, tournament mode etc. but whether if its success or not is gonna be depends on there business model in the future.
On June 23 2013 06:29 NB wrote: stream number is already phenomenal for a game in beta with little to no features ready. letahalfrag, TB, JP are supporting the shit out of scrolls. mojang definitely has interest in developing the competitive scene by making replay mode, tournament mode etc. but whether if its success or not is gonna be depends on there business model in the future.
Yea, I am going to start streaming it very soon, I honestly am enjoying more than most competitive games out right now and have all but quit playing Dota lately.
On June 23 2013 07:11 ain wrote: Don't really see it as competitive.. It's a pretty casual game at heart. But then again everything gets called competitive nowadays *shrug*.
everything that has a PvP mode is competitive now aday.... Hey i dont see LoL as a competitive game but i know a shit ton would disagree.
any alternatives to the hellspitters as walls for a mono energy deck for all your coils, destroyers and whatnot? im running heavy on ether pumps and libraries, but of course you get less tankiness for more money. i really hate the luck involved of those hits. contraptions are meh
Lots of balance issues that still need to be worked out.
Growth has a pretty clear advantage with their many resource, card drawing, and stacking buff abilities. They have plenty of awesome spells as well as impressive minions, as well as potent and useful structures.
They can build up fast, and stay at top speed, which energy and order have a very hard time accomplishing.
On June 24 2013 01:59 whoso wrote: any alternatives to the hellspitters as walls for a mono energy deck for all your coils, destroyers and whatnot? im running heavy on ether pumps and libraries, but of course you get less tankiness for more money. i really hate the luck involved of those hits. contraptions are meh
You only care about their quality as walls, the random damage might as well not be there. Contraptions are crap indeed.
In my Energy deck I only run 3xClock Library and 2xDestroyer as structures. They are both beefy and I regularly use them to absorb a hit or two. The same goes for Gravelock Elder and Cannon Automaton. All of these can be used as walls or for their effect. The only card that always gets to be a wall in my deck is Machine Priest, but even he does really useful stuff while he is around.
On June 24 2013 01:59 whoso wrote: any alternatives to the hellspitters as walls for a mono energy deck for all your coils, destroyers and whatnot? im running heavy on ether pumps and libraries, but of course you get less tankiness for more money. i really hate the luck involved of those hits. contraptions are meh
your best bet is to ditch the Coils and Ether pumps. Energy just has no draw power, so you can't drag games out. Use Shock, Iron Whip, Burn, Desperation, and Thunder Surge to kill things instead.
How do you guys recommend going about getting cards in the start? I just bought the game, picked growth and played some of the trials.. should I just spam 10 card packages, or is it better to buy single growth cards? I mean, the 10 pack is obviously the most cost efficient, but is it easy enough to get rid of cards you don't want? I mean in the future I will probably want to try hybrid decks and the other resources, but early on that's obviously not an option unless you buy the other starter decks.
If you want specific cards, dont buy from the store. Trade. If you want to build a collection, buy 10-packs. The odds on the random scrolls are 70/20/10% which in the long run are worse odds than the 7/2/1 guaranteed from 10-packs.
On June 24 2013 06:53 tsangan wrote: Oh sweet didn't know there was a scrolls thread on TL, while I'm here I'm looking for quite a few cards to finish my deck
Speed x3 Noaidi x 2 Violent Dispersal x1 Pother x3 Death Cap Berserk x2 Iron Whip x1
I got cards for trade or I can trade them for gold, PM me if you have any of these
At least contribute something if you're just going to post a trade ad.. For example what kind of deck you're building. Sounds like 3 colour Iron Ogre.
Yup it's a tri colour Ogre deck, basically use all the memorials to ramp up on resource count, with cheap burn cards to take care of the field once you hit the later turns you start dropping the Ogre with cooldown cards to let them do work.
There's a few versions I've made not too sure which one is the best still since I don't have all the cards for it yet.
Dual colours just has so much advantage that I don't know if mono will ever be better, i mean even if you don't go GO draw build but just go growth with a splash of order since they have amazing low cost (1-3) spells such as Speed, Focus, Pother, Kabonk etc that will allow you to play the Noaidi (which is also imbalance imo) I dont think a mono growth can beat it.
On June 24 2013 01:59 whoso wrote: any alternatives to the hellspitters as walls for a mono energy deck for all your coils, destroyers and whatnot? im running heavy on ether pumps and libraries, but of course you get less tankiness for more money. i really hate the luck involved of those hits. contraptions are meh
For 3 cost to have 6 health that's pretty amazing there's really nothing that gets you that much tank for so little cost, you should think of this as more of a wall then an offensive piece. If you so happen to hit something then it's definitely good but you shouldn't rely on it.
Pumps and Libraries are both too low on health, especially since Libraries usually sit in the back line since you want to draw and not tank, and the Ether Pump has a long cooldown that tends to get focused fast so you might not even get 1 attack in also both of those are 4 cost. Not to say those aren't good but definitely not to replace Hellspitters
On June 24 2013 05:16 Tobberoth wrote: How do you guys recommend going about getting cards in the start? I just bought the game, picked growth and played some of the trials.. should I just spam 10 card packages, or is it better to buy single growth cards? I mean, the 10 pack is obviously the most cost efficient, but is it easy enough to get rid of cards you don't want? I mean in the future I will probably want to try hybrid decks and the other resources, but early on that's obviously not an option unless you buy the other starter decks.
if you want to start collection get 10 packs and sell the good cards you don't use for more gold. play the easy trials for a bunch of free gold and stuff. commons are trash for the most part for trading though.
On June 24 2013 16:22 rob.au wrote: Thinking of getting this game, are there any other comparable games coming out soon that I might want to wait for instead?
Honestly though, for the price, I think Scrolls is simply just worth the money. Even if Hex and Hearthstone DO destroy scrolls when they are released, you would have played for far more than 15 euros worth, no doubt.
On June 24 2013 16:22 rob.au wrote: Thinking of getting this game, are there any other comparable games coming out soon that I might want to wait for instead?
Honestly though, for the price, I think Scrolls is simply just worth the money. Even if Hex and Hearthstone DO destroy scrolls when they are released, you would have played for far more than 15 euros worth, no doubt.
Do we know if these games are going to be based on microtransactions where you have to buy all your cards with real money?
On June 24 2013 16:22 rob.au wrote: Thinking of getting this game, are there any other comparable games coming out soon that I might want to wait for instead?
Honestly though, for the price, I think Scrolls is simply just worth the money. Even if Hex and Hearthstone DO destroy scrolls when they are released, you would have played for far more than 15 euros worth, no doubt.
Do we know if these games are going to be based on microtransactions where you have to buy all your cards with real money?
I honestly doubt any of those games will use microtransactions to buy the actual cards since that would put them in direct competition with Magic The Gathering Online, but I don't think either of the game has openly stated exactly how gaining new cards will work.
Okay so I bought this today and played around a little and I am a little bit disappointed. I generally enjoy tcg but this is seems way too slow even for a card game. I will give it another shot but it wasnt much fun so far. Even studying seems preferable to me right now and that says alot.
Yeah I can only play this when I'm doing something else at the same time like watching a DotA 2 match, especially as some people seem to take 90 seconds with every turn, fuck that.
What caught my interest was the grid layout and cards you play popping up there in physical form but novelty of that is going to wear out soon.
On June 24 2013 05:16 Tobberoth wrote: How do you guys recommend going about getting cards in the start? I just bought the game, picked growth and played some of the trials.. should I just spam 10 card packages, or is it better to buy single growth cards? I mean, the 10 pack is obviously the most cost efficient, but is it easy enough to get rid of cards you don't want? I mean in the future I will probably want to try hybrid decks and the other resources, but early on that's obviously not an option unless you buy the other starter decks.
If you know exactly what cards you want, then buying singles from other players rather than from the store is generally the best way to go. You just have to be patient and some times it can be hard to get in some of the trade channels with the 100 user limit, which hopefully they raise in the future. If you didn't know, there are lots of trade channels, you just have to manually join trading-1, trading-2, trading-3, ect. scrollspc.com will give you an idea of what the "average" value of cards are so you don't get totally ripped off. Of course you can sometimes find better deals or sell for more than what they list if you are patient. I usually make a list of the cards I am looking for and copy and paste it in trade chat every few minutes, alternating between the different trade channels. Something like:
BUYING: 1000g: Speed, Fertile Soil, Thunder Surge 600g: Honorable General 250g: Iron Whip
If you copy and paste it will keep the formatting on the text. Ideally at some point they add an auction house to make it much easier to sell and buy.
On June 24 2013 16:22 rob.au wrote: Thinking of getting this game, are there any other comparable games coming out soon that I might want to wait for instead?
Honestly though, for the price, I think Scrolls is simply just worth the money. Even if Hex and Hearthstone DO destroy scrolls when they are released, you would have played for far more than 15 euros worth, no doubt.
Do we know if these games are going to be based on microtransactions where you have to buy all your cards with real money?
Hex is definitely going to be selling cards by the pack for real money, though there is supposed to be a way to earn packs slowly for free. But considering how many packs many of the kickstarter contributors are going to get, I wouldn't expect to be competitive for a long time vs other people without spending quite a bit of real money. I haven't really followed Hearthstone that closely to say. I've enjoyed scrolls quite a bit, and while it's not perfect I feel I have gotten my money's worth.
i keep disconnecting in games where it tries to load a unit or something and then the games just never comes back. out of like 10games that ive tried to play, ive only been able to finish about 5 of them
On June 25 2013 02:45 PaqMan wrote: Can't decide if I should get this or not. I've never played a CCG in my life, but this looks pretty frackin sweet
I've been having the same conversation the past week or so. I get close to purchasing it and then wonder if I'll really put in the time playing it at this moment. I'm sure I'll end up buying it sooner or later.
When you go to join channels button, there is an option to type in the channel you want, so type trading-1, trading-2, trading-3, ect to join each one or find one that isn't full. Usually there are 8-9 trading channels with people.
Ok, and why do i not lose any rating when i lose, but gain some if i win, is that how it is supposed to work? Because that does not really make a lot of sense to me.
I'm pretty sure it depends on your rating and who beat you. If someone higher than you beats you, then you won't lose much or any if they are much higher. Losing to someone lower than you will make you lose more, and make them gain more.
It looks like Noaidi is going to be nerfed, they posted that they are testing a revised version that is 2/2/2, cost 3. Modified text is: When Noaidi comes into play, you can gain 1 resource of each non-Growth type your opponent has, making it much less appealing to mono-growth decks. Of course this change isn't official yet so it could change even more before it goes live.
On June 25 2013 03:52 Simberto wrote: Ok, and why do i not lose any rating when i lose, but gain some if i win, is that how it is supposed to work? Because that does not really make a lot of sense to me.
You don't start losing rating until you reach 1500. That's when real ranked play begins.
That is rather annoying. I don't feel like the deck i currently have is really competative at the level i am currently at. If i get really good draws and/or the enemy really bad ones, i can win. But i definitively lose more then i win, and each time i win, my rating still rises, giving me even stronger players with decks worth more then double of mine, making this an incredibly inefficient way of aquiring more gold to get more cards.
So do i really have to farm quick matches because there is no low level ranked in this game? That sounds rather stupid.
On June 25 2013 05:58 Simberto wrote: That is rather annoying. I don't feel like the deck i currently have is really competative at the level i am currently at. If i get really good draws and/or the enemy really bad ones, i can win. But i definitively lose more then i win, and each time i win, my rating still rises, giving me even stronger players with decks worth more then double of mine, making this an incredibly inefficient way of aquiring more gold to get more cards.
So do i really have to farm quick matches because there is no low level ranked in this game? That sounds rather stupid.
Trust me when I say that everyone feels exactly the same way in your bracket. The precon decks are meant to provide an overview of the colour and before decks become more defined games tend to be very luck based. Just use the time to find working strategies and figure out what you want/don't want in your deck.
Yeah, of course i am doing that. It would just feel a lot better to be able to do that in ranked games. I just don't understand why you would not have a low ranked ranked play. Basically, maybe my skill/deck combination is at about 900 rating level. But i will still win from time to time, so i have to play against 1500 people or play unranked. Why does that make any sense? Why can't i play in a lower ranked setting that actually works, and slowly work myself up, both deck and skillwise? I can't think of a single reason as to why that would make any sense at all.
I have already purged a lot of the precon deck out because i didn't like it, but i am apparently just missing quite a few cards i'd like to have compared to a lot of other people i am playing. There are still at least 10 cards in there which i sacrifice every single time i draw them, and another 5-10 which i'd really like to have something better. This is obviously not ideal.
On June 25 2013 12:40 Simberto wrote: Yeah, of course i am doing that. It would just feel a lot better to be able to do that in ranked games. I just don't understand why you would not have a low ranked ranked play. Basically, maybe my skill/deck combination is at about 900 rating level. But i will still win from time to time, so i have to play against 1500 people or play unranked. Why does that make any sense? Why can't i play in a lower ranked setting that actually works, and slowly work myself up, both deck and skillwise? I can't think of a single reason as to why that would make any sense at all.
I have already purged a lot of the precon deck out because i didn't like it, but i am apparently just missing quite a few cards i'd like to have compared to a lot of other people i am playing. There are still at least 10 cards in there which i sacrifice every single time i draw them, and another 5-10 which i'd really like to have something better. This is obviously not ideal.
small card pools, beta, and older players. I'm not sure taking scrolls competitively is even worth it right now.
On June 25 2013 04:00 karazax wrote: I'm pretty sure it depends on your rating and who beat you. If someone higher than you beats you, then you won't lose much or any if they are much higher. Losing to someone lower than you will make you lose more, and make them gain more.
It looks like Noaidi is going to be nerfed, they posted that they are testing a revised version that is 2/2/2, cost 3. Modified text is: When Noaidi comes into play, you can gain 1 resource of each non-Growth type your opponent has, making it much less appealing to mono-growth decks. Of course this change isn't official yet so it could change even more before it goes live.
most free resource cards are going to be rough to balance. BUt people get too into nerfing mobo growth which is the weakest deck, just because its a noob stomping deck and pretty popular because of that.
I feel the need for there to be more discussion on various decks, what have people tried out?
I still have very little knowledge of the various decks (I've read through most of the growth cards but not all of them) and it would be cool to look at a few cool deck ideas.
Has anyone seen anyone who has gone hardcore into making a growth wolf focused deck? Seems like it would be really fun to play, but since I haven't start played ranked yet, I have no idea how viable it would be.
Wolf decks are okay. they really need to get going to be good, which is unlike most growth decks, which make it pretty weak because growth is a pretty terrible deck choice for playing for the late game. they still beat a ton of bad players though.
i've played pretty much every deck at some point, but order/energy and mono energy, and the gravehawk deck, never played that.
On June 25 2013 15:49 Tobberoth wrote: I feel the need for there to be more discussion on various decks, what have people tried out?
I still have very little knowledge of the various decks (I've read through most of the growth cards but not all of them) and it would be cool to look at a few cool deck ideas.
Has anyone seen anyone who has gone hardcore into making a growth wolf focused deck? Seems like it would be really fun to play, but since I haven't start played ranked yet, I have no idea how viable it would be.
Here is a post by Zrave from the scrollsfans.com forums regarding his growth deck. He was ranked 2nd last time I checked:
Zrave wrote: Hello everyone. A lot of people have asked for my decklist, and I decided to share it today. I've been using a similar list since the launch of open beta, improving it as I gained more scrolls and knowledge.
Creatures (27):
3x Vaettr of the Wild
3x Ragged of the Wolf
3x Kinfolk Brave
3x Sister of the Fox
3x Brother of the Wolf
3x Mangy Wolf
3x Great Wolf
3x Kinfolk Veteran
3x Kinfolk Jarl
I like having a lot of creatures, since you can play them most of the time when drawn. Spells are a lot more circumstancial, and sometimes you may not have a good target or want to save them for later. Having too many spells creates the risk that you'll have a dud turn where you don't play anything and this could cost you dearly in high level play. I think this ensemble of creatures is pretty uncontroversial with the possible exception of the Kinfolk Jarl, which I like as a late game powerhouse. Having high health is important when facing decks that try to clear the board with Quake or other damage spells.
Structures (4):
3x Druid Burial Ground
2x Ancestral Totem
The growth resource is sorely lacking in 3-drops (with the exception of the new Noaidi card which I'm trying to get). I therefore added the Druid Burial Ground with the intention of playing it front and center, where it can protect my middle line from both direct damage and attacks. I like having some healing in my deck to deal with attrition, and Druid Burial Ground won out over Vitality Well, which while nice, usually only soaked one attack while Druid Burial Ground can usually handle 2. Finally, it's a great counter to Ranger's Bane cast on your second turn Kinfolk Brave.
Spells (18):
3x Potion of Resistance
3x Ranger's Bane
3x Fertile Soil
3x Rallying
3x Quake
3x God Hand
I have Ranger's Bane as a second means of dealing with Vaettr of the Wild, and it's also great against early Kinfolk Brave, Royal Spearman, and other annoyances. The purpose of the Potion of Resistance is to create inevitable attacks. For example, say I'm controlling the middle lane while my opponent has been filling the bottom row. If I move my troops down to engage him next turn, he has the opportunity to move his troops up and then God Hand etc and wipe out my army. Potion of Resistance ensures that my army will survive and wipe him out instead. Speaking of which, God Hand is my favorite scroll in the game. You could say the entire purpose of my deck is to survive long enough to cast a God Hand with lots of creatures out. Sometimes it takes several, I remember a game against Blinky where I had to cast 5 God Hands to win, any one of which I would have lost without. Quake is a great insurance card. It's worthless if you're winning but it helps equalize a losing game, especially in multiples back to back. I recommend trying to hold onto them unless you are certain you'll be the agressor in the match. Conversely, don't overcommit if you're expecting a Quake, especially the smaller creatures like Kinfolk Brave that would die right away. Fertile Soil is another key scroll, as the card advantage it generates allows you to ramp into the high-resource region without losing steam (I often end long games at 12-13 resources, enough to play a creature and God Hand in the same turn. Be careful when you use it though, because it comes at a heavy cost of tempo, which you might not be able to afford.
You'll notice that I don't have any enchantments, and that's because I don't like offering 2-1 deals to my opponent's removal. Sometimes they can work well, but at a risk of spectacular failure. I chose to just have more creatures and powerful spells instead.
I'm planning on making tutorial videos on youtube, and I'm also going to start streaming Scrolls in a couple of weeks when I return from my trip. Check out the following channels in July:
Growth, growth/order, and order seem to be the most common at the higher ratings, with energy often splashed in for potion of resistance, but primary energy decks are not as popular. Of course the game is new so things are still evolving.
On June 25 2013 16:34 PrinceXizor wrote: Wolf decks are okay. they really need to get going to be good, which is unlike most growth decks, which make it pretty weak because growth is a pretty terrible deck choice for playing for the late game. they still beat a ton of bad players though.
i've played pretty much every deck at some point, but order/energy and mono energy, and the gravehawk deck, never played that.
I am going to have disagree with that, Growth is so overpower in all stages of the game at the moment, their early game is non comparable with the other 2 colours. Their late game they have 2 super OP cards that allow them to regain control and advantage, those cards being Quake and Fertile Soil.
If we were to compare those cards to other 2 colours for Energy we have End of Reason/Thunder Surge and Clock Library, while Thunder Surge is quite good you can definitely play around it, next we have End of Reason which is such a godawful card in the current state due to Energy needing a board to win so basically you're sacing a board full of expensive units to basically restart the game. This would NOT be too bad if there was a way for Energy to replenish their hand which besides Clock Library they don't, Clock Library requires 4 turns to turn into a +2 and protecting that for 4 turns is not a easy task. You can of course speed up the process with Overdrive but in the end you would only be netting a +1 for 6 resources and STILL 2 turns which makes it all not worth it.
For Order they do not have a reset card such as Quake/End of Reason/Thunder Surge so once they lose the board control it is hard for them to regain it, they do have a pretty good draw engine in Heritage which nets you for a +1 but this is not in your control sadly it is in your opponents as you do not have any spells that can help you trigger it ie. Frost Gale/Quake
Now compare both of those colours to Growth, their early game is really strong with Sister of the Wolf, Vaettr of the Wild, and Kinfolk Brave, if they do run out of steam by mid game they can always reset the game more or less with Quake. In the late game you have access to Sister of the Wolf + Fertile Soil which basically is 6 cost for a net gain of +2 advantage on the same turn. Growth should always play for the late game because the other 2 colours cannot compete with them with their advantages with cards which will lead to other good spells such as Rallying + Crimson Bull combos and so on
On June 25 2013 21:31 karazax wrote: Growth, growth/order, and order seem to be the most common at the higher ratings, with energy often splashed in for potion of resistance, but primary energy decks are not as popular. Of course the game is new so things are still evolving.
Growth/Order is so strong because most of what's good about Order are their low cost spells such as Speed, Heritage, Kabonk, Focus, Pother, Decimation and so on. In the late game you can easily go Sister of the Wolf + Heritage + Heritage + Fertile Soil which is 6 resource for both colours for a net gain of +4
While Noaidi is strong that will not cripple the deck in anyway like I stated in my last post, they still have access to some of the strongest early game and late game spells, will it slow them down a bit yes probably but they will still be a very strong deck.
Instead I wish they can buff some of Energy's card such as End of Reason to make it playable at the very least
On June 25 2013 22:06 karazax wrote: Growth/Order draw is also gaining popularity, though I don't think it will work any more if the changes to Noaidi go live.
man.. that was a boring game. Are most games like this now? constant board wipes and just sacking for draws/cards/resources all the time? I've completely stopped playing this game, so I don't know... From the look of things, I certainly feel like my early assumption that the board really doesn't matter in terms of strategy is still holding true (in which case, why have a board at all?)
On June 26 2013 04:51 Quotidian wrote: man.. that was a boring game. Are most games like this now? constant board wipes and just sacking for draws/cards/resources all the time? I've completely stopped playing this game, so I don't know... From the look of things, I certainly feel like my early assumption that the board really doesn't matter in terms of strategy is still holding true (in which case, why have a board at all?)
Why have a board when you got cards like Quake? Not like you need all your totems to win in the early mid game you usually won't lose more then 1-2 so the Quake just resets the game and you proceed to get lots of card and resource advantage and then over run your opponent in late game
Watching replays of most CCG's aren't going to be exciting unless you are really into that particular game, but they are useful for seeing how a deck works. I think positioning on the board definitely matters, but for some decks it is more important than others. Part of the skill is knowing what to sac, what to keep, and when to go for resources or cards. Wiping the board is always a good goal, but successfully doing it and regaining control is easier said than done against a good player.
I get that some people don't like it and that's fine. Plenty of other games to choose from. But I have enjoyed playing so far, and look forward to seeing how the new Decay resource work out in the near future.
Playing G/O is kinda exciting. You sac 2 Idols every game and hope you can start wiping the board before 3rd idol falls. Against anything but Order ur totally fine when last idol is also damaged then you summon 15 hp on the lane and game is won.
Things that suck: Drawing no Quake at all, playing vs 3 Braves Round4, getting ur only unit for fertile soil wiped by a spell.
personally i dont find noaidi thats broken.... Im already starting to use metempsychosis in my GO draw deck to resummon everything: hatse, sister of the fox, even to memorials =))... The most broken part about go draw the way i see it is quake. It wipes the board way too fast that you not only benefit from enemy unit being killed but also from your heritage being popped. I think instead of damaging your own unit with quake, they should just make it to increase cd of units on your side by an absurd flat amount(3? 5?) or skipping your next turn....
On June 26 2013 15:27 NB wrote: personally i dont find noaidi thats broken.... Im already starting to use metempsychosis in my GO draw deck to resummon everything: hatse, sister of the fox, even to memorials =))... The most broken part about go draw the way i see it is quake. It wipes the board way too fast that you not only benefit from enemy unit being killed but also from your heritage being popped. I think instead of damaging your own unit with quake, they should just make it to increase cd of units on your side by an absurd flat amount(3? 5?) or skipping your next turn....
I agree. Quake is just way too good. Basically every growth deck runs Quake because it helps you recover so much. I can't recount the number of times I have my openent dead to rights. I outplayed him the entire game, he has 0 scrolls in hand. Then he casts 2-3 quakes in a row and I lose. For starters, quake needs to cost more.
It should be something like 7 Growth Deal 2 to all Decrease your growth mana by 2.
On June 25 2013 16:34 PrinceXizor wrote: Wolf decks are okay. they really need to get going to be good, which is unlike most growth decks, which make it pretty weak because growth is a pretty terrible deck choice for playing for the late game. they still beat a ton of bad players though.
i've played pretty much every deck at some point, but order/energy and mono energy, and the gravehawk deck, never played that.
I am going to have disagree with that, Growth is so overpower in all stages of the game at the moment, their early game is non comparable with the other 2 colours. Their late game they have 2 super OP cards that allow them to regain control and advantage, those cards being Quake and Fertile Soil.
If we were to compare those cards to other 2 colours for Energy we have End of Reason/Thunder Surge and Clock Library, while Thunder Surge is quite good you can definitely play around it, next we have End of Reason which is such a godawful card in the current state due to Energy needing a board to win so basically you're sacing a board full of expensive units to basically restart the game. This would NOT be too bad if there was a way for Energy to replenish their hand which besides Clock Library they don't, Clock Library requires 4 turns to turn into a +2 and protecting that for 4 turns is not a easy task. You can of course speed up the process with Overdrive but in the end you would only be netting a +1 for 6 resources and STILL 2 turns which makes it all not worth it.
For Order they do not have a reset card such as Quake/End of Reason/Thunder Surge so once they lose the board control it is hard for them to regain it, they do have a pretty good draw engine in Heritage which nets you for a +1 but this is not in your control sadly it is in your opponents as you do not have any spells that can help you trigger it ie. Frost Gale/Quake
Now compare both of those colours to Growth, their early game is really strong with Sister of the Wolf, Vaettr of the Wild, and Kinfolk Brave, if they do run out of steam by mid game they can always reset the game more or less with Quake. In the late game you have access to Sister of the Wolf + Fertile Soil which basically is 6 cost for a net gain of +2 advantage on the same turn. Growth should always play for the late game because the other 2 colours cannot compete with them with their advantages with cards which will lead to other good spells such as Rallying + Crimson Bull combos and so on
On June 25 2013 21:31 karazax wrote: Growth, growth/order, and order seem to be the most common at the higher ratings, with energy often splashed in for potion of resistance, but primary energy decks are not as popular. Of course the game is new so things are still evolving.
Growth/Order is so strong because most of what's good about Order are their low cost spells such as Speed, Heritage, Kabonk, Focus, Pother, Decimation and so on. In the late game you can easily go Sister of the Wolf + Heritage + Heritage + Fertile Soil which is 6 resource for both colours for a net gain of +4
This is a beautiful post. Pretty much sums up all the problems with growth right now. Also like to point out that Kinfolk Brave is the best 2 drop, and is ridiculous if you can't deal with him after he gets enchanted. Kinfolk Veteran is also a kick in the balls, and is almost always a kill a creature + get a really good creature for 5 mana.
nah, quick match isnt based on mmr at all. It is completely random. You could install mods to check your enemy mmr before the match. http://www.scrollsguide.com/summoner
On June 27 2013 21:15 NB wrote: nah, quick match isnt based on mmr at all. It is completely random. You could install mods to check your enemy mmr before the match. http://www.scrollsguide.com/summoner
I doubt that, as every single person with whom I've talked to has reported playing people just starting out and, as they win more, slowly getting better opponents. I only play against draw go players in quickmatch. Also, the thing about a hidden MMR is that it's... HIDDEN.
Yeah, when the game released I would exclusively play quick match and the queue went from instant to taking several minutes. I also noticed my opponents were all really good at that point too.
On June 28 2013 01:28 BliptiX wrote: Yeah, when the game released I would exclusively play quick match and the queue went from instant to taking several minutes. I also noticed my opponents were all really good at that point too.
Okay I think this makes the most sense. Otherwise people would be farming the crap outta newbs for gold (I've been shamelessly planning on this :D )
It was most noticeable when I played my 3rd ranked game ever and the guy was dropping Obelisks in the back column.
I realized then that in the past 50 games of quick match, not a single opp made "glaring" mistakes like that.
On June 28 2013 01:28 BliptiX wrote: Yeah, when the game released I would exclusively play quick match and the queue went from instant to taking several minutes. I also noticed my opponents were all really good at that point too.
Okay I think this makes the most sense. Otherwise people would be farming the crap outta newbs for gold (I've been shamelessly planning on this :D )
It was most noticeable when I played my 3rd ranked game ever and the guy was dropping Obelisks in the back column.
I realized then that in the past 50 games of quick match, not a single opp made "glaring" mistakes like that.
I've been playing closed beta for a while and I've been digging this little game!
Probably gonna be surprassed by Hearthstone but I'm having fun. Currently at ~1000 rating. It's really a matter of getting luck with scrolls and getting the good cards - or just spending IRL money and buying them out....
On June 28 2013 07:21 zazen wrote: I've been playing closed beta for a while and I've been digging this little game!
Probably gonna be surprassed by Hearthstone but I'm having fun. Currently at ~1000 rating. It's really a matter of getting luck with scrolls and getting the good cards - or just spending IRL money and buying them out....
Based on what blinky and the top tier player have said there is very little in the precon decks worth spending real money on. The "good" rare cards have to be found through random scrolls and the faction scrolls. ex. God Hand and Quake >.> .
Edit: or you could trade for them... but again you would need gold not shards.
god damn it, i just drop from 1700 to 1500 .... Mono Order has been really hard so far even though i got all the cards i needed. Personally, i think hybrid is the way to go since the memorial mechanic is really strong for a late game oriented play style. Given how many defensive low cost scrolls out there, it would surprise me 1 bit when i see hybrid decks rise to top tier.
On June 28 2013 11:22 NB wrote: god damn it, i just drop from 1700 to 1500 .... Mono Order has been really hard so far even though i got all the cards i needed. Personally, i think hybrid is the way to go since the memorial mechanic is really strong for a late game oriented play style. Given how many defensive low cost scrolls out there, it would surprise me 1 bit when i see hybrid decks rise to top tier.
edit: oh yeah selling jarls at 350g :D
Maybe your composition is off. I'm @ 1800+ with mono order, and I see 2k+ players running mono order.
On June 28 2013 11:22 NB wrote: god damn it, i just drop from 1700 to 1500 .... Mono Order has been really hard so far even though i got all the cards i needed. Personally, i think hybrid is the way to go since the memorial mechanic is really strong for a late game oriented play style. Given how many defensive low cost scrolls out there, it would surprise me 1 bit when i see hybrid decks rise to top tier.
edit: oh yeah selling jarls at 350g :D
Maybe your composition is off. I'm @ 1800+ with mono order, and I see 2k+ players running mono order.
i try to be flexible but there is not sweet spot to achieve 50% wr on all match up. Its always like 80-20 or 90-10. For example i used to run blinky mono order mangole-less deck but it got demolished by energy users. I tweak it and start losing to mono order, tweak again and lose to growth....
it is viable, i have run into many people who have the same deck as that and they destroy order like no tomorrow. You need to sack for resources and control enemy draw quite heavily though.
Am i the only one who has had zero problems with gold?
My tip is to NOT get random packs, as 1000 gold of random pack isn't likely to get you 1000 gold worth of cards
The average deck takes no more than 15k to make, which when you're farming for 300-400 gold a game doesn't take that long at all really. I play a game in 10-15 minutes and i get well over 1k gold an hour
I play maybe 1/2 hours a day and i've already built a top tier order deck and a top tier energy deck within that time
The key is to just check the trading channels in between games and look for deals, and spam for people looking to sell their cards and you slowly build the deck you want. Deck's really arn't as expensive as they sound, i.e my order deck is
3k on speed 2k on generals 1.5k in vanguards 1.5k in waking stones 1k on commons 1k in uncommons 1k on pothers 1.5k on imperial resources 2k on other "stuff" roughly 15k to build this deck
On June 28 2013 21:41 BrTarolg wrote: Am i the only one who has had zero problems with gold?
My tip is to NOT get random packs, as 1000 gold of random pack isn't likely to get you 1000 gold worth of cards
The average deck takes no more than 15k to make, which when you're farming for 300-400 gold a game doesn't take that long at all really. I play a game in 10-15 minutes and i get well over 1k gold an hour
I play maybe 1/2 hours a day and i've already built a top tier order deck and a top tier energy deck within that time
The key is to just check the trading channels in between games and look for deals, and spam for people looking to sell their cards and you slowly build the deck you want. Deck's really arn't as expensive as they sound, i.e my order deck is
3k on speed 2k on generals 1.5k in vanguards 1.5k in waking stones 1k on commons 1k in uncommons 1k on pothers 1.5k on imperial resources 2k on other "stuff" roughly 15k to build this deck
the only problem with what you did is that there is no 'perfect' deck to aim for. Its better to go and get every scrolls available and construct multiple decks than aiming for only 1 deck and have nothing else. By the time you filled up your deck, others could probably got more than 50% of all the cards that is available. Plus as you filled up your deck, you could always resell extras on the market to refilled your gold bank.
The problem with the random packs is if you buy them before you get a good deck as soon as you stop facing the preconstructed deck opponents (ie people who bought specific cards instead of packs) you get destroyed because your cards suck.
Yeah, i made that mistake. I used all my trial money on random packs. Now i got lots and lots of random cards, but not a single good deck, and have to farm gold in quick matches where each time i play i want to scream because my deck just sucks. I know that good cards exist, i just don't have them. I know that my deck is incredibly bad, but it is the best i can build out of the cards i own. It makes me want to stop playing because i know that i somehow have to gain 10-15k gold before i have a good deck. I guess playing with a good deck, and then expanding into other things is a much better idea then playing with the shit starter decks and slowly, slowly turning them into something that is not very horrible.
I bought packs of 10 cards for 1k, and everything in there is just bad. Meanwhile i lose games because i don't have a single quake, decimation or godhand, so i simply can not ever wipe the board if the enemy gets ahead in any way, i might as well surrender.
I actually think i just don't like TCGs. I thought the concept was cool, but having to farm so much gold just to have a deck that not sucks is annoying. Basically, i thought you have a cool deck, and make it cooler with new cards. Instead you have a shit deck, and have to farm for ages to have a not-shit deck.
I think a main problem is that there is no real low elo, and you gain nothing for losses. So i am stuck with my bad deck gaining no gold at all when i lose, playing against people with thunder surges and quakes and god hands and whatnots. Is there any reasonable way to gold that does not involve winning against other players or doing the hard challenges, for which either i or my deck is apparenty not good enough either? Or is there some sort of deck that actually works with cheap cards only?
I started with the worst pre-constructed deck (Order) and really can't say the experience was that bad. I think people are projecting their own inexperience onto their decks.
It would suck when I would run into people with several more rares than me but you deal with it, learn how to beat it with what you have and find the game all the easier when you do obtain the better cards to complete your deck.
The problem is that playing Growth, or any derivative thereof, without quake is just absurdly random. If you get good draws early on, you get running and never stop (unless the enemy has some way to clear the board). If you are behind, you stay behind, and die.
I think the main problem is that you gain NOTHING when you lose. So you feel like you have to win to progress. But your deck actively hinders your ability to win because you KNOW which cards you want in there, but you don't have them. So you lose, gain nothing, and are annoyed. This is how i feel at the moment. If i had cards, i could win and get gold and get more cards. But since i don't have the cards, i lose, don't get gold, don't get additional cards, and will never get out of it. This could be solved by having actual low Elo so people can win no matter how bad their decks are, but that doesn't exist either due to the stupid not losing points for the first 1500.
why are you discussing ELO? just play quick match if you dont have a good deck. Quick match is completely random and is the place to farm up if you dont have a strong deck. Plus completing the trials alone should already given you a decent amount of cash to get a head start. Personally i dont have experience with precon of Growth and Energy but Order also has a huge drawing disadvantage, i guess every deck has its own story.
Except that it is not. There is a hidden ranking in there too. And since the ranking system this game uses is retarded the same problem persists there too. You need to have a minimum capable deck, or you will start losing a lot very quickly because you can not lose ranking at the beginning. I just assume that they use the same ranking system for quick matches too.
And as i said before, i spent the money from trial on random scrolls, which was apparently a bad decision, since now i got lots of crappy order cards, lots of crappy energy cards, and lots of crappy growth cards.
It is fun to open boosters and when you first start you may not want to invest time into learning which decks and cards are the best and just want to hop in and play.
On June 29 2013 03:27 Simberto wrote: Except that it is not. There is a hidden ranking in there too. And since the ranking system this game uses is retarded the same problem persists there too. You need to have a minimum capable deck, or you will start losing a lot very quickly because you can not lose ranking at the beginning. I just assume that they use the same ranking system for quick matches too.
And as i said before, i spent the money from trial on random scrolls, which was apparently a bad decision, since now i got lots of crappy order cards, lots of crappy energy cards, and lots of crappy growth cards.
there are no hidden ranking.... I play quick match with people who are 1900s one game and 1400s in the other. And if there is a hidden rating, there shouldnt be one because people just gona swap their decks around and the rating doesnt mean shit. Unless they have a rating for each deck you have, which is stupid because i constantly rebuilt my, rating matchmaking would not work in quick match at all.
On June 29 2013 08:30 BliptiX wrote: It is fun to open boosters and when you first start you may not want to invest time into learning which decks and cards are the best and just want to hop in and play.
True
You'll find very quickly that if you play ranked matches cards are cheap and come by very easy. I hardly play and i've got multiple top tier decks capable of being 1800+
But it is important i don't have most of the trash that people get (like 5x of every common, - something you see a lot in trade lists where guys have only bought random packs lol)
Be at least wary that if you only buy random packs you will NEVER be able to build a top tier deck from random only, it will be extremely difficult
I am really excited for Wings shield. I have always thought that armor is an insanely strong mechanic and this one just look perfectly fit for order :D
On June 29 2013 03:45 whoso wrote: that automata forge looks insanely strong : D nice one
agreed, can't wait to try out OE no creature/mass removal and win w/ just DD to idols haha
question is, will it be able to substitute hellspitters or only the secondary walls (such as pumps etc.)
unfortunately i just dumped my gold for GO draw cards, won't be able to find out for a while hehe
oh yeah well i really cant see myself paying the 3k+ g for the forge, and i guess its going to take a looong time until prices drop to a reasonable level unless they introduce the new cards in a clever way
On June 29 2013 22:00 FortuneSyn wrote: woohoo I just made it in top 100 =D
Nice what deck?
I broke 1800 a few times but i keep losing it back. I played mono energy (lol) and then i switched to mono-order
Main issue is more and more growth players splashing order now making mono order weaker and weaker, so i think i might have to switch to some kind of growth based deck if i really wanna steam ahead
On June 29 2013 22:00 FortuneSyn wrote: woohoo I just made it in top 100 =D
Nice what deck?
I broke 1800 a few times but i keep losing it back. I played mono energy (lol) and then i switched to mono-order
Main issue is more and more growth players splashing order now making mono order weaker and weaker, so i think i might have to switch to some kind of growth based deck if i really wanna steam ahead
I play mono order with waking stone + summon, and a lot of draw cards to get imperial resources rolling. I'm constantly tweaking tho.. I'm begining to feel (not sure yet tho) that relying on waking stone could be weak because of order decks and growth/ordersplash decks that have pother and/or flip.
Growth is damn strong. fertile soil, sisters are so sick to ramp up. I don't think order is underpowered tho, I know there are order players in top 10. What really carries order in my opinion is imperial resources, else u can't keep up with growth in the end game.
PrinceXisor, I'll take those god hands if you don't need em.
Also, I've been experimenting with callback (Mono Growth order splash, and growth triple color decks), metempsychosis (triple color decks), and purification (mono order) lately. i feel there's some potential, especially purification.
On June 29 2013 22:00 FortuneSyn wrote: woohoo I just made it in top 100 =D
Nice what deck?
I broke 1800 a few times but i keep losing it back. I played mono energy (lol) and then i switched to mono-order
Main issue is more and more growth players splashing order now making mono order weaker and weaker, so i think i might have to switch to some kind of growth based deck if i really wanna steam ahead
I play mono order with waking stone + summon, and a lot of draw cards to get imperial resources rolling. I'm constantly tweaking tho.. I'm begining to feel (not sure yet tho) that relying on waking stone could be weak because of order decks and growth/ordersplash decks that have pother and/or flip.
Growth is damn strong. fertile soil, sisters are so sick to ramp up. I don't think order is underpowered tho, I know there are order players in top 10. What really carries order in my opinion is imperial resources, else u can't keep up with growth in the end game.
Yeah im pretty interested these days what mono order guys run
i ran 3x summon +waking but it felt like overkill a lot of the time
Also waking stones SUCK against pother and flip - and soooo many growth players splash for pother now because its THAT good.
One loss to pother and you basically lose the game vs growth or order
Vsing order seems to just be holding an early game advantage and basically going first = GG most of the time
Vsing energy is "lol" as flip totally owns energy, as does pother and pusback. Imperial resources is just the extra kick in the nuts. You just have to be smart in that you can play much slower vs energy
I've stopped running heritage now, i think running imp resources is better in general
Vs growth it's basically "keep your stuff alive" so it's advantageous to play near the bottom of the board with waking stones and stuff
On June 29 2013 03:27 Simberto wrote: Except that it is not. There is a hidden ranking in there too. And since the ranking system this game uses is retarded the same problem persists there too. You need to have a minimum capable deck, or you will start losing a lot very quickly because you can not lose ranking at the beginning. I just assume that they use the same ranking system for quick matches too.
And as i said before, i spent the money from trial on random scrolls, which was apparently a bad decision, since now i got lots of crappy order cards, lots of crappy energy cards, and lots of crappy growth cards.
there are no hidden ranking.... I play quick match with people who are 1900s one game and 1400s in the other. And if there is a hidden rating, there shouldnt be one because people just gona swap their decks around and the rating doesnt mean shit. Unless they have a rating for each deck you have, which is stupid because i constantly rebuilt my, rating matchmaking would not work in quick match at all.
NB, this is your argument.
1. There is no hidden ranking for quick matches that is separate/different from displayed ratings for ranked matches. 2. The proof is that I look at people's shown rating used for ranked matches and they are different from user to user.
On June 29 2013 03:27 Simberto wrote: Except that it is not. There is a hidden ranking in there too. And since the ranking system this game uses is retarded the same problem persists there too. You need to have a minimum capable deck, or you will start losing a lot very quickly because you can not lose ranking at the beginning. I just assume that they use the same ranking system for quick matches too.
And as i said before, i spent the money from trial on random scrolls, which was apparently a bad decision, since now i got lots of crappy order cards, lots of crappy energy cards, and lots of crappy growth cards.
there are no hidden ranking.... I play quick match with people who are 1900s one game and 1400s in the other. And if there is a hidden rating, there shouldnt be one because people just gona swap their decks around and the rating doesnt mean shit. Unless they have a rating for each deck you have, which is stupid because i constantly rebuilt my, rating matchmaking would not work in quick match at all.
NB, this is your argument.
1. There is no hidden ranking for quick matches that is separate/different from displayed ratings for ranked matches. 2. The proof is that I look at people's shown rating used for ranked matches and they are different from user to user.
Do you see the problem with what you're saying?
Im not trying to prove you wrong. I am just saying that there shouldnt be a rating for quick match OR, if there is, it is ineffective. People dont take quick match seriously, its where you go in with a incompleted deck, or testing out a brand new one. People who have confident in their deck would have played for ranked for a better gold income.
Think about it from a game design perspective, how/why would you rate/label something that is so inconsistent as people keep changing their deck constantly? By my observation so far, quickmatch is almost always an instant queue compare to ranked. It could be because of the larger player pool, but there is also a chance of them having no rating algorithm and just match you according to server location.
Because there are still large differences in level of play. You might just be testing random shit, but you are still way better then the guy who just bought the game, has no idea how it works, and plays with his starter deck. Or the guy that actually managed to make the starter deck worse by putting that cool imperial ressources card he found into his growth deck, which now consists of a total of 85 cards because why shouldn't he put those cool cards he found in there? And i assure you that those people exist.
I would be very, very surprised if there was absolutely no rating involved here, simply because that would make the game a lot less enjoyable for pretty much anyone. If you are playing quick matches and don't constantly have weird games where one side is just way better than the other, there is probably a ranking system involved. If there is none, most of the games will consist of someone just smashing a substantially weaker player.
Also, coming from LoL, unranked is not only where people go if they feel uncomfortable. They might also just not want the pressure associated with being ranked (this is a pretty large demographic). Or they want to troll by doing weird shit.
On June 30 2013 15:52 rob.au wrote: Am I the only one who's ranked games go for 30+ rounds and take over an hour?
Depends on what type of deck you have. I'm very aggressive mono growth and my games end usually somewhere around round 20 - 25, and are decided far before that (around round 15).
On June 29 2013 22:00 FortuneSyn wrote: woohoo I just made it in top 100 =D
Nice what deck?
I broke 1800 a few times but i keep losing it back. I played mono energy (lol) and then i switched to mono-order
Main issue is more and more growth players splashing order now making mono order weaker and weaker, so i think i might have to switch to some kind of growth based deck if i really wanna steam ahead
I play mono order with waking stone + summon, and a lot of draw cards to get imperial resources rolling. I'm constantly tweaking tho.. I'm begining to feel (not sure yet tho) that relying on waking stone could be weak because of order decks and growth/ordersplash decks that have pother and/or flip.
Growth is damn strong. fertile soil, sisters are so sick to ramp up. I don't think order is underpowered tho, I know there are order players in top 10. What really carries order in my opinion is imperial resources, else u can't keep up with growth in the end game.
Yeah im pretty interested these days what mono order guys run
i ran 3x summon +waking but it felt like overkill a lot of the time
Also waking stones SUCK against pother and flip - and soooo many growth players splash for pother now because its THAT good.
One loss to pother and you basically lose the game vs growth or order
Vsing order seems to just be holding an early game advantage and basically going first = GG most of the time
Vsing energy is "lol" as flip totally owns energy, as does pother and pusback. Imperial resources is just the extra kick in the nuts. You just have to be smart in that you can play much slower vs energy
I've stopped running heritage now, i think running imp resources is better in general
Vs growth it's basically "keep your stuff alive" so it's advantageous to play near the bottom of the board with waking stones and stuff
I get pothered flipped all the time, but it can be manageable. For pother, cover the flanks with waking stones or spearmen so it can't move, and/or heritage the important units he would like to pother to kill. As for flip, you gotta remember that it doesn't draw a card; therefore he's spending 1 card to kill 1 or 2 cards. 1 for 1 trade I'm not worried about because I just throw the waking stone back in place or put a new one there. If there's a chance for him to do a 1 for 2 card trade, you can heritage one of the cards, and it'll be a 1 for 1 card trade at best.
Spearmen are highly valuable against growth, even if you already have a waking stone out. Put a heritage on him and then just get in the face of any unit he wants to attack with. If he kills it thats fine, you get +2 cards and apply 2 - 4 spike dmg on his units.
Heritage is a must I think. Let's say he's got board position over you in center. Throw like a skirmisher on the board on one side. If he wants to deal with that skirmisher he has to give up some mid position. He then kills it. You just made ur order deck cycle faster, prevented damage on idols, and got him out of position, without losing any cards. Now you have an opportunity to establish position on the top or mid with waking stone.
Waking stones are very mobile with transposition and pother. Get some position on one side of the board with waking stones, then just move them closer to center when you need to. If he flipped your waking stone somewhere, just bring it back with transposition.
Transposition, summon, pother, kabonk, heritage, imperial resources, they all make your deck run really really fast. It's not uncommon for me to cast 4 imperial resources in a match.
I tried dropping waking stones from my deck last night but it gets so hard vs growth =/. It is definitely doable tho, most order player I run into don't run waking stones + summons.
i just ditch my entire order deck for a semi completed growth after the order one drag me all the way down to low 1500s. Now im using this growth deck and have been winning consistently, almost 1700 now. Im not saying that growth is imbalance, just that it sure suits me way better than order.
I've been trying to get a hang of the game before I spend any money on cards so that I don't waste gold on stuff I won't end up using. So far I've just done trials... are some of them supposed to be really hard? lol because I've definitely struggled with a few. The one where the other guy started with 5 wolves was tough and now I'm doing the one with the giant ogre. The most success I have with trials like these are where I try to stay out of the enemy units' way and sacrifice an idol or two while building up an outside line. All these starter order cards seem to want to be used in combos so they're weak unless you already have a bunch of guys on the field.
edit- i suppose my thought traps are going to be quite useful against this ogre
Yes, some of the hard challenges are pretty hard, and having a good deck is of use. The starter decks are just plain bad. They have lots and lots of different cards in them, meaning you are completely reliant on RNG to get you the cards you need in a given situation.
The Ogre challenge is kind of silly if you have any kind of immobilisation spell, because you just sack one idol and then have that guy stand there all game long doing nothing. The ones i have not yet been able to do with my growth deck which is slowly getting containing all of the good growth cards are those two hard ones where the enemy starts with absurd amounts of units which just kill you idols in 3-4 turns. I am kind of confused as to how those are supposed to be done.
The others were a lot easier once i actually got a kind of ok deck.
I'd suggest just building some sort of deck that makes a bit of sense. Most commons and uncommons are pretty cheap, so you really shouldn't run around with a deck consisting of 30 types of cards, half of which you just want to sac each time you draw them any longer then absolutely necessary.
On July 01 2013 12:56 GGQ wrote: Just started up and picked order.
I've been trying to get a hang of the game before I spend any money on cards so that I don't waste gold on stuff I won't end up using. So far I've just done trials... are some of them supposed to be really hard? lol because I've definitely struggled with a few. The one where the other guy started with 5 wolves was tough and now I'm doing the one with the giant ogre. The most success I have with trials like these are where I try to stay out of the enemy units' way and sacrifice an idol or two while building up an outside line. All these starter order cards seem to want to be used in combos so they're weak unless you already have a bunch of guys on the field.
edit- i suppose my thought traps are going to be quite useful against this ogre
starting deck for order is actually pretty decent compare to other 2s. The reason is that Order doesnt need a lot of rare scrolls to function properly. My advice to you is to watch stream/youtube vods of high level game play and start copying that in quick match. Trial could be saved for later when you get a really strong deck and understand the game a bit more.
About gold spending, personally i think its fine to spend them all on random scrolls pack of 10. Its the cheapest way you could get scrolls in the game and since they are random, they gona give you chance to explore the game more, learning other resources gameplay. The only useless thing in the game is the Avatar but some of them looks really nice .
Decay concepts is leaked. Man the art style is blowing away. The color scheme reminds me of Diablo 1-2
Maybe I am missing something, but it looks like those are all just fan suggestions:
Ramzalore wrote:
So I subbed just last week to this subreddit, and saw the post on ideas for some concept scrolls, but had no clue how to create my own etc. I figured out how to do it now - and wanted to share with the community the scrolls I'd love to see in decay. Would love any feedback / discussion / thoughts!
The only confirmed info I have found on Decay is this, which are cards that used to be other faction, but were removed to be in decay in alpha:
Though I haven't searched since last week to see if any new info has been released.
On June 29 2013 22:00 FortuneSyn wrote: woohoo I just made it in top 100 =D
Nice what deck?
I broke 1800 a few times but i keep losing it back. I played mono energy (lol) and then i switched to mono-order
Main issue is more and more growth players splashing order now making mono order weaker and weaker, so i think i might have to switch to some kind of growth based deck if i really wanna steam ahead
I play mono order with waking stone + summon, and a lot of draw cards to get imperial resources rolling. I'm constantly tweaking tho.. I'm begining to feel (not sure yet tho) that relying on waking stone could be weak because of order decks and growth/ordersplash decks that have pother and/or flip.
Growth is damn strong. fertile soil, sisters are so sick to ramp up. I don't think order is underpowered tho, I know there are order players in top 10. What really carries order in my opinion is imperial resources, else u can't keep up with growth in the end game.
Yeah im pretty interested these days what mono order guys run
i ran 3x summon +waking but it felt like overkill a lot of the time
Also waking stones SUCK against pother and flip - and soooo many growth players splash for pother now because its THAT good.
One loss to pother and you basically lose the game vs growth or order
Vsing order seems to just be holding an early game advantage and basically going first = GG most of the time
Vsing energy is "lol" as flip totally owns energy, as does pother and pusback. Imperial resources is just the extra kick in the nuts. You just have to be smart in that you can play much slower vs energy
I've stopped running heritage now, i think running imp resources is better in general
Vs growth it's basically "keep your stuff alive" so it's advantageous to play near the bottom of the board with waking stones and stuff
I get pothered flipped all the time, but it can be manageable. For pother, cover the flanks with waking stones or spearmen so it can't move, and/or heritage the important units he would like to pother to kill. As for flip, you gotta remember that it doesn't draw a card; therefore he's spending 1 card to kill 1 or 2 cards. 1 for 1 trade I'm not worried about because I just throw the waking stone back in place or put a new one there. If there's a chance for him to do a 1 for 2 card trade, you can heritage one of the cards, and it'll be a 1 for 1 card trade at best.
Spearmen are highly valuable against growth, even if you already have a waking stone out. Put a heritage on him and then just get in the face of any unit he wants to attack with. If he kills it thats fine, you get +2 cards and apply 2 - 4 spike dmg on his units.
Heritage is a must I think. Let's say he's got board position over you in center. Throw like a skirmisher on the board on one side. If he wants to deal with that skirmisher he has to give up some mid position. He then kills it. You just made ur order deck cycle faster, prevented damage on idols, and got him out of position, without losing any cards. Now you have an opportunity to establish position on the top or mid with waking stone.
Waking stones are very mobile with transposition and pother. Get some position on one side of the board with waking stones, then just move them closer to center when you need to. If he flipped your waking stone somewhere, just bring it back with transposition.
Transposition, summon, pother, kabonk, heritage, imperial resources, they all make your deck run really really fast. It's not uncommon for me to cast 4 imperial resources in a match.
I tried dropping waking stones from my deck last night but it gets so hard vs growth =/. It is definitely doable tho, most order player I run into don't run waking stones + summons.
I might switch to a lategame order style. ATM i'm running a REALLY heavy earlygame style which is hurting me vs good players who know how to barely survive (quake anyone?)
I might even drop pushback and start using more transposition, mangonels, pother and drop flip. 3x imp and 3x heritage on top as well
Just ran into an ORder deck that splashed 4 into growth for fertile soil and deathcap berserk. Proved to me that order if given card draw is the best deck possible. He deathcapped a knight scholar, and gave it 2x elan vital over the course of the game. that knight ended up drawing him 14 cards.
Deathcap has some stupid interactions with order and energy cards. >.< I've seen a pump the cannon deck as well, cannon automaton with deathcap and bloodboil (so it takes 1 damage every turn, and increases its attack by 1 every turn as well as attacks every turn), and then they just redesign the unit as it gets low to start it over again. i was actually impressed by that. But then again those decks probably only work until they run into an order deck since only order can deal with that outside of violent dispersal, which i have yet to actually see played.
On July 01 2013 21:57 PrinceXizor wrote: Just ran into an ORder deck that splashed 4 into growth for fertile soil and deathcap berserk. Proved to me that order if given card draw is the best deck possible. He deathcapped a knight scholar, and gave it 2x elan vital over the course of the game. that knight ended up drawing him 14 cards.
Deathcap has some stupid interactions with order and energy cards. >.< I've seen a pump the cannon deck as well, cannon automaton with deathcap and bloodboil (so it takes 1 damage every turn, and increases its attack by 1 every turn as well as attacks every turn), and then they just redesign the unit as it gets low to start it over again. i was actually impressed by that. But then again those decks probably only work until they run into an order deck since only order can deal with that outside of violent dispersal, which i have yet to actually see played.
haha, that sounds so fun to play with.... I wish i have a 3rd fert soil to mess around with these decks. The main problem with going hybrid build like this is how do you gain energy? Do you waste 6/50 scrolls for memorial or you play slow early on and just go up manually(sacking each turn). I mean if you look at GO draw for example, late game pretty much nothing beat that deck. But early game it requires such a huge set up time that most people could rush it down pretty handily. So may be your deck is lacking of early game power? or maybe just bad draw.
On July 01 2013 21:57 PrinceXizor wrote: Just ran into an ORder deck that splashed 4 into growth for fertile soil and deathcap berserk. Proved to me that order if given card draw is the best deck possible. He deathcapped a knight scholar, and gave it 2x elan vital over the course of the game. that knight ended up drawing him 14 cards.
Deathcap has some stupid interactions with order and energy cards. >.< I've seen a pump the cannon deck as well, cannon automaton with deathcap and bloodboil (so it takes 1 damage every turn, and increases its attack by 1 every turn as well as attacks every turn), and then they just redesign the unit as it gets low to start it over again. i was actually impressed by that. But then again those decks probably only work until they run into an order deck since only order can deal with that outside of violent dispersal, which i have yet to actually see played.
This sounds like low level elo stuff. Splashing for 4 is generally badd........Elan vital is generally bad also. He went all in on a unit and you didnt have the card to stop it. Pushback, binding root, purification, dryadic power, violent dispersal, etc. I can not see anyone at higher tier (top 100--and I have played most people in top 100) running DCB, bloodboil, elan vital, or Knight scholar (except in draw decks, but 5 cost 2/6 is pretty bad).
On July 01 2013 21:57 PrinceXizor wrote: Just ran into an ORder deck that splashed 4 into growth for fertile soil and deathcap berserk. Proved to me that order if given card draw is the best deck possible. He deathcapped a knight scholar, and gave it 2x elan vital over the course of the game. that knight ended up drawing him 14 cards.
Deathcap has some stupid interactions with order and energy cards. >.< I've seen a pump the cannon deck as well, cannon automaton with deathcap and bloodboil (so it takes 1 damage every turn, and increases its attack by 1 every turn as well as attacks every turn), and then they just redesign the unit as it gets low to start it over again. i was actually impressed by that. But then again those decks probably only work until they run into an order deck since only order can deal with that outside of violent dispersal, which i have yet to actually see played.
This sounds like low level elo stuff. Splashing for 4 is generally badd........Elan vital is generally bad also. He went all in on a unit and you didnt have the card to stop it. Pushback, binding root, purification, dryadic power, violent dispersal, etc. I can not see anyone at higher tier (top 100--and I have played most people in top 100) running DCB, bloodboil, elan vital, or Knight scholar (except in draw decks, but 5 cost 2/6 is pretty bad).
he was 1900ish. Its not that binding root actually does a damn thing to knight scholar being used as a draw a card a turn unit. dryadic power doesn't either. mono green doesn't have anything short of spamming ranger on a card or spamming quake to remove a card.
i don't get why you could be playing vs top 100 people if you don't actually understand what cards do? or if you couldn't figure out a draw deck by the cards fertile soil and knight scholar being used in a deck together
I like the concept but not the elan vitals. I would sooner run resonant helm in a draw deck since you will easily cast more than 2 spells a round. Saves you from needing to enchant a unit 3x and has nice interactions with waking stones as well.
It's rough to find room in a draw deck for all those as is though.
On July 02 2013 01:30 BliptiX wrote: I like the concept but not the elan vitals. I would sooner run resonant helm in a draw deck since you will easily cast more than 2 spells a round. Saves you from needing to enchant a unit 3x and has nice interactions with waking stones as well.
It's rough to find room in a draw deck for all those as is though.
im pretty sure most people prefer druid over elan bc its also a cheap wall. You want something to tank while your hurted unit is healing.
On July 02 2013 01:30 BliptiX wrote: I like the concept but not the elan vitals. I would sooner run resonant helm in a draw deck since you will easily cast more than 2 spells a round. Saves you from needing to enchant a unit 3x and has nice interactions with waking stones as well.
It's rough to find room in a draw deck for all those as is though.
im pretty sure most people prefer druid over elan bc its also a cheap wall. You want something to tank while your hurted unit is healing.
probably. but it looked like he only had 4 different growth cards in his deck.
OK I got tired of microing order troops and stones. Currently trying out GO draw type decks. Holy shit Divine Mark is a good card. Obivously OP on kinfolk veteran. Throw it on a ragged wolf and it'll stop all relentless dmg + free pushback omg.
On July 01 2013 21:57 PrinceXizor wrote: Just ran into an ORder deck that splashed 4 into growth for fertile soil and deathcap berserk. Proved to me that order if given card draw is the best deck possible. He deathcapped a knight scholar, and gave it 2x elan vital over the course of the game. that knight ended up drawing him 14 cards.
Deathcap has some stupid interactions with order and energy cards. >.< I've seen a pump the cannon deck as well, cannon automaton with deathcap and bloodboil (so it takes 1 damage every turn, and increases its attack by 1 every turn as well as attacks every turn), and then they just redesign the unit as it gets low to start it over again. i was actually impressed by that. But then again those decks probably only work until they run into an order deck since only order can deal with that outside of violent dispersal, which i have yet to actually see played.
This sounds like low level elo stuff. Splashing for 4 is generally badd........Elan vital is generally bad also. He went all in on a unit and you didnt have the card to stop it. Pushback, binding root, purification, dryadic power, violent dispersal, etc. I can not see anyone at higher tier (top 100--and I have played most people in top 100) running DCB, bloodboil, elan vital, or Knight scholar (except in draw decks, but 5 cost 2/6 is pretty bad).
he was 1900ish. Its not that binding root actually does a damn thing to knight scholar being used as a draw a card a turn unit. dryadic power doesn't either. mono green doesn't have anything short of spamming ranger on a card or spamming quake to remove a card.
i don't get why you could be playing vs top 100 people if you don't actually understand what cards do? or if you couldn't figure out a draw deck by the cards fertile soil and knight scholar being used in a deck together
I dont know. I am top 100 also. I have never seen anyone using knight scholar or elan vital in a draw deck. Doesnt seem that good to me.
On July 01 2013 21:57 PrinceXizor wrote: Just ran into an ORder deck that splashed 4 into growth for fertile soil and deathcap berserk. Proved to me that order if given card draw is the best deck possible. He deathcapped a knight scholar, and gave it 2x elan vital over the course of the game. that knight ended up drawing him 14 cards.
Deathcap has some stupid interactions with order and energy cards. >.< I've seen a pump the cannon deck as well, cannon automaton with deathcap and bloodboil (so it takes 1 damage every turn, and increases its attack by 1 every turn as well as attacks every turn), and then they just redesign the unit as it gets low to start it over again. i was actually impressed by that. But then again those decks probably only work until they run into an order deck since only order can deal with that outside of violent dispersal, which i have yet to actually see played.
That's some pretty sick interactions. Deathcap berserk might be underrated (i've never played against it once); countdown decrease is basically the most powerful mechanic in the game I feel. If you can consistently play around the dmg taken it could be quite strong. Elan vital sounds so bad tho -.-
So far my main deck is my energy-only deck, I spent most of my gold trading for it (including giving a Fertile Soil for Volatile Dispersion.)
But I feel like I have enough to build another deck. I've bought like 30 packs so far and growth starter deck. I want to build a dual color deck. Which should I go for? G/E, E/O or G/O?
G/O is still considered super strong at top tiers even after the naoidi nerf. E/O can be good if you have all of the cards.
P.s. Fertile Soil for VD is only like a 150 gold loss. When it comes to trading i have the mentality that I will overpay if it saves me enough time to win a game because the gold is so easy to come by. I am sitting on near 20k gold with every card already.
So, is there really a I-WIN deck at the top tiers? What kind of deck are the top 10 using? The game SEEMS balanced, but I wonder if any type is having the edge right now.
I feel like my pure Energy has been really strong, I wonder how that'll do in top tier. I think I have "all the cards", I'm happy with 2x Volatile Dispersion and Thunder Surge.
pure energy cant do much top tier vs growth since they got rushed down pretty damn fast (and if not, QUAKE). Im currently using a deck of the rank 2 guy. Its mainly wolf with 1 point into order for pother and transposition(which i never use unless extreme cases). I dont think i have lost to any energy user since i started using this deck.... may be once when i got bad draw but still.
On July 02 2013 09:10 zazen wrote: So, is there really a I-WIN deck at the top tiers? What kind of deck are the top 10 using? The game SEEMS balanced, but I wonder if any type is having the edge right now.
I feel like my pure Energy has been really strong, I wonder how that'll do in top tier. I think I have "all the cards", I'm happy with 2x Volatile Dispersion and Thunder Surge.
It's a lot closer than you think, but what sits at the top is all about metagame and not raw strength
Having said that, growth is generally considered the strongest They have the best sweeping cards (quake, fertile) - the best draw mechanics (eye of eagle, sister, soil). Kinfolk vet is also kinda OP haha
Monogrowth and growth/ordersplash aswell as GO ramp are very common decks at the top. Mono order sits behind that and makes an appearing near the top by running anti growth cards, as does some energy decks
I really like the concept of this game, always wanted to play TCGs, but had no money to do so, and I like the board element. I'm bit worried though that the stagnant play at the moment is causing players to leave. To elaborate on the stagnant play, I don't think any of the exiting cards even need to be altered, but new cards definitely need to be introduced.
Edit: This situation feels like the same thing that happened to the SC2 community where people's fear that the game would not be relevant anymore actually caused some people to leave. This community is smaller than SC2 as well....
Edit2: I know the game is still in beta but, I'm worried that if scrolls doesn't retain the players attention the other myriad of online TCGs coming out will suck them up.
I really like the concept of this game, always wanted to play TCGs, but had no money to do so, and I like the board element. I'm bit worried though that the stagnant play at the moment is causing players to leave. To elaborate on the stagnant play, I don't think any of the exiting cards even need to be altered, but new cards definitely need to be introduced.
Edit: This situation feels like the same thing that happened to the SC2 community where people's fear that the game would not be relevant anymore actually caused some people to leave. This community is smaller than SC2 as well....
Edit2: I know the game is still in beta but, I'm worried that if scrolls doesn't retain the players attention the other myriad of online TCGs coming out will suck them up.
hmm well sometimes such worries are well justified unfortunately. im still traumatized by some indie games that i was playing seriously which pretty much lost their playerbase. in the end, 15/20 bucks is actually a pretty big amount for the open beta of a somewhat indie game, and there is heavy competition coming up this year in the tcg sector. on the other hand, since scrolls is the first tcg i play seriously, im not too worried as i see this game as an opportunity to get to learn the mindset and strategies needed to succeed in such a game, so if it turns out other games will take over, ill consider switching as well.
On July 02 2013 23:07 karazax wrote: I think Decay will probably release some time this month and shake things up.
I think it's fairly stupid of them to be focusing resources on Decay at this point. Their primary goal right now should be doubling the card pool of the three existing decks, not adding yet another shallow deck which yields at most 2 viable strategies.
On July 02 2013 23:16 whoso wrote: why would so many people play decimation? it looks like a terribad version of infernal blast to me
extremely good in term of idol damage. It makes your opponent to miscalculate on whether a 1-2 HP idol is still alive or dead and committing their defends on 1 spot. The price of decimation went up to 1k range during the GOdraw era.
On July 04 2013 14:59 heartlxp wrote: anyone try out the new cards yet? paying 2k for the new self-gen wall is rough!
Forge is pretty strong. It provides the dumb pile for your left over mana late game and give energy players the meat shield they need to build up their force. I only play against it, dont know how it feel to use it yet.
Stag heart feel hard to use. The main problem is that you need to get at least 2 out for the card to paid off(+2+2 each for 2 Gmana). And by the time you get 2 out, whoever you are playing against probably has the ability to destroy the target that you are casting it on. And the choice of casting both on 1 unit or 2 separate unit is also make it quite unique to use. I think this card will be great in an order splash growth deck but right now collecting all 3 is already hard enough.
I dont know about the new order card. Overall i think its really easy to dodge the effect by spreading out your units to other lanes. Havent seen anyone use that.
Just watched some Let's Play of this and it seems really cool. Thinking of buying it but I'm not sure if I can play it from SEA, anyone got any idea if it works?
Also forge is good. I have 3 of them and the card is cool...However, Energy still suffers from being the weakest and they didnt change that.
edit: IGN Hysteria. You can find me on scrollsfans.com and scrollsguides.com under the same name. I also idle in the WTB chat room as well as the 'Hysteria' room.
On July 07 2013 00:28 rob.au wrote: Facing energy is just not enjoyable at all...games take ages and never know when one of their guys is just going to kill an idol in 1 turn
yeah i think when facing energy you have to play the game really different from other match up. Idk, have been losing a lot to nrg though. My tips are to keep your mana+hand count higher and dont summon units unless you really need them.
It's fun but in retrospect I dunno if it was worth the price for what it is at the moment. Sure people argue that almost every deck type has representation in the top 100 but Growth is simply more complete with scaling and utility. This is compounded by the fact that in the limited scroll pool there are a ton of junk commons/uncommons that are invariably tossed out for the same homogenized set of uncommons/rares in almost every deck. I mean it's obviously still in beta but it just seems like a lot of design decisions with regards to Order and Energy could have been more easily pre remedied.
Maybe it's the worst but I imagine it still has a respectable win rate, and I see plenty of top players doing well with it. Part of the problem with it might be that all the games for energy go forever...pretty hard to grind the ladder like that.
On July 07 2013 11:50 RuskiPanda wrote: It's fun but in retrospect I dunno if it was worth the price for what it is at the moment. Sure people argue that almost every deck type has representation in the top 100 but Growth is simply more complete with scaling and utility. This is compounded by the fact that in the limited scroll pool there are a ton of junk commons/uncommons that are invariably tossed out for the same homogenized set of uncommons/rares in almost every deck. I mean it's obviously still in beta but it just seems like a lot of design decisions with regards to Order and Energy could have been more easily pre remedied.
I can't speak for Energy but as an Order player I quite like Order's design and the synergy between our units and spells. Though I get jealous when Growth players start playing my precious scrolls. You have enough of your own powerful scrolls, leave mine alone!
On July 07 2013 11:50 RuskiPanda wrote: It's fun but in retrospect I dunno if it was worth the price for what it is at the moment. Sure people argue that almost every deck type has representation in the top 100 but Growth is simply more complete with scaling and utility. This is compounded by the fact that in the limited scroll pool there are a ton of junk commons/uncommons that are invariably tossed out for the same homogenized set of uncommons/rares in almost every deck. I mean it's obviously still in beta but it just seems like a lot of design decisions with regards to Order and Energy could have been more easily pre remedied.
Order is really strong too, and does great vs mono-growth.
After I was thinking about it for a while I kinda spontaniously picked it up around 1 am this night. I have been playing since. Its so much fun. I am having a blast!
On July 04 2013 22:47 Crims0nSt4rz wrote: Just watched some Let's Play of this and it seems really cool. Thinking of buying it but I'm not sure if I can play it from SEA, anyone got any idea if it works?
The main concept of this guide is already adapted by most people who made it beyond 1700s from beginning. Balancing card power, resource count and field control are pretty much key in this game. Which one to favor more is depends on what you play and the match up.
My main concern (about the game) right now is how do i keep track of my progress?? MMR isnt too reliable due to draw luck that could cause win or lose. And in a long run, i switch decks day by day so such thing isnt as effective.
On July 07 2013 11:50 RuskiPanda wrote: It's fun but in retrospect I dunno if it was worth the price for what it is at the moment. Sure people argue that almost every deck type has representation in the top 100 but Growth is simply more complete with scaling and utility. This is compounded by the fact that in the limited scroll pool there are a ton of junk commons/uncommons that are invariably tossed out for the same homogenized set of uncommons/rares in almost every deck. I mean it's obviously still in beta but it just seems like a lot of design decisions with regards to Order and Energy could have been more easily pre remedied.
Growth is wholly reliant on a few key cards. and without drawing those cards they tend to lose every match against most other decks.
On July 07 2013 11:50 RuskiPanda wrote: It's fun but in retrospect I dunno if it was worth the price for what it is at the moment. Sure people argue that almost every deck type has representation in the top 100 but Growth is simply more complete with scaling and utility. This is compounded by the fact that in the limited scroll pool there are a ton of junk commons/uncommons that are invariably tossed out for the same homogenized set of uncommons/rares in almost every deck. I mean it's obviously still in beta but it just seems like a lot of design decisions with regards to Order and Energy could have been more easily pre remedied.
Growth is wholly reliant on a few key cards. and without drawing those cards they tend to lose every match against most other decks.
Not really, they have a lot of synergetic threats they can throw out at any point. And a pretty good ability to draw them.
The main concept of this guide is already adapted by most people who made it beyond 1700s from beginning. Balancing card power, resource count and field control are pretty much key in this game. Which one to favor more is depends on what you play and the match up.
My main concern (about the game) right now is how do i keep track of my progress?? MMR isnt too reliable due to draw luck that could cause win or lose. And in a long run, i switch decks day by day so such thing isnt as effective.
I still see order players make mistakes in the 1900's on basic issues like stuff i've mentioned, and also it ties in a lot with how you're supposed to run an order deck and build one properly - the same things apply to energy and growth
It teaches you a ton about tricks like playing potion of resistance as growth vs energy and growth, and how to play it and what to use it on. Simple card advantage analysis is very revealing and shows why for a long time it was used in the meta at the top 10
Yeah mistakes happen. Thats how people win and lose in most 1v1 game. Its just that in a card game, its a bit harder to justify mistake over card draw luck. I guess thats also why stocking up scrolls on hand feels a lot more safer even though stocking up resources feel a lot more threatening due to all the possibilities. Personally i prefer to stay a bit more higher in resources count before sacking for scrolls compare to the guide.
I am breaking into top 200 atm with a similar deck as the guide and it feels good. The only thing i dislike about this deck is how vulnerable the early stage is. For example a growth player could drop up to 2 +1G thingy with defenses before you even get your first creature on the table. Or they could place 2 well positioned brave before you could have your first attack.
I don't know much about your opponent, i havnt played much vs him
Your lategame strategy seems a little off. I think many 2k players actually do this too where they spend too much time around the 10/11 resource range saccing for resources when you should basically be relying on orders to get your resources by then
Also i think both players went a little tempo heavy early on
Lastly you missed an opportunity to win on turn 32 lol
you both spend a whoole lot of time lategame topdecking which means that you've both entered without a real strategy for what to do once you hit 14 resources + which is common in lategame order It means a few things like saccing speed early on and over-extending is a really big deal
the main problem is that you cant save up scrolls on your hand at that point. If somehow the enemy draw a general plus a speed, you are dead. We are talking about the ability to 1 turn instant win and i think non of us willing to take the risk of losing.
And yeah i was missing out a lot of opportunity as i get bored of how the game played out. Just feel like the game is no longer matter at that point :-/
I like this game but given that anything and everything luck based I just suck at I consistently get bad draws majority of the game (default order deck) and stopped playing cause I find order to weak/fragile unless I get nice draws which is rare to non existent I could go in and try to make an improved deck but it takes forever to grind to get booster packs when I just get bad draw after bad draw
On July 10 2013 23:42 Meatex wrote: I like this game but given that anything and everything luck based I just suck at I consistently get bad draws majority of the game (default order deck) and stopped playing cause I find order to weak/fragile unless I get nice draws which is rare to non existent I could go in and try to make an improved deck but it takes forever to grind to get booster packs when I just get bad draw after bad draw
You have to buy cards you need from players and if you can't beat players with your current deck then beat the trials/ai for gold. Not that I think it's the most appealing or fun solution, but it works.
I don't understand why there's so many issues with lag/dc with this game depending on where you are from. I didn't think a turn based card game would have these issues at all.
On July 10 2013 23:42 Meatex wrote: I like this game but given that anything and everything luck based I just suck at I consistently get bad draws majority of the game (default order deck) and stopped playing cause I find order to weak/fragile unless I get nice draws which is rare to non existent I could go in and try to make an improved deck but it takes forever to grind to get booster packs when I just get bad draw after bad draw
spend your gold on trading instead of buying random scrolls
Generally, you get less than 1000 worth of scrolls from buying a 10 pack, but even if you didn't, trading gets you the scrolls that you need exactly right there
Its usually really easy to get your hands on all the commons/uncommons (Save pother) that you need for order, and that will give you a fairly beefy sligh deck that can get you to 1600 and a ton of gold which you can use to buy your rares no problem
Yeah, getting started really sucks because of how stupidly bad the starter decks are. They are not even bad, they are pretty much unplayable. I think there are cards in the growth starter deck that i didn't play a single time. Each time i drew them, i sacked them. And half of the cards i did play were still really, really bad and i only played them because they were slightly better then other bad cards.
I ranted about that a few pages back, too. Once you get a single good deck, stuff gets a lot more fun because then you can just play and get additional good decks through that. But getting that first good deck is just annoying since you constantly feel like you have to fight not only the opponent but also your own deck, and the fact that you only get reasonable amounts of gold if you win makes this process absurdly annoying.
At the state of scrolls right now, no way in hell you should commit a lot of time into playing it. The game is uncompleted and should be treated as a fun/enjoyment kinda play. My advice is when you find yourself stuck, losing to luck based games etc... find a pros deck and copy exactly what they do for 3-4 games. Also dont start ranked games unless you have almost all the scrolls. Playing ranked games is nothing but putting pressure on yourself and make the game less enjoyable.
On July 13 2013 06:24 NB wrote: At the state of scrolls right now, no way in hell you should commit a lot of time into playing it. The game is uncompleted and should be treated as a fun/enjoyment kinda play. My advice is when you find yourself stuck, losing to luck based games etc... find a pros deck and copy exactly what they do for 3-4 games. Also dont start ranked games unless you have almost all the scrolls. Playing ranked games is nothing but putting pressure on yourself and make the game less enjoyable.
You don't need most of the scrolls to start playing ranked. You don't even need any new ones. You just need a little game sense. Fortunately there are tons of write-ups for it. You can get to 1500 with the starter decks, and that's not including the possibility of adding essential cards from your wins on the way there, let alone the easy trials. Your advice of collecting hundreds of scrolls before stepping into ranked is much less "fun."
On July 13 2013 06:24 NB wrote: At the state of scrolls right now, no way in hell you should commit a lot of time into playing it. The game is uncompleted and should be treated as a fun/enjoyment kinda play. My advice is when you find yourself stuck, losing to luck based games etc... find a pros deck and copy exactly what they do for 3-4 games. Also dont start ranked games unless you have almost all the scrolls. Playing ranked games is nothing but putting pressure on yourself and make the game less enjoyable.
You don't need most of the scrolls to start playing ranked. You don't even need any new ones. You just need a little game sense. Fortunately there are tons of write-ups for it. You can get to 1500 with the starter decks, and that's not including the possibility of adding essential cards from your wins on the way there, let alone the easy trials. Your advice of collecting hundreds of scrolls before stepping into ranked is much less "fun."
I agree
i made it to like, 1700 + using the energy precon and spending the first 5k gold i got (which you can get within the first day) on basic cards i needed - pot of resist, a couple of elders, cannon autos, all the uncommon uncommon etc.
Considering energy is the worst, gamesense is REALLY important
I've wrote up a few guides on gamesense and how to play on scrollsguide and stuff
Any tips on how to get over awful strings of bad luck draws? I can't seem to get any decent energy cards both when buying them or also in a match itself. I feel like my account is cursed >.<
On July 16 2013 14:23 AnomalySC2 wrote: Any tips on how to get over awful strings of bad luck draws? I can't seem to get any decent energy cards both when buying them or also in a match itself. I feel like my account is cursed >.<
1. Don't buy packs; save up and buy singles in the trade channels. You'll save gold in the long run, and conversely make more when you win more with the improved cards for your deck.
2. As for drawing them in a match, it's entirely about how well your deck itself is made. When you say you drew into bad luck, you really mean you drew a scroll that wasn't useful for your situation. You have to ask yourself: "How often is this scroll useful to me," or "Is there a better scroll I'd rather be drawing than this?" If there are scrolls in your deck that you're constantly drawing that feel like the product of bad luck, chances are there might be a better scroll to replace them with.
2 cont. A reliable way to know what scrolls you should be putting into a deck is to find a deck list from a top ranked player, copy it (or in your case go to the trade channel and start buying these cards), and familiarize yourself with any explanation the player offers behind why he chose the scrolls he did, and how he uses them vs different kinds of opponents.
Anyone happen to have an account I can use/share for this game. I'd rather try the game before I buy it and would be willing to adhere to any restrictions whatever you might have about me using your account :D
On July 16 2013 14:23 AnomalySC2 wrote: Any tips on how to get over awful strings of bad luck draws? I can't seem to get any decent energy cards both when buying them or also in a match itself. I feel like my account is cursed >.<
Very difficult to say without knowing what your deck is
Generally, there are 4 major archetypes right now that are "strong"
Bombard energy Lategame order Lategame growth Rush growth
(the last 3 being the strongest)
So you have to build your deck around that meta especially
http://www.scrollsguide.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=2239 This is an example guide for lategame order (i havnt finished with my OvG yet, also many of the concepts in there are more tempo heavy in OvG than card heavy) It's also got the deck i used to get 2k rating with (order) in there
How do you guys feel about crafting? I had a legitimate worry that although they will probably release new scrolls at a faster pace on release, that players would out-earn gold for scrolls faster than they could release them, which would in effect remove demand for scrolls and drive the supply through the roof, and subsequently bottom-out prices. Simultaneously, new players wouldn't enter the market at a quick enough pace to create a sufficient demand to keep prices from plummeting.
With crafting though, they've effectively nonupled (9x) the demand for individual scrolls -- permanently. I don't really care for crafting itself, but I do enjoy the comfort that my scrolls won't be worth 10% of their original value a year or two from now. I really like this idea, though I hope at the price of 27 cards for a playset, that they make the crafted scrolls a little more enticing to shell out for.
Puppet Solider structure 0/-/3 3decay- When Puppet Soldier dies, all units on the same row are killed.
You could just play this, splash growth for nutrition and kill 1-3 creatures at the cost of 2 cards and 1 growth.
That card is crazy all on its own too, forcing a 1 - 1 card trade + stops damage.
Pestis enchantment 3decay - Enchanted creature gains +1 Attack for each Rat you control. When enchanted creature kills another unit, summon a Mangy Rat on a random tile on your side.
Lumbering Muckhead creature 8/5/6 3 decay - Relentless; Lumbering Muckhead does not count down. When a creature dies, Lumbering Muckhead's Countdown is decreased by 1.
It's a moveable wall at the very least and has the extra niche of being able to attack if your opponent doesn't deal with it... for 3 decay.
Restless Bones spell 3 decay - All your Undead units gain +2 Attack until end of turn, and Countdown decreased by 1.
The "totem" structures all seem generally very strong as well but I would have to see them in action.
I'm glad they changed Damning Curse as it also used to be a 3 decay cost spell that destroyed target creature and dealt 3 damage to a random idol you control.
Overall I'm really liking decay still because it has a strong theme that it sticks to and the artwork looks great.
I loved this game, but it did not receive enough developer support, with it being under the guise of a beta, a pay-in beta. If they had taken more drastic action when the community was calling for changes they probably could have salvaged more people from leaving.
I really really like it. It's very much a beta though. Decks are very limited due to the lack of colorless mana or some alternative.
It's got tons of potential. Just lacking in content atm. Their scroll designs have gotten tangibly better the last couple months, but they still haven't taken full advantage of their Tile-based battlefield yet. Right now it's like a lighter version of the Might and Magic card game.
i came to believe the pretty animations they made for all their creatures are actually quite a problem now which hinders the introduction of new cards, as it simply costs a lot more time to do it for new ones compared to stuff like mtg online or hearthstone if they want to keep the quality consistent
I was wondering how Scrolls was going. Has its player base grown any in the last few months? Are they making lots of updates? There was a major patch in December... Seems like they want to change the game a lot? + Show Spoiler +
Now down to business: I'm here to beg for a free copy. Anyone who has the game willing to send me one? (=
Actually I really would like to hear an update from TL about how the game has been the last four months as well.
Just relogged back in. Was doing some more of the 'trials'. They added a few since I last played vs some Decay decks.
One though, was annoying as hell... standard game, save all the totems had 99 life. Obviously it took a LONG time. My nature deck doesn't seem to fare well vs Decay. They have quite a bit of nasty reactive stuff, and things like Infectious Blight can run rampant.
I don't know if I'm really getting back into it though, or more just fooled around for a bit. I suspect the later.
Scrolls has been officially released with a massive price cut ($5 USD for the game), a trial/demo and can now be played on tablets.
If anyone has been thinking of getting into Scrolls but was deterred by the low player base then now may be a good time to give it a shot. So far there has been about 1000 concurrent players during prime time and hopefully this number will grow with the cheaper price and wider availability.
I haven't played since decay was first released and I'm really loving the changes and new additions to the game. There are a lot more new scrolls with interesting mechanics for each colour, the "wild" (colourless) resource, spectator mode and balance changes. The art and style of the game continues to be quite unique and pleasant to look at.
You can also build whatever deck you please with a very minimal amount of time invested. That is not to say there is no satisfaction around growing your collection; it's just that you actually have the ability to trade cards and sell them to other players for gold. Gold is earned at a very respectable rate with a massive kickstart from familiarizing yourself with the game via tutorials/trials.
Like all card games it comes with a steep learning curve but once you climb that mountain you will find yourself with a deep, immersive strategy card game.
Just stumbled on this last week, and so far it's pretty sweet. I'm especially enjoying the Trials, they're so diverse and challenging and they're rewarding enough to beat that I haven't even felt compelled to get into the actual ranked matchmaking.
3.5 months later and I'm still finding ol' Scrolls to be really fun. It's fun to play alone because of all these clever little challenges you can do, and it's fun to play with other people, who are usually quite friendly. Wouldn't call it "dead" so much as "small" (~3.2k logging in per 24 hours) but hey, this is TeamLiquid, the bastion of (foreigner) Brood War (among other things), so who cares if it isn't drawing 1 million concurrent players. That said, does anyone on this site still play?
Also if anyone's interested in seeing more of the game, there's a little ESL-sponsored tournament for the game happening right now on Twitch. So yeah. Go Scrolls.
EPT
. Always good to know, I couldn't find info by googling this, I looked up scrolls open beta faq, as well as do you keep your scrolls and did not get a definite answer 
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