EPTBut i cant seem to find any, outside of Camelot unleashed and ESO (first person ftl)...
Best pvp MMO nowdays?
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Malpractice.248
United States734 Posts
But i cant seem to find any, outside of Camelot unleashed and ESO (first person ftl)... | ||
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Dirkinity
Germany409 Posts
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Infernal_dream
United States2359 Posts
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Xahhk
Canada540 Posts
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Xapti
Canada2473 Posts
Anyway, I heard GW2 is good, presumably for PvP ass well. For MMO PvP, I'm personally a fan of the more ruthless/open ones, as long as it's not too crazy (lose an equipped item). Namely I'm a fan of player-based anti-botting measures (PvP-based). Regular/competitive PvP works better in non-MMO scenarios like GW2, LoL, etc. | ||
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Impervious
Canada4198 Posts
But I absolutely love the pvp in Eve online. The interface is bad, but they are improving it slowly. The skill system is stupid, relying on you spending years playing the game in order to have the skill points necessary to properly fly your ships unless you buy characters, which requires you to know how to make a lot of money in-game in order to purchase said characters, or you can use real-life money to buy in-game currency to buy said characters, however, they are making it so that smaller, less skill-point intensive ships are becoming more useful, so you can jump into the fray a lot sooner and actually be able to accomplish something. Most of the time the pvp is rather dull, and you can get blue balled pretty often because the vast majority of people who play Eve are very risk averse, but if you're willing to take on stupid fights (fights like 3 or 4 on one, or 20 on 4, etc), and are willing to use your personal skill to make up for numerical and/or hardware disadvantages, you can get some crazy fun fights. Yes, you will lose a lot by taking on risky fights, but it is totally worth it for those good fights. Or, if you're feeling up for something more challenging, check out the market system in Eve. The market is basically 100% player driven, so it is essentially you vs everyone else if you want to try to make isk (in game currency). It is very, very intense stuff at higher levels. It's basically pvp, except using spreadsheets. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On February 20 2013 12:31 Infernal_dream wrote: The original Guild Wars. This. Yes, it's not a "real" MMO. Which is probably the reason the PvP is actually good. | ||
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Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
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Pufftrees
2449 Posts
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NbSky
Canada1023 Posts
On February 20 2013 12:31 Infernal_dream wrote: The original Guild Wars. Or you could try GW2 for a bit, get the hang of it, get bored and then come back in about a few months and have some real good PvP | ||
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tokicheese
Canada739 Posts
On February 20 2013 13:04 Dandel Ion wrote: This. Yes, it's not a "real" MMO. Which is probably the reason the PvP is actually good. This x1000000 That game had so much depth in the PvP in GvG/HA and now in GW2 it's just a shitty zerg fest.... You can't even change skills it's such a bland game... | ||
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accela
Greece314 Posts
Being always in a hostile environment, sustaining sudden attacks and, most importantly, the escalation that can occur because of a single death anywhere and by anyone that, as a chain reaction, can mobilize hundreds of people and in 15 minutes a quiet place turns into a massive battleground, that's what makes heart beat a little faster ^_^ | ||
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DPK
Canada487 Posts
On February 20 2013 13:30 tokicheese wrote: This x1000000 That game had so much depth in the PvP in GvG/HA and now in GW2 it's just a shitty zerg fest.... You can't even change skills it's such a bland game... Sure Gw1 have more "depth" when it comes to usable skills and customization, but PvP wise, most of the skills aren't/won't used at all. Out of like 100 skills a certain professions has, only like 20 will be a good use for PvP and out of those 20, a couple of them won't even work well together. Sure GW1 has some good PvP, but it has nothing on GW2 IMHO, especially when you consider how weird the character movement is in GW1 and how the melee classes have such a huge disadvantage because of the said weird character movement. Sure GW2 PvP is still pretty limited atm, but it will only get better and better. Also, GW1 will require you to grind the PvE or grind some random arenas to unlock the skills you want, you can also pay real money to unlock an X amount of skills if I remember well. In GW2, if you go straight into sPvP, you have access to everything right away. | ||
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BliptiX
Canada324 Posts
You could always study up on some good private servers if you want to relive vanilla/bc/swg. I had a great time playing on a vanilla wow server and currently waiting for a BC server in development. | ||
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Maxyim
430 Posts
Dark Souls has excellent PvP, granted it is not a MMO but the actual combat mechanic supersede them all. Of course, if you want hotbar spam, there is always the MOBA genre. I wonder if DAoC gets any action, could imagine it being quite fun with a core group of players who participate; still the only true realm vs realm game on the market. Oh, and Planetside 2; have not gotten into it myself but reviews seem very solid. | ||
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TOCHMY
Sweden1692 Posts
On February 20 2013 13:54 DPK wrote: Sure Gw1 have more "depth" when it comes to usable skills and customization, but PvP wise, most of the skills aren't/won't used at all. Out of like 100 skills a certain professions has, only like 20 will be a good use for PvP and out of those 20, a couple of them won't even work well together. Sure GW1 has some good PvP, but it has nothing on GW2 IMHO, especially when you consider how weird the character movement is in GW1 and how the melee classes have such a huge disadvantage because of the said weird character movement. Sure GW2 PvP is still pretty limited atm, but it will only get better and better. Also, GW1 will require you to grind the PvE or grind some random arenas to unlock the skills you want, you can also pay real money to unlock an X amount of skills if I remember well. In GW2, if you go straight into sPvP, you have access to everything right away. Have you even played GW1 pvp? GvG and HA? That shit is deeper than All Blue from One Piece. | ||
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Kommatiazo
United States579 Posts
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
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Capped
United Kingdom7236 Posts
On February 20 2013 17:27 Tobberoth wrote: I honestly think GW2 is your best bet right now, but at least personally, I find it very dumb. I never tried the battlegrounds, which apparently are quite fun, but World vs World is fucking ridiculous, you just strafe around massive zergfests spamming your skills. Theres alot more then that behind WvW. Organised guilds can easily roll unorganised zergs outnumbered 2 to 1. Strategy and tactics both have their place (defending / attacking locations and battle tactics like stacking for buffs.) Sure it looks a huge shitfest, but theres alot more going on if your organised. One tactic my guild uses for example, is to charge a zerg, having mesmers throw down veil (an invisibility skill) on us, an aoe dps group then breaks left while the rest break right (at this point, everyones invisible and the zerg are spamming aoe's / charging where we ran at them.) and then we flank right into them from the left and right, they've burnt all their cooldowns on an area we werent even on, their tanks have left all the squishies wide open to get fudged and you've just rolled a group. Thats just one tactic from an open field fight, Inside keeps and whatnot are completely different beasts. Dont even get into actually sieging a keep, theres all manner of different approaches (rams? catapults? trebuchets from a nearby keep, or even supply camp? walls or doors? attack from the east, west, north, south?) When your organised WvW gains alot more meaning, even when its zerg vs zerg, which it isnt always. Having a group of 5 run round "flipping" supply camps, killing yaks and taking out stragglers / defenders can have a big effect on the battlefield and be just as fun. Ive even taken keeps with a group of 5, ninja style. As for just spamming skills, then your definitely not being as effective as you can be. Positioning, buffs and timing all come into play. Lets take my main, a guardian. Greatsword / Staff. Specced for support. A short overview of what i do during a zerg vs zerg fight. + Show Spoiler + - i charge the lines with my greatsword, use a skill that yanks people towards me then do an aoe to dps, Ive just stopped whoever i grabbed DPS for a few seconds, damaged them and put them in a position to be aoe'd to shit all together. -Everytime i crit, i heal and give my allies a buff that makes them deal more damage, so i switch to staff which is an auto-attack aoe if i hit 5 people, thats five seperate chances to crit. - I'll use my "line of warding" which knocks people down if they try to cross it, so i can stop people getting at my squishies in the back, or i can sandwich in the people we're charging so we just smash straight through them. - Chuck down my 3rd skill on the ground nearby allies to give them a speed buff and damage any enemy that walks on it. -I have my 3 guardian mantras, which effect all allies and heals me for every ally it effects, so its best i use them when i run low on hp. Also my utility skills, that also apply aoe buffs and heal me in the process. -Buffs are situational, i have 2 skills that block the next attack (aegis) for all in range. So i can use it while charging in one after the other, to block the initial attacks, or further in to get the benefit of a heal and give my allies the advantage there. -Getting beat down by a bunch of people? I just use my elite skill and run round spamming (irony!) skill #1 on myself for an aoe heal which keeps me alive and heals anybody next to me, if they stop targetting me i can buff everyone with skills 2+3, blind my enemies with skill 4 and fully heal up to 5 allies and myself with skill 5. -If im in a huge aoe field, i can either dodge roll out of it or use my dedicated heal skill to block all attacks (2 second channel while moving, blocks everything) to get out of it. - During all this ive probably repeated the greatsword / staff combo's a few times and done some other situational things. This is all in the opening stages of a fight, you can expect a big fight to last between 2 - 20 minutes depending (attacking keeps etc tend to last a longer period) Your constantly avoiding skills and trying to best position yourself while attacking optimally, you really dont just "spam skills" theres a time to use everything to its maximum potential, spamming it is a waste. GW2 fo life. Best MMO there is currently imo. Also for the 5 vs 5 battlegrounds, there is alot of depth to the play there as well, before i started WvW, i was part of a 5v5 team, my role was simply bunker guardian, holding an objective, but its extremely skillbased and you need to work well as a team. I was usually put in the middle so i was relaying scout information to my team and holding off 2 people for long periods at a time untill somebody could assist me. The better you understand how to play, the better you are. I remember thinking i was the dogs bollocks only to get destroyed by another guardian, he kept me constantly out of the "ring" (point your supposed to protect) and took it for his team and i simply could not touch him the entire match. Using all your skills effectively in my case, knockbacks, blocks and "lines" (eh, they preventing them from crossing the line, bad descrption) and timing dodges to avoid skills are all vital. Theres a high skill cap around guild wars 2 that people dont realise. The only failing point is that the 5v5 doesnt really have a competitive ground atm (no ladders, match making, custom matches) the game itself is superb | ||
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Norada
China482 Posts
On February 20 2013 15:55 Maxyim wrote: Not really any that are out right now. For the future, look up WildStar and Camelot Unchained. Dark Souls has excellent PvP, granted it is not a MMO but the actual combat mechanic supersede them all. Of course, if you want hotbar spam, there is always the MOBA genre. I wonder if DAoC gets any action, could imagine it being quite fun with a core group of players who participate; still the only true realm vs realm game on the market. Oh, and Planetside 2; have not gotten into it myself but reviews seem very solid. uthgard for daoc is still around if you want original daoc experience. pretty fun, i used to play there awhile ago | ||
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ain
Germany786 Posts
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nayumi
Australia6499 Posts
Back then Lineage 2 was the real shit, though it might require too much grinding but hey that's part of the MMO life. | ||
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virpi
Germany3598 Posts
But getting into that game is like climbing the K2 with one leg tied to your right arm. | ||
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Roggay
Switzerland6320 Posts
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NEEDZMOAR
Sweden1277 Posts
and even if you ignore the combatsystem (instant attacks that arent instant because of stupid attackanimations etc) there are only battlegrounds and masspvping which turns everything into sluggish clusterfucks and massslaughtering... Id love an mmo with a decent combatsystem where instant spells actually are instant, and where one can compete in terms of 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 5v5 etc but not enormous 40v40 battles. edit: ps (yes I did love some of wow:wotlk and some of the tbc arena). | ||
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Klowney
Sweden277 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17238 Posts
If you'd like to see how good PvP looks like in GW with good commentary to boot you should visit GWGApok's channel @ YouTube. | ||
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Eviscerador
Spain286 Posts
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MotherOfRunes
Germany2862 Posts
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Roggay
Switzerland6320 Posts
On February 20 2013 19:31 MotherOfRunes wrote: best PvP still is DaoC and nothing else.somebody who says GW or something else is better than DaoC, is either blind or a super fanboy(and im saying this without being a DaoC fanboy) PvP is always a matter of taste anyway. | ||
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lpunatic
235 Posts
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TOCHMY
Sweden1692 Posts
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Divine-Sneaker
Denmark1225 Posts
For all the complaining we did as a community years back when they still actively balanced the game, they were actually very close to getting all their shit right. Closer than any other game I can think off. | ||
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
On February 20 2013 19:50 lpunatic wrote: I'll just chuck another voice in for Dark Souls. It's not strictly MMO, but combat is great. It's not a MMO, strictly or not. Not even close. | ||
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SpikeStarcraft
Germany2095 Posts
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LaNague
Germany9118 Posts
Only reason for mmo pvp is the persistancy, which is why daoc and eve are the best pvp mmos for me. | ||
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Connor987
United Kingdom103 Posts
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ain
Germany786 Posts
On February 20 2013 19:31 MotherOfRunes wrote: best PvP still is DaoC and nothing else.somebody who says GW or something else is better than DaoC, is either blind or a super fanboy(and im saying this without being a DaoC fanboy) Completely different types of PvP. If you had played both of these games you would know that you can't even compare them. | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On February 20 2013 20:13 LaNague wrote: i dont understand why people always look for "pvp mmo with skillbased combat where skill>items" when there are games like dota. Only reason for mmo pvp is the persistancy, which is why daoc and eve are the best pvp mmos for me. Because Dota is nothing like that. Your individual skill with your abilities in Dota has very little influence on how you do in a fight at any stage of the game, how you do is decided by your items/hero which in turn depend on your team and how the team has performed. You're not going to beat an anti-mage with decent items as crystal maiden just because you're good at crystal maiden. You have to take it down to basics on a whole new level to properly compare MMO PvP to Dota, MMO PvP is all about a group of people using a ton of abilities in various ways to do combat, MOBA is all about how you handle the various points in the game and develop your team composition (what items you get, what strategy you decide to use). It's not mutually exclusive at all. Someone who wants an MMO PvP game is probably not interested at all in farming CS. | ||
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Norada
China482 Posts
On February 20 2013 20:28 ain wrote: Completely different types of PvP. If you had played both of these games you would know that you can't even compare them. a lot of old good daoc players actually went to gw since they were both 8v8 in the competitive aspect, it's what i did :D both games super good. | ||
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MWY
Germany284 Posts
On February 20 2013 19:20 Manit0u wrote: EVE and GW definitely. Depends on what you like more (apart from the setting obviously). GW has the advantage strictly from PvP perspective as it allows you to create a max level character with good gear right off the bat (but you can only use this character in PvP, can't enter PvE areas with it) and then unlock more skills and items through PvP (or simulations with AI). It also has nice in-built observer mode which lets you watch ongoing tournaments and even some past ones if I remember correctly. If you'd like to see how good PvP looks like in GW with good commentary to boot you should visit GWGApok's channel @ YouTube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUSGjGnucQ4 Guild Wars GvG was good when koreans were playing (WM, EvIL), and the 2(3) expansions weren't out (especially the second). Until then, it was really awesome. Battling guilds all over the world, experimenting with so many different builds and so many tactical and strategical decisions were required as well as perfect teamwork. You didn't even need commentary to watch games because there was stuff happening all the time all over the place. After the expansions, the game became more and more stable (more choices of skills to use - but much less useable skills in terms of balance) and boring. Many good guys left, leaving lack of competition behind. That pretty much ended the fun/good times there. Just my opinion ofcourse. | ||
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konadora
Singapore66155 Posts
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gingerfluffmuff
Austria4570 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17238 Posts
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Gihi
384 Posts
When I say balance take it with a grain of salt, WoW shifts around a lot as well but it's still ahead of the curve by far. I hope by PvP u mean high level competitive play, I'm talking about arena at least above 2.2k. As for BGs, I'd still take WoW since it feels way more fluid. Rated BGs used to be semi fun apart from the forcing them but these days there's too many people who bought their rating and just ruin it for pugs. The most important part of any PvP on WoW is to make friends, and actually WANT to play with them. Real life friends can be a good idea, but not if they hold u back. I have about 3 real life friends who've played WoW consistently over the past 6 years, only 1 of them actually broke 2.2k together with me, the others are just dwindling around 1.5k wondering why they aren't getting better by doing nothing ^^ Also in general people who said they liked Vanilla and TBC PvP are just hypocrits who can't really be objective about a situation. Vanilla was one-shotting people and no lifing equaled OP gear equaled one-shotting equaled "skill". Tbc was a lot better, but it had WAY too much random game breaking things in PvP. WotLK was a LOT better than both, so is Cataclysm, and so is MoP. Almost 99% of the people that PvP play at a fairly low level, and for them it is undoubtedly more fun to just one-shot someone rather than actually out-thinking and out-playing your opponent. If u don't want to be able to distinguish yourself from the rest, WoW PvP probably isn't anything for u. Some people, like my irl friends, just don't have the drive to improve. Which is weird considering how much overall time they actually spent playing in the past years. Kind of wend off-topic ^^ TL;DR WoW still the best imo  | ||
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sabas123
Netherlands3122 Posts
On February 20 2013 20:14 Connor987 wrote: runescape 2007. rofl, yea i agree. also i wonder how good the PoE pvp will be. | ||
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Kickboxer
Slovenia1308 Posts
Don't listen to haters :p | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
Lunia. By far. Too bad it's not too well populated these days, but no MMO still comes even close to the PvP there. Example: Omnomnom~ As for group PvP, I doubt anything beats something like LoL or DotA so I feel it is a waste. | ||
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mau5mat
Northern Ireland461 Posts
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noD
2230 Posts
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ffswowsucks
Greece2294 Posts
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ExceeD_DreaM
Canada500 Posts
I heard good things about EVE online as well | ||
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MotherOfRunes
Germany2862 Posts
On February 20 2013 23:15 mau5mat wrote: It's not an MMO, but I would recommend Bloodline Champions, which is free to play highly underrated game. i love it | ||
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Knuty
Germany68 Posts
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Louis8k8
Canada285 Posts
GW2's 5v5 is a okay if you're super casual, otherwise a joke. 1v1 and GvG doesn't exist. WvW is nice but that's not conventional the 'PvP' some players may expect. It is technically player vs player but definitely not the small group vs group or solo 1v1. It's large scale territory war. Somewhat similar to PWI but that comparison might be a bit insulting. WvW is definitely something to experience. If you want action-based 5v5, play a MOBA. On February 20 2013 23:06 Shikyo wrote: For Duels: Lunia. By far. Too bad it's not too well populated these days, but no MMO still comes even close to the PvP there. What about Rusty Hearts? The game is bleh but the PvP seems on very similar with lunia based on your video. - Pardon me for slightly derailing from 'MMO' but are there any online PvP games like S4 and Gunz without an overwhelming number of botters/hackers? I only know those 2 and it's a shame both are unplayable without resorting to same tactics. - My personal fav for casual PvP is Ragnarok /biased as hell. | ||
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greggy
United Kingdom1483 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + and when I say wow I mean the tournament server or abyssal, not retail | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17238 Posts
On February 21 2013 03:07 Louis8k8 wrote: Pardon me for slightly derailing from 'MMO' but are there any online PvP games like S4 and Gunz without an overwhelming number of botters/hackers? I only know those 2 and it's a shame both are unplayable without resorting to same tactics. There's always Savage 2. You can either play as a regular soldier or as a commander (where you're practically playing RTS where your units are other players). 100% skill based: | ||
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Thor.Rush
Sweden702 Posts
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NbSky
Canada1023 Posts
On February 20 2013 21:01 MWY wrote: Guild Wars GvG was good when koreans were playing (WM, EvIL), and the 2(3) expansions weren't out (especially the second). Until then, it was really awesome. Battling guilds all over the world, experimenting with so many different builds and so many tactical and strategical decisions were required as well as perfect teamwork. You didn't even need commentary to watch games because there was stuff happening all the time all over the place. After the expansions, the game became more and more stable (more choices of skills to use - but much less useable skills in terms of balance) and boring. Many good guys left, leaving lack of competition behind. That pretty much ended the fun/good times there. Just my opinion ofcourse. Amen. I couldn't agree more, being part of two top 10 GvG in the world guilds (DoP + EvIL) GW1 was great before all these random expansions game out, the first few seasons were amazing and so much fun, it's a shame that people who picked up late on GW and had success thought they were amazing when everyone good had left, there were so many strategies, ranger spirit build spike to ele spike to healing balls to necro armies, was so much fun, I basically had no life when that game came out haha. Youtube some videos of the good clans from back in the day, The Last Pride [EvIL] Warmachine [WM] Idiot Savants [iQ] | ||
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Rostam
United States2552 Posts
http://www.swgemu.com | ||
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Gihi
384 Posts
On February 20 2013 23:15 mau5mat wrote: It's not an MMO, but I would recommend Bloodline Champions, which is free to play Used to love it untill they introduced the gemming and talents etc! I even donated before, then they just made new people have shittier stats than u in the game and made it unnecessary complex with the stats etc imo. Kind of miss it ^^ | ||
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AnomalySC2
United States2073 Posts
On February 20 2013 23:17 noD wrote: Since u said nowadays I will go with GW2, if it was ever I would say Lineage 2 ... L2 is still alive and kicking, so I'm not sure what you mean. It's free to play now as well. For those that never tried it, it's a hardcore korean grinder with a truly awesome open world pvp system. I will probably get flamed for saying this, but I highly recommend botting in that game. At least until you hit awakening (lvl 86). It not only doesn't try to sugar coat the grind (leveling in that game consists of simply killing mobs in different "hunting zones" over and over), it straight up fully embraces it. I'd also recommend Aion, and I also have my eyes on Blade & Soul. Korea really knows how to make games with competitive potential. | ||
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Zandar
Netherlands1541 Posts
Just wish they were faster with adding more open world pvp, but at least it can be found often on the new Ilum these days. | ||
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Shelke14
Canada6655 Posts
I'm hurt nobody is saying Ultima Online  . That game was all around the best pvp/ group pvp. | ||
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
Sadly, GW2's mechanics are just not as deep as WoW, and no game has been able to replicate that smooth, beautiful organic movement and combat system. Makes me a sad panda that WoW never adopted the MOBA/GW2 "jump in to max level pvp" style, and instead has a billion entry barriers to actually pvping. Stupid. | ||
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AnomalySC2
United States2073 Posts
On February 21 2013 04:24 Shelke14 wrote: Aion was pretty cool, I actually enjoyed that game quite a bit. Of course, me being a lazy piece of shit the game lost me after about level 36 and it taking SOOO long to level. I'm hurt nobody is saying Ultima Online . That game was all around the best pvp/ group pvp. Yup, Aion is in the same boat as L2 for me. Can't level without a bot heh. The dungeons are pretty fun but the real draw is the pvp. On February 21 2013 04:18 Zandar wrote: It's not the cool thing to say, but I returned to Swtor and quite enjoy the warzones pvp again Just wish they were faster with adding more open world pvp, but at least it can be found often on the new Ilum these days. swtor had some really fun pvp. The pacing was crisp and the classes weren't overly complicated or bogged down by a gigantic list of skills you needed to bind. It fit nicely between WoW's huge number of skills you need to bind, and say GW2 which has an extremely small amount of abilities. The thing that killed swtor pvp for me was...just not enough content. No ranked ladder, not enough maps, no real focus on fleshing the pvp out aside from just having really good core gameplay. Not to mention ilum was literally broken when I played. People just traded objectives every day, no one actually fought each other lol. | ||
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Desmoden
Germany45 Posts
On February 21 2013 04:26 Crownlol wrote: If there was a game that could simulate BC/WotLK 3v3 arena/bg's without having to level and gear for 6 months, I'd gladly buy it for $60. It exists: http://arena-tournament.com/ | ||
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Vore210
Ireland256 Posts
It's also a beautiful game with a huge progression path and I've found it ridiculously addictive. Skill at FPS will help you hugely in it. Did I mention its free to play and free to download? No costs unless you want there to be. ![[image loading]](http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&sa=X&tbm=isch&tbnid=PTNIsY9DbumVKM:&imgrefurl=http://n4g.com/news/1126316/new-planetside-2-screenshots&docid=0I3zxiTBhKuCIM&imgurl=http://www.abload.de/img/planetside2-2012-11-25mera.jpg&w=1920&h=1080&ei=C0IlUanjDMO5hAeY6YCICg&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,i:85&iact=rc&dur=3602&sig=100357543366610214121&page=1&tbnh=168&tbnw=300&start=0&ndsp=30&tx=184&ty=257&biw=1920&bih=955) | ||
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DPK
Canada487 Posts
On February 20 2013 17:13 TOCHMY wrote: Have you even played GW1 pvp? GvG and HA? That shit is deeper than All Blue from One Piece. Ok I haven't played the PvP for a huge amount of time and also didn't play GW1 at the beginning, but from what I've seen, GW1 only has more depth to it when it comes to skills and customization like I've said. I'm also pretty sure that out of the hundred skills you can use, only the minority of them will be used in competitive PvP, because sure you can do some "weird" build if you want, but im pretty sure it wont be optimal and you won't use the said "weird" build when you play against another good team. Sure GW1 have GvG and HA but we might see a lot more than those 2 modes in GW2. I would love to hear what makes GW1 more deep, aside from the number of skills to choose from, than GW2 because IMO, its the only thing that is deep in GW1. And when you realize that most of the skills aren't really useful or have a similar skill but better, the skill customization takes a huge blow. At least, that's what I've figured when I played. | ||
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ItsFunToLose
United States776 Posts
On February 21 2013 06:40 Vore210 wrote: Planetside 2 is amazing. Free to play, huge open world (2000 people possible per continent, 3 continents), FPS with tanks, fighter jets, bases with huge walls and defenses to cap. You can join large outfits (guilds), play in platoons (raids of 48 people) and squads (groups of 12). It's also a beautiful game with a huge progression path and I've found it ridiculously addictive. Skill at FPS will help you hugely in it. Did I mention its free to play and free to download? No costs unless you want there to be. can i just second this? I don't even like first person shooter games games and I've managed to log upwards of 100 hours so far into this game. | ||
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Spyridon
United States997 Posts
GW2 has potential, but it's honestly not there yet. GW2 lacks the features to have decent PvP, it's far less featured than GW1. The structured PvP only has a single game mode (conquest) which gets old very fast, limits the amount of viable builds for each class. Every time I play GW2, even though the GW2 combat system is an improvement, it makes me miss GW1 PvP because I really wish you could have fights where you have to actually work together to KILL the enemy and prove who the better fighters are. If your trying to win in GW2's conquest mode you spend just as much time roaming or avoiding the outnumbered fights as you do fighting... so lame. GW2's biggest problem though is the lack of PvP player base. Even with the (just implemented) queue improvements you still fight the same people over and over again. They tried buiding the PvP from the top-down with highly competitive environments first, instead of from the ground up. The matchmaking still needs work, more modes are in dire need, they need a SOLO QUEUE which it baffles as to why they havent added it (they believe it will split the player base even more and make population problems, they don't realize solo queue will bring in so many more PvP players). GW2's skill/trait system is actually a lot better than it seems, it just gets overshadowed by the fact that roamers or bunkers are 90% of the time the ideal specs for your class. There's much less variation than if it was a team-style deathmatch that GW1 offered. Also progression in GW2 needs work, GW1 kept people playing until they got addicted with their unlock system. GW2's gear unlocks aren't even close to that type of feeling, especially when a few tournament tokens and you get nicer looking gear than the rank gear anyway. Hotjoin PvP is the worst idea I've heard of in an MMO ever. It tries to copy FPS's method of joining casually to play, but it discourages teamwork. People just try to grind pointlessly and get bored, never learning how to PvP properly, never working with their team. I'll never know why they didnt keep their amazing progression GW1 had from random arenas - competitive arenas - HoH - GvG.... The game needs lots of work, but on the plus side they have patched it for free reguarly. It just really makes me sad. It has so much potential and they should have emulated the modes from GW1 and built upon it, instead of putting all their eggs in 1 basket with their Conquest mode and trying to make it an "highly competitive esport" before simple features like matchmaking, solo queue, rankings, and giving up all the great things about GW1 PvP.... But the combat itself is fun... Just sucks that only 1 mode ruins it. Conquest is great as an OPTION, but not as the ONLY option... On February 21 2013 07:09 DPK wrote: Ok I haven't played the PvP for a huge amount of time and also didn't play GW1 at the beginning, but from what I've seen, GW1 only has more depth to it when it comes to skills and customization like I've said. I'm also pretty sure that out of the hundred skills you can use, only the minority of them will be used in competitive PvP, because sure you can do some "weird" build if you want, but im pretty sure it wont be optimal and you won't use the said "weird" build when you play against another good team. Sure GW1 have GvG and HA but we might see a lot more than those 2 modes in GW2. I would love to hear what makes GW1 more deep, aside from the number of skills to choose from, than GW2 because IMO, its the only thing that is deep in GW1. And when you realize that most of the skills aren't really useful or have a similar skill but better, the skill customization takes a huge blow. At least, that's what I've figured when I played. It's just the modes man. Instead of stupid hotjoin, you started in random arenas. This put you in a match with 3 other players who were queueing solo. This means you typically had a "well rounded" build since you never knew what class/specs your partners will be, making different builds viable than otherwise. Then the match itself was a fight to the death. If you win, you stay with your team and fight another team. If you lose, you go back to the lobby zone. You got rewarded points to buy new skills/better stats for gear, not just gear looks. It didn't take long to max out a character, so it was still skill-based. But you unlocked new options for your characters, which gave incentive to keep playing and experimenting with the new unlocks. It also tracked consecutive wins. If you managed to get to 10 consecutive wins with your random team, it moved you to the Competitive arenas. Competitive arenas were the premade-only queue. It used to be so fun, and social, to find one of those random teams that was awesome and you manage to get in to competitive arenas and get a 5+ streak going in there. I've made so many friends in the game like that, it's much more social than the free tournaments are, since you spend so much time getting that streak. Speaking of streaks, some of my best memories were getting like 35+ win streaks in competitive arenas. It was very rewarding to whoop everyones ass for such a long streak, when they were queueing all with premades. This system was so much better than hotjoin/free/paid tournaments. It effectively solved the solo queue/premade problem, and led to much better social play, much better teamwork, had soooo many players, and queues were basically instant. Then you progressed on to Hall of Heroes. This arena had 3 different modes it ran through. One was king of the hill style, one was capture the flag style, and one was conquest style similar to GW2 PvP. If you won here it posted your win to the entire server, making it pretty rewarding, and it had a "favor of the gods" system that kept the different world regions (us, eu, asia) competitive against each other. If you won enough matches you gained favor for your entire region, and lets say US had favor, then US would be able to enter 2 special zones/dungeons, that were the highest level areas in the game for a period of time. Then you progressed in to GvG, which was the most highly compeitive form of PvP. It had ladder rankings for every guild, and matchmaking. It was pretty strategic, with the goal to actually kill the enemy guild lord. There was also a morale system, with a flag that if you hold it for enough time gives your team and morale boost and guild lord a HP boost. These modes had a clear progression to get new players playing casually, make friends, start getting more and more competitive, offered a variety of modes, worked great for solo players, coordinated 4 man teams, or coordinated entire guilds. Had something for any type of player whether you were casual or pro. The fact that it had so many modes also made a huge variety of useful builds. That's why it's so baffling as to why GW2 dropped this system and tried to replace it with Hotjoing/Free/Paid tournaments. The new GW2 method is much more limiting, much less welcoming to casuals, much less social, much less competitive, lacking modes, lacking features. They already had a successful blueprint, but didn't use it, and alienated a lot of the GW1 PvP players (who would have made the PvP of the game hugely successful if it played anything like a Guild Wars game). | ||
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canucks12
Canada812 Posts
WoW was also fun, mostly in TBC, but there were other times as well. Rated battlegrounds was a cool idea, until my team hit half hour long que times at high ranks. Not cool to have to wait half an hour to win 3-5 points and sometimes auto lose 20 for spawning on horde side in Gilneas. My team stopped playing at around 2550 simply because of the time dedication required to have 10 specific members on only to wait. | ||
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zbedlam
Australia549 Posts
On February 20 2013 13:54 DPK wrote: Sure Gw1 have more "depth" when it comes to usable skills and customization, but PvP wise, most of the skills aren't/won't used at all. Out of like 100 skills a certain professions has, only like 20 will be a good use for PvP and out of those 20, a couple of them won't even work well together. Sure GW1 has some good PvP, but it has nothing on GW2 IMHO, especially when you consider how weird the character movement is in GW1 and how the melee classes have such a huge disadvantage because of the said weird character movement. Sure GW2 PvP is still pretty limited atm, but it will only get better and better. Also, GW1 will require you to grind the PvE or grind some random arenas to unlock the skills you want, you can also pay real money to unlock an X amount of skills if I remember well. In GW2, if you go straight into sPvP, you have access to everything right away. GW2 PvP is absolute garbage, it is far worse than WoW PvP and that's a horrifying comparison for a game that was being pushed as a potential esport and WvW being compared to RvR. GW1 PvP was deep because it wasn't typical MMO PvP. The good PvP MMO's didn't/don't have particularly deep combat (DAoC,UO,SB,EVE etc) but their appeal is the violent social aspect. But saying that, the combat had to be complex enough to be appealing and have variety, if it was 100% zerg fest trash talking etc would never be taken seriously. | ||
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NukeD
Croatia1612 Posts
On February 21 2013 04:26 Crownlol wrote: If there was a game that could simulate BC/WotLK 3v3 arena/bg's without having to level and gear for 6 months, I'd gladly buy it for $60. Not exactly what you pointed out but you might wanna check out Forge. | ||
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Dbars
United States273 Posts
On February 20 2013 13:08 Pufftrees wrote: EvE online, see TL thread! sure if you like playing with elitist dick heads. I tryed the TL corp a while ago and was the worse experience of my gaming life. Wouldn't suggest it to anyone. | ||
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Maxyim
430 Posts
On February 21 2013 10:12 Dbars wrote: sure if you like playing with elitist dick heads. I tryed the TL corp a while ago and was the worse experience of my gaming life. Wouldn't suggest it to anyone. Thanks for the feedback, but I am not quite sure if you are going about it in the proper manner, particularly in light of the Ten Commandments. Perhaps you could expound on the specific issues that you encountered? | ||
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Infernal_dream
United States2359 Posts
On February 21 2013 10:29 Maxyim wrote: Thanks for the feedback, but I am not quite sure if you are going about it in the proper manner, particularly in light of the Ten Commandments. Perhaps you could expound on the specific issues that you encountered? Wouldn't really do it in this thread though. | ||
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ParanoiaDHerO
United States183 Posts
On February 21 2013 10:29 Maxyim wrote: Thanks for the feedback, but I am not quite sure if you are going about it in the proper manner, particularly in light of the Ten Commandments. Perhaps you could expound on the specific issues that you encountered? He hit it pretty much on the head.. "Elitist" is an understatement for the TL corp. | ||
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Impervious
Canada4198 Posts
On February 21 2013 10:12 Dbars wrote: sure if you like playing with elitist dick heads. I tryed the TL corp a while ago and was the worse experience of my gaming life. Wouldn't suggest it to anyone. I take it that you were very unsatisfied with our teaching style then? I think you should take it up with a fine gentleman who goes by "VoV". I'm sure he'll be happy to help you deal with any misunderstandings after you explain the situation to him. | ||
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Eviscerador
Spain286 Posts
On February 21 2013 10:12 Dbars wrote: sure if you like playing with elitist dick heads. I tryed the TL corp a while ago and was the worse experience of my gaming life. Wouldn't suggest it to anyone. That is just because your EvE character is supposed to be an elitist dickhead, who doesn't care about nothing because he is just inmortal and above mere mortals etiquette and problems. And because playing EvE is for the chosen ones. WoW is that way => Can I haz your stuff?? | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10121 Posts
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
On February 21 2013 10:10 NukeD wrote: Not exactly what you pointed out but you might wanna check out Forge. Tried Forge- it was more like a fantasy-themed Unreal Tournament than anything else. It was honestly kind of neat, but nothing close to WoW in depth and mechanics. | ||
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
On February 21 2013 19:40 Godwrath wrote: Meh, lot of people argueing about best PvP with just "modes" of pvp's, and not their skill ceiling. GW (1 and 2) has the lowest skill ceiling i had ever seen on a mmo, most of the "skill" in that game is strategic, comps, etc. The most rewarding PvP games thinking straight (not nostalgic) would be darkfall and age of conan, both of them because had a way higher skill ceiling than most point and click and you could do amazing stuff like 3/4 vs 1, just because you were awesome. Too bad age of conan's caster didn't need to aim tho. I didn't try TERA but my guess would be that it has potential, but korean is just not my sauce. Don't bother with TERA- there's something just super Korean about it. The class balance is way off, and combat is slow and kind of silly. The fast class with giant swords (Slayers) are just shockingly overpowered, partially because they have gapclosers and abilities that swing in large arcs, while the axe class has abilities that strike straight down. It was a neat concept, but moves too slow and clunky- it's like 3rd person Skyrim. | ||
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Figgy
Canada1788 Posts
Roll on a server than is 30% or less your faction, 70% opponents and you'll find all the world PvP you EVER need. Also, the Arena and RBG system is amazing. The only problem with WoW is that you really have to dedicate quite a bit of time on it if you want to play at a competitive level. | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4725 Posts
Single pvp? Well thats very dependant on personal taste, one likes this the other likes that....many people say WoW but that game is so boriiiiing for anyone that played L2 before. I dont know. If You really want so much 1v1 skill play fighting games. MMO stands for Massive MO, well pvp WoW isnt massive, in Lienage is. | ||
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danl9rm
United States3111 Posts
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nennx
United States310 Posts
On February 20 2013 18:58 Roggay wrote: If you liked vanilla WoW, you can still try it on private servers (its free too). The feenix server is pretty much bug free at this point I think and pretty good ( search for wow-one ). Im playing on their tbc 2.4.3 server and its pretty good and im having a ton of fun with the pvp (I really liked tbc arenas). is today opposite day?> | ||
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AnomalySC2
United States2073 Posts
I really wish someone would take that core gameplay concept and put a triple A budget into it. | ||
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danl9rm
United States3111 Posts
On February 22 2013 00:36 AnomalySC2 wrote: Also, this game is somewhat of a guilty pleasure but check out Dungeon Fighter Online. Highly skill based pvp that plays out just as much like a Street Fighteresque game than it does an mmo. Still, there is a good reason it's wildly popular in Korea, they know their competitive games. I really wish someone would take that core gameplay concept and put a triple A budget into it. Does Dungeon Fighter Online have that same annoying pay-to-win foundation? If not, it sounds intriguing. | ||
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AnomalySC2
United States2073 Posts
On February 22 2013 01:08 danl9rm wrote: Does Dungeon Fighter Online have that same annoying pay-to-win foundation? If not, it sounds intriguing. There is a small pay to win aspect on the PvE side of the game (they have to make money somehow), but the PvP ladder doesn't allow you to bring in pve or avatar gear (they let you choose from set pieces of gear, much like GW2 does). However, there is a separate PvP channel where you CAN bring in overpowered PvE gear if you choose to do so. High level PvP is insanely fast paced, just look up some korean vids on youtube. It might not be as impressive if you haven't actually played it yourself, but you should still get the general idea. | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On February 22 2013 00:24 danl9rm wrote: Anyone that played the original Ultima Online will say that. Anyone that didn't, will say something else. In my opinion, there's never really been a good pvp mmo since UO. It's a shame, but I don't even think it's possible anymore. I haven't played UO since it was new, more or less, but... what? How can you possibly justify this opinion? | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4725 Posts
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danl9rm
United States3111 Posts
You guys played during that time? Around 1999-'02? You guys crazy. | ||
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AnomalySC2
United States2073 Posts
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On February 22 2013 01:44 danl9rm wrote: I'm not talking about all the new iterations. I don't even know anything about those. I'm talking around T2A (The 2nd Age) where most of the bugs were fixed and the new graphics and stuff were done. You guys played during that time? Around 1999-'02? You guys crazy. I played mainly during Renaissance and I have no memory of competitive PvP. Sure, the world PvP was very free and cool in that sense, but it obviously had ridiculously dated PvP mechanics. | ||
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Irre
United States646 Posts
Gw2 seems the best currently..WoW is just god awful now and everything else is basically a pure rip off. Darkfall is interesting but probably way too small a community to really have a great PVP MMO.... and probably not very clean/polished. Any game that had potential good PVP basically got their populations killed by WoW after the first few months so there aren't very many solid options. Maybe some of the newer games like planetside 2? | ||
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
On February 22 2013 03:16 Irre wrote: If you didn't play UO pre- Age of Shadows..(EA). you will never understand how amazing that game was and how there will never be another like it for many reasons. Gw2 seems the best currently..WoW is just god awful now and everything else is basically a pure rip off. Darkfall is interesting but probably way too small a community to really have a great PVP MMO.... and probably not very clean/polished. Any game that had potential good PVP basically got their populations killed by WoW after the first few months so there aren't very many solid options. Maybe some of the newer games like planetside 2? I feel the same way about SWG before Sony ruined it. Player housing? Guild cities? The most in-depth crafting system ever? Holochrons? The PvP sucked, but man was that a great MMO. Well, actually the world PvP was possibly the best of any game ever, because of the Guild War and Guild City mechanics. Just imagine how chaotic things were when your carefully built Guild city (which, when large enough, had npc's, vendors, transportation, cantinas, a house for every player, etc) came under attack by your rival guild! Shit was nuts. | ||
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danl9rm
United States3111 Posts
On February 22 2013 03:16 Irre wrote: If you didn't play UO pre- Age of Shadows..(EA). you will never understand how amazing that game was and how there will never be another like it for many reasons. Gw2 seems the best currently..WoW is just god awful now and everything else is basically a pure rip off. Darkfall is interesting but probably way too small a community to really have a great PVP MMO.... and probably not very clean/polished. Any game that had potential good PVP basically got their populations killed by WoW after the first few months so there aren't very many solid options. Maybe some of the newer games like planetside 2? Oh ya, I forgot about Darkfall. I played that on release and did enjoy it for a while, even though the bugs were many. Very many. And even when there wasn't a bug, there were so many questionable decisions. But whatever, I still enjoyed it. And then, the hackers came. Speed hacks like you wouldn't believe. On a horse? He's on foot? Wait, he's chasing you down anyway and his character is spinning yurnero/d2 barbarian style whirlwind? Gg. Killed the game. Was fun while it lasted, but they just made too many mistakes, and their network code couldn't handle it either. | ||
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GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
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amazingxkcd
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
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AnomalySC2
United States2073 Posts
On February 22 2013 05:26 Redox wrote: Yeah I know hating on WoW is popular, but there is still nothing that comes close to it. For raiding, sure. For PvP there are plenty of better options out there. At least half the suggestions in this thread take more skill and are more enjoyable than Arenas/BGs. | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On February 22 2013 05:28 AnomalySC2 wrote: For raiding, sure. For PvP there are plenty of better options out there. At least half the suggestions in this thread take more skill and are more enjoyable than Arenas/BGs. I played a lot of MMO PvPs and I still feel like high level wow arenas was the best pvp experience I've had. Most other MMO don't offer a small roster MMO PvP experience. I liked the 3v3 more than the RvR or battlegrounds experience of other games. But Arenas right now in Pandathing ? Meeeh... Best bet is Guild wars imo. Problem is that GW1 is almost dead, and GW2 has less PvP feature than Dora online. | ||
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ParanoiaDHerO
United States183 Posts
On February 22 2013 05:26 Redox wrote: Yeah I know hating on WoW is popular, but there is still nothing that comes close to it. I agree with this.. Sipping hatorade and bashing WoW seems to be in style, but the game is legit PvP, far greater than most of the games mentioned. There is something to be said for the smoothness of the way a game plays, and no one has ever came close to WoW in that regard. | ||
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DPK
Canada487 Posts
On February 21 2013 19:40 Godwrath wrote: Meh, lot of people argueing about best PvP with just "modes" of pvp's, and not their skill ceiling. GW (1 and 2) has the lowest skill ceiling i had ever seen on a mmo, most of the "skill" in that game is strategic, comps, etc. The most rewarding PvP games thinking straight (not nostalgic) would be darkfall and age of conan, both of them because had a way higher skill ceiling than most point and click and you could do amazing stuff like 3/4 vs 1, just because you were awesome. Too bad age of conan's caster didn't need to aim tho. I didn't try TERA but my guess would be that it has potential, but korean is just not my sauce. Darkfall a game with higher skill ceiling?? LOL comon this game is a real joke. Macro combat with some skills like convert mana to stamina or stamina to mana, people casting a certain skill at their feet to pop in the air 10 feet to flee away from combat easily and some other really stupid stuff like hitboxes not being the same on every races. If this is a high skill ceiling for you, then I doubt you ever played a real high skill ceiling game. And don't tell me swing your sword to another guy is more hard to do than a tab target game because its not really. On February 21 2013 23:38 Figgy wrote: WoW is still by far the best pvp game. Nothing else is really close atm, and I've played A LOT of MMOs. Roll on a server than is 30% or less your faction, 70% opponents and you'll find all the world PvP you EVER need. Also, the Arena and RBG system is amazing. The only problem with WoW is that you really have to dedicate quite a bit of time on it if you want to play at a competitive level. WoW had some good PvP, now its just a big joke. Fights last about 30mins (3v3), people get heal from 100hp to full in 1 sec, way too much mana that can be replenish in a small time frame (don't remember how quickly exactly) so you don't even need to watch it carefully, if you don't play the good classes you won't get into competitive PvP, too much CC IMO, maps are the same since forever and I never really liked their arena maps. It's okay if you like it, but its far far far from being a decent PvP game now. You also need to grind to max level then grind for gear to have a "good" PvP experience. On February 22 2013 05:16 amazingxkcd wrote: I'll be taking a look at that Savage 2 game since it looks interesting. The game is pretty good, the only thing is that its P2W. If you play as a free player, you will find out quickly that its gets really annoying that someone the same level has you can 1-2 shot you every single time because of the persistent items. That's what made me quit. Also the game doesn't have a lot of players. Only like 1 server with a decent number of players and another with a small number. | ||
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dae
Canada1600 Posts
On February 22 2013 07:00 DPK wrote: Darkfall a game with higher skill ceiling?? LOL comon this game is a real joke. Macro combat with some skills like convert mana to stamina or stamina to mana, people casting a certain skill at their feet to pop in the air 10 feet to flee away from combat easily and some other really stupid stuff like hitboxes not being the same on every races. If this is a high skill ceiling for you, then I doubt you ever played a real high skill ceiling game. And don't tell me swing your sword to another guy is more hard to do than a tab target game because its not really. WoW had some good PvP, now its just a big joke. Fights last about 30mins (3v3), people get heal from 100hp to full in 1 sec, way too much mana that can be replenish in a small time frame (don't remember how quickly exactly) so you don't even need to watch it carefully, if you don't play the good classes you won't get into competitive PvP, too much CC IMO, maps are the same since forever and I never really liked their arena maps. It's okay if you like it, but its far far far from being a decent PvP game now. You also need to grind to max level then grind for gear to have a "good" PvP experience. The game is pretty good, the only thing is that its P2W. If you play as a free player, you will find out quickly that its gets really annoying that someone the same level has you can 1-2 shot you every single time because of the persistent items. That's what made me quit. Also the game doesn't have a lot of players. Only like 1 server with a decent number of players and another with a small number. WoW 3v3 was one of my favorite PvP experiences of every game (WotLK mostly), but just the gear grind and pve gear made it kinda really annoying. Main problem was loooong que times at top tier play, and gear grind.. bg grind every season, people with new pve gear always getting free rating, way easier to get high ratings at start of season. The system had its major flaws but the gameplay itself was fun.' Edit: Screw triple dps. | ||
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zbedlam
Australia549 Posts
@WoW, it has the highest personal skill ceiling out of all MMO's on the market, at least last time I checked which was pre wotlk, and its not like MMO's have been made any harder since then. Thanks to WoW almost every MMO release has more hand holding than a daycare center, which is why there aren't many PvP MMO's on the market. In short, arena type PvP is better done by other genres, if you want a PvP MMO you have to allow players to play fight eachother in a non instanced environment. And not many companies are willing to do that these days because if they screw it up their game is going to crash and burn. | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On February 22 2013 07:06 dae wrote: WoW 3v3 was one of my favorite PvP experiences of every game (WotLK mostly), but just the gear grind and pve gear made it kinda really annoying. Main problem was loooong que times at top tier play, and gear grind.. bg grind every season, people with new pve gear always getting free rating, way easier to get high ratings at start of season. The system had its major flaws but the gameplay itself was fun.' Edit: Screw triple dps. I would have given anything to have tournaments servers up all the time. Basicly GW2 PvP requierement ( which is nothing, log on, go to PvP area, get all the gear, and start PvP'ing ) with WoW pvp gameplay. But yeah, Arenas seems to have gone to shit after WotLK anyway. People can't die anymore I heard. | ||
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DPK
Canada487 Posts
On February 22 2013 07:14 zbedlam wrote: @WoW, it has the highest personal skill ceiling out of all MMO's on the market, at least last time I checked which was pre wotlk, and its not like MMO's have been made any harder since then. Thanks to WoW almost every MMO release has more hand holding than a daycare center, which is why there aren't many PvP MMO's on the market. WoW doesn't have the highest personal skill ceiling... Its not any different than most MMO. Especially when you consider people using macro that bind everything they need on 4 hotkeys. Having macro in any games dumb down the skill ceiling a huge amount IMO. Everyone can spam 4 abilities with macros, not everyone can hit the right key at the right time while having 30 different skills/abilities. Get rid of the macro in WoW and I would maybe agree with you in this one. Also now, WoW PvP is the worst I've seen in a while, the game was wayyyy better before. | ||
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Arisen
United States2382 Posts
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On February 22 2013 07:38 DPK wrote: WoW doesn't have the highest personal skill ceiling... Its not any different than most MMO. Especially when you consider people using macro that bind everything they need on 4 hotkeys. Having macro in any games dumb down the skill ceiling a huge amount IMO. Everyone can spam 4 abilities with macros, not everyone can hit the right key at the right time while having 30 different skills/abilities. Get rid of the macro in WoW and I would maybe agree with you in this one. Also now, WoW PvP is the worst I've seen in a while, the game was wayyyy better before. Macros didn't have that much of an impact on PvP. They're still global cooldown that prevent you from using multiple abilities at the same time. I've played Arenas and PvP for multiple years and the only time it became problematic ( macros that allow pets to kill shaman's totem on their own, or auto counterspelling ) it got fixed pretty quickly. In my opinion, when you put fair limitations on them, macros give the game more depth. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17238 Posts
On February 22 2013 07:00 DPK wrote: The game is pretty good, the only thing is that its P2W. If you play as a free player, you will find out quickly that its gets really annoying that someone the same level has you can 1-2 shot you every single time because of the persistent items. That's what made me quit. Also the game doesn't have a lot of players. Only like 1 server with a decent number of players and another with a small number. Since when? I was playing the game for months, had great fun with it so I decided to purchase it to show my appreciation. Looking at the items I got after purchase (and a list of available items you can pay for with irl money) didn't really make any difference on the gameplay. Sure, you get some minibuffs but it's nothing gamebreaking and certainly nothing that can't be countered with wits and skill. I guess it might matter at the toppest of top levels, where you have to be godlike to even be considered a competitor, but it's going to be a while before anyone new gets there anyway. It's all about skill really, all the p2w items help you by making you kill someone in 5 hits instead of 7 while experienced people can kill you in 3 hits even without the items. Oh, and the fact that if you pay you get access to Hellbourne (OP) units? Being able to 1-shot anyone and having a shitton of hp doesn't mean much when you discover you can be soloed by someone playing worker (consider scv killing ultralisk solo). I don't know if you ever played Die By The Sword but it's pretty close. | ||
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
On February 20 2013 12:37 Xahhk wrote: guild wars 2 (world vs world). Might get some kind of matchmaking in 6 months time for the battleground style pvp. Matchmaking is already in for paid tournaments. They said they will add it to free tournies as well. I feel there is a lot of depth in the game. GW1 had more depth in creating builds (think Magic the Gathering), where GW2 the depth is more about team strategy (think Team Fortress 2). GW2 is currently quite lacking in the PvP systems/structures needed for a large PvP community to thrive in their sandbox PvP game mode, but the devs have said all the right things and tons of stuff is on the horizon such as ladder, custom servers, etc. If you're a new player, by the time you get familiar with the game enough to start forming teams and looking for challenges vs other organized team hopefully these systems will be in place. GW2 also has open world PvP where servers fight each other and IIRC they also have a lot of new things coming their way, but I don't participate in open world PvP as much so somebody else will have to shed light on that aspect of the game. | ||
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Infernal_dream
United States2359 Posts
On February 22 2013 08:50 Skyro wrote: Matchmaking is already in for paid tournaments. They said they will add it to free tournies as well. I feel there is a lot of depth in the game. GW1 had more depth in creating builds (think Magic the Gathering), where GW2 the depth is more about team strategy (think Team Fortress 2). GW2 is currently quite lacking in the PvP systems/structures needed for a large PvP community to thrive in their sandbox PvP game mode, but the devs have said all the right things and tons of stuff is on the horizon such as ladder, custom servers, etc. If you're a new player, by the time you get familiar with the game enough to start forming teams and looking for challenges vs other organized team hopefully these systems will be in place. GW2 also has open world PvP where servers fight each other and IIRC they also have a lot of new things coming their way, but I don't participate in open world PvP as much so somebody else will have to shed light on that aspect of the game. The problem is, is that all of this should've shipped with the game. Many people have already jumped ship from GW2 because it wasn't what it was supposed to be at launch. You can fix it up all you want, but a lot of those people who left won't come back. Even if it is free to play. You have to capture the audience in the first rendition, or you lose them. | ||
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
On February 22 2013 08:57 Infernal_dream wrote: The problem is, is that all of this should've shipped with the game. Many people have already jumped ship from GW2 because it wasn't what it was supposed to be at launch. You can fix it up all you want, but a lot of those people who left won't come back. Even if it is free to play. You have to capture the audience in the first rendition, or you lose them. While that may very well be the case, LoL has proven that it is not an absolute. LoL had a tiny dev team at launch and lacked many of the fundamental systems it has in place today. Although, LoL is true F2P whereas GW2 is B2P. I guess we shall see. Apparently the GW2 population is actually growing the past few months (at least that's what ANet has stated). | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10121 Posts
On February 22 2013 07:00 DPK wrote: Darkfall a game with higher skill ceiling?? LOL comon this game is a real joke. Macro combat with some skills like convert mana to stamina or stamina to mana, people casting a certain skill at their feet to pop in the air 10 feet to flee away from combat easily and some other really stupid stuff like hitboxes not being the same on every races. If this is a high skill ceiling for you, then I doubt you ever played a real high skill ceiling game. And don't tell me swing your sword to another guy is more hard to do than a tab target game because its not really. I am comparing to other MMORPGs. And yes, that's MMORPGs fault for the most part. And fuck TAB. You are not even speaking about age of conan combo skipping. You should define what skill means for you, mechanically speaking, EVERY SINGLE MMORPG is easy as fuck, mostly due to GCDs an zero aim. Tab target is idiotic how in the hell can you compare swinging combo's to a moving/strafing target to tabbing. Amazing to read this stupidity. | ||
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Amarok
Australia2003 Posts
Yeah I went there. | ||
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Ighox
Norway580 Posts
On February 22 2013 07:00 DPK wrote: Darkfall a game with higher skill ceiling?? LOL comon this game is a real joke. Macro combat with some skills like convert mana to stamina or stamina to mana, people casting a certain skill at their feet to pop in the air 10 feet to flee away from combat easily and some other really stupid stuff like hitboxes not being the same on every races. If this is a high skill ceiling for you, then I doubt you ever played a real high skill ceiling game. And don't tell me swing your sword to another guy is more hard to do than a tab target game because its not really. I think it's pretty obvious you just read about the game on MMORPG.com or something and didn't actually play it. There were definitely periods that had large imbalances, like cycling r90 nukes and instant-rays and that wasn't really that good PvP, but generally it took a lot of skill to be at the top of the food chain. I find Age of Wushu to have the most fun PvP right now, mostly because there are many options and the jail system and bounties makes it interesting. | ||
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AnomalySC2
United States2073 Posts
On February 22 2013 05:46 ParanoiaDHerO wrote: I agree with this.. Sipping hatorade and bashing WoW seems to be in style, but the game is legit PvP, far greater than most of the games mentioned. There is something to be said for the smoothness of the way a game plays, and no one has ever came close to WoW in that regard. Here is some truly smooth combat. Looking forwards to that game when NCSOFT finally brings it to the states. 1 v 1 and 3 v 3 arena | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17238 Posts
On February 22 2013 10:37 AnomalySC2 wrote: Here is some truly smooth combat. + Show Spoiler + https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDlpMk4ESMA Looking forwards to that game when NCSOFT finally brings it to the states. 1 v 1 and 3 v 3 arena https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1SqrjvjqUQ I would actually enjoy something with less fireworks and more substance to it. Smooth is good, but flashy, teleporty, distracty thingies are not. | ||
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DPK
Canada487 Posts
On February 22 2013 08:05 Noocta wrote: Macros didn't have that much of an impact on PvP. They're still global cooldown that prevent you from using multiple abilities at the same time. I've played Arenas and PvP for multiple years and the only time it became problematic ( macros that allow pets to kill shaman's totem on their own, or auto counterspelling ) it got fixed pretty quickly. In my opinion, when you put fair limitations on them, macros give the game more depth. If macros didn't have that much of an impact on PvP, don't you think they would allow it in games like sc2? And how can macro gives more depth to the game when its only there to dumb down the gameplay to a point where you don't need 30 hotkeys for you abilities but just like 4 or 5? That doesn't make any sense to me. On February 22 2013 08:36 Manit0u wrote: Since when? I was playing the game for months, had great fun with it so I decided to purchase it to show my appreciation. Looking at the items I got after purchase (and a list of available items you can pay for with irl money) didn't really make any difference on the gameplay. Sure, you get some minibuffs but it's nothing gamebreaking and certainly nothing that can't be countered with wits and skill. I guess it might matter at the toppest of top levels, where you have to be godlike to even be considered a competitor, but it's going to be a while before anyone new gets there anyway. It's all about skill really, all the p2w items help you by making you kill someone in 5 hits instead of 7 while experienced people can kill you in 3 hits even without the items. Oh, and the fact that if you pay you get access to Hellbourne (OP) units? Being able to 1-shot anyone and having a shitton of hp doesn't mean much when you discover you can be soloed by someone playing worker (consider scv killing ultralisk solo). Well if you think having items that boost your HP by 15%, HP regen by 15% and increased melee damage isnt P2W (and that's only one of them, im pretty sure you can have more that 1 at once), then I guess P2W doesn't even exist in any games. Sure some skilled guy will beat the unskilled one who has P2W items, but both on the same level, the one who's paying will beat the one who doesn't every single time. On February 22 2013 09:42 Godwrath wrote: I am comparing to other MMORPGs. And yes, that's MMORPGs fault for the most part. And fuck TAB. You are not even speaking about age of conan combo skipping. You should define what skill means for you, mechanically speaking, EVERY SINGLE MMORPG is easy as fuck, mostly due to GCDs an zero aim. Tab target is idiotic how in the hell can you compare swinging combo's to a moving/strafing target to tabbing. Amazing to read this stupidity. It might be stupid for you, but its stupid for me to think that standing near a target and swinging your weapon without having to perfectly aim all the time your swing makes it much more difficult to play. I'm not speaking about AoC because I've never played it. I agree with you, every single MMORPG is easy as hell, just because you put a mechanic that need you to "aim" your target without the need to be precise is as dumb as a tab target game IMO. You just get close to your target, hit your attack and that's it. How's that much much more difficult? Especially when you consider that your aim doesn't even need to be on the target and it will still hit him. It's a different gameplay, but not much harder one, at least when it comes to melee combat, ranged is a different story. Its a bit harder than melee, but it still isn't as precise as an FPS game. Funny thing is, you think what I've said is stupid but you can even give me a good reason as to why you think Darkfall combat was good and with a high skill ceiling. That is some real stupidity if you ask me. On February 22 2013 10:34 Ighox wrote: I think it's pretty obvious you just read about the game on MMORPG.com or something and didn't actually play it. There were definitely periods that had large imbalances, like cycling r90 nukes and instant-rays and that wasn't really that good PvP, but generally it took a lot of skill to be at the top of the food chain. I didn't actually played it sure, but I've watch enough videos of "good PvP" of it and did some research (because I actually wanted to play) to understand how lame the game was. If the PvP was really that good, the game would've have a lot more players and they wouldn't shut down the original to release a new dumb down version of the original. The game looked great, until I saw some stupid mechanics such as mana to stamina conversion, knockback and etc. Looking at the melee combat made me lol. People not even aiming the target and still hitting it. Same with the spells (but I guess that was with magnitude, something to make spells more easy to land *high skill ceiling?*). Laughable for me really. If you're going to add aiming in a MMO, at least do it right, not some crappy aiming that doesn't required any precision. What's the point of aiming if you can aim 2 feet away from the target and still it him? Would that be good in a FPS game? Nope. And that's my point on this. Not everyone will agree with me but its ok. | ||
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PineapplePizza
United States749 Posts
On February 22 2013 11:44 Manit0u wrote: I would actually enjoy something with less fireworks and more substance to it. Smooth is good, but flashy, teleporty, distracty thingies are not. I don't think I can tell wtf is going on in ANY mmorpg until I've played it. Also, what's up catgirls being in all of these ncsoft games? Why is this guy's guild tag named Loli, anyhow? O_o | ||
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Infernal_dream
United States2359 Posts
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dae
Canada1600 Posts
On February 22 2013 07:38 DPK wrote: WoW doesn't have the highest personal skill ceiling... Its not any different than most MMO. Especially when you consider people using macro that bind everything they need on 4 hotkeys. Having macro in any games dumb down the skill ceiling a huge amount IMO. Everyone can spam 4 abilities with macros, not everyone can hit the right key at the right time while having 30 different skills/abilities. Get rid of the macro in WoW and I would maybe agree with you in this one. Also now, WoW PvP is the worst I've seen in a while, the game was wayyyy better before. Macros had very little effect on WoW PvP. The main macros that had an effect on gameplay were like popping trinket+offensive cooldown at same time. In fact, Macros generally increased keybindings as there was a macro to cast a heal/cleanse each individual party member. Any1 that was using only 4 hotkeys for WoW PvP was either doing it really really wrong, or playing a ret paladin. Also, the main difference between WoW and SC2 is that WoW had a global cooldown, SC2 did not. In WoW you have to make the decision every GCD to do something, whereas in SC2 theres a set of things that you want to all be done at the same time, and you are limited by what you physically can do. Did you ever even arena in WoW? | ||
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Infernal_dream
United States2359 Posts
On February 22 2013 12:05 dae wrote: Macros had very little effect on WoW PvP. The main macros that had an effect on gameplay were like popping trinket+offensive cooldown at same time. In fact, Macros generally increased keybindings as there was a macro to cast a heal/cleanse each individual party member. Any1 that was using only 4 hotkeys for WoW PvP was either doing it really really wrong, or playing a ret paladin. Also, the main difference between WoW and SC2 is that WoW had a global cooldown, SC2 did not. In WoW you have to make the decision every GCD to do something, whereas in SC2 theres a set of things that you want to all be done at the same time, and you are limited by what you physically can do. Did you ever even arena in WoW? You're admitting in this post that macros = less key presses which in turn = less skill. If I can push one button and it hits three or four consecutively for me, then that's reducing the skill level. Macros reduced keybindings because now you didn't have 4 bars full of shit you don't use, you just have one full of macros. There's no point in me putting skills on my skillbar when I have macros that cast it for me. People do that shit to look like they have tons of usable skills. | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
Most of the time macro were used to have quicker targeting. ( for healing teamate, for controling or counterspelling ) There was no " I hit my macro and 4 of my spell go off on their own" macro in this game. | ||
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Infernal_dream
United States2359 Posts
On February 22 2013 13:19 Noocta wrote: Let's be honest about it. Even with a few macro, WoW arenas request atleast 20 buttons per classes. Most of the time macro were used to have quicker targeting. ( for healing teamate, for controling or counterspelling ) There was no " I hit my macro and 4 of my spell go off on their own" macro in this game. Have you seen an arena lately? It takes an hour for someone to die. The regen rates are completely through the roof. The hp and mana pools are so large you might as well not even have them on the screen. | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On February 22 2013 13:41 Infernal_dream wrote: Have you seen an arena lately? It takes an hour for someone to die. The regen rates are completely through the roof. The hp and mana pools are so large you might as well not even have them on the screen. Yeah I get that. Most of the people here are talking about TBC / WotLK Arenas anyway. ( I personnaly stopped right after Cataclysm ) WoW PvP have gone to shit in the last expansions. | ||
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PineapplePizza
United States749 Posts
On February 22 2013 13:41 Infernal_dream wrote: Have you seen an arena lately? It takes an hour for someone to die. The regen rates are completely through the roof. The hp and mana pools are so large you might as well not even have them on the screen. I stopped playing WoW around the end of WotLK, and I remember how people complained all the time about getting instagibbed by destro locks + bloodlust, etc. I just wish there was an MMO where party / raid fights didn't just involve heal-tank-wank, but had something more dynamic. I hate sitting behind a scaled-up, 12-foot-tall bad guy with weird collision, poking him in the ass with 1234 while dodging his farts. I'd also like for there to be none of this arbitrary level / gear difference crap, and more emphasis on world-pvp, maybe some kind of territory-control thing. I don't want to murder robots for 120 hours before I can queue up to join instances- and nothing else. Also, if I wanted to play PvP in a boxed tournament setting, I'd go play this instead: | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On February 22 2013 14:20 Ooshmagoosh wrote: I stopped playing WoW around the end of WotLK, and I remember how people complained all the time about getting instagibbed by destro locks + bloodlust, etc. I just wish there was an MMO where party / raid fights didn't just involve heal-tank-wank, but had something more dynamic. I hate sitting behind a scaled-up, 12-foot-tall bad guy with weird collision, poking him in the ass with 1234 while dodging his farts. I'd also like for there to be none of this arbitrary level / gear difference crap, and more emphasis on world-pvp, maybe some kind of territory-control thing. I don't want to murder robots for 120 hours before I can queue up to join instances- and nothing else. Also, if I wanted to play PvP in a boxed tournament setting, I'd go play this instead: To be honest, GW2 anwser a lot of your demands. Sadly the " no tank healer dps" thing somewhat don't work out that good. They have no gear griding organized pvp and huge world vs world battlegrounds tho. | ||
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ssiimm
Canada14 Posts
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Reyis
Pitcairn287 Posts
On February 22 2013 03:16 Irre wrote: If you didn't play UO pre- Age of Shadows..(EA). you will never understand how amazing that game was and how there will never be another like it for many reasons. Gw2 seems the best currently..WoW is just god awful now and everything else is basically a pure rip off. Darkfall is interesting but probably way too small a community to really have a great PVP MMO.... and probably not very clean/polished. Any game that had potential good PVP basically got their populations killed by WoW after the first few months so there aren't very many solid options. Maybe some of the newer games like planetside 2? AoS was a good expansion pack tbh. What ruined UO was the next expansion after AoS. the samurai one. well, everything else that was released after AoS was crap and pretty much killed UO :/ but yeah, UO will always remain to be the best MMO i have ever played. | ||
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Angra
United States2652 Posts
On February 20 2013 19:20 Manit0u wrote: EVE and GW definitely. Depends on what you like more (apart from the setting obviously). GW has the advantage strictly from PvP perspective as it allows you to create a max level character with good gear right off the bat (but you can only use this character in PvP, can't enter PvE areas with it) and then unlock more skills and items through PvP (or simulations with AI). It also has nice in-built observer mode which lets you watch ongoing tournaments and even some past ones if I remember correctly. If you'd like to see how good PvP looks like in GW with good commentary to boot you should visit GWGApok's channel @ YouTube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUSGjGnucQ4 Well that video/channel certainly brings back some memories. I did some commentary on there too for a couple of the tournaments, those are my guildmates in that commentary you linked haha. Still hang out on vent with them all the time even now so I thought they started talking on vent when I loaded the video. :p Like people are saying, these days it's not nearly as good as it used to be back before some of the expansions came out, but it's still probably the best PvP for an MMO-style game out there. I'm not sure how active it is these days though. | ||
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ssiimm
Canada14 Posts
AoS was a good expansion pack tbh. What ruined UO was the next expansion after AoS. the samurai one. well, everything else that was released after AoS was crap and pretty much killed UO :/ i have to disagree here AoS killed UO for me...the new item system broke Ultima Online's long-standing tradition of being skill-based in favor of an item-based system. that was a big mistake imho | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On February 22 2013 07:38 DPK wrote: WoW doesn't have the highest personal skill ceiling... Its not any different than most MMO. Especially when you consider people using macro that bind everything they need on 4 hotkeys. Having macro in any games dumb down the skill ceiling a huge amount IMO. Everyone can spam 4 abilities with macros, not everyone can hit the right key at the right time while having 30 different skills/abilities. Get rid of the macro in WoW and I would maybe agree with you in this one. Also now, WoW PvP is the worst I've seen in a while, the game was wayyyy better before. I wonder what you mean by WoW, it's certainly not World of Warcraft if you think macros are a big deal and that WoW PvP is even close to playable with 4 hotkeys. | ||
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Ighox
Norway580 Posts
On February 22 2013 11:54 DPK wrote: It might be stupid for you, but its stupid for me to think that standing near a target and swinging your weapon without having to perfectly aim all the time your swing makes it much more difficult to play. I'm not speaking about AoC because I've never played it. I agree with you, every single MMORPG is easy as hell, just because you put a mechanic that need you to "aim" your target without the need to be precise is as dumb as a tab target game IMO. You just get close to your target, hit your attack and that's it. How's that much much more difficult? Especially when you consider that your aim doesn't even need to be on the target and it will still hit him. It's a different gameplay, but not much harder one, at least when it comes to melee combat, ranged is a different story. Its a bit harder than melee, but it still isn't as precise as an FPS game. Funny thing is, you think what I've said is stupid but you can even give me a good reason as to why you think Darkfall combat was good and with a high skill ceiling. That is some real stupidity if you ask me. I didn't actually played it sure, but I've watch enough videos of "good PvP" of it and did some research (because I actually wanted to play) to understand how lame the game was. If the PvP was really that good, the game would've have a lot more players and they wouldn't shut down the original to release a new dumb down version of the original. The game looked great, until I saw some stupid mechanics such as mana to stamina conversion, knockback and etc. Looking at the melee combat made me lol. People not even aiming the target and still hitting it. Same with the spells (but I guess that was with magnitude, something to make spells more easy to land *high skill ceiling?*). Laughable for me really. If you're going to add aiming in a MMO, at least do it right, not some crappy aiming that doesn't required any precision. What's the point of aiming if you can aim 2 feet away from the target and still it him? Would that be good in a FPS game? Nope. And that's my point on this. Not everyone will agree with me but its ok. The conversions were great because it allowed you to fight outnumbered, the AoE spells were needed because the game focused on large battles and they aren't as bad as you claim. Would that be good in a FPS game? Probably, most FPS games do have AoE weapons. Arrows were affected by gravity and has no AoE, but I guess that does not require aim according to you. I think Darkfall had a larger skill ceiling than most MMORPG's because you had to aim, because you could win while being far outnumbered and you could consistently win 10-0 against another player with equal or better stats/gear as long as you were better than him. The reason Darkfall shut down didn't have anything to do with the combat system, that was the only thing the game did right, it shut down because the developers were retarded, they were slow at fixing stuff and after the first two large patches they stopped supporting the game because they started working on this new game instead. 2 years of no updates and silent developers killed the game. Anyways, all the reasons you come with are based on videos you have watched or comments you have seen by other people like you, talking about how a game sucks without even having tried it is some real stupidity if you ask me. | ||
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fartosis77
Belgium461 Posts
Not some instance based battleground idea that was installed into every MMO ever since. Why does everything have to be calculated and weighed on a scale so that everything is 'balanced' and there is no room for spontaneity? Who wouldn't get a hard on from being in the middle of a battle consisting of lets say 15 to 20 people and then watch another group of 10 or so jump from over the horizon into the battlefield? Where you actually had to use siege mechanics to capture keeps in a more realistic way than to just ignore any attackers and bash yourself through gates as soon as possible. Such a shame a lot of people who play MMOs as of lets say 2005 never got to know the true meaning of MMO. They all prefer their stupid boxed in 40vs40 15vs15 10vs10 5vs5 2vs2 crap to show who is the better player by only measuring it through planned out tactics instead of improvising and coming up plan b and perhaps even c and d to win in combat. Prydwen 4 lyfe Public Enemies <3 | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On February 22 2013 18:07 fartosis77 wrote: Clearly Dark Age of Camelot. The true definition of an MMO. Not some instance based battleground idea that was installed into every MMO ever since. Why does everything have to be calculated and weighed on a scale so that everything is 'balanced' and there is no room for spontaneity? Who wouldn't get a hard on from being in the middle of a battle consisting of lets say 15 to 20 people and then watch another group of 10 or so jump from over the horizon into the battlefield? Where you actually had to use siege mechanics to capture keeps in a more realistic way than to just ignore any attackers and bash yourself through gates as soon as possible. Such a shame a lot of people who play MMOs as of lets say 2005 never got to know the true meaning of MMO. They all prefer their stupid boxed in 40vs40 15vs15 10vs10 5vs5 2vs2 crap to show who is the better player by only measuring it through planned out tactics instead of improvising and coming up plan b and perhaps even c and d to win in combat. Prydwen 4 lyfe Public Enemies <3 Sounds to me just like World vs World in GW2. Which sucks. So yeah. | ||
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klaxen
United States361 Posts
This is a 8 minute game that would have been over many times if it wasn't against a world class shaman. | ||
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PineapplePizza
United States749 Posts
"I'M KILLING TAYLOR SWIFT" I lol'ed | ||
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yanot
France130 Posts
Also you can get the full gearset to be competitive in 1 or 2 weeks, when the game launched you needed months or obscene luck with bags. And they will reduce the gear gap more with the next patch and their new "bolster" system. For open PVP, the new Ilum is also nice but you will probably need some mates & a guild to enjoy it more. | ||
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greggy
United Kingdom1483 Posts
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Silvanel
Poland4725 Posts
On February 22 2013 11:54 DPK wrote: If macros didn't have that much of an impact on PvP, don't you think they would allow it in games like sc2? And how can macro gives more depth to the game when its only there to dumb down the gameplay to a point where you don't need 30 hotkeys for you abilities but just like 4 or 5? That doesn't make any sense to me. Depends what macros allow You to do. When it is simply allowing You to do something -which can be done otherwise - flawlessly or faster. Removing the skill from some actions, like making a combo with single button. Thats stupid. And unecessary. When macros are allowing You to do something that would not be possible otherwise they can enrich the game. Theres plenty fo examples but since some of You didnt play L2 i will go in details. simple /target "name" macro allow You to target specific target - for example known enemy playing very important pvp class. Like bishop or overlord in Lineage 2. I personaly had like two pages of macros devoted to enemy overlords. And belive me when theres 200people fighting, its not easy to find one person. /take target from "name" -allowing You to take target from Your party leader, or party targeter, ensuring that whole party atack same target, which is sometimes necessary. gear change macros, in most games You cant change gear during the fight, it either takes too long, or is impossible. However if u Can those kinds of macros allow You to select best gear for defence, offence , or even for fighting specific class. I could go on, and on. Every games have its quirks. Sometimes macros can enrich the game, sometimes they suck. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17238 Posts
On February 22 2013 20:52 Silvanel wrote: gear change macros, in most games You cant change gear during the fight, it either takes too long, or is impossible. However if u Can those kinds of macros allow You to select best gear for defence, offence , or even for fighting specific class. This seems like blatant abuse. Also, I'm not buying the entire "enriches the game" stuff. People play games because they have a set of rules, if you arbitarily discard or change them it's no longer the same game. | ||
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Roggay
Switzerland6320 Posts
On February 22 2013 18:12 klaxen wrote: Nothing beats WoW's smoothness for me. Also it's still pretty exciting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXLjjLYS2uY This is a 8 minute game that would have been over many times if it wasn't against a world class shaman. I watch Reckful stream pretty regularly even though I didnt touch Cataclysm or Pandathing at all (stopped retail WoW when sc2 came out, end of wotlk) because he is so entertaining to watch and its actually fun to watch him 3v3 all day. | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4725 Posts
On February 22 2013 21:31 Manit0u wrote: This seems like blatant abuse. Also, I'm not buying the entire "enriches the game" stuff. People play games because they have a set of rules, if you arbitarily discard or change them it's no longer the same game. I dont get You. Noone is braking rules here. In L2 macros are build in game, everyone can use them, everyone use them. Lets set something stright here, i am not talking about abusing rules, or interefering with game client or whatever. I am talking about using the game interface to the fullest. Games allows macros? Nothing wrong in using them. Do they enrich or make the game more shallow? It depends. IN L2 they work great, in WoW they are the oposite (or so i hear). To explain furthmore in L2 You can do macro for like 4 skills or even ten, but they wil be cast each after the other. And everyone of them have casting time. This gives You no advantage, in fact its stupid. Everyone of You skills can be interrupted, blocked, You can lose target or whatever. Knowing wen You can use Your skills/macros and on whom thats the trick. Thats in L2. However if a game has no or very low globalcooldowns and casting times, that might ba a problem. Every game is different. | ||
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AnomalySC2
United States2073 Posts
On February 22 2013 18:12 klaxen wrote: Nothing beats WoW's smoothness for me. Also it's still pretty exciting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXLjjLYS2uY This is a 8 minute game that would have been over many times if it wasn't against a world class shaman. I dunno, I just never could get into WoW arena no matter how hard I tried. At one point I hit 2200 with some RL friends, we were running frost mage, destro lock, restro druid, and it just felt like wins and losses were (mostly) decided from whatever compositions you were running or facing. There is a little bit of skill, but the game has so many balance issues and it's so complex and rng based that it just ends up not being satisfying. I always end up just playing LoL or Dota 2 after trying to get into arena haha. | ||
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zbedlam
Australia549 Posts
On February 22 2013 18:11 Tobberoth wrote: Sounds to me just like World vs World in GW2. Which sucks. So yeah. WvW isn't close to RvR (DAoC) Similarities end at keeps. The reason DAoC PvP was good was realm points and teamwork being highly rewarded. Keeps and sieges were a side activity for the majority of players. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
It's enjoyable watching some of the top players play in arenas, but I could never get over the feeling that it's just too RNG / composition luck. (Maybe this is a little colored by my TBC experience with arena cough macestun cough) Then I'd just go play dota - now I just play LoL I loooooooved Ragnarok Online's WoE's (GVG) - even though it was imbalanced as shit, it was imbalanced in a way that relied on teamwork. My favorite GvG expereinces are from there. I enjoyed GW too, but I just don't get the same feel out of GW2 (I liked how GW was like... a TCG MMO? Design a 'deck' of abilities & attributes, then you also have to execute it well.) | ||
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tooDARKpark
United States149 Posts
On February 20 2013 13:08 Pufftrees wrote: EvE online, see TL thread! I agree. EVE is the only game I've played in years where PVP had the risk of serious loss, and where PVP victory allows you to directly turn others' losses into your gain. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
In terms of more typical MMOs i loved GW1, but that's long gone. After that, of all the MMOs i've played, I think WoW by far has the most fluid and fun combat. How they implemented the combat is always the part i disliked (after early BC). | ||
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MaestroSC
United States2073 Posts
Southshore TM wars anyone? As soon as they put in BG's it became world pvp = worthless. Then when they put in cross server pvp = PvP meant it had NOTHING to do with what server you even played on anymore. Got Glad in Arena... but was too gear based. If you joined a season late, it was a SERIOUS grind at the end of the season to get high ranked, because you would have significant disadvantage for gear the entire season. Also, Legendary PvE gear made some comps/MU's ridiculous. The legendary mace from WotLK for instance... was an absolute force in 2v2/3v3 Arena... made that healer infinitely stronger than a healer without one. IDK got Glad in BG9, still thought it was too composition and gear focused. Also, i still think resilience killed the fun of PvP, but it let them give up on balancing classes and just balance the gear instead. Always wanted to get into EvE... too deep for me lol. Spent a week and was still like "w t f is going on..." and decided i missed the boat on that one and that it was time to gtfo of the water and stop trying to catch up to it lolol | ||
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fartosis77
Belgium461 Posts
On February 22 2013 18:11 Tobberoth wrote: Sounds to me just like World vs World in GW2. Which sucks. So yeah. Thank you for your time. | ||
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Maxyim
430 Posts
On February 23 2013 01:47 fartosis77 wrote: Thank you for your time. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUXxv3TKMqY Please explain how this has any relevance whatsoever to the thread. | ||
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BeMannerDuPenner
Germany5638 Posts
On February 23 2013 01:16 MaestroSC wrote: WoW Pre-battlegrounds. Was the only time WoW felt like an MMO when it came to PVP. Southshore TM wars anyone? As soon as they put in BG's it became world pvp = worthless. Then when they put in cross server pvp = PvP meant it had NOTHING to do with what server you even played on anymore. Got Glad in Arena... but was too gear based. If you joined a season late, it was a SERIOUS grind at the end of the season to get high ranked, because you would have significant disadvantage for gear the entire season. Also, Legendary PvE gear made some comps/MU's ridiculous. The legendary mace from WotLK for instance... was an absolute force in 2v2/3v3 Arena... made that healer infinitely stronger than a healer without one. IDK got Glad in BG9, still thought it was too composition and gear focused. Also, i still think resilience killed the fun of PvP, but it let them give up on balancing classes and just balance the gear instead. Always wanted to get into EvE... too deep for me lol. Spent a week and was still like "w t f is going on..." and decided i missed the boat on that one and that it was time to gtfo of the water and stop trying to catch up to it lolol resilience wasnt the problem and really needed. it was just broken from the start. game design/mechanics werent made for pvp. it always was stupidly imbalanced with blizzards "take turns beeing op" approach to balance. and in the end it was jsut a colorful clusterfuck . i played loads of arena. was near glad cutoff in 2s and 3s multiple times, had people pay for my enchants so i play with them etc. and still think it is, always was and always will be retarded. /edit played wow from ~season2 till season 8? whatever season it was when the super lazy stupid dumb scarlet "dailyquest " crusade colloseum was patched in during wotlk. for pvp mmos.. outside of eve dont think there is one. maybe some ultima or daoc shards. silkroad had a pretty cool system with caravans,bandits and guys to protect the caravans from bandits but it was pretty much just a asia grinder for gameplay. best bets might be(which both are no real mmos ;P): 1. dark souls 2 if they can improve on their retarded p2p system cause the pvp system is quite cool. 2. mmaaaybe path of exile since they plan to imrpove pvp alot and atleast its a arpg with tonsa of people to play with. would like a good one as well, could even bring me back to mmos since i love pvp. achieving things in games is cool but true victory can only come from winning over another person. | ||
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fartosis77
Belgium461 Posts
On February 23 2013 04:13 Maxyim wrote: Please explain how this has any relevance whatsoever to the thread. Just as much as his reply to my post has. None what so fucking ever. | ||
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fartosis77
Belgium461 Posts
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KingKayzz
33 Posts
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triper
1 Post
PVP is balanced based on 3vs3 areana matches. so induvidual class blalance does not exist, do in duals and in open world and in regular Battlegrounds, its chioas, its horible.But you'l find great fun in competitive organized team arena or Rated Battleground fights. They can be very rewarding. But it takes leveling up to end game and a long time of study and gearing up to be up to par with the competition and teams have no problem either keeping you out or dumping you if you don't perform. Ive looked through the above comments. GW2 sounds good, but may not be that much different from WoW. Forge is a game where you don't have to level up nor gear up, just study up on a class, do all the training you want than go straight to battle. Cons- new game very few players available, the current players are pretty pro pvpers who are already very good at the game and thus make your experience dificult. Its not an MMO, the game looks very cheap outside of battle. pretty much everything is through Steam. But the battle themself have pretty good mechanics, you can block, you have to aim to hit, no auto targeting, so it can be very fair combat. | ||
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
On February 23 2013 01:16 MaestroSC wrote: WoW Pre-battlegrounds. Was the only time WoW felt like an MMO when it came to PVP. Southshore TM wars anyone? As soon as they put in BG's it became world pvp = worthless. Then when they put in cross server pvp = PvP meant it had NOTHING to do with what server you even played on anymore. Got Glad in Arena... but was too gear based. If you joined a season late, it was a SERIOUS grind at the end of the season to get high ranked, because you would have significant disadvantage for gear the entire season. Also, Legendary PvE gear made some comps/MU's ridiculous. The legendary mace from WotLK for instance... was an absolute force in 2v2/3v3 Arena... made that healer infinitely stronger than a healer without one. IDK got Glad in BG9, still thought it was too composition and gear focused. Also, i still think resilience killed the fun of PvP, but it let them give up on balancing classes and just balance the gear instead. Always wanted to get into EvE... too deep for me lol. Spent a week and was still like "w t f is going on..." and decided i missed the boat on that one and that it was time to gtfo of the water and stop trying to catch up to it lolol Shadowmourne was a much bigger problem than that mace no one ever talked about or noticed :-) The biggest problem with WoW always has been, and always will be prioritizing class balance around PvE and BGs. Random, game-changing nerfs and buffs just came out of the blue because some spec no one cares about was under or overperforming in dragonslaying. What comp and season was your Glad? I missed it by 18 points in season 3 playing Shadowplay, and never really got much closer from that point on (insisted on playing with friends in the 2200-2500 range). | ||
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Vaelone
Finland4400 Posts
After TBC the game died for me though and I had to quit due to irl anyway and never came back properly, not touched the game for +2 years now. PvP in the few MMO's I've tried after WoW have lasted me between one hour and two weeks, GW2 being the biggest disappointment. Oh and I also missed season 1 Gladiator by 1 damn rank, thought we had it but nope.. And I was close to Marshal when guild decided to migrate to another server and reset my progress fml. | ||
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mau5mat
Northern Ireland461 Posts
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
I still wish someone would take the WoW engine, rebalance all the specs, and release a proper arena-and-bg only game. Shit, I'd be down to help develop it (I've shipped multiple AAA software titles). Something with the drop in/drop out style of a MOBA, but the gameplay of MMO. Why is this so hard? Does anyone know if there's an SDK for the WoW engine? | ||
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ZoW
United States3983 Posts
has been and always will be | ||
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ChoDing
United States740 Posts
for WvWvW, guild wars but still no fun.. | ||
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Deadlyhazard
United States1177 Posts
On February 26 2013 03:22 mau5mat wrote: Just can't say a bad word about the 'flow' of movement of WoW's PvP. You look at old videos by Vurtne, for example, and I am just blown away by how he controlled his character, especially at that time absolutely everyone was a backpedaling nublet. He just looked so smooth when he played. This is why Old WoW is the only pvp I can stand in the MMO genre. So good -- the control. I feel that's why GW2's pvp isn't popular, it feels clunky. | ||
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Nisyax
Netherlands756 Posts
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