Strongly disagree with saying Vincent was wrong to suggest resurrection. To any character in that setting, it would be either some miracle or some horror travesty. The idea that they would drag his corpse around in attempt to find resurrection would have made no sense and would have been extremely odd. In a sense it is not much different from this world.
Vincent put it very well in both being mad of dragging the rotten corpse of Tudagub around and in saying he never heard of someone being brought back from the dead, ever.
I do find the hook for Banon didn't work out. It is tricky to play out. The players know Banon is meant to be a player character and join the group. The characters may have wanted to reject Banon, but the players can't. Also, the reason Banon wanted to join indeed made no sense. As for the time spend on it not being entertaining, maybe. But that's an investment you have to pay.
I do agree there is no the challenge JP has to show he can roleplay different types of characters. Now we find out how much he was roleplaying Tudagub and how much it was just what JP wanted to do.
On June 11 2013 07:30 Proseat wrote: I was a bit disappointed how quickly especially Vincent of all party members gave up on exploring options to bring Tudagub back. He just wanted to burn him and all of his belongings (!) as quickly as possible. It felt like only Geoff was informed (by JP?) before the show that re-rolling was a foregone conclusion. I wish Abigael had at least followed through in taking all of Tudagub's valuable and iconic belongings (Pink Boots, healing bracelet, etc.). It's dumb not to do that when the party needs everything at their disposal to survive in the Elven Lands. The Pink Boots were also a key item to tie in the new JP character, yet again the party, or more so Vincent this time, managed to destroy a valuable quest item. So aggravating sometimes.
Enter Banon. His attempts to join the party out of the blue seemed really strange. Saying "my life-long quest (to find the stolen Pink Boots of my father) was stopped dead in its tracks (by you), but hey, can I join you?" felt out of place. JP should have played it out better and more believably I feel. For instance, he could have offered his services since he had traveled this far already (without the explicit goal to join the party), and then just slowly grow into staying with them for good over time.
You act like it easy to bring back people from the dead. I honestly was just mind boggled at why they even attempted to call Dalamar down and not just accept Tudagud death. When the lord of a town died, did they go oh we can resurrect him so keep his corpse fresh in the ice room? No, he died and is dead. Just as death is in our world, I would assume that death in that world is largely similar. Even with the power of sorcery, there is very little that can be done. Without some sort of legendary artifact or something, they cant bring him back and even then it questionable. The fact that they were stuck on an island as well furthermore show that it was stupid idea to even consider anything beyond calling upon Dalamar.
I am glad that Neal didnt let them bring Tudagub back beside the fact that it wouldnt make much sense because the party was getting rather cocky and been plowing through everything like super human. This will let them know that they can die and make them think of their move more cautiously. Regarding Tudagub gear, ya they should of taken it. Those stuff would of came in handy and I am sure Tudagub would of wanted them to make uses of his equipment since his last dying move was for the well being of his party. Maybe not his pink boots though but everything else...ya.
I don't care about having Tugglebutt back, but i do agree to everybody who said that Banon is a bit disappointing. It felt more like a showoff as anything else, desperately trying to web in spells in any given situation.
I don't know. Don't like it, doesn't fit too well into the group. Also, the group is kinda weirdly okay with him being an actual threat to them, as black mage. It feels like metagaming, and that's something i really don't like.
If they blocked Danon from joining the party it would slow the storyline down more and JP had to come up with some alternative plan to be accepted and people would complain about that. They are already complaining now.
I think this whole metagaming thing is kinda stupid. They play to have fun themselves and secondly to entertain the viewer. Yes, traditionally they also should ought to roleplay to the best of their ability, but that's not always easy. Also, when a player does roleplay badly any correction of the GM makes it even more less fun.
On June 11 2013 10:54 Komei wrote: If they blocked Danon from joining the party it would slow the storyline down more and JP had to come up with some alternative plan to be accepted and people would complain about that. They are already complaining now.
I think this whole metagaming thing is kinda stupid. They play to have fun themselves and secondly to entertain the viewer. Yes, traditionally they also should ought to roleplay to the best of their ability, but that's not always easy. Also, when a player does roleplay badly any correction of the GM makes it even more less fun.
You would think the one who makes money off of it (JP) would at least make an effort to make a story that would mesh with the party instead of being completely against them.
It's a pretty classical beginner thing. Everyone has this super individualistic character with no real reason to be out there doing stuff with others because that is badass, and then they expect the DM to make the group stick together.
If you create a character in a group-based PnP, make sure that they actually have a reason to group with the rest of the party. There might be situations where this is not that needed because the group gets pressed together by the adventure, but if you play your classical adventuring game, make sure you have a reason to be adventuring and to group up with other people to do that.
On June 11 2013 10:54 Komei wrote: If they blocked Danon from joining the party it would slow the storyline down more and JP had to come up with some alternative plan to be accepted and people would complain about that. They are already complaining now.
I think this whole metagaming thing is kinda stupid. They play to have fun themselves and secondly to entertain the viewer. Yes, traditionally they also should ought to roleplay to the best of their ability, but that's not always easy. Also, when a player does roleplay badly any correction of the GM makes it even more less fun.
Well, they're not complaining because bad RP though, they're complaining because a black mage doesn't fit the group. It's not how he introduced himself (even though that wasn't the best way). The white mage actually told them that a black mage would sacrifice them in the blink of an eye to reach his goal. Come on.
That feels way too much like "i'm Raistlin, i'm a black mage but i still somehow care for you, in a way, somehow". The black mage was a bad choice, to me.
On June 11 2013 10:54 Komei wrote: If they blocked Danon from joining the party it would slow the storyline down more and JP had to come up with some alternative plan to be accepted and people would complain about that. They are already complaining now.
I think this whole metagaming thing is kinda stupid. They play to have fun themselves and secondly to entertain the viewer. Yes, traditionally they also should ought to roleplay to the best of their ability, but that's not always easy. Also, when a player does roleplay badly any correction of the GM makes it even more less fun.
You would think the one who makes money off of it (JP) would at least make an effort to make a story that would mesh with the party instead of being completely against them.
He DID write 1000 word back story. But that got mostly thrown out the window when Vincent burned Tudagub's body along with the boots. He then had to come up with something on the spot to try and join the party.
It would be awesome if JP could role-play his black mage well enough to make up for perceived allegiances...I think there's plenty that can be done with what they have now.
Honestly the party has a very skewed perception of black magic and JP might be what is needed to make them trust Dalamar...There's a crazy amount of story that they are probably going to neglect and having Neal throw out hooks with Dalamar teleporting to them (to draw them back towards his arc) will begin to feel forced.
On June 11 2013 10:54 Komei wrote: If they blocked Danon from joining the party it would slow the storyline down more and JP had to come up with some alternative plan to be accepted and people would complain about that. They are already complaining now.
I think this whole metagaming thing is kinda stupid. They play to have fun themselves and secondly to entertain the viewer. Yes, traditionally they also should ought to roleplay to the best of their ability, but that's not always easy. Also, when a player does roleplay badly any correction of the GM makes it even more less fun.
You would think the one who makes money off of it (JP) would at least make an effort to make a story that would mesh with the party instead of being completely against them.
He DID write 1000 word back story. But that got mostly thrown out the window when Vincent burned Tudagub's body along with the boots. He then had to come up with something on the spot to try and join the party.
He made a backstory that involved accusing a party member of theft and thus causing conflict with the party instead of being useful/friendly and pique their interest.
On June 11 2013 10:20 m4inbrain wrote: I don't care about having Tugglebutt back, but i do agree to everybody who said that Banon is a bit disappointing. It felt more like a showoff as anything else, desperately trying to web in spells in any given situation.
I don't know. Don't like it, doesn't fit too well into the group. Also, the group is kinda weirdly okay with him being an actual threat to them, as black mage. It feels like metagaming, and that's something i really don't like.
Black robes aren't evil or maniacal. most evil/maniacal wizards are black robed, but its a squares and rectangles. and even evil wizards have reason to support an adventuring party. a group of people to protect him as he becomes more and more powerful and more wealthy and famous.
There are significant reasons an evil wizard could be a white robe in neals world ( like being able to cast spells without components, being able to kill people without uttering a word is powerful). most white wizards being good doesn't prevent an evil wizard from philosophically agreeing with the white wizards. and a black wizard could easily see entropy magic as a great method of protecting a town/city/innocents, you can only sacrifice your own blood with entropy magic, or evil creatures.
On June 11 2013 16:37 Dubzex wrote:
He made a backstory that involved accusing a party member of theft and thus causing conflict with the party instead of being useful/friendly and pique their interest.
HE made a backstory accusing a party members father who killed and ransacked a wizards home of killing and ransacking a wizards home. in order to tie himself in to the party and prevent the inevitable awkwardness that is "somehow i know all about you guys and your characters and pasts" when a new party member shows up. and it gave the party a convincing reason to be interested in this guy and not treat him as NPC #645 who has a quest for them.
On June 11 2013 10:20 m4inbrain wrote: I don't care about having Tugglebutt back, but i do agree to everybody who said that Banon is a bit disappointing. It felt more like a showoff as anything else, desperately trying to web in spells in any given situation.
I don't know. Don't like it, doesn't fit too well into the group. Also, the group is kinda weirdly okay with him being an actual threat to them, as black mage. It feels like metagaming, and that's something i really don't like.
Black robes aren't evil or maniacal. most evil/maniacal wizards are black robed, but its a squares and rectangles. and even evil wizards have reason to support an adventuring party. a group of people to protect him as he becomes more and more powerful and more wealthy and famous.
There are significant reasons an evil wizard could be a white robe in neals world ( like being able to cast spells without components, being able to kill people without uttering a word is powerful). most white wizards being good doesn't prevent an evil wizard from philosophically agreeing with the white wizards. and a black wizard could easily see entropy magic as a great method of protecting a town/city/innocents, you can only sacrifice your own blood with entropy magic, or evil creatures.
He made a backstory that involved accusing a party member of theft and thus causing conflict with the party instead of being useful/friendly and pique their interest.
HE made a backstory accusing a party members father who killed and ransacked a wizards home of killing and ransacking a wizards home. in order to tie himself in to the party and prevent the inevitable awkwardness that is "somehow i know all about you guys and your characters and pasts" when a new party member shows up. and it gave the party a convincing reason to be interested in this guy and not treat him as NPC #645 who has a quest for them.
Didn't even Tudagub told them his father stole them or something? Anyway an oger with magic pink boots... I think everything beside having stolen them from a wizard would be pretty unrealistic, so this shouldn't be a surprise for them
Why are so many people being so serious and judgmental about this... Remember guys this is just a game being played by people who are bronze level noobs (with the exception of the korean grand master DM Neal ). I know we have seen them improve a lot of the course of the show, but they have really only just graduated from playing vs the computers to stepping out into the ladder and getting placed in bronze league for the first time.
I know we all want to voice our opinions from time to time regardless of where it leads the conversation, but do we really need multiple pages of "Omg, why didn't they do it this way!? Why didn't they do this other thing this better way!?" Its the first new character introduction and its a learning process for the whole group.
Anyway, next episode is in something like 16 hours, get hyped!
On June 11 2013 14:32 m4inbrain wrote: That feels way too much like "i'm Raistlin, i'm a black mage but i still somehow care for you, in a way, somehow". The black mage was a bad choice, to me.
It actually seems pretty appropriate given the general downward spiral in morality this group has taken.
Take Vincent. Once upon a time he fought with Tudagub to actually spare the life of a goblin chieftain.
Recently he chopped a paladins head off, kidnapped a holy man, executed a gladiator just for the adulation of a crowd baying for blood and murderer a woman for 6,000 gold split 4 ways, no questions asked.
They crossed the moral event horizon a long time ago. A black mage isn't going to change that.
Now if JP had re-rolled as a paladin, that may of been a problem..
On June 11 2013 18:17 imJealous wrote: Why are so many people being so serious and judgmental about this... Remember guys this is just a game being played by people who are bronze level noobs (with the exception of the korean grand master DM Neal ). I know we have seen them improve a lot of the course of the show, but they have really only just graduated from playing vs the computers to stepping out into the ladder and getting placed in bronze league for the first time.
I know we all want to voice our opinions from time to time regardless of where it leads the conversation, but do we really need multiple pages of "Omg, why didn't they do it this way!? Why didn't they do this other thing this better way!?" Its the first new character introduction and its a learning process for the whole group.
Anyway, next episode is in something like 16 hours, get hyped!
I agree but fans do the same thing about any show. It's part of the fun.
One thing I'm really looking forward is how Banon and Dalamar will interact. And don't be too harsh people. Introducing a new player character into a story that's ongoing since months is really hard.
On June 10 2013 08:31 Dgiese wrote: So, I'm trying to think of stuff for a Rollplay drinking game. Not too worried about balance for now, just looking for good ideas. So Far: All for one: Drink when Bregor rolls a 1 (maybe expand this to the entire party?). Failed save vs death means you fail save vs drinking - drink double. Slap master: Drink whenever Vincent takes off his glove to slap someone. If it crits, drink double. All the things: Drink when Abi loots a corpse. Double if she tries to do it without the rest of the party noticing. Cheers: One should never have to drink alone - when Tudagub drinks, so do you. (Might have to change this up depending on what happens regarding tudagub). Movie critic: Drink when Vincent (maybe anyone?) makes a movie / tv type reference. (Maybe double if you've seen what he is referencing). Just fucking google it: Drink each time Neal has to explicitly consult the manual for something. I.e. "Wait a sec, I'll look it up".
Other stuff to add: A Neal specific rule? drink on crits? When party member gets KO'ed? Drink when party members shoot each other a ridiculously detailed look? Was thinking about 'drink every time the group calls for help from jexel / dalamar'... but that could result in alcohol poisoning.
But yeah, obv theres lots of little things to drink on if needed, but if anyone has any cool ideas feel free to chip in (e.g.every tiem vincent sharpens his swords - drink, every time abi's ferret dies drink a shot, etc etc). Maybe every time Neal says "Oh yeah".
Still working on this. Thought I'd bump it considering there is an episode tonight. Maybe have a drink every time Jp says foombaba, or whatever it is. Anyone with any cool ideas, feel free to chip in.
Now without a healer and with their equipment losing it overpoweredness due to better enemys: do you think we will see more casulties in the next sessions? Especially when they keep going brute force every time without using some tricks from banon or sneaking form abi?
EPT
). I know we have seen them improve a lot of the course of the show, but they have really only just graduated from playing vs the computers to stepping out into the ladder and getting placed in bronze league for the first time. 
