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On January 08 2014 05:33 Zaqwe wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2014 05:30 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:
so from 2 camps fighting eachother we went to bashing gen again for a decision in RPing HER CHARACTER IN THEIR GAME? gz on that.
god. stuff like that just makes me think that a show like that cant work with such close ties to the community...
or maybe i should just reading this stuff but then again i wanna know whats the situation now... It was bad roleplaying. If someone wants to roleplay an unhelpful party member they shouldn't be a cleric.
and who are you to judge? and why does it matter to you? and what about JPs antics, incontrols at times more then questionable decisions? you went so crazy about them as well?
this is about them having fun and sharing that. not fulfilling your preferred fantasy.
and why again does all of that even matter in any way anyways?
just stop.
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Even with all the excuses that some clerics can be bad and unhelpful that wasn't the premise established by the backstory given. And nothing in character was done to justify not healing a critically wounded comrade.
She just acted like Abigael with healing spells. Hence: bad roleplaying.
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On January 08 2014 05:43 chaos021 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2014 04:52 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On January 08 2014 04:18 Zaqwe wrote:
Advocating capturing an orc was great. Good idea.
Then the orcs died and a comrade was left critically injured.
Refusing to magically heal a critically injured party member in the midst of an urgent situation that called for them to make a hasty departure at as close to full strength as they could muster was really strange and seemed out of character for a cleric, especially given the back story. It seemed more like Abigael's selfish unhelpfulness than the new cleric character. Refusing to heal? How about, has a good idea about how to get information. Information is extremely valuable. What they could have learned is anybody's guess, but at the cost of a heal it's not like the game would be over if she hadn't healed JP. She thought a reasonable course of action was spending a heal on an orc to get information. This is not a bad idea, absurd, bad rp'ing, or anything. It is an extremely legit idea and the only reason Geoff's character acted that way is because it wasn't Geoff's idea. Go watch older episodes and how he responds anytime Gen has an idea that he disagrees with (no matter how valid it might be). This whole thing to me is ridiculous. Geoff needs to learn how to be a a brutish, mean character without simply being an asshole towards Gen. There are a lot of ways to roleplay a jerk that don't involve merely insulting your companions. JP needs to calm down and realize that Geoff's reaction to the threat of removal was from that of a hurt friend so any ensuing arguments he made clearly weren't going to be level-headed. Likewise, Geoff needs to understand that, even if he thinks a lot of the things he says are jokes, he needs to dial it back and avoid toeing the line every chance he gets. Wtf? He doesn't have this special "dick" mode just for Gen. If you've watched the series, he trolls Neal and Ryan also. He also gets frustrated with almost every character JP makes as well but in a different way.
So your argument is that he's an asshole to everybody? Well, that's quite a good line of defense that I can't really refute.
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On January 08 2014 05:40 Zaqwe wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2014 05:37 jcarlsoniv wrote:On January 08 2014 05:33 Zaqwe wrote:On January 08 2014 05:30 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:
so from 2 camps fighting eachother we went to bashing gen again for a decision in RPing HER CHARACTER IN THEIR GAME? gz on that.
god. stuff like that just makes me think that a show like that cant work with such close ties to the community...
or maybe i should just reading this stuff but then again i wanna know whats the situation now... It was bad roleplaying. If someone wants to roleplay an unhelpful party member they shouldn't be a cleric. by that line of thought, JP shouldn't have forsaken his god as Azril Abigail made it a point to rub it in Azril's face every time she got that he was literally just a dwarf with a talking hammer Exactly. JP shouldn't have forsaken his god as Azril. And I didn't see any white knights defending him. If he had his powers but ignored critically wounded party members the criticism of him would have been even worse.
and this is clearly where our thought processes differ
Was it a poor choice by JP to forsake his god? From a healer point of view, sure.
Did it make things interesting? I thought it added a bit of depth to a character that was now trying to create the dragonslayer weapons (namely Crawlfort) into a god-entity for worship/cleric purposes.
You seem to be incredibly myopic in terms of what you think a character should be doing. It's also not your choice to make.
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On January 08 2014 05:45 Zaqwe wrote:
Even with all the excuses that some clerics can be bad and unhelpful that wasn't the premise established by the backstory given. And nothing in character was done to justify not healing a critically wounded comrade.
She just acted like Abigael with healing spells. Hence: bad roleplaying.
the idea that you can slam your gavel and conclude that the RP was bad on the basis of about half an hour of trying to get into a character is so stupid and elitist that I can't even think of the appropriate words to convince you otherwise. clearly saying that she has wiggle room isn't possible, because she's a Cleric with a Backstory and therefore none apparently exists.
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Azril turned to the weapons in a desperate attempt to regain his powers which he obviously didn't want to lose in the first place.
No white knights were crawling all over to defend his uselessness and poor decision making.
If Azril kept his powers but just chose not to use them there would be even harsher criticism, again with no white knights.
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On January 08 2014 05:53 Zaqwe wrote:
Azril turned to the weapons in a desperate attempt to regain his powers which he obviously didn't want to lose in the first place.
No white knights were crawling all over to defend his uselessness and poor decision making.
If Azril kept his powers but just chose not to use them there would be even harsher criticism, again with no white knights.
And if Gen continued throughout the story for any significant amount of time to refuse cleric abilities, I'm sure you'd find a distinct lack of "white knighting". But you're making a claim of bad RP off of a very limited sample size.
I'm done with this argument because you're being intentionally thick headed and it's going to go nowhere.
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On January 08 2014 05:33 Zaqwe wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2014 05:30 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:
so from 2 camps fighting eachother we went to bashing gen again for a decision in RPing HER CHARACTER IN THEIR GAME? gz on that.
god. stuff like that just makes me think that a show like that cant work with such close ties to the community...
or maybe i should just reading this stuff but then again i wanna know whats the situation now... It was bad roleplaying. If someone wants to roleplay an unhelpful party member they shouldn't be a cleric.
Sorry, but that sounds like you completely don't understand what roleplaying can be about. Sure, it can be this semi-WoW style game. But it can also be different. There is a difference between characters and clichés. A priest can be an unhelpful person. Or maybe sometimes be unhelpful depending on circumstances or mood. Maybe he doesn't like dwarves, or gets cranky when he has had some ale. Not every thief is either robin hood or a complete lootwhore. There are more then one ways that a specific archetype can be played.
Basically, this tends to creep up in beginner rounds, from both sides. First there is people using their characters as an extension of what they want from a pure powergaming perspective. And then there are people telling them "no, you can't do X, a paladin would never do X!" and judging it as bad roleplaying. But usually, the narrower your definitions are, the less interesting the game gets. If there is only one way a player can have his character act without it getting labelled as bad roleplaying, then you don't have an interactive experience and you might as well read a book. Those tend to have much better linear stories.
The best solution is to find people who play similar to what you enjoy, because after all it is still a game (for most people who don't stream). Don't try to force people to play the way you like, and especially don't tell everyone that that is the only true way to play and everything else is bad roleplaying.
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No, I can guarantee there would still be a significant amount of white knights trying to justify hoarding heals like Abigael hoarded loot as some super deep intricate roleplaying and not just Gen's personality shining through her character.
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On January 08 2014 05:57 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2014 05:33 Zaqwe wrote:On January 08 2014 05:30 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:
so from 2 camps fighting eachother we went to bashing gen again for a decision in RPing HER CHARACTER IN THEIR GAME? gz on that.
god. stuff like that just makes me think that a show like that cant work with such close ties to the community...
or maybe i should just reading this stuff but then again i wanna know whats the situation now... It was bad roleplaying. If someone wants to roleplay an unhelpful party member they shouldn't be a cleric. Sorry, but that sounds like you completely don't understand what roleplaying can be about. Sure, it can be this semi-WoW style game. But it can also be different. There is a difference between characters and clichés. A priest can be an unhelpful person. Or maybe sometimes be unhelpful depending on circumstances or mood. Maybe he doesn't like dwarves, or gets cranky when he has had some ale. Not every thief is either robin hood or a complete lootwhore. There are more then one ways that a specific archetype can be played. Basically, this tends to creep up in beginner rounds, from both sides. First there is people using their characters as an extension of what they want from a pure powergaming perspective. And then there are people telling them "no, you can't do X, a paladin would never do X!" and judging it as bad roleplaying. But usually, the narrower your definitions are, the less interesting the game gets. If there is only one way a player can have his character act without it getting labelled as bad roleplaying, then you don't have an interactive experience and you might as well read a book. Those tend to have much better linear stories. The best solution is to find people who play similar to what you enjoy, because after all it is still a game (for most people who don't stream). Don't try to force people to play the way you like, and especially don't tell everyone that that is the only true way to play and everything else is bad roleplaying.
Post again after you watch the show. The cleric character was established as healing people around town and being useful so the village helped keep his abilities secret.
Presumably Gen had some input in what character to create and how to characterize him. Not healing JP came completely out of left field.
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On January 08 2014 05:58 Zaqwe wrote:
No, I can guarantee there would still be a significant amount of white knights trying to justify hoarding heals like Abigael hoarded loot as some super deep intricate roleplaying and not just Gen's personality shining through her character.
you are absolutely the only one who thinks that the bolded is some sort of black mark against her status as a roleplayer. how you can watch this show in particular and not understand that player personalities help define character personalities is...well, it's mind-blowing. how did you get through the show up to this point if this bothers you so much?
also, stop using "white knight" as if anyone here besides JP is guilty of that. nobody is even overly defending gen, they're just responding to your reductive views of what players can do in their own games.
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On January 08 2014 06:01 Zaqwe wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2014 05:57 Simberto wrote:On January 08 2014 05:33 Zaqwe wrote:On January 08 2014 05:30 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:
so from 2 camps fighting eachother we went to bashing gen again for a decision in RPing HER CHARACTER IN THEIR GAME? gz on that.
god. stuff like that just makes me think that a show like that cant work with such close ties to the community...
or maybe i should just reading this stuff but then again i wanna know whats the situation now... It was bad roleplaying. If someone wants to roleplay an unhelpful party member they shouldn't be a cleric. Sorry, but that sounds like you completely don't understand what roleplaying can be about. Sure, it can be this semi-WoW style game. But it can also be different. There is a difference between characters and clichés. A priest can be an unhelpful person. Or maybe sometimes be unhelpful depending on circumstances or mood. Maybe he doesn't like dwarves, or gets cranky when he has had some ale. Not every thief is either robin hood or a complete lootwhore. There are more then one ways that a specific archetype can be played. Basically, this tends to creep up in beginner rounds, from both sides. First there is people using their characters as an extension of what they want from a pure powergaming perspective. And then there are people telling them "no, you can't do X, a paladin would never do X!" and judging it as bad roleplaying. But usually, the narrower your definitions are, the less interesting the game gets. If there is only one way a player can have his character act without it getting labelled as bad roleplaying, then you don't have an interactive experience and you might as well read a book. Those tend to have much better linear stories. The best solution is to find people who play similar to what you enjoy, because after all it is still a game (for most people who don't stream). Don't try to force people to play the way you like, and especially don't tell everyone that that is the only true way to play and everything else is bad roleplaying. Post again after you watch the show. The cleric character was established as healing people around town and being useful so the village helped keep his abilities secret. Presumably Gen had some input in what character to create and how to characterize him. Not healing JP came completely out of left field.
This is awful. You make it sound like she outright refused to heal JP. Geoff attempted to bandage the leg and after another attempt then Gen did as well. To my recollection, nobody asked that she heal JP and she never said she wouldn't. Instead, the show went to break just a minute after this event and she had contemplated healing an orc for information. It's not like Gen had some habit on this character of never casting heals. The episode was an hour long and there was about 1-3 minutes during which Gen could have feasibly been healed JP before it ended abruptly.
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Guys some people don't play clerics as healbots. Using delayed healing as your primary source of healing so you can do something else with your spell slots is awesome.
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On January 08 2014 06:01 Zaqwe wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2014 05:57 Simberto wrote:On January 08 2014 05:33 Zaqwe wrote:On January 08 2014 05:30 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:
so from 2 camps fighting eachother we went to bashing gen again for a decision in RPing HER CHARACTER IN THEIR GAME? gz on that.
god. stuff like that just makes me think that a show like that cant work with such close ties to the community...
or maybe i should just reading this stuff but then again i wanna know whats the situation now... It was bad roleplaying. If someone wants to roleplay an unhelpful party member they shouldn't be a cleric. Sorry, but that sounds like you completely don't understand what roleplaying can be about. Sure, it can be this semi-WoW style game. But it can also be different. There is a difference between characters and clichés. A priest can be an unhelpful person. Or maybe sometimes be unhelpful depending on circumstances or mood. Maybe he doesn't like dwarves, or gets cranky when he has had some ale. Not every thief is either robin hood or a complete lootwhore. There are more then one ways that a specific archetype can be played. Basically, this tends to creep up in beginner rounds, from both sides. First there is people using their characters as an extension of what they want from a pure powergaming perspective. And then there are people telling them "no, you can't do X, a paladin would never do X!" and judging it as bad roleplaying. But usually, the narrower your definitions are, the less interesting the game gets. If there is only one way a player can have his character act without it getting labelled as bad roleplaying, then you don't have an interactive experience and you might as well read a book. Those tend to have much better linear stories. The best solution is to find people who play similar to what you enjoy, because after all it is still a game (for most people who don't stream). Don't try to force people to play the way you like, and especially don't tell everyone that that is the only true way to play and everything else is bad roleplaying. Post again after you watch the show. The cleric character was established as healing people around town and being useful so the village helped keep his abilities secret. Presumably Gen had some input in what character to create and how to characterize him. Not healing JP came completely out of left field.
Recognize that Gen is Gen, I'm not about to play full on psychoanalyst but c'mon. She just got a new character and might not be completely aware of her abilities. You watched the show - do you remember when Geoff goes to stop the bleeding from JP? Gen does the same and is baffled when she fails the roll saying, "But I'm a cleric how do I fail healing?"
She doesn't know what she's doing yet and that's very fair.. relax, I doubt she'll be doing this as time goes by - she wanted nothing but to help when on abi and that was really enjoyable to watch. Her blundering around as Gen is also enjoyable if you let it be
Man, I remember when she went and tried to save Ryan with her own two hands coming out of the sky 70ft above her. That was gold. She'll be helpful, just give her time to understand what she can/can't do lol
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Oh, you kids and your backseating. This is why I never enjoy having an "audience" while playing. Realise that it's the player, and the player alone, that plays their character. Anything else is irrelevant.
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On January 08 2014 06:13 plated.rawr wrote:
Oh, you kids and your backseating. This is why I never enjoy having an "audience" while playing. Realise that it's the player, and the player alone, that plays their character. Anything else is irrelevant.
but they dont play for themselves, they play for the audience, if they dont want comments on their rollplaying, the should not stream it^^
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On January 08 2014 05:58 Zaqwe wrote:
No, I can guarantee there would still be a significant amount of white knights trying to justify hoarding heals like Abigael hoarded loot as some super deep intricate roleplaying and not just Gen's personality shining through her character.
Enough with all this "white knight" nonsense. Seiously, learn to make an argument without dumb hackneyed ad hominems.
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On January 08 2014 06:04 TheExile19 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2014 05:58 Zaqwe wrote:
No, I can guarantee there would still be a significant amount of white knights trying to justify hoarding heals like Abigael hoarded loot as some super deep intricate roleplaying and not just Gen's personality shining through her character. you are absolutely the only one who thinks that the bolded is some sort of black mark against her status as a roleplayer. how you can watch this show in particular and not understand that player personalities help define character personalities is...well, it's mind-blowing. how did you get through the show up to this point if this bothers you so much? also, stop using "white knight" as if anyone here besides JP is guilty of that. nobody is even overly defending gen, they're just responding to your reductive views of what players can do in their own games.
Geoff knows his personality and picks characters to suit him. Gen feels like a fish out of water as a cleric and it was a bad character choice/bad roleplaying.
I think the white knight accusation here is valid because nobody would defend Azril if he ignored a wounded party member and when begrudgingly healing them used the least effective means possible. Especially in a time sensitive situation when they needed all party members to be as mobile and healthy as possible.
On January 08 2014 06:06 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2014 06:01 Zaqwe wrote:On January 08 2014 05:57 Simberto wrote:On January 08 2014 05:33 Zaqwe wrote:On January 08 2014 05:30 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:
so from 2 camps fighting eachother we went to bashing gen again for a decision in RPing HER CHARACTER IN THEIR GAME? gz on that.
god. stuff like that just makes me think that a show like that cant work with such close ties to the community...
or maybe i should just reading this stuff but then again i wanna know whats the situation now... It was bad roleplaying. If someone wants to roleplay an unhelpful party member they shouldn't be a cleric. Sorry, but that sounds like you completely don't understand what roleplaying can be about. Sure, it can be this semi-WoW style game. But it can also be different. There is a difference between characters and clichés. A priest can be an unhelpful person. Or maybe sometimes be unhelpful depending on circumstances or mood. Maybe he doesn't like dwarves, or gets cranky when he has had some ale. Not every thief is either robin hood or a complete lootwhore. There are more then one ways that a specific archetype can be played. Basically, this tends to creep up in beginner rounds, from both sides. First there is people using their characters as an extension of what they want from a pure powergaming perspective. And then there are people telling them "no, you can't do X, a paladin would never do X!" and judging it as bad roleplaying. But usually, the narrower your definitions are, the less interesting the game gets. If there is only one way a player can have his character act without it getting labelled as bad roleplaying, then you don't have an interactive experience and you might as well read a book. Those tend to have much better linear stories. The best solution is to find people who play similar to what you enjoy, because after all it is still a game (for most people who don't stream). Don't try to force people to play the way you like, and especially don't tell everyone that that is the only true way to play and everything else is bad roleplaying. Post again after you watch the show. The cleric character was established as healing people around town and being useful so the village helped keep his abilities secret. Presumably Gen had some input in what character to create and how to characterize him. Not healing JP came completely out of left field. This is awful. You make it sound like she outright refused to heal JP. Geoff attempted to bandage the leg and after another attempt then Gen did as well. To my recollection, nobody asked that she heal JP and she never said she wouldn't. Instead, the show went to break just a minute after this event and she had contemplated healing an orc for information. It's not like Gen had some habit on this character of never casting heals. The episode was an hour long and there was about 1-3 minutes during which Gen could have feasibly been healed JP before it ended abruptly.
She ignored the bleeding party member until someone else failed to stop the bleeding, then only begrudgingly used a poultice. After using the poultice it's very obvious she wasn't going to use a heal spell.
If someone had explicitly told her to heal everyone would get upset and call that person a bully.
She tacitly refused to use a heal spell even though it was clearly needed and other party members were focused on the injury which was the most important thing facing them.
On January 08 2014 06:10 GoldenH wrote:
Guys some people don't play clerics as healbots. Using delayed healing as your primary source of healing so you can do something else with your spell slots is awesome.
She had a heal spell. She just wanted to hoard it for some reason.
On January 08 2014 06:11 Kiepski wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2014 06:01 Zaqwe wrote:On January 08 2014 05:57 Simberto wrote:On January 08 2014 05:33 Zaqwe wrote:On January 08 2014 05:30 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:
so from 2 camps fighting eachother we went to bashing gen again for a decision in RPing HER CHARACTER IN THEIR GAME? gz on that.
god. stuff like that just makes me think that a show like that cant work with such close ties to the community...
or maybe i should just reading this stuff but then again i wanna know whats the situation now... It was bad roleplaying. If someone wants to roleplay an unhelpful party member they shouldn't be a cleric. Sorry, but that sounds like you completely don't understand what roleplaying can be about. Sure, it can be this semi-WoW style game. But it can also be different. There is a difference between characters and clichés. A priest can be an unhelpful person. Or maybe sometimes be unhelpful depending on circumstances or mood. Maybe he doesn't like dwarves, or gets cranky when he has had some ale. Not every thief is either robin hood or a complete lootwhore. There are more then one ways that a specific archetype can be played. Basically, this tends to creep up in beginner rounds, from both sides. First there is people using their characters as an extension of what they want from a pure powergaming perspective. And then there are people telling them "no, you can't do X, a paladin would never do X!" and judging it as bad roleplaying. But usually, the narrower your definitions are, the less interesting the game gets. If there is only one way a player can have his character act without it getting labelled as bad roleplaying, then you don't have an interactive experience and you might as well read a book. Those tend to have much better linear stories. The best solution is to find people who play similar to what you enjoy, because after all it is still a game (for most people who don't stream). Don't try to force people to play the way you like, and especially don't tell everyone that that is the only true way to play and everything else is bad roleplaying. Post again after you watch the show. The cleric character was established as healing people around town and being useful so the village helped keep his abilities secret. Presumably Gen had some input in what character to create and how to characterize him. Not healing JP came completely out of left field. Recognize that Gen is Gen, I'm not about to play full on psychoanalyst but c'mon. She just got a new character and might not be completely aware of her abilities. You watched the show - do you remember when Geoff goes to stop the bleeding from JP? Gen does the same and is baffled when she fails the roll saying, "But I'm a cleric how do I fail healing?" She doesn't know what she's doing yet and that's very fair.. relax, I doubt she'll be doing this as time goes by - she wanted nothing but to help when on abi and that was really enjoyable to watch. Her blundering around as Gen is also enjoyable if you let it be Man, I remember when she went and tried to save Ryan with her own two hands coming out of the sky 70ft above her. That was gold. She'll be helpful, just give her time to understand what she can/can't do lol
Yes, Gen is Gen. And I think she should choose characters she can really empathise with and get into the role of. It's jarring to see her act like Abigael on a character that was introduced as something very different.
Saying "she wanted nothing but to help when on abi" is unfathomably bizarre for me to see. Did we watch the same show? She stole all the loot for herself and wouldn't even LEND money to party members without insisting on charging interest.
On January 08 2014 06:13 plated.rawr wrote:
Oh, you kids and your backseating. This is why I never enjoy having an "audience" while playing. Realise that it's the player, and the player alone, that plays their character. Anything else is irrelevant.
And it's the viewer and the viewer alone that decides what behaviour really ruins their enjoyment of the show.
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Woah, woah, guys, slow down. I don't see anybody blaming and making personal attacks against Ryan and Neal! Quickly, somebody get on that. Everybody on the show needs to be blamed!
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Blamed for what? I'm trying to discuss the show not some petty drama.
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EPT
