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On August 06 2013 08:36 gh0un wrote:
Im tired of this passive agressive back and forth so I will just say that I do enjoy the show.
This does not mean that I will always agree with what the dm does (or the players for that matter), and it also doesn't mean that I will never criticize a show I like.
If you cannot deal with criticizm thats fine but disregarding everything I say with a "people like you" statement is kinda rude.
Whoa whoa man, you are the one who started this off with your own rude remarks. Don't get me wrong, its not at all that your points are't valid, but that the way you stated your opinion was insulting toward Neal. Whether you meant to or not, you stated your opinion in a way that was condescending and inflammatory. You insinuated that he doesn't run the campaign a certain way because of a personal flaw ("he doesn't have the guts"). I'm sure Neal doesn't give a shit, cause he's cool like that but many people in this community get a little defensive when a random poster who has contributed nothing of notable value comes in and starts trash talking someone who has contributed a great deal of time and effort to a project like this. If your intention was not to deride Neal, then the fault is on you for being careless with the way you stated your opinions, not on those who have responded to the way your post was written.
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On August 06 2013 09:24 gh0un wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2013 09:13 SheaR619 wrote:
I love how Banon died. His story was pretty much dead with the destruction of the boots so he really didnt have a purpose left. I think what he did with the ring was genius and played true to his character of being a black neutral evil character. Either way, love that JP decided to do that and started a new character as well. Yeah it was good. Only sad part is that he didn't try to escape with the ring while invis, would have loved to see how that would have turned out. You could literally see how banon was struggling with himself about whether he should just run away with the ring and leave the party behind, or if he should help them first and then try to make a run for it. At the same time Jp was struggling whether he should metagame it or not, which was also hilarious.
Well I think he wanted to make sure it was THE ring. After Zeala didnt turn into a dragon, he started having doubt if the ring was probably real so he decided to wait and see the out come of the fight but by then he kinda screw him self anyway of escaping after his lie failed lol.
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On August 06 2013 08:43 KadaverBB wrote:Man, the amount of trashtalk livinpink has to endure from the twitch chat 
Also the youtube comments.
Up until week 17 or so it's all "OMG She's so terrible!", "SO STUPID", "what the fuck they should get rid of her"
god... people really like being pissed off
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On August 06 2013 12:14 AntiGrav1ty wrote:
It is only natural that a lot of viewers find it unrealistic and call DM-pampering when they get away with what they do all the time. It is not a one-time unbelievable escape, it's the way they handle all their encounters. They don't try much else than going for the kill. Even after the few close encounters they had due to just blindly going into danger they haven't changed much about that playstyle.
They have improved compared to the first weeks but as you said they still play like a completely inexperienced team. After 24 weeks of roleplaying you should expect more out of them. If the DM doesn't punish highly imprudent play then they will continue doing it without improving.
Their goal is to entertain and to have fun themselves, not min-max and power-game their way through the entire experience, which is perfectly fine. Therefore, the mindset of the players is to rely on Neal for information on mechanics and thus don't care to learn it well themselves. More importantly, they are still only playing or doing something related to a D&D game 3-4 hours a week, without any hardcore D&D experience beforehand, or any prolonged study of the D&D 2.5 system throughout the weeks.
It should be obvious to anyone that no matter what activity, if a normal person only does it 3-4 hours a week in one block of time, and do completely unrelated things outside of that block of time, progress in terms of memorizing and understanding the mechanics of the activity is going to be slow or almost non-existent. Factor in the fact that they don't care about the mechanics much in the first place, and we're going to get what we have right now. I really don't see the problem, since Neal can compensate for most or all of the shortcomings. Again, as some have pointed out, this isn't a competitive endeavor. They can rely on Neal for gaps of knowledge without improving much, and that should be fine for all viewers who aren't looking to wave their own e-peen around on how hardcore/knowledgeable they are in D&D.
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On August 06 2013 21:41 Qaatar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2013 12:14 AntiGrav1ty wrote:
It is only natural that a lot of viewers find it unrealistic and call DM-pampering when they get away with what they do all the time. It is not a one-time unbelievable escape, it's the way they handle all their encounters. They don't try much else than going for the kill. Even after the few close encounters they had due to just blindly going into danger they haven't changed much about that playstyle.
They have improved compared to the first weeks but as you said they still play like a completely inexperienced team. After 24 weeks of roleplaying you should expect more out of them. If the DM doesn't punish highly imprudent play then they will continue doing it without improving. Their goal is to entertain and to have fun themselves.
Which is why the DM is letting them get away with pretty big mistakes.
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On August 06 2013 22:07 gh0un wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2013 21:41 Qaatar wrote:On August 06 2013 12:14 AntiGrav1ty wrote:
It is only natural that a lot of viewers find it unrealistic and call DM-pampering when they get away with what they do all the time. It is not a one-time unbelievable escape, it's the way they handle all their encounters. They don't try much else than going for the kill. Even after the few close encounters they had due to just blindly going into danger they haven't changed much about that playstyle.
They have improved compared to the first weeks but as you said they still play like a completely inexperienced team. After 24 weeks of roleplaying you should expect more out of them. If the DM doesn't punish highly imprudent play then they will continue doing it without improving. Their goal is to entertain and to have fun themselves. Which is why the DM is letting them get away with pretty big mistakes.
What's your point? My entire post was partially explaining why the mistakes happen. Can I infer that yours is, they shouldn't happen?
Edit: and more importantly, my post was to partially explain why it's okay for those mistakes to happen.
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On August 06 2013 22:07 gh0un wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2013 21:41 Qaatar wrote:On August 06 2013 12:14 AntiGrav1ty wrote:
It is only natural that a lot of viewers find it unrealistic and call DM-pampering when they get away with what they do all the time. It is not a one-time unbelievable escape, it's the way they handle all their encounters. They don't try much else than going for the kill. Even after the few close encounters they had due to just blindly going into danger they haven't changed much about that playstyle.
They have improved compared to the first weeks but as you said they still play like a completely inexperienced team. After 24 weeks of roleplaying you should expect more out of them. If the DM doesn't punish highly imprudent play then they will continue doing it without improving. Their goal is to entertain and to have fun themselves. Which is why the DM is letting them get away with pretty big mistakes.
This is where your line of reasoning is bad to me. The DM's job is not to punish players for less-than-perfect actions/ideas. Entertainment/fun should be the goal of any DnD group. If the DM is being absolutely cut-throat in their action it would create an incredibly boring game where players are forced to spend hours arguing over minutia and getting every bit of detail out of a situation asking 1000 questions because 1 slip up means death. That'd be boring for the players, the dm, and the viewers.
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On August 07 2013 03:42 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2013 22:07 gh0un wrote:On August 06 2013 21:41 Qaatar wrote:On August 06 2013 12:14 AntiGrav1ty wrote:
It is only natural that a lot of viewers find it unrealistic and call DM-pampering when they get away with what they do all the time. It is not a one-time unbelievable escape, it's the way they handle all their encounters. They don't try much else than going for the kill. Even after the few close encounters they had due to just blindly going into danger they haven't changed much about that playstyle.
They have improved compared to the first weeks but as you said they still play like a completely inexperienced team. After 24 weeks of roleplaying you should expect more out of them. If the DM doesn't punish highly imprudent play then they will continue doing it without improving. Their goal is to entertain and to have fun themselves. Which is why the DM is letting them get away with pretty big mistakes. This is where your line of reasoning is bad to me. The DM's job is not to punish players for less-than-perfect actions/ideas. Entertainment/fun should be the goal of any DnD group. If the DM is being absolutely cut-throat in their action it would create an incredibly boring game where players are forced to spend hours arguing over minutia and getting every bit of detail out of a situation asking 1000 questions because 1 slip up means death. That'd be boring for the players, the dm, and the viewers.
It not just that, but they are casual DnD group, especially Abigael and Bregor. Vincent and JP are always very creative with their decision and utilizing their ability. Vincent with his sharp tongue and JP with his creative usage of his ability and playing true to his character. Abigael decision sometime are rather ridiculous that seem rather silly which kinda lead to Vincent messing around with her but she has gotten much better at it from when they first started the game. Bregor also tend to be rather absent minded sometime and spacing out. Hence the time when he tried to open the door to the king crypt and when he somehow thought there was a Bow in the treasure room in the crypt. This does lead to pretty funny moment so I dont really mind.
Either way, to make the group enjoy DnD, the Dungeon master must adjust to their lvl and ensure that everyone is happy. I think Neal is doing fine because these guy are not all elite hardcore pro DnD player so there is no need to be very strict on everything. As everyone get better at the game, the DM can decide to adjust according to their lvl.
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On August 07 2013 08:17 SheaR619 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2013 03:42 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 06 2013 22:07 gh0un wrote:On August 06 2013 21:41 Qaatar wrote:On August 06 2013 12:14 AntiGrav1ty wrote:
It is only natural that a lot of viewers find it unrealistic and call DM-pampering when they get away with what they do all the time. It is not a one-time unbelievable escape, it's the way they handle all their encounters. They don't try much else than going for the kill. Even after the few close encounters they had due to just blindly going into danger they haven't changed much about that playstyle.
They have improved compared to the first weeks but as you said they still play like a completely inexperienced team. After 24 weeks of roleplaying you should expect more out of them. If the DM doesn't punish highly imprudent play then they will continue doing it without improving. Their goal is to entertain and to have fun themselves. Which is why the DM is letting them get away with pretty big mistakes. This is where your line of reasoning is bad to me. The DM's job is not to punish players for less-than-perfect actions/ideas. Entertainment/fun should be the goal of any DnD group. If the DM is being absolutely cut-throat in their action it would create an incredibly boring game where players are forced to spend hours arguing over minutia and getting every bit of detail out of a situation asking 1000 questions because 1 slip up means death. That'd be boring for the players, the dm, and the viewers. It not just that, but they are casual DnD group, especially Abigael and Bregor. Vincent and JP are always very creative with their decision and utilizing their ability. Vincent with his sharp tongue and JP with his creative usage of his ability and playing true to his character. Abigael decision sometime are rather ridiculous that seem rather silly which kinda lead to Vincent messing around with her but she has gotten much better at it from when they first started the game. Bregor also tend to be rather absent minded sometime and spacing out. Hence the time when he tried to open the door to the king crypt and when he somehow thought there was a Bow in the treasure room in the crypt. This does lead to pretty funny moment so I dont really mind. Either way, to make the group enjoy DnD, the Dungeon master must adjust to their lvl and ensure that everyone is happy. I think Neal is doing fine because these guy are not all elite hardcore pro DnD player so there is no need to be very strict on everything. As everyone get better at the game, the DM can decide to adjust according to their lvl.
Just an FYI Ryan plays his character like that on purpose (the passiveness) also, he was joking about the bow in the room. Geoff and JP have more dominating personalities so it's obvious to see more of them in the RPing aspect of the game. Also the world shits on Gen for whatever she does, no matter if she came up with the idea or not it's always OMG META OMG DUMB! People are getting kind of pathetic.
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On August 07 2013 08:46 Daogin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2013 08:17 SheaR619 wrote:On August 07 2013 03:42 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 06 2013 22:07 gh0un wrote:On August 06 2013 21:41 Qaatar wrote:On August 06 2013 12:14 AntiGrav1ty wrote:
It is only natural that a lot of viewers find it unrealistic and call DM-pampering when they get away with what they do all the time. It is not a one-time unbelievable escape, it's the way they handle all their encounters. They don't try much else than going for the kill. Even after the few close encounters they had due to just blindly going into danger they haven't changed much about that playstyle.
They have improved compared to the first weeks but as you said they still play like a completely inexperienced team. After 24 weeks of roleplaying you should expect more out of them. If the DM doesn't punish highly imprudent play then they will continue doing it without improving. Their goal is to entertain and to have fun themselves. Which is why the DM is letting them get away with pretty big mistakes. This is where your line of reasoning is bad to me. The DM's job is not to punish players for less-than-perfect actions/ideas. Entertainment/fun should be the goal of any DnD group. If the DM is being absolutely cut-throat in their action it would create an incredibly boring game where players are forced to spend hours arguing over minutia and getting every bit of detail out of a situation asking 1000 questions because 1 slip up means death. That'd be boring for the players, the dm, and the viewers. It not just that, but they are casual DnD group, especially Abigael and Bregor. Vincent and JP are always very creative with their decision and utilizing their ability. Vincent with his sharp tongue and JP with his creative usage of his ability and playing true to his character. Abigael decision sometime are rather ridiculous that seem rather silly which kinda lead to Vincent messing around with her but she has gotten much better at it from when they first started the game. Bregor also tend to be rather absent minded sometime and spacing out. Hence the time when he tried to open the door to the king crypt and when he somehow thought there was a Bow in the treasure room in the crypt. This does lead to pretty funny moment so I dont really mind. Either way, to make the group enjoy DnD, the Dungeon master must adjust to their lvl and ensure that everyone is happy. I think Neal is doing fine because these guy are not all elite hardcore pro DnD player so there is no need to be very strict on everything. As everyone get better at the game, the DM can decide to adjust according to their lvl. Just an FYI Ryan plays his character like that on purpose (the passiveness) also, he was joking about the bow in the room. Geoff and JP have more dominating personalities so it's obvious to see more of them in the RPing aspect of the game. Also the world shits on Gen for whatever she does, no matter if she came up with the idea or not it's always OMG META OMG DUMB! People are getting kind of pathetic.
I agree I dont understand all the hate for Gen. I think a few pages back someone was accusing Gen of meta gaming because she thought of the idea of leading the Slug outside when it was a very simple and obvious strategy that anyone could of came up with. Regarding the Ring thingy, I believe her on that one. Either way, they should consider playing with no chat so no more stupid meta gaming accusation can stop
EDITED:
I meant, "Either way, they should consider playing with no chat so there wont be any more stupid scenario of people accusing each other of reading chat anyways."
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On August 07 2013 09:06 SheaR619 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2013 08:46 Daogin wrote:On August 07 2013 08:17 SheaR619 wrote:On August 07 2013 03:42 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 06 2013 22:07 gh0un wrote:On August 06 2013 21:41 Qaatar wrote:On August 06 2013 12:14 AntiGrav1ty wrote:
It is only natural that a lot of viewers find it unrealistic and call DM-pampering when they get away with what they do all the time. It is not a one-time unbelievable escape, it's the way they handle all their encounters. They don't try much else than going for the kill. Even after the few close encounters they had due to just blindly going into danger they haven't changed much about that playstyle.
They have improved compared to the first weeks but as you said they still play like a completely inexperienced team. After 24 weeks of roleplaying you should expect more out of them. If the DM doesn't punish highly imprudent play then they will continue doing it without improving. Their goal is to entertain and to have fun themselves. Which is why the DM is letting them get away with pretty big mistakes. This is where your line of reasoning is bad to me. The DM's job is not to punish players for less-than-perfect actions/ideas. Entertainment/fun should be the goal of any DnD group. If the DM is being absolutely cut-throat in their action it would create an incredibly boring game where players are forced to spend hours arguing over minutia and getting every bit of detail out of a situation asking 1000 questions because 1 slip up means death. That'd be boring for the players, the dm, and the viewers. It not just that, but they are casual DnD group, especially Abigael and Bregor. Vincent and JP are always very creative with their decision and utilizing their ability. Vincent with his sharp tongue and JP with his creative usage of his ability and playing true to his character. Abigael decision sometime are rather ridiculous that seem rather silly which kinda lead to Vincent messing around with her but she has gotten much better at it from when they first started the game. Bregor also tend to be rather absent minded sometime and spacing out. Hence the time when he tried to open the door to the king crypt and when he somehow thought there was a Bow in the treasure room in the crypt. This does lead to pretty funny moment so I dont really mind. Either way, to make the group enjoy DnD, the Dungeon master must adjust to their lvl and ensure that everyone is happy. I think Neal is doing fine because these guy are not all elite hardcore pro DnD player so there is no need to be very strict on everything. As everyone get better at the game, the DM can decide to adjust according to their lvl. Just an FYI Ryan plays his character like that on purpose (the passiveness) also, he was joking about the bow in the room. Geoff and JP have more dominating personalities so it's obvious to see more of them in the RPing aspect of the game. Also the world shits on Gen for whatever she does, no matter if she came up with the idea or not it's always OMG META OMG DUMB! People are getting kind of pathetic. I agree I dont understand all the hate for Gen. I think a few pages back someone was accusing Gen of meta gaming because she thought of the idea of leading the Slug outside when it was a very simple and obvious strategy that anyone could of came up with. Regarding the Ring thingy, I believe her on that one. Either way, they should consider playing with no chat so no more stupid meta gaming accusation can stop
That would make sense, but I doubt that everyone flinging such accusations and invective are so rooted in logic.
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On August 06 2013 20:19 FliedLice wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2013 08:43 KadaverBB wrote:Man, the amount of trashtalk livinpink has to endure from the twitch chat Also the youtube comments. Up until week 17 or so it's all "OMG She's so terrible!", "SO STUPID", "what the fuck they should get rid of her" god... people really like being pissed off
Which is ironic since she is the smartest person on the game, the problem is that she is not exactly fluent in english and can't really express herself, that's why she end up doing the same stuff over and over again.
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On August 07 2013 03:42 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2013 22:07 gh0un wrote:On August 06 2013 21:41 Qaatar wrote:On August 06 2013 12:14 AntiGrav1ty wrote:
It is only natural that a lot of viewers find it unrealistic and call DM-pampering when they get away with what they do all the time. It is not a one-time unbelievable escape, it's the way they handle all their encounters. They don't try much else than going for the kill. Even after the few close encounters they had due to just blindly going into danger they haven't changed much about that playstyle.
They have improved compared to the first weeks but as you said they still play like a completely inexperienced team. After 24 weeks of roleplaying you should expect more out of them. If the DM doesn't punish highly imprudent play then they will continue doing it without improving. Their goal is to entertain and to have fun themselves. Which is why the DM is letting them get away with pretty big mistakes. This is where your line of reasoning is bad to me. The DM's job is not to punish players for less-than-perfect actions/ideas. Entertainment/fun should be the goal of any DnD group. If the DM is being absolutely cut-throat in their action it would create an incredibly boring game where players are forced to spend hours arguing over minutia and getting every bit of detail out of a situation asking 1000 questions because 1 slip up means death. That'd be boring for the players, the dm, and the viewers.
Dont know about you man, but last time i checked neal forced vincent to explain exactly how he wanted to carry the plate mails on the horses.
Thats basically the embodiment of "getting every bit of detail out of a situation" and still it was a very enjoyable bit of gameplay.
Neal is being cutt-throat pretty much all the time (sometimes to the point where geoff starts making fun of it, remember the "neal i am lowering it, lowering it, lowering it" scene?), except when it comes to REALLY punishing the players for doing evil deeds, so your argument doesnt hold much water.
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waiting for good adventurer party to hunt them down. at this point they really are quite evil and people should be able to track em down.
and dunno why so many people are so angry in here. let them have fun and have fun watching them having fun. if you have to flame the guys and disagree on evrything... dont watch?
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On August 07 2013 23:01 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:
waiting for good adventurer party to hunt them down. at this point they really are quite evil and people should be able to track em down.
and dunno why so many people are so angry in here. let them have fun and have fun watching them having fun. if you have to flame the guys and disagree on evrything... dont watch?
or don't post ;p but I agree it will be interesting if they get bounties on their heads or something.
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haha yes, and we need wanted posters fanart : D
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On August 07 2013 20:46 gh0un wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2013 03:42 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 06 2013 22:07 gh0un wrote:On August 06 2013 21:41 Qaatar wrote:On August 06 2013 12:14 AntiGrav1ty wrote:
It is only natural that a lot of viewers find it unrealistic and call DM-pampering when they get away with what they do all the time. It is not a one-time unbelievable escape, it's the way they handle all their encounters. They don't try much else than going for the kill. Even after the few close encounters they had due to just blindly going into danger they haven't changed much about that playstyle.
They have improved compared to the first weeks but as you said they still play like a completely inexperienced team. After 24 weeks of roleplaying you should expect more out of them. If the DM doesn't punish highly imprudent play then they will continue doing it without improving. Their goal is to entertain and to have fun themselves. Which is why the DM is letting them get away with pretty big mistakes. This is where your line of reasoning is bad to me. The DM's job is not to punish players for less-than-perfect actions/ideas. Entertainment/fun should be the goal of any DnD group. If the DM is being absolutely cut-throat in their action it would create an incredibly boring game where players are forced to spend hours arguing over minutia and getting every bit of detail out of a situation asking 1000 questions because 1 slip up means death. That'd be boring for the players, the dm, and the viewers. Dont know about you man, but last time i checked neal forced vincent to explain exactly how he wanted to carry the plate mails on the horses. Thats basically the embodiment of "getting every bit of detail out of a situation" and still it was a very enjoyable bit of gameplay. Neal is being cutt-throat pretty much all the time (sometimes to the point where geoff starts making fun of it, remember the "neal i am lowering it, lowering it, lowering it" scene?), except when it comes to REALLY punishing the players for doing evil deeds, so your argument doesnt hold much water.
So your basic rebuttle is that because Neal questions their actions from time to time that means he's being cut-throat? No, that means he's trying to keep things at least some-what realistic. The scene with the armor is actually a great example of what the DM should do. Granted it took him a little longer to understand what Geoff was saying, but taking into account how he'll actually accomplish a goal is important. Neal doesn't even get bogged down in minutia, he occasionally has to enforce the rules when the players complain about not being able to do what they want... but that's supposed to happen. They can try to rationalize the way they do something, but it still has to follow the rules (for the most part) and make tactical/common sense.
Maybe I'm all wrong, maybe your DM isn't cut throat; maybe the players are just really, really bad at combat. If you have a player dying in your party every couple of weeks and then somehow attempt to turn this around to saying Neal is a cut throat DM I'm just not sure what to tell you. What's even more confusing is that this whole thing started several pages ago by basically saying Neal was the opposite of cut throat, so I'm not even sure what you're doing here anymore.
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On August 08 2013 03:46 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2013 20:46 gh0un wrote:On August 07 2013 03:42 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 06 2013 22:07 gh0un wrote:On August 06 2013 21:41 Qaatar wrote:On August 06 2013 12:14 AntiGrav1ty wrote:
It is only natural that a lot of viewers find it unrealistic and call DM-pampering when they get away with what they do all the time. It is not a one-time unbelievable escape, it's the way they handle all their encounters. They don't try much else than going for the kill. Even after the few close encounters they had due to just blindly going into danger they haven't changed much about that playstyle.
They have improved compared to the first weeks but as you said they still play like a completely inexperienced team. After 24 weeks of roleplaying you should expect more out of them. If the DM doesn't punish highly imprudent play then they will continue doing it without improving. Their goal is to entertain and to have fun themselves. Which is why the DM is letting them get away with pretty big mistakes. This is where your line of reasoning is bad to me. The DM's job is not to punish players for less-than-perfect actions/ideas. Entertainment/fun should be the goal of any DnD group. If the DM is being absolutely cut-throat in their action it would create an incredibly boring game where players are forced to spend hours arguing over minutia and getting every bit of detail out of a situation asking 1000 questions because 1 slip up means death. That'd be boring for the players, the dm, and the viewers. Dont know about you man, but last time i checked neal forced vincent to explain exactly how he wanted to carry the plate mails on the horses. Thats basically the embodiment of "getting every bit of detail out of a situation" and still it was a very enjoyable bit of gameplay. Neal is being cutt-throat pretty much all the time (sometimes to the point where geoff starts making fun of it, remember the "neal i am lowering it, lowering it, lowering it" scene?), except when it comes to REALLY punishing the players for doing evil deeds, so your argument doesnt hold much water. So your basic rebuttle is that because Neal questions their actions from time to time that means he's being cut-throat? No, that means he's trying to keep things at least some-what realistic. The scene with the armor is actually a great example of what the DM should do. Granted it took him a little longer to understand what Geoff was saying, but taking into account how he'll actually accomplish a goal is important. Neal doesn't even get bogged down in minutia, he occasionally has to enforce the rules when the players complain about not being able to do what they want... but that's supposed to happen. They can try to rationalize the way they do something, but it still has to follow the rules (for the most part) and make tactical/common sense. Maybe I'm all wrong, maybe your DM isn't cut throat; maybe the players are just really, really bad at combat. If you have a player dying in your party every couple of weeks and then somehow attempt to turn this around to saying Neal is a cut throat DM I'm just not sure what to tell you. What's even more confusing is that this whole thing started several pages ago by basically saying Neal was the opposite of cut throat, so I'm not even sure what you're doing here anymore.
You are lacking reading comprehension and you are trying to whiteknight this no matter what i say, thats why you dont understand what im saying.
I will just quote myself because you are apparently not capable of reading a post properly.
Neal is being cutt-throat pretty much all the time (sometimes to the point where geoff starts making fun of it, remember the "neal i am lowering it, lowering it, lowering it" scene?), except when it comes to REALLY punishing the players for doing evil deeds, so your argument doesnt hold much water.
Now look at your own post and scratch your head about why you even wrote that down:
On August 08 2013 03:46 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
What's even more confusing is that this whole thing started several pages ago by basically saying Neal was the opposite of cut throat, so I'm not even sure what you're doing here anymore.
He is pampering them when it comes to punishment for evil doings. Deal with it.
No my party doesnt die every session. They arent doing an evil deed every 2-3 weeks either.
As you yourself pointed out, that means he's trying to keep things at least some-what realistic he is trying to keep things realistic.
Getting away after killing the alchemist, lord feng, the paladin, the holy guards, and a bunch of other innocent people (there are still quite some of which i dont remember the name of) is not realistic.
They never really faced the consequences for their evil doings, unless you want to count a mere slap on the hand by neal a real punishment. The best one out of those was still the alchemist with tudagub landing in jail, but ever since then the realism is heavily lacking.
They are comitting crimes left and right and the only punishment they get is a single guard circling around the camp.
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On August 08 2013 04:15 gh0un wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 03:46 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 07 2013 20:46 gh0un wrote:On August 07 2013 03:42 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 06 2013 22:07 gh0un wrote:On August 06 2013 21:41 Qaatar wrote:On August 06 2013 12:14 AntiGrav1ty wrote:
It is only natural that a lot of viewers find it unrealistic and call DM-pampering when they get away with what they do all the time. It is not a one-time unbelievable escape, it's the way they handle all their encounters. They don't try much else than going for the kill. Even after the few close encounters they had due to just blindly going into danger they haven't changed much about that playstyle.
They have improved compared to the first weeks but as you said they still play like a completely inexperienced team. After 24 weeks of roleplaying you should expect more out of them. If the DM doesn't punish highly imprudent play then they will continue doing it without improving. Their goal is to entertain and to have fun themselves. Which is why the DM is letting them get away with pretty big mistakes. This is where your line of reasoning is bad to me. The DM's job is not to punish players for less-than-perfect actions/ideas. Entertainment/fun should be the goal of any DnD group. If the DM is being absolutely cut-throat in their action it would create an incredibly boring game where players are forced to spend hours arguing over minutia and getting every bit of detail out of a situation asking 1000 questions because 1 slip up means death. That'd be boring for the players, the dm, and the viewers. Dont know about you man, but last time i checked neal forced vincent to explain exactly how he wanted to carry the plate mails on the horses. Thats basically the embodiment of "getting every bit of detail out of a situation" and still it was a very enjoyable bit of gameplay. Neal is being cutt-throat pretty much all the time (sometimes to the point where geoff starts making fun of it, remember the "neal i am lowering it, lowering it, lowering it" scene?), except when it comes to REALLY punishing the players for doing evil deeds, so your argument doesnt hold much water. So your basic rebuttle is that because Neal questions their actions from time to time that means he's being cut-throat? No, that means he's trying to keep things at least some-what realistic. The scene with the armor is actually a great example of what the DM should do. Granted it took him a little longer to understand what Geoff was saying, but taking into account how he'll actually accomplish a goal is important. Neal doesn't even get bogged down in minutia, he occasionally has to enforce the rules when the players complain about not being able to do what they want... but that's supposed to happen. They can try to rationalize the way they do something, but it still has to follow the rules (for the most part) and make tactical/common sense. Maybe I'm all wrong, maybe your DM isn't cut throat; maybe the players are just really, really bad at combat. If you have a player dying in your party every couple of weeks and then somehow attempt to turn this around to saying Neal is a cut throat DM I'm just not sure what to tell you. What's even more confusing is that this whole thing started several pages ago by basically saying Neal was the opposite of cut throat, so I'm not even sure what you're doing here anymore. You are lacking reading comprehension and you are trying to whiteknight this no matter what i say, thats why you dont understand what im saying. I will just quote myself because you are apparently not capable of reading a post properly. Show nested quote +Neal is being cutt-throat pretty much all the time (sometimes to the point where geoff starts making fun of it, remember the "neal i am lowering it, lowering it, lowering it" scene?), except when it comes to REALLY punishing the players for doing evil deeds, so your argument doesnt hold much water. Now look at your own post and scratch your head about why you even wrote that down: Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 03:46 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
What's even more confusing is that this whole thing started several pages ago by basically saying Neal was the opposite of cut throat, so I'm not even sure what you're doing here anymore. He is pampering them when it comes to punishment for evil doings. Deal with it. No my party doesnt die every session. They arent doing an evil deed every 2-3 weeks either. As you yourself pointed out, he is trying to keep things realistic. Getting away after killing the alchemist, lord feng, the paladin, the holy guards, and a bunch of other innocent people (there are still quite some of which i dont remember the name of) is not realistic. They never really faced the consequences for their evil doings, unless you want to count a mere slap on the hand by neal a real punishment. The best one out of those was still the alchemist with tudagub landing in jail, but ever since then the realism is heavily lacking. They are comitting crimes left and right and the only punishment they get is a single guard circling around the camp.
But think about it as the world they are in, they killed the alch. then were punished for it during that they broke free and killed lord feng and then were not allowed in a few towns and were looked down upon for it. (Then did a bunch of good deeds and were pardoned for it)
They killed the paladin and then were smart and blamed it on the wraith (which is realistic in their world), the holy guards well they killed all of the "witnesses" and it was in a secluded area in a "time" with very limited ways for news to travel.
Also describing people (without a half orge in the party) usually wont get you far because saying "four people 2 humans and 2 elves with armor and stuff killed people" and then people see a part of 4 people (3 elves and a human) and then 6 (3 elves 2 humans and a dwarf) doesn't meet this description so by saying he needs to punish them is a unrealistic request.
They never really faced the consequences for their evil doings, unless you want to count a mere slap on the hand by neal a real punishment.
So this is a wrong statement
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On August 08 2013 04:15 gh0un wrote:
Getting away after killing the alchemist, lord feng, the paladin, the holy guards, and a bunch of other innocent people (there are still quite some of which i dont remember the name of) is not realistic.
They never really faced the consequences for their evil doings, unless you want to count a mere slap on the hand by neal a real punishment. The best one out of those was still the alchemist with tudagub landing in jail, but ever since then the realism is heavily lacking.
They are comitting crimes left and right and the only punishment they get is a single guard circling around the camp.
what are you even talking about? they've been apprehended for their crimes multiple times and have fought/talked their way out every single time. they're also moving to new regions constantly, which is the best thing to do in a world that seems to be composed of feudal or regional lords with little authority outside their jurisdiction, where the two biggest powers we know of are too busy warring with each other (and based on the last session, maybe dalamar as well) to draw up regulator posses or whatever variant you want.
I really don't think you understand how ridiculous your language is, because I know that eventually you're going to default back to saying it's just your opinion maaaaaaaaaaaan. when you accuse neal of "pampering" in a campaign where the party has been tried twice, killed two lords and defeated a pursuing party of avengers like you said you wanted, you look like you aren't paying attention at best and that you have a personal axe to grind at worst.
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