EPTRollPlay -- D&D Campaign Show - Page 108
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
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gh0un
601 Posts
On August 06 2013 04:18 iNcontroL wrote: really funny reading some comments here.. giving neal crap for not "having the guts to kill the team" On what level does that even remotely read as an intelligent comment? We are all DnD beginners (save for neal) and this is a show we put on that is story driven and character driven.. you literally destroy both those things when you prioritize "killing the party." I've been around for a long time and it continues to baffle me when people look at a good thing and go "well that is STUPID I'd do it much better with my 0 experience and lack of knowledge!" when it comes to content. Our party is mortal.. people DO and have died. Neal makes some things "hard" relative to our skill and easy / normal for the sake of the story etc. If you don't enjoy it then please stop torturing yourself and annoying us.. move along and go watch something you like. PS: Or at the very least learn to word things without odd judgement like "if he has the guts" wtf Exactly you pretty much just proved my point. You are putting out content with this show, which is exactly why Neal is reluctant to kill the party off. Someone asked what exactly could kill the party at this point and I pretty much only pointed out that Neal could kill the party with very basic encounters if he so desired. I didn't mean for it to be taken as crap and I didn't say that it would be more enjoyable if Neal was to constantly kill the party. Neal is afraid of killing off the party due to the repercussions it could have on the show and you pretty much confirmed this, so don't get upset if someone points this out, it makes you look hypocritical. Whether it is more enjoyable or not is for each individual viewer to decide, not for me. I am just pointing out why he is not doing it and thats pretty much it. If he had the guts to do something that could potentially kill the show, he would have killed you off when you went into the camp. That doesn't mean that I didn't enjoy the actual outcome though. | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
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Velr
Switzerland10921 Posts
Why not just set up a trap every few feet that can kill them or just exploit some fault they made in character creation... You sleep outside, too bad you suck at pathfinding/reading tracks, there is a huge pack of wolves/bears/lizards/whatever living right next in that cave you didn't spot... Thereyoudie. I'm sure that would be SO fun... As long as there is a certain danger to the chars it's fine if the encounters are "objectively" easy. I mean, you for sure can make the fights exciting. But that requires all players having (tons) of knowledge about every kind of enemy and leads to powergaming. If i want to do that personally, i just start some CRPG. | ||
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Disengaged
United States6994 Posts
I personally enjoy what everyone is doing. I also understand why Neal would be reluctant in killing off the party because it would pretty much end the current story and we would have to start a new story with brand new characters without even having finished this story to begin with(Sorry I'm a D&D noob so I don't know if thats how it works). Just think about it. They've come this far with the story already and it'd make sense to have at least 1 original character see it through. I also believe the farther they go into the story the much more we become invested with those characters more then we already are. So when or if they get killed the impact would be that more powerful. Also, Geoff, don't let them get to you. The most vocal people usually tend to be the negative ones. Keep doing what you do and don't ever change for anyone <3 | ||
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gh0un
601 Posts
On August 06 2013 07:45 iNcontroL wrote: No.. I confirmed that the point of the show/game isn't to kill us and thus it isn't the primary objective of the DM. He has said over and over again that he thought we'd die at X point or that he was surprised we got out of X situation.. it gets boring when people like you call him a liar and put words in my mouth trying to justify your own theories. To this I will then answer that I never made the point that the show is about killing the party , now you are the one putting words in my mouth. I said that the guards not thinking about abigael returning was a bad excuse. A bad excuse to let you guys live and thats my opinion. Neither you or Neal are gonna change that opinion, especially not if you get so offended about it. And to anyone that is arguing that they are still beginners, just no. At this point they have about 100 hours invested into dnd and they got much better than early on. They try to stick true to their characters, they try to not metagame (invisible banon with the ring but they know their characters wouldn't know that so they rollplay accordingly to the point of banon actually dying), they show a lot of signs of being capable dnders, so calling them beginners is just wrong. | ||
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Disengaged
United States6994 Posts
On August 06 2013 07:58 gh0un wrote: To this I will then answer that I never made the point that the show is about killing the party , now you are the one putting words in my mouth. I said that the guards not thinking about abigael returning was a bad excuse. A bad excuse to let you guys live and thats my opinion. Neither you or Neal are gonna change that opinion, especially not if you get so offended about it. And to anyone that is arguing that they are still beginners, just no. At this point they have about 100 hours invested into dnd and they got much better than early on. They try to stick true to their characters, they try to not metagame (invisible banon with the ring but they know their characters wouldn't know that so they rollplay accordingly to the point of banon actually dying), they show a lot of signs of being capable dnders, so calling them beginners is just wrong. Getting offended you say? You are the only one I see here that seems to be getting offended good sir | ||
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TheExile19
513 Posts
On August 06 2013 07:58 gh0un wrote: To this I will then answer that I never made the point that the show is about killing the party , now you are the one putting words in my mouth. I said that the guards not thinking about abigael returning was a bad excuse. A bad excuse to let you guys live and thats my opinion. Neither you or Neal are gonna change that opinion, especially not if you get so offended about it. And to anyone that is arguing that they are still beginners, just no. At this point they have about 100 hours invested into dnd and they got much better than early on. They try to stick true to their characters, they try to not metagame (invisible banon with the ring but they know their characters wouldn't know that so they rollplay accordingly to the point of banon actually dying), they show a lot of signs of being capable dnders, so calling them beginners is just wrong. I can't come to terms with the idea that you understand the appropriate pace of the campaign better than the DM in charge of it from session to session. I was considering going more in-depth, but everything about this tangent sucks so I'll limit it to noting that less than 5 sessions ago, the overall attitude of the party was outright terror of and during every fight because of giants, bad rolls and new wizard PCs. now that they've stabilized for one session and had one laughably easy/lucky scenario, the natural idea would be to do exactly what you're suggesting without: 1) the focus on PKs being some sort of natural feature - if they happen, they happen, but this is not a min/maxing party 2) your insulting implications about the players and the DM this is supposed to be light entertainment in the D&D vein, and it's quite possible that it's not for you. stop trying to goad people. | ||
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gh0un
601 Posts
This does not mean that I will always agree with what the dm does (or the players for that matter), and it also doesn't mean that I will never criticize a show I like. If you cannot deal with criticizm thats fine but disregarding everything I say with a "people like you" statement is kinda rude. | ||
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CobaltBlu
United States919 Posts
If someone's character was dying every other week I wouldn't care as much when someone's health got low or incapacitated anyway. | ||
KadaverBB
Germany25658 Posts
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gh0un
601 Posts
I explained how I would have done it and that, imo, Neal is going easy on them. Thats my opinion about it, and thats it. | ||
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SheaR619
United States2399 Posts
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gh0un
601 Posts
On August 06 2013 09:13 SheaR619 wrote: I love how Banon died. His story was pretty much dead with the destruction of the boots so he really didnt have a purpose left. I think what he did with the ring was genius and played true to his character of being a black neutral evil character. Either way, love that JP decided to do that and started a new character as well. Yeah it was good. Only sad part is that he didn't try to escape with the ring while invis, would have loved to see how that would have turned out. You could literally see how banon was struggling with himself about whether he should just run away with the ring and leave the party behind, or if he should help them first and then try to make a run for it. At the same time Jp was struggling whether he should metagame it or not, which was also hilarious. | ||
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theJob
272 Posts
On August 06 2013 08:46 gh0un wrote: When did I ever say that my way is the correct way? When did I say that there is a correct way to begin with? I didn't. I explained how I would have done it and that, imo, Neal is going easy on them. Thats my opinion about it, and thats it. Nobody is saying that Neal CAN'T make things harder, because that's a stupid argument to be had. Neal could've killed them off the first minute of the first episode and every minute in every episode after that, forever and ever. The point people are trying to make is that this is not the goal of the DM so why even argue about him not killing the party? | ||
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Brian333
657 Posts
On August 06 2013 07:58 gh0un wrote: To this I will then answer that I never made the point that the show is about killing the party , now you are the one putting words in my mouth. I said that the guards not thinking about abigael returning was a bad excuse. A bad excuse to let you guys live and thats my opinion. Neither you or Neal are gonna change that opinion, especially not if you get so offended about it. And to anyone that is arguing that they are still beginners, just no. At this point they have about 100 hours invested into dnd and they got much better than early on. They try to stick true to their characters, they try to not metagame (invisible banon with the ring but they know their characters wouldn't know that so they rollplay accordingly to the point of banon actually dying), they show a lot of signs of being capable dnders, so calling them beginners is just wrong. Except saying that Neal doesn't have the guts to kill the team is a stupid statement and that is what you were called out on. Saying that it's an issue of guts is saying that it's the decision that should've been made had Neal been braver. This is you pushing your idea of what is the right and wrong decision for a DM and what the direction of the show should be. It's not an issue of what takes guts and what does not when you do not know what Neal is thinking. Progressively using the word "imo" the deeper you dig does not mean you are not digging a deeper ditch. Saying someone lacks the guts to do something is not productive criticism. It's baiting and insulting. If you're just commenting that Neal is keeping the battles easy, then I agree. But, like it has been said, it is relative to player skill. You claim that they are not beginners but refer only to things that relate to RP, and not to battle and its mechanics. I agree that they're capable RPers, but this party is at a beginner level when it comes to combat and the related skills and tactics. They still need reminders what their +hit rolls are when a more experienced party could straight up calculate it themselves. They still need to be reminded what their damage is when a more experienced party would probably know the damage rolls for not only their own weapons, but for a lot of attacks. Abigael didn't actively try and position herself better / try and get back-attacks until more than halfway through the series and she still does not play her class well in / out of combat (example: trying to melee attack a closer range opponent instead of just throwing the weapon with a much better bonus to hit because they do not understand the basics of +hit modifiers). Bregor still constantly forgets that he can dual wield in combat and just rolls single long sword rolls when if he just pulled out a short sword / dagger, he would get free chances at extra damage. They didn't know that to hit certain enemies, you need +X weapons or better. They still don't really understand attacks of opportunity. They still just bull rush a lot of encounters. And so on. To any seasoned D&Der, it's obvious this is not a very experienced party when it comes to battle and the mechanics. They are clearly not min-maxing their classes. So, where do you turn for difficulty when you can't necessarily rely on combat? Conflicts in the story and in decisions characters make. To be honest, I think Neal has done a good job with this. Between the dynamic of dropping the party between different strong NPCs with different motives (Dalamar, Brightblade, Oris) and putting them in challenging situations that test their mind in other ways (Lord Feng's murder and the escape from the trial, Istavan's master plan, the inner debate and conflict with the ring), there has been plenty of challenging moments for the party. | ||
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AntiGrav1ty
Germany2310 Posts
They have improved compared to the first weeks but as you said they still play like a completely inexperienced team. After 24 weeks of roleplaying you should expect more out of them. If the DM doesn't punish highly imprudent play then they will continue doing it without improving. | ||
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EchOne
United States2906 Posts
Combat and mechanics are one possible avenue to fun. Others could be: a beautifully fleshed out world and setting. Intricate webs of plots and intrigues. Fantastic dramas. Foreign social mores. An empowering sense of agency in shaping a world. A sense of marvel in discovering a world. The creative adventure of acting out the life of someone else. Encounter design is a delicate beast, too, since strings of ridiculous rolls do happen, morphing a challenging encounter into anything from a cakewalk to a TPK. | ||
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AntiGrav1ty
Germany2310 Posts
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MattBarry
United States4006 Posts
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