Well in general E-Sports has to be in some way superior to real sports. I think thats why fighting games and sport games arent that sucessful. Real sports are too similar and much more thrilling and exciting. "Gameplaywise" some games are even inferior to real sports. (madden, nba, fifa) Some fighting games might be superior "gameplaywise" (more complex) than boxing, wrestling (real wrestling not wwe), ufc but they cant really make up for the thrill of 2 real humans actually punching each other in the face. So in the end they always have to share and compete for the attention of those interest groups.
Starcraft 2 (moba's also?) are like a superior version of chess. Theres no way you can play it in real life except for some crazy board or card games that are tiresome to handle. So it definetely has a unique feature to it.
Im not so sure about FPS (so correct me if im wrong on some stuff). They do have a fanbase and CS used to be quite big in esports. They do have the asset that you can not have a shooter tournament IRL because of moral reasons, but paintball hasnt become a spectator sport either. I think basically they share some of the same issues.
1. Observing is a pain in the ass (some do make an effort but there hasnt really been a breakthrough.) 2. moral issues (in the end killing someone by simple force or a simple way of point and shoot isnt socially accepted and is at at least somehow restraining ) 3. fast speed. it all happens so fast, its hard to follow and theres not so much time/space to display skill. 4. low complexity. in the end it comes down to point and shoot and thats not so exciting to watch. I guess you need a lot of positional skill, too but its hard to observe and in counter strike i feel like a positional advantage equals camping most of the time. (=boring to watch) 5. bad esports support for recent titles in favor of more casual gameplay, i guess
But its quite remarkable that stuff like the hunger games for dayz were quite popular on twitch. Its boring most of the time imo because nothing is happening but it does have some appeal to it. If i want to see simply a lot of action i go watch a movie. Esport is exciting because of strategy and skill and recent fps arent really able to display much of it and fail therefore in esports.
In what world do you live in where fighting games and sports games aren't successful? The FGC is thriving more than it has ever been and games like Madden, Fifa, and Football Manager are always topping charts when they release.
On February 17 2013 08:19 LoLAdriankat wrote: In what world do you live in where fighting games and sports games aren't successful? The FGC is thriving more than it has ever been and games like Madden, Fifa, and Football Manager are always topping charts when they release.
Americas Army had the appropriate pacing, skill curve, and complexity to be a very good game. The competitive scene for it was great as well, but unfortunately it was never designed as an esport. It was easy to observe and fun to watch, but it didn't have any support from the game developers (the U.S. Army) in that regard, because it was designed as a recruiting tool.
I don't think it would be impossible for an fps to be on a similar level as games like SC and LoL.. if it were created properly and with the esports scene in mind. That isn't going to happen though, because FPS games are dominated by huge titles that are simply marketable reskins. Much like you'll never see a great football game complete with support and patching, because EA runs such a monopoly on those games they have no incentive to make them better. Enough people will buy Fifa 14, or CoD 10 or whatever that there isn't a big reason to change too much. If we want to whine about what's killing esports, we have to look at how many genres are completely dominated by a single game, and realize how terrible that is for that genre's quality of gameplay, spectator entertainment value, and marketability.
For me esport is all about the skill cap. It should be very high and the skill of the players should be very high. That's it why broodwar attracted me. I find it to be more fun watching micro being axecuted with hard macro than seeing micro while the macro isn't that hard.
On February 12 2013 06:12 NIIINO wrote: I tried to watch LoL/SC2 tourny after 3 months of not playing and I had no idea what was going on.
I don't know. I don't follow the SC2 scene closely anymore. But everytime I tune in very little has changed. For LoL, I didn't played the game much and I didn't care for strategies or builds when I played because it was way to dumbed down to get me interested (played it for friends). When a friend sends me a link to a tournament I start watching a game and am like "yeah, they are doing this and this, obvious, that action was kinda cool but where are the things that makes them so pro?...".
Video games have a very limited ability to reach the audience beyond their playerbase (including less active or former players).
What games should try to do is come up with elegant designs so that people that do actually play them, however casually, are able to understand how the systems and mechanics within it work without having to consult external sources to "learn" it.
What's going on in a game should be clear to anybody who spent no more than 5 hours playing it - so that even if he decides to never play it again or prefers playing other games actively, he can still enjoy watching it.
On February 17 2013 08:19 LoLAdriankat wrote: In what world do you live in where fighting games and sports games aren't successful? The FGC is thriving more than it has ever been and games like Madden, Fifa, and Football Manager are always topping charts when they release.
This entire thread is about spectating.
Like this?
There's actually quite a lot of people who watch fighting games even though they don't play themselves, too.
If I could add in something, it would be that FPS gameplay is too "repetitive".
From a casual viewer's perpsective, although I am highly impressed by the skills of the players, I lose interest after about 15-30 minutes of watching. It gets boring seeing round after round of de_dust being played. And matches are decided by a few split second decisions.
I think NS2 might have some potential though, as it is an RTS FPS with some building up of a base involved. The game apparently has a high skill cap as well, but I have yet to see a live streamed tournament of it though.
On February 17 2013 08:19 LoLAdriankat wrote: In what world do you live in where fighting games and sports games aren't successful? The FGC is thriving more than it has ever been and games like Madden, Fifa, and Football Manager are always topping charts when they release.
were you guys alive 10 years ago with the big quake and esp cs scene? i had my first lans back then with prize pool, big screen tvs for spectators etc. esp in my country no game has ever come near to the success of cs as an esport.
I think if we are just talking about spectating, then fighting games are the most entertaining. Especially from a causal point of view because even if you have no knowledge of the game and its mechanics, everything you need to know is right there on the screen in front of you. I'm talking life bars, rounds, match time, the number of combatants, it's all there. Clearly seeing a character who is a hit a way from dying coming back to take the round or match is just pure hype in every way imaginable.
I have no idea why people are bringing up anecdotal evidence and personal opinions into this. Once again, we already have sources of clear, significant data. "I went to a LAN and it was huge" is not remotely the same as "50,000 people are watching this game at any given time".
nooo way, FPS is insanely boring to watch and there are so many FPS games its not even funny. When anyone tells me they play FPS now I just write them off as a casual gamer, thats how much the FPS genre has been shit on lately. Used to be great when it was quake and early counterstrike, but now it is just terrible
EPT
