EPTJust look at it!
Europa Universalis IV - Page 19
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Ramong
Denmark1706 Posts
Just look at it! | ||
Myles
United States5162 Posts
And Lithuania did that in my Ottoman game before my allies and I had to smack them down. Now they're expanding into western India. lol | ||
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LaNague
Germany9118 Posts
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Zaphod Beeblebrox
Denmark697 Posts
How did your game end up with so many huge nations without at least one of them dissolving into fractions? I'm guessing the few small nations are all vassals of a neighbouring blob. | ||
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LuckoftheIrish
United States4791 Posts
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ZasZ.
United States2911 Posts
On August 21 2013 05:31 LuckoftheIrish wrote: The tech system is just awful. AWFUL says I. Care to elaborate? I think it's just fine. | ||
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jtype
England2167 Posts
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Nyvis
France284 Posts
On August 21 2013 01:27 Myles wrote: And Byzantium. What kind of black magic is that? Random lucky nations or did you help them? And Lithuania did that in my Ottoman game before my allies and I had to smack them down. Now they're expanding into western India. lol Byzantium is in the unlucky nations group, not the lucky one (not sure if there is still unlucky nations, but since the idea is to follow history with those, I doubt it's a lucky nation). Unless he plays with random, of course. | ||
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Myles
United States5162 Posts
On August 21 2013 02:36 Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote: World of blobs much? How did your game end up with so many huge nations without at least one of them dissolving into fractions? I'm guessing the few small nations are all vassals of a neighbouring blob. Blobs you say? ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/diY6Y3o.png) Spain annexed Bavaria through personal union and Austria did the same to Naples. Portugal is loving North Africa like this was EU3. France has the second strong army in the world, but did lose it's last war and have a few OPMs released. One blob did fall apart, though. Only ~10 years ago Hindustan had continuous borders from east India past it's current border in Persia. Lithuania was also more blobbish until Sweden took it's northern possessions and I took everything they had in Crimea. edit: damn, and now Spain inherited Flanders too. | ||
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Yuljan
2196 Posts
 Hansa somehow conquered Ireland, Oman going strong, Japan is going crazy (they destroyed Ming before I got involved and one of the few times ive seen Russia doing well.+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xGaMhPI.png) | ||
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rezoacken
Canada2719 Posts
On August 21 2013 01:27 Myles wrote: And Byzantium. What kind of black magic is that? Random lucky nations or did you help them? And Lithuania did that in my Ottoman game before my allies and I had to smack them down. Now they're expanding into western India. lol I talked about it in a previous post: Interesting, in my game Byzantium got eliminated in 10 years, then as venice I lost a war against ottomans and released Byzantium with crete in the peace deal. Then I joined a coallition against ottomans, allied with a Poland/Lituania superpower and each war we do and crush Ottomans, Byzantium also declare war and bite at ottoman gaining a province each time. Right now Ottomans has 2 provinces left, Lithuania owns most of the east and Byzantium controls the whole greece I never directly helped them, they just grabed what they could everytime someone DoWed the Ottomans. They are normal (not-lucky) and as I said they died very early and got resurected with the crete province. Right now 100years later, Danemark still holding the whole Scandinavia is leading a personal union with the big Lithuania its so ridiculous. But that's okay since they are my ally and I'll avoid border friction. Byzantium got eaten by Poland though. Myself I had a few difficult wars with France with really little gains that ended in me having massive unrest and had to fight it for many years. Every pagans are dead (or almost). Here is the current situation... so yeah the big Lithuania blob is a vassal of the big Danemark blob. I became Italy, go better fighting ideas but lost quite a lot on income. However Republic tradition just suck so I'm happy that's gone. + Show Spoiler + Should be noted that I played with Random Lucky and Lithuania is one of them. Edit: After researching France, England, Spain, Lithuania, Savoy, Poland, Austria and Portugal are the eight lucky in my game. | ||
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TokO
Norway577 Posts
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rezoacken
Canada2719 Posts
On August 21 2013 06:52 TokO wrote: I think the economy of managing your three resources is quite awesome. Before every country would end up looking the same, but now you can actually differentiate a lot. Although i feel a little bit forced to invest in Military Tech, as having higher tier units is quite strong. That has been my experience. You have to keep up in military but you can halt one of the other 2 to rush through an idea group and then catch up thanks to the neighbour bonus. My issue with points is that there is too much of it that only depends on the monarch. I think there should be more than 3 level of advisors and an easier slope when it comes to their salary. For example instead of having monarch on a 1 to 6 scale, have them on a 1 to 4 and make advisors go 1 to 5 but level 2 or 3 being more affordable. | ||
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TokO
Norway577 Posts
If we draw parallels to the real world, a lot of stuff that defines the world that we live in are those exact extreme occurances. I think the distinct nature of monarchs kind of help portray that. This isn't targetted at you or anything, just making the argument for why it is the way it is, and why a lot of the factors seem out of control. | ||
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iamho
United States3347 Posts
Also, the system punishes non-Western tech groups waay too much. The deduction in monthly points means that you will be likely be sitting around with a ton of gold, but nothing to do with it. I spent a lot of time just watching the game run on max speed so I could slowly get more points to do stuff. | ||
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LaNague
Germany9118 Posts
Also, what do you need diplo power for when colonizing? i only need like 14 gold/month to keep 3 colonizing 3 provinces and then like 10 admin power to core them. Even suing pagans for peace is free and converting to my religion is too. Anyways, i like this system since its something you actively do and can decide. I never liked the % chance system of CK2, its was just really passive and i just looked at it every 50 years once. Alsoalso...yes. Embrace the randomness :D If there were no random elements, the game would be pretty boring with the player always owning the AI. At least its not as bad as in Ck2 where your king can die at a bad time and you lose 90% of your realm. But even then you can continue House of Cards style  | ||
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rezoacken
Canada2719 Posts
On August 21 2013 09:57 TokO wrote: Yeah, I think there are two ways to look at the monarch issue. One is that it is bad because things are too random. The other is kinda more embracing of the randomness. Sometimes life is a bitch. I think it's difficult to critisise the game for being too imbalanced because of monarch variety, simply because it isn't trying to have any semblance of balance at all. Ever get hit by Peasant's War? It feels like shit, you know 20 years of your game is going to be wasted. You can rage, or you can deal with it. If we draw parallels to the real world, a lot of stuff that defines the world that we live in are those exact extreme occurances. I think the distinct nature of monarchs kind of help portray that. This isn't targetted at you or anything, just making the argument for why it is the way it is, and why a lot of the factors seem out of control. Meanwhile sure I'm sucking it up, but that's a forum to discuss things so... yeah. Nobody here asked for a complete removal of randomness. I still think the point system isn't great. At least not the way you earn those points, because how you spend them (having to balance techs vs ideas) I think its great. However the way you earn points is way too passive/un-interactive for my taste, that's why I'd like a system that revolves more around advisors stats than monarch stats. There's a little bit of that already but I feel it should be more. I don't want the monarch part to disappear, I still like the fact that a good ruler will help your country a lot and the random part there, what I don't like is that almost everything comes from the ruler until you swim in gold to afford +2 +3 advisors instead of +1. Not sure why some stuff cost points (which translate to costing techs). Like buildings, doesn't really make sense that investing in armories make military tech slower. | ||
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LuckoftheIrish
United States4791 Posts
It's counter-intuitive. The best way to have an advanced, powerful military is to never ever do anything ever. Don't hire leaders, don't force marches, don't build military buildings. If you embrace the idea of exploration, you've set your shipbuilding industry back dramatically; five years at the least but assuming you actually pick up ideas in that tree it's more like twelve to twenty. You've also crippled your ability to trade. And it just gets worse if you build buildings. And administration points? That's like gas for the engine of your country, except that you have to spend it to open the doors, roll down the window, turn the wheel, open the glovebox and take off the handbrake. The only really efficient way to spend your points is to expand aggressively, use ADM points to make cores and DIP points to make peace (which is utterly, utterly stupid) and culture-flip captured provinces. The fact that it costs tech to do any action is a crappy mechanic that punishes a player for making actions. It's a worse system than the one in CK2, where you set your focus to Noble Customs, Farming and Tactics and then never looked at that screen again. And it's far worse than the one in EU3, which was changed because it was too snowbally. Edit: one of the most common defenses of the new tech system is that it forces the player to make hard choices. I don't see it that way at all. In fact, it punishes the player for making choices and acting proactively. That's simply bad design. | ||
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Pwere
Canada1556 Posts
On another note, leaders having random scores from 0 to 6 is pretty ridiculous. On one hand, you have Great Britain with a 6,6,6 leader, and your poor heir is 0,3,3. They should probably cap points at 9-10/month, and lower the cost of high level advisors. This way a good economy can be used to make up for a crappy leader. I've never played EU before this one, but I heard great things about the modding community and their balance decisions. This is definitely an issue I think they should look at. | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
However, I don't think it's as bad as people say, and there's definitely choices to it. The fact that every action you do slows down your tech forces you to value your points, which in turn forces you to make hard choices... Get to high stability or wait for the next admin idea? Take a slightly bigger peace deal, but be forced to have a worse navy? Take that nice military idea, or wait for the next tech? As the Ottomans, even with my first idea group being offensive, I've still kept up with military tech, I'm generally able to get the next level about 4-5 years too soon (but I obviously always wait since it's an insane waste of military points to get it earlier). The key is to never put points in military ideas until you've hit the tech year cap, and only have free military leaders unless your ruler is extremely good. Since it takes a while before technology cap starts to kick in unless you have an amazing ruler, I would recommend not getting a military ideagroup first, regardless of country. However, I do agree about the random nature of rules... there really should be a baseline, or some way to redistribute points a bit.. getting two long lived rules with shit stats consecutively can really shut down your game. | ||
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