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Lysteria
France2279 Posts
On November 09 2015 00:53 nothingmuch wrote: "One of the hardest nations in the game". <-> harder than Ottomans or France. gg ? Neighbor to usual power houses Lithuania, Muscovy and Sweden, that can't be said about a lot of countries. Novgorod is one hard country for a new player. | ||
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ZeroChrome
Canada1001 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/KiPk1r0.png) Finished my first campaign as a colonizer. Apart from getting fully occupied by switzerland it went pretty smoothly. Fought a huge world war around 1760 vs Spain+colonies, Ottomans, and Austria to overthrow Spain's new world dominance, after that it was just map painting. Also the first time I've never not taken admin ideas in a campaign | ||
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Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
On November 09 2015 00:53 nothingmuch wrote: "One of the hardest nations in the game". <-> harder than Ottomans or France. gg ? Wow there are dozens of minor nations that in a normal game cease to exist before year 1500, this must mean every nation stronger than those is pretty much easymode for anyone including first-time players! gg ? | ||
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nothingmuch
448 Posts
On November 09 2015 17:06 Salazarz wrote: Wow there are dozens of minor nations that in a normal game cease to exist before year 1500, this must mean every nation stronger than those is pretty much easymode for anyone including first-time players! gg ? No. bg due to massive lack of reading comprehension- I never said that no re | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6204 Posts
On November 09 2015 23:11 nothingmuch wrote: No. bg due to massive lack of reading comprehension- I never said that no re Neither did any of us say Novgorod was one of the hardest nations in the game to play. Only that in the context of which it was said by Wiz it's less silly and that for lesser skilled players it can be pretty hard. | ||
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nothingmuch
448 Posts
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Velr
Switzerland10671 Posts
For newbies/beginners there is not much of a diffrence between playing Novgorod (or Bavaria which said OP also mentioned) or some random minor. The only countries actually harder than Novgorod are small countries next to the Ottomans or Castille/France. | ||
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Bojas
Netherlands2397 Posts
You're outnumbered like 1,5:1 by force limit and you have a shitty general against an insane general. Both your manpower and economy don't come close to what the other side has. You basically NEED Lithuania to ally you (which took me a couple restarts because they tend to rival you) and you need them to stay in the war long enough and not get PU'd. Or get lucky that some horde decides that Muscovy has to go. I guess it's not hard, just a few things have to go right because you're not really going to win by yourself. Edit: when I did it it was like a year ago before Novgorod got an increase in base tax, also I think hordes are more aggressive now? | ||
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nothingmuch
448 Posts
On November 10 2015 00:46 Velr wrote: In context to the OP Wiz queoted his post was fine. For newbies/beginners there is not much of a diffrence between playing Novgorod (or Bavaria which said OP also mentioned) or some random minor. The only countries actually harder than Novgorod are small countries next to the Ottomans or Castille/France. I guess this discussion wasn't pointless after all. This is sig worthy. | ||
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PoulsenB
Poland7710 Posts
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419
Russian Federation3631 Posts
The only countries actually harder than Novgorod are small countries next to the Ottomans or Castille/France. maybe in new patch version where things like "ally major (or 3), direct at rival, collect provinces" don't actually work | ||
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nothingmuch
448 Posts
On November 10 2015 03:57 419 wrote: maybe in new patch version where things like "ally major (or 3), direct at rival, collect provinces" don't actually work And where there are no minors outside of Europe and where no nations start as vassals etc... Novgorod has decent force limit, a great economy, a good tech group, very good national ideas with a good government form. The only difficulty is a (potentially) belligerent Muscovy and a (potential) lack of proper allies. If the basis for being "one of the hardest nations in the game" is "I can't find enough allies to beat my bigger rivals" then there are about a hundred "hardest nations in the game". | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10671 Posts
If your Novgorod and the game decides that Lit doesn’t like you and the hordes don’t go after Muscovy, you have two options: 1: Exploit the AI has hard as possible and somehow win against Muscovy --> No beginner will be able to do this, heck, no one not „learning“ how to screw the AI will know how to do this. 2: Die. Now if your a player that goes for WC‘s and is used to start with these awefull starts, yeah, Novgorod is halfway decent… But for a beginner all of this won’t matter. Btw: I did my fair share of Bysanz, Bosnia, Trebizond and other "hard" runs and was pretty sucesfull... Thing is, once you know what your doing, these are not hard. They are luck based and boring. | ||
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Xafnia
Canada874 Posts
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nothingmuch
448 Posts
On November 11 2015 00:45 Velr wrote: Novgorods start to me felt about as hard as Bosnias (but with Bosnia you die quicker if the game decides that you shall not prevail)… And i would call Bosnias start hard. Yes, there are harder ones, plenty… But for a beginner, aside from starting as a minor with a way stronger overlord, there isn’t much of a diffrence. If your Novgorod and the game decides that Lit doesn’t like you and the hordes don’t go after Muscovy, you have two options: 1: Exploit the AI has hard as possible and somehow win against Muscovy --> No beginner will be able to do this, heck, no one not „learning“ how to screw the AI will know how to do this. 2: Die. Now if your a player that goes for WC‘s and is used to start with these awefull starts, yeah, Novgorod is halfway decent… But for a beginner all of this won’t matter. Btw: I did my fair share of Bysanz, Bosnia, Trebizond and other "hard" runs and was pretty sucesfull... Thing is, once you know what your doing, these are not hard. They are luck based and boring. You fell into the same trap Wiz did; hyperbole. And now you've got some serious backpedaling to do. Inc. tons of "if"s and other conditions under which your statement isn't just nonsense. As a reminder, this is what you said: On November 10 2015 00:46 Velr wrote: The only countries actually harder than Novgorod are small countries next to the Ottomans or Castille/France. If Wiz or you had added some riders along the lines of "in Europe" or "of it's size" or indeed "if the game decides (L)it doesn't like you" (lolwat) , well then that might have been more debatable. And again, if a beginners experience is the criterion by which you want to judge difficulty, Novgorod is among dozens of "hardest nation in the game". For succeeding with Novgorod a player has to know how to grow without leaving himself vulnerable, how to get strong allies, and to restart if said allies start the game hostile to you. Now to be sure this is far beyond beginner level but it's definitely not the epitome of "skill required". After you have won the first war against Muscovy playing Novgorod becomes really easy. That fact alone should suffice to disqualify Novgorod from the "hardest nation in the game" club. Plenty of nations have a much much harder time growing/surviving than just winning 1 war. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Sent.
Poland9172 Posts
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ZeroChrome
Canada1001 Posts
EDIT: just went into my France game to play the last few years and get The Grand Armada achievement. Waited around for a few years to build the 400 heavies I needed only to find out that my save had de-ironmanned itself >.> | ||
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ZeroChrome
Canada1001 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zeq83g4.png) Is a world conquest possible from here? 1595, I have Syria, Georgia, Vijayanagar, and Shun as vassals and at/ahead of time on all techs. Full humanist, offensive, admin, and quantity. | ||
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nothingmuch
448 Posts
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