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On October 27 2012 05:17 Maxyim wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 04:31 DaCruise wrote:On October 27 2012 04:15 Maxyim wrote:
Why didn't you have laser weapons at least by then? Why do you think?? I spend my money on other stuff such as officer upgrades and more satellites. I cant afford everything. Calm down, I am not talking trash, just trying to figure out exactly what happened. Sounds like you did a very greedy strategy by going for both officer upgrades and sats; perhaps a better approach would be sats + laser / carapace, and then use the next round of income for officer upgrades.
Its a tough choice. Think I´d rather skip the satellite and carapace and then go for upgrades and lasers.
Its lose/lose anyway without the rng in your favor.
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@Dacruise post
How is it even possible to get up 4 satellites in the first month? I've never been able to put up more than 1 is there a guide I should be reading or some general strategy I'm missing
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On October 27 2012 05:34 Dacendoran wrote:
@Dacruise post
How is it even possible to get up 4 satellites in the first month? I've never been able to put up more than 1 is there a guide I should be reading or some general strategy I'm missing
-After the initial mission you build nothing.
-After the first abduction you build a workshop (ofc you pick the one that gives engineers).
-pray you get a ufo mission when there is still 21+ days to council report.
-build 4 satellites. You will have to sell corpses and ufo parts to afford it.
-pray you get another mission when there is stil 14+ days to council report.
-build satellite uplink. Again you will prolly have to sell stuff to afford it.
During all of the above dont build any nano-weave, scopes or medikit.
As you can see building 4 satellites in the first month is not always possible. It mostly depends on when the first ufo shows up. If its with less than 20 days to council report you can forget about it.
Its also worth a note that in rare occasions the first mission will be ufo, which is bad since you need to have a workshop completed 14+ days before council report cause it takes 14 days to build a satellite uplink.
If the timer reach 21 days to report and you havnt gotten a ufo mission just build a single satellite and excavate/ build medikit, scope or nanoweave as you see fit and you can afford. Dont build an uplink in that case.
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On October 27 2012 05:30 DaCruise wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 05:17 Maxyim wrote:On October 27 2012 04:31 DaCruise wrote:On October 27 2012 04:15 Maxyim wrote:
Why didn't you have laser weapons at least by then? Why do you think?? I spend my money on other stuff such as officer upgrades and more satellites. I cant afford everything. Calm down, I am not talking trash, just trying to figure out exactly what happened. Sounds like you did a very greedy strategy by going for both officer upgrades and sats; perhaps a better approach would be sats + laser / carapace, and then use the next round of income for officer upgrades. Its a tough choice. Think I´d rather skip the satellite and carapace and then go for upgrades and lasers. Its lose/lose anyway without the rng in your favor.
Yeah, I think that the key is to have as much offense as possible to kill aliens before they can RNG you to death with their favorable odds.
What about SHIV use early on? Requires both time and investment, but may be worthwhile to have 2 on the field to soak up damage. I am still not quite sure how XP gain works (clearly it's not completely tied to who kills who), but seems like having less soldiers has the possibility of speeding up development of the smaller group. Of course, kills by SHIVs is lost xp...so not sure...
Really, I think that it's all about getting the maximum # of double tap snipers and a few scouts, all in ghost armor. Cloak gives 4 opportunities per battle to position around a pack without triggering it, then blowing them away in the next turn...
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On October 27 2012 05:44 DaCruise wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 05:34 Dacendoran wrote:
@Dacruise post
How is it even possible to get up 4 satellites in the first month? I've never been able to put up more than 1 is there a guide I should be reading or some general strategy I'm missing -After the initial mission you build nothing. -After the first abduction you build a workshop (ofc you pick the one that gives engineers). -pray you get a ufo mission when there is still 21+ days to council report. -build 4 satellites. You will have to sell corpses and ufo parts to afford it. -pray you get another mission when there is stil 14+ days to council report. -build satellite uplink. Again you will prolly have to sell stuff to afford it. During all of the above dont build any nano-weave, scopes or medikit. As you can see building 4 satellites in the first month is not always possible. It mostly depends on when the first ufo shows up. If its with less than 20 days to council report you can forget about it.
So basically, a 1 rax into triple orbitals opening against a better player. Very rewarding economically, but you have to be lucky to pull it off, and need time to leverage the investment back into production and army.
I wonder if it would be better to focus on making a big push for queuing up as many sats as possible on day 40, while focusing on lasers and squad size until then. Ideal scenario would be;
Day 36: Workshop x2
Day 40: Queue 6 satellites
Day 46: Build 2 uplinks next to each other (+5 capacity to a total of 7 as you start with 2 capacity and one in use)
The drawback is possibly losing countries in the first month, and I'm not sure at the moment if it is feasible to come up with all of the credits required for this while also getting lasers and squad size.
EDIT: of note - it is more beneficial to take the 200 credit reward over 4 engineers to achieve these goals, especially if starting in Europe. You do however need to have enough engineers for the first workshop (I think it's 6).
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On October 27 2012 06:01 Maxyim wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 05:44 DaCruise wrote:On October 27 2012 05:34 Dacendoran wrote:
@Dacruise post
How is it even possible to get up 4 satellites in the first month? I've never been able to put up more than 1 is there a guide I should be reading or some general strategy I'm missing -After the initial mission you build nothing. -After the first abduction you build a workshop (ofc you pick the one that gives engineers). -pray you get a ufo mission when there is still 21+ days to council report. -build 4 satellites. You will have to sell corpses and ufo parts to afford it. -pray you get another mission when there is stil 14+ days to council report. -build satellite uplink. Again you will prolly have to sell stuff to afford it. During all of the above dont build any nano-weave, scopes or medikit. As you can see building 4 satellites in the first month is not always possible. It mostly depends on when the first ufo shows up. If its with less than 20 days to council report you can forget about it. So basically, a 1 rax into triple orbitals opening against a better player. Very rewarding economically, but you have to be lucky to pull it off, and need time to leverage the investment back into production and army. I wonder if it would be better to focus on making a big push for queuing up as many sats as possible on day 40, while focusing on lasers and squad size until then. Ideal scenario would be; Day 36: Workshop x2 Day 40: Queue 8 satellites Day 46: Build 2 uplinks The drawback is possibly losing countries in the first month, and I'm not sure at the moment if it is feasible to come up with all of the credits required for this while also getting lasers and squad size.
No the drawback is you don't have any money after first month is over.
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On October 27 2012 06:09 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 06:01 Maxyim wrote:On October 27 2012 05:44 DaCruise wrote:On October 27 2012 05:34 Dacendoran wrote:
@Dacruise post
How is it even possible to get up 4 satellites in the first month? I've never been able to put up more than 1 is there a guide I should be reading or some general strategy I'm missing -After the initial mission you build nothing. -After the first abduction you build a workshop (ofc you pick the one that gives engineers). -pray you get a ufo mission when there is still 21+ days to council report. -build 4 satellites. You will have to sell corpses and ufo parts to afford it. -pray you get another mission when there is stil 14+ days to council report. -build satellite uplink. Again you will prolly have to sell stuff to afford it. During all of the above dont build any nano-weave, scopes or medikit. As you can see building 4 satellites in the first month is not always possible. It mostly depends on when the first ufo shows up. If its with less than 20 days to council report you can forget about it. So basically, a 1 rax into triple orbitals opening against a better player. Very rewarding economically, but you have to be lucky to pull it off, and need time to leverage the investment back into production and army. I wonder if it would be better to focus on making a big push for queuing up as many sats as possible on day 40, while focusing on lasers and squad size until then. Ideal scenario would be; Day 36: Workshop x2 Day 40: Queue 8 satellites Day 46: Build 2 uplinks The drawback is possibly losing countries in the first month, and I'm not sure at the moment if it is feasible to come up with all of the credits required for this while also getting lasers and squad size. No the drawback is you don't have any money after first month is over.
Money which would avail you with nothing if you have to fight Thin Men on the next day with 4 lead-slinging soldiers. In the meantime, winning missions = scrap you can sell.
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On October 27 2012 06:01 Maxyim wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 05:44 DaCruise wrote:On October 27 2012 05:34 Dacendoran wrote:
@Dacruise post
How is it even possible to get up 4 satellites in the first month? I've never been able to put up more than 1 is there a guide I should be reading or some general strategy I'm missing -After the initial mission you build nothing. -After the first abduction you build a workshop (ofc you pick the one that gives engineers). -pray you get a ufo mission when there is still 21+ days to council report. -build 4 satellites. You will have to sell corpses and ufo parts to afford it. -pray you get another mission when there is stil 14+ days to council report. -build satellite uplink. Again you will prolly have to sell stuff to afford it. During all of the above dont build any nano-weave, scopes or medikit. As you can see building 4 satellites in the first month is not always possible. It mostly depends on when the first ufo shows up. If its with less than 20 days to council report you can forget about it. So basically, a 1 rax into triple orbitals opening against a better player. Very rewarding economically, but you have to be lucky to pull it off, and need time to leverage the investment back into production and army. I wonder if it would be better to focus on making a big push for queuing up as many sats as possible on day 40, while focusing on lasers and squad size until then. Ideal scenario would be; Day 36: Workshop x2 Day 40: Queue 6 satellites Day 46: Build 2 uplinks The drawback is possibly losing countries in the first month, and I'm not sure at the moment if it is feasible to come up with all of the credits required for this while also getting lasers and squad size. EDIT: of note - it is more beneficial to take the 200 credit reward over 4 engineers to achieve these goals, especially if starting in Europe. You do however need to have enough engineers for the first workshop (I think it's 6).
Analyzing this further, let's say that we start in Europe. Cost of workshop is (c)75. We start with 5 engineers and need 6, which we will get at the beginning of the next month.
Building the 2 workshops before starting satellite production may be more optimal as it dramatically reduces cost per sat (which starts at (c)100). However, I am not sure if you will have enough time from getting the 6th engineer to build the workshops (10 days) and the satellites (20 days) since there are only 30 days in April. Those satellites won't do us any good if we get them a few minutes after the end of month 2.
So, on Day 36, you will need (c) 150 for two workshops.
On Day 40, you would need (c) 600 for 6 satellites (I am not sure if this is possible; I think the workshops being available by this point would reduce cost to ~500)
On Day 46, you will also need (c)20 to excavate enough room for 2 uplinks, and then (c) 300 for the uplinks themselves.
So, ~970 to 1070 credits. Not looking good in terms of viability.
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On October 27 2012 06:31 Maxyim wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 06:01 Maxyim wrote:On October 27 2012 05:44 DaCruise wrote:On October 27 2012 05:34 Dacendoran wrote:
@Dacruise post
How is it even possible to get up 4 satellites in the first month? I've never been able to put up more than 1 is there a guide I should be reading or some general strategy I'm missing -After the initial mission you build nothing. -After the first abduction you build a workshop (ofc you pick the one that gives engineers). -pray you get a ufo mission when there is still 21+ days to council report. -build 4 satellites. You will have to sell corpses and ufo parts to afford it. -pray you get another mission when there is stil 14+ days to council report. -build satellite uplink. Again you will prolly have to sell stuff to afford it. During all of the above dont build any nano-weave, scopes or medikit. As you can see building 4 satellites in the first month is not always possible. It mostly depends on when the first ufo shows up. If its with less than 20 days to council report you can forget about it. So basically, a 1 rax into triple orbitals opening against a better player. Very rewarding economically, but you have to be lucky to pull it off, and need time to leverage the investment back into production and army. I wonder if it would be better to focus on making a big push for queuing up as many sats as possible on day 40, while focusing on lasers and squad size until then. Ideal scenario would be; Day 36: Workshop x2 Day 40: Queue 6 satellites Day 46: Build 2 uplinks The drawback is possibly losing countries in the first month, and I'm not sure at the moment if it is feasible to come up with all of the credits required for this while also getting lasers and squad size. EDIT: of note - it is more beneficial to take the 200 credit reward over 4 engineers to achieve these goals, especially if starting in Europe. You do however need to have enough engineers for the first workshop (I think it's 6). Analyzing this further, let's say that we start in Europe. Cost of workshop is (c)75. We start with 5 engineers and need 6, which we will get at the beginning of the next month. Building the 2 workshops before starting satellite production may be more optimal as it dramatically reduces cost per sat (which starts at (c)100). However, I am not sure if you will have enough time from getting the 6th engineer to build the workshops (10 days) and the satellites (20 days) since there are only 30 days in April. Those satellites won't do us any good if we get them a few minutes after the end of month 2. So, on Day 36, you will need (c) 150 for two workshops. On Day 40, you would need (c) 600 for 6 satellites (I am not sure if this is possible; I think the workshops being available by this point would reduce cost to ~500) On Day 46, you will also need (c)20 to excavate enough room for 2 uplinks, and then (c) 300 for the uplinks themselves. So, ~970 to 1070 credits. Not looking good in terms of viability.
It's perfectly possible if you skip building the officer and just get some laser weapons for your soldiers (so you don't get swarmed on the terror mission, and to be able to fight decently floaters / thinman). Like the guy said, if you get the RNG to be able to build 4 satellites on first month, probably you will be swimming on money for the next month. Get interceptors (so you get atleast 2 UFO missions = more cash) ASAP on month 2, and you should research on first month SCOPE and if you get an UFO in time to build those 4 satellites, then you go beam weapons. You can perfectly get +3 satellites next month and save every country, even on impossible.
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Means shit when RNG in this game is crap. I missed so many 80%+ shots in a row it is not funny. Especially with rapid shot. We know the game makes all rolls at start of round, it must make one roll per character and fucks up your rapid shots. I even missed a 100% shot once when I was rapid shooting from point blank with shotgun.
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On October 27 2012 19:11 -Archangel- wrote:Means shit when RNG in this game is crap. I missed so many 80%+ shots in a row it is not funny. Especially with rapid shot. We know the game makes all rolls at start of round, it must make one roll per character and fucks up your rapid shots. I even missed a 100% shot once when I was rapid shooting from point blank with shotgun.
The RNG had been already tested. It works fine. Shit happens.
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Does killing Aliens with Grenades reduce the amount of XP they give ?
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On October 27 2012 19:41 Godwrath wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 19:11 -Archangel- wrote:Means shit when RNG in this game is crap. I missed so many 80%+ shots in a row it is not funny. Especially with rapid shot. We know the game makes all rolls at start of round, it must make one roll per character and fucks up your rapid shots. I even missed a 100% shot once when I was rapid shooting from point blank with shotgun. The RNG had been already tested. It works fine. Shit happens.
Only way to test RNG would be to make every shot in the game no matter how low and to do that at least 1000 times. Anything else is crap testing. And that also is not a good test because you cannot try each and every possibility.
Only way to say RNG is OK is to actually see the code that handles it.
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Russian Federation228 Posts
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How complicated do people think "good" RNG is to get? This isn't a deep mystery anymore, and there's no need for anyone besides perhaps the government and banks to write proprietary generators when Mersenne Twister exists. We've all had that time when we miss some number of high probability shots in a row, but if you really want to "test" your game, it's not as complicated as you'd think, even if it is a bit tedious.
We're interested in the expectation of a long sequence of binary trials (hit/miss) where each trial has some different probability of success. If each trial is independent, which they should be in this case, then the expectation of the sum of the trials will simply be the sum of the expectation. Of course, the expectation of a random variable which is 1 with probability p, and 0 with probability (1-p) is just 'p'.
So if our shots have probability to hit p1,p2,p3,p4,p5,... we expect to hit p1+p2+p3+p4+p5+... of them. Practically, this means you just have to keep track of two columns. In one, you put the probability of every shot you take, in the other you put a 0 for each miss, a 1 for each hit. After some, preferably large, amount of time, you add up the two columns, and expect them to be relatively close.
It goes without saying that if you leave some shots out, i.e. you're biased to fill in all those 90% misses as you ragequit, your results won't mean anything. If you actually keep track though, I strongly strongly doubt that you'll be off by more than a few percent over the course of 30+ missions.
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On October 27 2012 20:03 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 19:41 Godwrath wrote:On October 27 2012 19:11 -Archangel- wrote:Means shit when RNG in this game is crap. I missed so many 80%+ shots in a row it is not funny. Especially with rapid shot. We know the game makes all rolls at start of round, it must make one roll per character and fucks up your rapid shots. I even missed a 100% shot once when I was rapid shooting from point blank with shotgun. The RNG had been already tested. It works fine. Shit happens. Only way to test RNG would be to make every shot in the game no matter how low and to do that at least 1000 times. Anything else is crap testing. And that also is not a good test because you cannot try each and every possibility. Only way to say RNG is OK is to actually see the code that handles it.
And that the size of samples people had done to test it.
On October 27 2012 19:44 Daumen wrote:
Does killing Aliens with Grenades reduce the amount of XP they give ?
No, but you don't fragments from them.
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Canada8033 Posts
Of course people are cheating. People have been cheating in online games since time immemorial, and unfortunately, X-Com wasn't about to be any different, haha.
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I just finished my first playthrough on Classic. Man, was that ending underwhelming. I've never seen a game end so abruptly.
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EPT
