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When you play the game for long, the only time it becomes exciting is when the aliens come at you hard like in the above screenshots. It actually becomes a tense situation instead of the usual "throw everything you have at the 3 aliens before they can shoot, rinse repeat x5".
The trouble is that such encounters are just not efficient. The whole way the mission plays out just stamps you into a small corridor of what you should and shouldn't do. It is not efficient to split up your squad because killing aliens before they can shoot is the way to play the game. It's also not efficient because covering more ground at once is the worst thing you can do.
You literally cannot even think about running up to a pack of aliens. There's one alien left and you saved your assault guy incase of any stragglers. How about a run and gun to finish it off before it kills one of my guys?
BAD IDEA
Killing the alien with a run and gun is a dreadful idea because there is a chance, just a chance that you will aggro more aliens and the worst thing you can do in this game which I'm sure you all have learnt the hard way, is to aggro a pack or two of aliens on your last move.
Because of this, you're pretty much forced to play safely. You spend one turn moving all your people to cover still in close proximity to one another and then you overwatch.
See nothing?
Shimmy up closer. Overwatch.
Nothing?
Shimmy up closer. Overwatch.
Hear something?
Overwatch. You might as well because having 3-6 reaction shots go off can wipe out the alien pack.
And then you think, "hmm, 3 aliens dead. Most likely 9 more aliens to go.
There's little to do in missions and there's little to do outside missions.
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Canada8033 Posts
On October 25 2012 20:19 Nizaris wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 19:58 GrandSmurf wrote:On October 25 2012 19:50 nihlon wrote:On October 25 2012 16:13 AntiGrav1ty wrote:
Haven't encountered many bugs myself to be honest. The amount of bugs in Xcom isn't really out of the ordinary. Most games these days are plagued by bugs at release. They should do a better job of fixing stuff though.
From the numbers i've seen they developers made the right choice when it comes to making the game more accessible. The game seems to be a major success. Pretty sure many people who bought enemy unknown haven't played the UFO series before and those people couldnt care less about stuff like inventory management and having to face the right direction... Myself included.
You are wrong, XCOM is without a doubt much more bug ridden than most games with this production scale. Sure many games have bugs at launch, some causing a lot of issues but the pure amount of bugs in XCOM is definitely not the standard. Many of them aren't exactly bugs either but just issues in gameplay that you'd expect to be fixed during a beta. Don't get me wrong, I like the game and most of these issues can be easily overlooked but still... you make it sound like this game is utterly unplayable. that is simply not the case. i got some glitches at best. with the number of ppl complaining that bugs broke their game and prevented them from advancing, it's more than glitches. It's game breaking bugs, just because you and I haven't encountered them doesn't mean they aren't there. Although i bet half the ppl complaining about bugs, is because they haven't bought the game and therefore didn't get patches ;p
Even with the first patch, my game crashes somewhere on the order of once every half hour. I can't even pinpoint what causes the crashes - it happens at the strangest times. Fortunately, ironman saves your game every turn, so it wasn't too difficult to get back in, but it was still pretty damn annoying.
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On October 25 2012 23:03 ToT)OjKa( wrote:
When you play the game for long, the only time it becomes exciting is when the aliens come at you hard like in the above screenshots. It actually becomes a tense situation instead of the usual "throw everything you have at the 3 aliens before they can shoot, rinse repeat x5".
The trouble is that such encounters are just not efficient. The whole way the mission plays out just stamps you into a small corridor of what you should and shouldn't do. It is not efficient to split up your squad because killing aliens before they can shoot is the way to play the game. It's also not efficient because covering more ground at once is the worst thing you can do.
You literally cannot even think about running up to a pack of aliens. There's one alien left and you saved your assault guy incase of any stragglers. How about a run and gun to finish it off before it kills one of my guys?
BAD IDEA
Killing the alien with a run and gun is a dreadful idea because there is a chance, just a chance that you will aggro more aliens and the worst thing you can do in this game which I'm sure you all have learnt the hard way, is to aggro a pack or two of aliens on your last move.
Because of this, you're pretty much forced to play safely. You spend one turn moving all your people to cover still in close proximity to one another and then you overwatch.
See nothing?
Shimmy up closer. Overwatch.
Nothing?
Shimmy up closer. Overwatch.
Hear something?
Overwatch. You might as well because having 3-6 reaction shots go off can wipe out the alien pack.
And then you think, "hmm, 3 aliens dead. Most likely 9 more aliens to go.
There's little to do in missions and there's little to do outside missions.
Agree 100 %.
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I can't wait for mods that do the following:
Allow you to pick up items dropped by allies (losing your last medikit holder is brutal)
8 - 10 squad members
Get one of those walking mechs (haven't beaten the game so maybe I can later)
Nerf sniping a bit
Aliens attacking the first turn you see them, also more pathing by alien packs
Quick overwatch hotkey
Do nothing button
Frankly, I feel this game is a prime example of a PC version being worse in order to be in line with consoles. Thank goodness we have modding in the PC scene.
I'm also noticing a lot of odd bugs. For instance, after an attack cutscene my game will not do anything for 15 seconds or more. This game was rushed out of the gate, but the groundwork is still fun. I wish they would have had 2-3 more months to finish this game.
I don't regret that I bought it, but I won't do a second play through until there are some great mods out for this game.
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On October 26 2012 00:00 Cleomenes wrote:
I can't wait for mods that do the following:
Allow you to pick up items dropped by allies (losing your last medikit holder is brutal)
8 - 10 squad members
Get one of those walking mechs (haven't beaten the game so maybe I can later)
Nerf sniping a bit
Aliens attacking the first turn you see them, also more pathing by alien packs
Quick overwatch hotkey
Do nothing button
Frankly, I feel this game is a prime example of a PC version being worse in order to be in line with consoles. Thank goodness we have modding in the PC scene.
I'm also noticing a lot of odd bugs. For instance, after an attack cutscene my game will not do anything for 15 seconds or more. This game was rushed out of the gate, but the groundwork is still fun. I wish they would have had 2-3 more months to finish this game.
I don't regret that I bought it, but I won't do a second play through until there are some great mods out for this game.
You forgot more maps....above anything else I want more maps in the game.
I would also like a mod that would somehow make labs and workshops more relevant. Seriously, who builds a lab in this game?
An extra difficulty level between classic and impossible is something I would welcome as impossible right now is in fact.....impossible, lol. On the other hand classic, while challenging, is not really that hard.
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On October 26 2012 00:00 Cleomenes wrote:
I can't wait for mods that do the following:
Allow you to pick up items dropped by allies (losing your last medikit holder is brutal)
8 - 10 squad members
Get one of those walking mechs (haven't beaten the game so maybe I can later)
Nerf sniping a bit
Aliens attacking the first turn you see them, also more pathing by alien packs
Quick overwatch hotkey
Do nothing button
Frankly, I feel this game is a prime example of a PC version being worse in order to be in line with consoles. Thank goodness we have modding in the PC scene.
I'm also noticing a lot of odd bugs. For instance, after an attack cutscene my game will not do anything for 15 seconds or more. This game was rushed out of the gate, but the groundwork is still fun. I wish they would have had 2-3 more months to finish this game.
I don't regret that I bought it, but I won't do a second play through until there are some great mods out for this game.
Quick overwatch is Y (or Z). You just need to press tab afterward to quickly move to next unit and press Y (Z) and so on. It takes like 3s.
Do nothing is backspace. Well that is to end turn. Do what you want with some of your soldiers and when you only got left those that do nothing press backspace.
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Canada8033 Posts
On October 26 2012 00:00 Cleomenes wrote:
I can't wait for mods that do the following:
Allow you to pick up items dropped by allies (losing your last medikit holder is brutal)
8 - 10 squad members
Get one of those walking mechs (haven't beaten the game so maybe I can later)
Nerf sniping a bit
Aliens attacking the first turn you see them, also more pathing by alien packs
Quick overwatch hotkey
Do nothing button
Overwatch is bound to Y by default. You can easily make an autohotkey script that tabs through all your soldiers and puts them all on overwatch.
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On October 26 2012 00:00 Cleomenes wrote:
I can't wait for mods that do the following:
Allow you to pick up items dropped by allies (losing your last medikit holder is brutal)
8 - 10 squad members
Get one of those walking mechs (haven't beaten the game so maybe I can later)
Nerf sniping a bit
Aliens attacking the first turn you see them, also more pathing by alien packs
Quick overwatch hotkey
Do nothing button
Frankly, I feel this game is a prime example of a PC version being worse in order to be in line with consoles. Thank goodness we have modding in the PC scene.
I'm also noticing a lot of odd bugs. For instance, after an attack cutscene my game will not do anything for 15 seconds or more. This game was rushed out of the gate, but the groundwork is still fun. I wish they would have had 2-3 more months to finish this game.
I don't regret that I bought it, but I won't do a second play through until there are some great mods out for this game.
Aliens attacking on the same turn would mean that they would potentially get two moves. Although I personally do not understand why at least some packs are not in overwatch (especially when they hear gunfire, see their bros dying down the street, etc).
For sniping, I personally think that both In the Zone and Double Tap need to be reworked. Perhaps by double tap only offering another shot on the same target (logic!) with a reduced hit rate, and for In the Zone offering a maximum of one extra shot at reduced hit rate. As it stands, an In the Zone sniper can clear a room with ease, particularly with other squad members helping to reduce health of targets to Plasma Rifle damage range.
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On October 25 2012 23:09 Spazer wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 20:19 Nizaris wrote:On October 25 2012 19:58 GrandSmurf wrote:On October 25 2012 19:50 nihlon wrote:On October 25 2012 16:13 AntiGrav1ty wrote:
Haven't encountered many bugs myself to be honest. The amount of bugs in Xcom isn't really out of the ordinary. Most games these days are plagued by bugs at release. They should do a better job of fixing stuff though.
From the numbers i've seen they developers made the right choice when it comes to making the game more accessible. The game seems to be a major success. Pretty sure many people who bought enemy unknown haven't played the UFO series before and those people couldnt care less about stuff like inventory management and having to face the right direction... Myself included.
You are wrong, XCOM is without a doubt much more bug ridden than most games with this production scale. Sure many games have bugs at launch, some causing a lot of issues but the pure amount of bugs in XCOM is definitely not the standard. Many of them aren't exactly bugs either but just issues in gameplay that you'd expect to be fixed during a beta. Don't get me wrong, I like the game and most of these issues can be easily overlooked but still... you make it sound like this game is utterly unplayable. that is simply not the case. i got some glitches at best. with the number of ppl complaining that bugs broke their game and prevented them from advancing, it's more than glitches. It's game breaking bugs, just because you and I haven't encountered them doesn't mean they aren't there. Although i bet half the ppl complaining about bugs, is because they haven't bought the game and therefore didn't get patches ;p Even with the first patch, my game crashes somewhere on the order of once every half hour. I can't even pinpoint what causes the crashes - it happens at the strangest times. Fortunately, ironman saves your game every turn, so it wasn't too difficult to get back in, but it was still pretty damn annoying.
my game never crashed. not once. sounds like a hardware/drivers issue, maybe you use an ATI card?  or maybe you just need to get latest drivers.
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There are a lot of elements I would like to play around with changing for mods. The game is pretty fun, but it feels too restrictive in what I am allowed to do. Also, I want friendly fire back. Why should it be restricted only to panic shots and explosives?
Oh well, guess I will load up UFO Defense again and continue some of my older games. Must defeat Hawaii and Antarctic challenge on Superhuman.
On October 26 2012 00:39 Ideas wrote:
Yea there are a lot of things I like about this game but there are so many obvious ways to improve it.
I think the biggest would be making each level completely emergent: all aliens are activated in the beginning (no idling until a soldier moves close enough to them), move in their own volition (patrol paths, etc), and act smartly (will try to overwhelm you). It will require a lot of design changes (re-balancing the game a bit so that it's still fair for the player), but I think it will be a lot more interesting and remove a lot frustration that comes from accidentally activated extra groups of enemies that suddenly get free shots on you.
or maybe firaxis already tried it that way and it wasn't as fun (after all, they did spend 4 years developing the game).
They may have tried some things, but it still feels like the game was built in "tunnel-vision" mode. Some of the changes make sense and were good, others diminished the overall quality of the product released. You can find evidences of both of these by just reading through the thread.
For aliens to be activated as soon as the tactical battle begins would be a nice change. I, for one I am sick of seeing that "reveal" cutscene every time I spot an alien. In addition to that, it would encourage you to split your soldiers up (as someone referenced a lack of being able to do earlier). Another thing would be to give the aliens better night vision than the humans. Possibly add back in a motion detector, or night vision goggles / thermal vision. I want to be disadvantaged fighting at night without the proper equipment.
Talking about all the potential things they could have done both excites me (for future mods!) and depresses me (for their lack of insight).
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Yea there are a lot of things I like about this game but there are so many obvious ways to improve it.
I think the biggest would be making each level completely emergent: all aliens are activated in the beginning (no idling until a soldier moves close enough to them), move in their own volition (patrol paths, etc), and act smartly (will try to overwhelm you). It will require a lot of design changes (re-balancing the game a bit so that it's still fair for the player), but I think it will be a lot more interesting and remove a lot frustration that comes from accidentally activated extra groups of enemies that suddenly get free shots on you.
or maybe firaxis already tried it that way and it wasn't as fun (after all, they did spend 4 years developing the game).
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On October 26 2012 00:29 Nizaris wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 23:09 Spazer wrote:On October 25 2012 20:19 Nizaris wrote:On October 25 2012 19:58 GrandSmurf wrote:On October 25 2012 19:50 nihlon wrote:On October 25 2012 16:13 AntiGrav1ty wrote:
Haven't encountered many bugs myself to be honest. The amount of bugs in Xcom isn't really out of the ordinary. Most games these days are plagued by bugs at release. They should do a better job of fixing stuff though.
From the numbers i've seen they developers made the right choice when it comes to making the game more accessible. The game seems to be a major success. Pretty sure many people who bought enemy unknown haven't played the UFO series before and those people couldnt care less about stuff like inventory management and having to face the right direction... Myself included.
You are wrong, XCOM is without a doubt much more bug ridden than most games with this production scale. Sure many games have bugs at launch, some causing a lot of issues but the pure amount of bugs in XCOM is definitely not the standard. Many of them aren't exactly bugs either but just issues in gameplay that you'd expect to be fixed during a beta. Don't get me wrong, I like the game and most of these issues can be easily overlooked but still... you make it sound like this game is utterly unplayable. that is simply not the case. i got some glitches at best. with the number of ppl complaining that bugs broke their game and prevented them from advancing, it's more than glitches. It's game breaking bugs, just because you and I haven't encountered them doesn't mean they aren't there. Although i bet half the ppl complaining about bugs, is because they haven't bought the game and therefore didn't get patches ;p Even with the first patch, my game crashes somewhere on the order of once every half hour. I can't even pinpoint what causes the crashes - it happens at the strangest times. Fortunately, ironman saves your game every turn, so it wasn't too difficult to get back in, but it was still pretty damn annoying. my game never crashed. not once. sounds like a hardware/drivers issue, maybe you use an ATI card? or maybe you just need to get latest drivers.
I have an Nvidia card, and I've gotten tons of bugs. Sometimes my interface decides to stop working. Sometimes enemys fall through the floor into oblivion, only to reappear right in the middle of my group. Sometimes the game just crashes. The game is just buggy.
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Dress-up party! How do you outfit your squaddies?
My personal opinion, for the following squad (which I consider optimal) -
Assault (rapid fire and defensive skills)
Support (pure medic)
Heavy (bulletstorm, 3 rockets)
Heavy (bulletstorm, 3 rockets)
Sniper (squadsight, opportunist, in the zone)
Sniper (squadsight, executioner, double tap)
S.C.O.P.E - make 2x and equip on snipers.
Medikit - make 1x and equip on, durr, medic.
Nano-fiber Vest - make 3x and equip on everyone else.
Chitin Plating - make 4x and replace nano-fiber vests and give to medic in second slot once available.
Carapace Armor - make 4x once you unlock it, as Skeleton Armor is only 4 days away.
Skeleton Armor - make 2x for your snipers so they can jump between rooftops and gain the +10 defense, which makes them less likely to be targeted.
Titan Armor - make 2x, goes to heavies, 'nuff said.
Ghost Armor - make 2x, one goes to double tap sniper so they can reposition and start a turn being able to double-tap, the other goes to assault.
Archangel Armor - make 2x, one goes to In the Zone sniper (to gie him maximum LoS for killchains), one goes to support.
What do you guys use?
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My game crashed once but I had a save closeby so was not a problem (Yeah I'm a pussy.  ) Loving the game so far though, about 30 hours in, not sure how far in the campaign. :p Awesome that a lot of TL'ers actually play this game! :D
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On October 26 2012 00:57 Maxyim wrote:
Dress-up party! How do you outfit your squaddies?
My personal opinion, for the following squad (which I consider optimal) -
Assault (rapid fire and defensive skills)
Support (pure medic)
Heavy (bulletstorm, 3 rockets)
Heavy (bulletstorm, 3 rockets)
Sniper (squadsight, opportunist, in the zone)
Sniper (squadsight, executioner, double tap)
Carapace Armor - make 4x once you unlock it, as Skeleton Armor is only 4 days away.
Skeleton Armor - make 2x for your snipers so they can jump between rooftops and gain the +10 defense, which makes them less likely to be targeted.
Titan Armor - make 2x, goes to heavies along with chitin plating, 'nuff said.
Ghost Armor - make 2x, one goes to double tap sniper so they can reposition and start a turn being able to double-tap, the other goes to assault.
Archangel Armor - make 2x, one goes to In the Zone sniper (to gie him maximum LoS for killchains), one goes to support.
What do you guys use?
Assault with offensive skills but Immune to Crit, Alloy cannon and Psi armor with chitin carapace. He is also psi gifted and took offensive powers.
Assault with defensive skills but with Rapid shot, Alloy cannon and Ghost Armor with chitin carapace.
Heavy with bullet storm and Mayham, Titan armor and scope
Heavy with bullet storm and extra rocket, titan armor and scope
Support with healing and revival skills (only took overwatch skill instead of +3 move), wears Psi armor and chitin plating and medkit. Psi gifted as well, took defensive powers.
6th character I use two different ones.
For shorter missions: Sniper with Snap Shot and In the Zone who wears Ghost armor or Titan armor and scope.
For longer missions: Support with all healing skills (but also has overwatch skill) and wears titan armor and medkit and scope.
Way harder to play then with 2 squad sight sniper (tried this in my 1st classic game, got bored fast), but way more fun. I don't plan to play squad sight snipers until they are nerfed. I only see them needed for Impossible difficulty and for noobs in other difficulties that don't know how to play properly. I don't lose soldiers even without squad sight snipers.
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I always use a support with ghost armor and the move+3squares skill. fastest unit you can possibly have, and totally safe.
In fact i only use archangel (2x for snipers) and ghost (4x, for everybody else) you are faster (that extra 3 squares are often the difference between low and full cover), harder to hit (clean miss is way better than havin a little more health), + grappling hook. And invisibillity is essentially godmode for up to 4 turns per battle. Alltogether its way better than a little more health.
ghost>titan
only problem: the game gets to easy, even on classic difficulty
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On October 26 2012 01:06 Snotling wrote:
I always use a support with ghost armor and the move+3squares skill. fastest unit you can possibly have, and totally safe.
In fact i only use archangel (2x for snipers) and ghost (4x, for everybody else) you are faster (that extra 3 squares are often the difference between low and full cover), harder to hit (clean miss is way better than havin a little more health), + grappling hook. And invisibillity is essentially godmode for up to 4 turns per battle. Alltogether its way better than a little more health.
ghost>titan
only problem: the game gets to easy, even on classic difficulty
4 less life is not a small difference. Lack of fire and poison immunity can also play a role. And +20 defense means shit once AI starts getting lucky. 4 extra life is a difference between a death by critical or not. Also Ghost is useless against grenades or psi attacks
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Canada8033 Posts
On October 26 2012 00:29 Nizaris wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 23:09 Spazer wrote:On October 25 2012 20:19 Nizaris wrote:On October 25 2012 19:58 GrandSmurf wrote:On October 25 2012 19:50 nihlon wrote:On October 25 2012 16:13 AntiGrav1ty wrote:
Haven't encountered many bugs myself to be honest. The amount of bugs in Xcom isn't really out of the ordinary. Most games these days are plagued by bugs at release. They should do a better job of fixing stuff though.
From the numbers i've seen they developers made the right choice when it comes to making the game more accessible. The game seems to be a major success. Pretty sure many people who bought enemy unknown haven't played the UFO series before and those people couldnt care less about stuff like inventory management and having to face the right direction... Myself included.
You are wrong, XCOM is without a doubt much more bug ridden than most games with this production scale. Sure many games have bugs at launch, some causing a lot of issues but the pure amount of bugs in XCOM is definitely not the standard. Many of them aren't exactly bugs either but just issues in gameplay that you'd expect to be fixed during a beta. Don't get me wrong, I like the game and most of these issues can be easily overlooked but still... you make it sound like this game is utterly unplayable. that is simply not the case. i got some glitches at best. with the number of ppl complaining that bugs broke their game and prevented them from advancing, it's more than glitches. It's game breaking bugs, just because you and I haven't encountered them doesn't mean they aren't there. Although i bet half the ppl complaining about bugs, is because they haven't bought the game and therefore didn't get patches ;p Even with the first patch, my game crashes somewhere on the order of once every half hour. I can't even pinpoint what causes the crashes - it happens at the strangest times. Fortunately, ironman saves your game every turn, so it wasn't too difficult to get back in, but it was still pretty damn annoying. my game never crashed. not once. sounds like a hardware/drivers issue, maybe you use an ATI card? or maybe you just need to get latest drivers.
You assume I have money! Integrated graphics man. T_T
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Canada8033 Posts
On October 26 2012 01:09 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 01:06 Snotling wrote:
I always use a support with ghost armor and the move+3squares skill. fastest unit you can possibly have, and totally safe.
In fact i only use archangel (2x for snipers) and ghost (4x, for everybody else) you are faster (that extra 3 squares are often the difference between low and full cover), harder to hit (clean miss is way better than havin a little more health), + grappling hook. And invisibillity is essentially godmode for up to 4 turns per battle. Alltogether its way better than a little more health.
ghost>titan
only problem: the game gets to easy, even on classic difficulty 4 less life is not a small difference. Lack of fire and poison immunity can also play a role. And +20 defense means shit once AI starts getting lucky. 4 extra life is a difference between a death by critical or not. Also Ghost is useless against grenades or psi attacks
4 life IS a small difference, considering most enemies hit for 8+ damage by the endgame. +20 defense, combined with cover, makes you pretty damn dodgy. And if you're gonna talk about the enemy getting lucky, you might as well mention that crits shit on any sort of armor -_-. As for lack of fire immunity, I've never run into a single situation where it's been a hindrance.
Finally, invisibility is invulnerability.
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Fun bug I found: if your soldier gets panicked while cloaked in ghost armor he becomes perma-invisible for the rest of the mission.
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EPT
