EPTCompany of Heroes 2 - Page 27
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tokicheese
Canada739 Posts
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acker
United States2958 Posts
On August 06 2013 13:52 xuanzue wrote: I loled with this "fact" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_Guards_Rifle_Division http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shtrafbat The ability to produce weapons is not the same thing as the ability or willingness to distribute weapons. It seems clear that penal battalions, at the very least, suffered from this issue. On August 06 2013 13:57 xuanzue wrote: maybe all the reports wrote by Manstein, Guderian, Grossman and Beevor?. Which reports? Why are German generals and journalists authoritative subjects on Soviet logistics? Not sure why people are so surprised at summary execution of troops and prisoners in an Eastern Front game. From what I recall, the NKVD set up machine guns behind the front lines to massacre retreating soldiers, let alone kill them on the front line itself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrier_troops | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17159 Posts
of 600,000+ arrested a little more than 10,000 were actually executed. furthermore, consumers make buying decisions based upon perception rather than reality. otherwise, Mcdonald's, cigarette, soda pop and candy bar companies would've all gone out of business 50+ years ago. Relic messed this one up, big time. | ||
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acker
United States2958 Posts
On August 06 2013 15:39 JimmyJRaynor wrote: the problem is that Relic turned it into a game mechanic for only the Soviets. of 600,000+ arrested a little more than 10,000 were actually executed. furthermore, consumers make buying decisions based upon perception rather than reality. otherwise, Mcdonald's, cigarette, soda pop and candy bar companies would've all gone out of business 50+ years ago. Relic messed this one up, big time. Those numbers are low, as they only include people executed after being detained--it was perfectly legal to instantly shoot deserters WH40k style. Troops executed under desertion exceeded 150,000. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17159 Posts
On August 06 2013 16:50 acker wrote: Those numbers are low, as they only include people executed after being detained--it was perfectly legal to instantly shoot deserters WH40k style. Troops executed under desertion exceeded 150,000. you should try reading the links you post as sources. if Relic included game mechanics featuring the bad things americans and germans did during the conflict it would make for a more even presentation. they did not do this. some russians are angry about it. turning historic atrocities into game mechanics is like playing with fire. relic got burned. the #s do not matter. when it comes to buying decisions perception is reality. look for Sega-Sammy or Sammy-Sega or whatever they are called to protect the Sega brand. | ||
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zeo
Serbia6331 Posts
Was there a 'steal food from India' mechanic in CoH1? | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17159 Posts
On August 06 2013 20:00 Zeo wrote: Winston Churchill siphoned food away from India to feed the British army, over 3 million Indians died from hunger. Numerous times he stated the Indians/brown people were sub-human while also hated Gandhi with a passion. Was there a 'steal food from India' mechanic in CoH1? EXACTLY. give this man a gold star. its just a bad move by Relic to turn any kind of historical atrocity into a "game mechanic". it does not even matter if it actually happened or not. nor does the exact scale of the atrocity matter. why stir the pot in the first place? i wish i could be a fly on the wall at the offices of Relic to watch all the finger pointing going on. did u guys hear the news? a bunch of hydralisks are planning on picketing in front of Mike Morhaime's house because of how Blizzard misrepresented the invasion of Aiur.  | ||
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acker
United States2958 Posts
On August 06 2013 20:00 Zeo wrote: Winston Churchill siphoned food away from India to feed the British army, over 3 million Indians died from hunger. Numerous times he stated the Indians/brown people were sub-human while also hated Gandhi with a passion. Was there a 'steal food from India' mechanic in CoH1? ....Wait, this is even dumber than I originally thought it was. A Soviet battlefield commander could summarily execute his troops, but how would a British battlefield commander control intraempire logistics? This is COH, not Civilization. There's no more a "starve the Indians" button than there is a "rape and burn the next village" button because that's irrelevant to field command. + Show Spoiler + Post reorganized The actual number was closer to six million. However, this is the first time I've seen famine blamed on food exports to the 50,000 abroad soldiers of the British-Indian Army, rather than the loss of Burma to Japanese forces and institutional failings*. Would you happen to have a source that isn't from a conspiracy theorist? *Alongside the usual imperialist bureaucratic failures, provinces raised trade barriers amongst themselves against all known laws of economics. Democratically >< | ||
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Infernal_dream
United States2359 Posts
On August 07 2013 01:56 acker wrote: ....Wait, this is even dumber than I originally thought it was. A Soviet battlefield commander could summarily execute his troops, but how would a British battlefield commander control intraempire logistics? This is COH, not Civilization. There's no more a "starve the Indians" button than there is a "rape and burn the next village" button because that's irrelevant to field command. + Show Spoiler + Post reorganized The actual number was closer to six million. However, this is the first time I've seen famine blamed on food exports to the 50,000 abroad soldiers of the British-Indian Army, rather than the loss of Burma to Japanese forces and institutional failings*. Would you happen to have a source that isn't from a conspiracy theorist? *Alongside the usual imperialist bureaucratic failures, provinces raised trade barriers amongst themselves against all known laws of economics. Democratically >< Way to completely miss the entire point of his post. His point is that those two buttons didn't exist in CoH1, so why the fuck are they in 2? Why would they take something completely unnecessary, and completing condescending to every Russian and implement it into the game? Why would you ONLY show the Russian atrocities when every country completely fucked whoever they had to in order to win the war. | ||
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acker
United States2958 Posts
On August 07 2013 08:15 Infernal_dream wrote: Way to completely miss the entire point of his post. His point is that those two buttons didn't exist in CoH1, so why the fuck are they in 2? Why would they take something completely unnecessary, and completing condescending to every Russian and implement it into the game? Why would you ONLY show the Russian atrocities when every country completely fucked whoever they had to in order to win the war. Calm down good sir, neither of those two buttons exist in COH2 either. Nor can you execute your own troops DOW-style. But you already knew that, as you clearly own the game and have researched it in excruciating detail. If people are insulted that summary execution by the NKVD was integrated into the Soviet regional command structure in World War Two and that this was shown in the Single Player Campaign, they are free to not buy the game. The State will not force them to purchase COH2, capitalism will prevail, free markets work, etc. "Controversy" aside, I'd think that the gameplay is just as historically-realistic as the previous title: not at all. Given Relic's track record, I'd also doubt that the game will be balanced any time soon. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17159 Posts
On August 07 2013 09:04 acker wrote: "Controversy" aside, I'd think that the gameplay is just as historically-realistic as the previous title: not at all. then Relic needs to stop creating advertising like this. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334632¤tpage=26#505 it just adds to the problem. and they now know that "fair or unfair" turning a war atrocity into a "game mechanic" can stir up nationalistic feelings. seeing as the upper management of relic consists of a bunch of 40+ canadians you'd think they'd have taken a page out of Pierre Trudeau's guide on how to quell nationalism. also, it would not be much of a surprise to find out that this same bunch of 40+ canadians is anti-russian/anti-soviet considering how much major canadian media inundated their young minds with anti-USSR propaganda. no one is playing the game any way.. and Relic is 1 more failure away from non-existence. as you've said .. capitalism will fix this problem. | ||
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KelianQatar
303 Posts
On August 07 2013 09:45 JimmyJRaynor wrote: seeing as the upper management of relic consists of a bunch of 40+ canadians you'd think they'd have taken a page out of Pierre Trudeau's guide on how to quell nationalism. ya, you stop nationalism with helmets and guns everyone is playing Civilization 5 any way | ||
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naastyOne
491 Posts
On August 06 2013 15:23 acker wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_Guards_Rifle_Division http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shtrafbat The ability to produce weapons is not the same thing as the ability or willingness to distribute weapons. It seems clear that penal battalions, at the very least, suffered from this issue. Yet, some units getting sent to combat without full equipment due to lack/ or inability do deliver it in time is not the same as saying it was a deliberate. It makes no sence to not distribute weapons to soldiers, even if you sent them to death, since they can take out enemies. I would compare it to this: US army is notorious for blue on blue incidents. However, nobody seem to be stupid enought to say something along the lines of "US army encourages soldiers to first shoot, and then figure out if the target is friendly or not" it is neither true, nor nice. Somehow it is fine for portrayal of Soviets though. Also, penal battalions were present in other armies. Germans had them before Russians. On August 06 2013 15:23 acker wrote: Not sure why people are so surprised at summary execution of troops and prisoners in an Eastern Front game. From what I recall, the NKVD set up machine guns behind the front lines to massacre retreating soldiers, let alone kill them on the front line itself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrier_troops All armies have police units. All police units are armed. All police units are set behind frontlines to catch desertirs and other. First of all, desertirs are armed with military weapons, so no surprise, police has to well armed, and machienguns are among the better weapons. Also, NKVD was often fighting itself, since Germans were manuverable. The "massacres" of "retreating" is nothing more than a myth. Why people don`t even consider that retreating troops actually take cassualties, you know, fighting Germans, before retreating? Why shooting retreating? they can still fight later, or can be sentenced to labour camp and contribute to war effort. Killing them doesn`t contribute to victory, but waists pressious human resources and ammunition, and can get NKVD killed in retaliation, since, once again, retreating people are armed. Why people can not get out of cold war mindset of "every Russian is some stupid, illigical and cruel unhuman" and see any logic. Why don`t people ask themselves what would happen if US soldier refused to assault beaches of Normandy, would US do nothing about that? No, US would punish the very few that actually would, and the rest would not have to be forced. Why do you think Soviet soldiers were any different in that reguard in the first place? | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10134 Posts
On August 06 2013 20:00 Zeo wrote: Winston Churchill siphoned food away from India to feed the British army, over 3 million Indians died from hunger. Numerous times he stated the Indians/brown people were sub-human while also hated Gandhi with a passion. Was there a 'steal food from India' mechanic in CoH1? And you show that in game mechanichs how ? Yet, some units getting sent to combat without full equipment due to lack/ or inability do deliver it in time is not the same as saying it was a deliberate. It makes no sence to not distribute weapons to soldiers, even if you sent them to death, since they can take out enemies. It depends on the mission of those troops mostly. Of course it is better to send everyone armed, but it is not useless to have the higher amount of "bodies", except if you have some sort of weapons that only one soldier can use, or your enemy weaponry is too advanced for you to use (neither is the case). But logistic are a bitch. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17159 Posts
On August 07 2013 15:02 Godwrath wrote: And you show that in game mechanichs how ? let's put Owen Hart, Chris Benoit and his wife and kids in the next WWE game and see how well it sells in canada. as part of the new "WWE Career mode" we'll have Benoit's career ending after performing an S&M rape and murder scene on his wife and kids. the game will sell better because it will show the "grim realities" of the pro wrestling business. and no can say it didn't happen. everyone should be comfortable with it. we can even make a giant poster like Relic did about how "REAL" everything is. maybe we can put a few steroid doctors in the game.. along with Vince Mcmahon's $7000/hour Legal team. you'll have to pick who the best lawyer is for the steroid scandals and, owen hart death falls. Canadians will buy the game by the millions because it'll have Chris Benoit, Owen Hart and Pat Patterson in it. the only way u get an intercontinental title shot is if u have anal sex with Pat Patterson! O ... and ya.. the negotiations that went on between Martha Hart and Vince's legal team! Canadians will love that. | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10134 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17159 Posts
http://www.videogamer.com/pc/company_of_heroes_2/news/sega_and_relic_apologise_for_any_offence_caused_by_company_of_heroes_2.html guy, when you put a war atrocity into a video game you are taking a risk. twisting your mind into a pretzel of rationalizations to excuse what relic did has proven to be moot. Relic gambled and lost. it's over now. | ||
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Infernal_dream
United States2359 Posts
On August 08 2013 21:52 JimmyJRaynor wrote: apologies incoming... http://www.videogamer.com/pc/company_of_heroes_2/news/sega_and_relic_apologise_for_any_offence_caused_by_company_of_heroes_2.html guy, when you put a war atrocity into a video game you are taking a risk. twisting your mind into a pretzel of rationalizations to excuse what relic did has proven to be moot. Relic gambled and lost. it's over now. Well I'm pretty sure this seals the deal for CoH 2. And everyone defending the story line and things shown in the campaign...you might as well stop, Relic already did. They chose a terrible road to go on and it didn't pay off. There is 0 reason to have the things in the campaign that they did. It didn't contribute anything to it. The campaign was never realistic in the first place. | ||
mrmin123
Korea (South)2971 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17159 Posts
On August 09 2013 05:23 mrmin123 wrote: plz guys who plays CoH for the single player anyway? well there is less than 2,000 on Steam at night. so i hope someone is playing CoH2 single player. | ||
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