EPTThe Elder Scrolls Online - Page 39
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
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Spaylz
Japan1743 Posts
Just started playing it, and I gotta say it's amazing. | ||
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Battleaxe
United States843 Posts
On January 27 2014 06:39 Spaylz wrote: Or FFXIV. Just started playing it, and I gotta say it's amazing. XIV is good, and it will be an enjoyable experience, but once you catch up, you'll find something else to be desired from end game. I'm currently playing, I love the game, but I've seen countless cancels citing lack of endgame/endgame enjoyment for people to continue their subs. Alt leveling is alright, but if you aren't someone that's into that or crafting, you pretty much get boned. I'm keeping my eye on this game. I've got a friend in the full time beta so I'm getting info here and there, seems like this will be solid game but likely won't live up to the expectations people put on it. One thing that really turned me off so far is hearing that once you finally get high enough to do quests in the other faction's zones, you can't see/engage with anyone of the other faction. I don't know if this for beta only or intended, but as of right now it seems like the only way you'll see players from the other factions is if you do pvp in the specified zones. No world pvp seems very anti elder scrolls | ||
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Spaylz
Japan1743 Posts
Besides, what is endgame anyway? I hear the same complaint on virtually any MMO. On GW2, people say there's no endgame either, even after a year. What's end game? Raids and that's it? Anyway, going off-topic a bit here. The lack of world PvP seems to be the standard most MMOs are going for, I'm guessing to prevent player abuse. I don't know about Wild Star though, but I think most MMOs will just remove the open world PvP bit and create dedicated zones, much like the Heart of the Mists in GW2. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11397 Posts
But even then, i think the series went crazy at some point and split books into two books because they would be too long otherwise, so the fifth book consists of two books, or something like that. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. | ||
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Excludos
Norway7990 Posts
On January 27 2014 08:54 Simberto wrote: At least you are not in germany, where every book gets split in two, those get printed with bigger letters, and then sold for the same price one english book would cost. Luckily i am able to read in english. But even then, i think the series went crazy at some point and split books into two books because they would be too long otherwise, so the fifth book consists of two books, or something like that. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. ..? Are you per chance maybe looking for the game of thrones thread..? | ||
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Excludos
Norway7990 Posts
On January 27 2014 08:21 Spaylz wrote: Well, they're adding a new dungeon, a new primal, etc.. How bad can it be? I'm hopeful. They rebuilt the game from scratch and that took a lot of guts, I don't think many companies would go there. So I want to believe they want to make it right, but maybe I'm just an idealist. The game has been out barely 5 months anyway, we should give it time. Besides, what is endgame anyway? I hear the same complaint on virtually any MMO. On GW2, people say there's no endgame either, even after a year. What's end game? Raids and that's it? Anyway, going off-topic a bit here. The lack of world PvP seems to be the standard most MMOs are going for, I'm guessing to prevent player abuse. I don't know about Wild Star though, but I think most MMOs will just remove the open world PvP bit and create dedicated zones, much like the Heart of the Mists in GW2. Endgame is the reason people still play WoW, while most other mmo's rapidly lose their players as they reach the top lvl. Leveling can be fun, but its not a challenge. You will lvl doing almost anything to any degree. A real challenge comes in form of pvp, raiding, and acquiring better gear in the process. Wow is so far the only mmo where I've got to lvl 60 for the first time and thought "oh. This isn't the end? This is where the game starts!" | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On January 27 2014 09:42 Excludos wrote: Endgame is the reason people still play WoW, while most other mmo's rapidly lose their players as they reach the top lvl. Leveling can be fun, but its not a challenge. You will lvl doing almost anything to any degree. A real challenge comes in form of pvp, raiding, and acquiring better gear in the process. Wow is so far the only mmo where I've got to lvl 60 for the first time and thought "oh. This isn't the end? This is where the game starts!" And the reason why MMOs fail is because investors do not care about end game. Most of them are just not savvy enough to realize that. | ||
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Soltanol
Germany55 Posts
WoW at release had like 3 raids? 2 single bosses :Onyxia, Lord Kazzak and 1 raid instance: Molten Core Blackwing Lair only got patched in with 1.6 like 6 months after release. New games have similiar amount of Raids/Bosses at release, but as people are used to the polished WoW they rarely stick around for 1-2 patches or expansions until the developer have the time to get to the same level. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11397 Posts
On January 27 2014 16:44 Soltanol wrote: Well the problem i see there is rather that most people blindly compare any new MMO to the current WoW , a ~9 year old game with 4 expansions and countless patches with new content. WoW at release had like 3 raids? 2 single bosses :Onyxia, Lord Kazzak and 1 raid instance: Molten Core Blackwing Lair only got patched in with 1.6 like 6 months after release. New games have similiar amount of Raids/Bosses at release, but as people are used to the polished WoW they rarely stick around for 1-2 patches or expansions until the developer have the time to get to the same level. Which is reasonable. A new MMO has to compete with the WoW of now, not the WoW of 9 years ago. Sure, that isn't easy, but if your game can't do that, there is really no point to it, because people won't play a game that is worse then WoW for a long enough period of time for that game to eclipse WoW. | ||
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Soltanol
Germany55 Posts
On January 27 2014 17:11 Simberto wrote: + Show Spoiler + On January 27 2014 16:44 Soltanol wrote: Well the problem i see there is rather that most people blindly compare any new MMO to the current WoW , a ~9 year old game with 4 expansions and countless patches with new content. WoW at release had like 3 raids? 2 single bosses :Onyxia, Lord Kazzak and 1 raid instance: Molten Core Blackwing Lair only got patched in with 1.6 like 6 months after release. New games have similiar amount of Raids/Bosses at release, but as people are used to the polished WoW they rarely stick around for 1-2 patches or expansions until the developer have the time to get to the same level. Which is reasonable. A new MMO has to compete with the WoW of now, not the WoW of 9 years ago. Sure, that isn't easy, but if your game can't do that, there is really no point to it, because people won't play a game that is worse then WoW for a long enough period of time for that game to eclipse WoW. Well in that case there will no new "big" MMO until WoW gets shut down :p It's unreasonable to expect a company to add 1 year or more of development just to match the volume of stuff WoW has. And if they do it costs them so much money that they will never make a profit also their graphics ect. will be extremely outdated by the day they ship the game Sometimes it just seems the whole MMO Market is a dead end atm and the morphing into F2P cant be stopped. Which i personally hate because in each and every f2p game i tried the community is just an abomination, people flaming and trolling with no repercussions because they know they can just make a new account (LoL is the prime example there). And yes: in WoW there are also kiddies and idiots and flamer but paying 13€ a month filters out a lot of them and the ones who are there are more hesitant to risk their accounts. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On January 27 2014 18:42 Soltanol wrote: Well in that case there will no new "big" MMO until WoW gets shut down :p It's unreasonable to expect a company to add 1 year or more of development just to match the volume of stuff WoW has. And if they do it costs them so much money that they will never make a profit also their graphics ect. will be extremely outdated by the day they ship the game Sometimes it just seems the whole MMO Market is a dead end atm and the morphing into F2P cant be stopped. Which i personally hate because in each and every f2p game i tried the community is just an abomination, people flaming and trolling with no repercussions because they know they can just make a new account (LoL is the prime example there). And yes: in WoW there are also kiddies and idiots and flamer but paying 13€ a month filters out a lot of them and the ones who are there are more hesitant to risk their accounts. Yeah I hate F2P games, prefer the subscription model. But I also prefer the subscription (for mmo's only) because I would rather pay a 15$ fee a month and do everything rather then have to pay for stupid shit (quests and what not). | ||
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Spaylz
Japan1743 Posts
Nonetheless, I agree with Soltanol. If people actually expect any new MMO to come out as a full-fledged game able to compete with WoW and its 5 or so expansions, then no MMO will be able to survive until Blizzard kills WoW themselves when they release Titan. Gamers have become more demanding, and perhaps a bit unrealistic. Not all companies have the same resources as Blizzard does, and to be frank, I suspect that even if such a game were to be release, the amount of dissatisfied people would still be significant. In all honesty, I believe most regular gamers try out the new games that come out, almost regardless of the business model, and once they come to the point where they realize there isn't as much content as WoW, they go back to WoW and return to the other game a while later, after more content has been added. This is a behaviour I don't really understand, as one can't really expect a game to release good content at a super fast pace (you only need to look at the Living Story of GW2 to see that..), and apparently the average MMO gamer isn't satisfied unless there is ALWAYS new content coming out, even though, as far as I know, Blizzard does not release content any faster than the other companies, probably even the opposite of that. ESO won't be the game to change that. GW2 wasn't, FFXIV won't be (although I'd like it if that game grew more successful and lasted, which isn't an unrealistic expectation I think) and neither will Wild Star. The trend might die when Blizzard releases Titan and, surprise, it doesn't have as much content as WoW. Though by then, some other major MMO will have more content and might be rewarded for it, but because of the Blizzard factor I doubt that. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21485 Posts
Can you release a Doom 1 clone saying you need time to catch up? Why would MMO's be any different. Yes you need a complete working and interesting endgame when your MMO releases. Yes you need interesting fights and a good difficulty curve. People are not demanding 20 raid instances but a raid that will sustain there interest until you patch in the next one. Why should people accept an inferior product just because your late to the market? And dont pretend like it cant be done. The last MMO other then WoW I really played was SWTOR and it had the potential. Except they fucked up the combat system adding frustrating lag/animation issues and the raid was a joke that was cleared by non hardcore raids in no time. Ofc your going to hemorrhage subs then. | ||
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Spaylz
Japan1743 Posts
Most games have been trying to steer away from that. When you think about it, GW2 actually has a TON of content. Just none of it matches the very clear endgame characteristics gamers seem to expect. Jumping Puzzles, exploration (those two alone represent a loooot of hours if you actually want to uncover everything), WvWvW, sPvP, personal story, mini-games, etc... Perhaps it's a choice companies have been making. We'll see about Wild Star and ESO which, with their business model, probably hope to tap into Blizzard's player base and most likely FFXIV a bit too. With all due respect, you can't really compare a car with a video game. In the last 60 years, cars have changed in design and performance. That much can be applied to games, as newer games have better graphics and sometimes better interface. The rest however, content, etc, cannot be compared to a car at all, so I don't believe your metaphor applies. MMOs belong to the more complex games, where you need to do a little more than releasing a slightly more rich game to succeed. I mean, look at CoD. Same damn game for like.. 5 years or more, and it's still hitting strong. All because the FPS genre is much, much simpler than the MMORPG genre. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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Excludos
Norway7990 Posts
On January 28 2014 04:45 Sufficiency wrote: In f2p games the risk of losing your account is also great. Do you know how long it takes to level an account to 30 in LoL? It takes about 150ish hours. Once you are there you are not going to risk getting banned unless you are really really dumb. I don't see why there would be a different approach to banning someone's account whether they're paying or not. If you're cheating or abusing the system, it doesn't matter if you pay 15 bucks a month or playing for free. You're going to get banned equally. | ||
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TJ31
630 Posts
On January 28 2014 08:46 Excludos wrote: I don't see why there would be a different approach to banning someone's account whether they're paying or not. If you're cheating or abusing the system, it doesn't matter if you pay 15 bucks a month or playing for free. You're going to get banned equally. He posted a reply to this post I believe: On January 27 2014 18:42 Soltanol wrote: Sometimes it just seems the whole MMO Market is a dead end atm and the morphing into F2P cant be stopped. Which i personally hate because in each and every f2p game i tried the community is just an abomination, people flaming and trolling with no repercussions because they know they can just make a new account (LoL is the prime example there). And yes: in WoW there are also kiddies and idiots and flamer but paying 13€ a month filters out a lot of them and the ones who are there are more hesitant to risk their accounts. And I agree with Suff on that. That's a very outdated point of view. WoW probably have the worst community of all, D3 was filled with hackers and exploiters when people actually played that, Tera's during its P2P release was filled with all of those too. ~15$ (+40$ for a key) barrier doesn't exists for years by now. It's not a lot, parents often pay for their kids etc. Not to mention that after a few months after release of any mmo, it's not hard to buy an account with chars and it'll cost even less than a new key. P2P model is almost dead, at least on the west, and I don't see any new game that might change that anytime soon. And to not be completely off-topic, TESO will be yet another example of that. | ||
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Excludos
Norway7990 Posts
On January 28 2014 11:45 TJ31 wrote: He posted a reply to this post I believe: And I agree with Suff on that. That's a very outdated point of view. WoW probably have the worst community of all, D3 was filled with hackers and exploiters when people actually played that, Tera's during its P2P release was filled with all of those too. ~15$ (+40$ for a key) barrier doesn't exists for years by now. It's not a lot, parents often pay for their kids etc. Not to mention that after a few months after release of any mmo, it's not hard to buy an account with chars and it'll cost even less than a new key. P2P model is almost dead, at least on the west, and I don't see any new game that might change that anytime soon. And to not be completely off-topic, TESO will be yet another example of that. I don't have anything to add to that. I completely agree. But I'm also willing (if not wishing) to be proven wrong. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On January 28 2014 08:46 Excludos wrote: I don't see why there would be a different approach to banning someone's account whether they're paying or not. If you're cheating or abusing the system, it doesn't matter if you pay 15 bucks a month or playing for free. You're going to get banned equally. Sorry I don't understand your point. Frankly, I am almost 100% sure Riot does not care shit about how much you spent on the game. Their pockets are full of money. They care more about the damage a toxic player can cause for the rest of the community. | ||
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