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Oh it was definitely with the ninja flip ring on.
Shieldless as magic only (no weap) user started pretty hard but got ridiculous to the point where I killed O&S on first try. After that cakewalk, ennemies would not get close enough to melee me anyway.
Second one was 2h melee only. Hardest O&S of my 3 chars, think I ended up summoning. Also fun times with the 2 archers before them. Ended up ok, last boss was a joke.
Should mention that all were made with xbox version, so no additional content and ninja flip ring still OP.
You tried to beat all kings at once ? Sounds crazy 0_0
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In NG++ and higher, 4K is probably my favorite fight to be honest.
You can dodge everything in this fight and it's challenging without being bullshitty ( like O&S can be sometimes )
To be true, the ninja flip is kind of broken when you start to know what you"re doing. I play somewhat shieldless with all of Ciaran equipment ( + Pharis bow + a small shield in emergency ) and I'm under 25% load. When you know the game a bit, dodging every attack of the game isn't all that hard with the ninja ring.
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On June 25 2013 20:09 Noocta wrote:
In NG++ and higher, 4K is probably my favorite fight to be honest.
You can dodge everything in this fight and it's challenging without being bullshitty ( like O&S can be sometimes )
I don't see how you can say that their ranged attack isn't bullshitty.. it's so ridiculous that it's actually faster than sub 50% rolls... as in, even if you constantly roll in one direction, it will hit you. You have to make it curve around to dodge it, which is obviously quite hard to do while two kings are slashing with their ridiculous range at you (and if I'm not mistaken, their attacks do far more damage if you're not extremely close to them).
The only thing I find bullshitty about S&O is:
1. Ornstein can stab you through smough. This makes sense, spears penetrate almost anything in Dark Souls, but it's really cheap when you're fighting smough and suddenly ornstein owns your ass through his stomach, since you couldn't see him because Smough is so huge.
2. Ornsteins jump bugging out and he starts to zap around the room, like a move out of DBZ.
Should be noted that I abused the ninja ring in my first playthrough but found it a bit too OP, I don't play with it since. I honestly hope it doesn't return in Dark Souls 2.
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Pretty sure the ranged attack on 4 kings is only used at a certain distance. All the others are pretty dodge able.
Just get a shield out and take the hit and heal up. I doubt DWGR will return in dark souls 2. Its already been nerfd once and
I think the developers commented on it already. Also, according to people who played dark souls 2 at e3, the iframes on rolling was heavily nerf'd as well.
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Also speaking of Four Kings, I´ve come up with a challenge: "Kill Four Kings without killing any kings".
Haven´t tried it myself yet and im not sure if it possible but as new kings keep spawning you in theory could damage single king to below 10% and then move to the next.
Obviously SL <50 lets not make it too easy
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United States12240 Posts
On June 25 2013 20:09 Noocta wrote:
In NG++ and higher, 4K is probably my favorite fight to be honest.
You can dodge everything in this fight and it's challenging without being bullshitty ( like O&S can be sometimes )
To be true, the ninja flip is kind of broken when you start to know what you"re doing. I play somewhat shieldless with all of Ciaran equipment ( + Pharis bow + a small shield in emergency ) and I'm under 25% load. When you know the game a bit, dodging every attack of the game isn't all that hard with the ninja ring.
I was stuck on 4K for quite a while until I ultimately upgraded a weapon to +15 (I picked the Painting Guardian Sword because my Dex was already really high). My main weapon for the rest of the game was Lifehunt Scythe and it made 4K really difficult because of the self-bleed damage on striking and the fact that your assault has to be unrelenting. On NG+ I managed to do it with Lifehunt Scythe by buying a lot of red moss and using one between each King while wearing a Bloodbite Ring and Shield, but on NG I had to choose the Painting Guardian Sword because it just wasn't going to happen otherwise.
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Doing an SL4 no elemental playthrough right now, and I'm dreading Four Kings haha. I think I might have to go red tear stone and darkwood grain ring and just hope to dodge enough to kill them quick.
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On June 25 2013 19:26 Tobberoth wrote:
To bump the topic:
Anyone agree that the Four Kings is a dumb fight? I don't understand what they were thinking when they designed it.
I mean, both times I've beaten it, I've done it in a pretty tanky fashion, first time in full havel gear, this time in ornstein gear... Run at boss, two hand weapon, ignore the bosses movements completely and wack away, heal to full as soon as it dies and wait for next. The boss is SO easy this way, and all other tactics seem specifically designed to be worse.
1. If you stay at range, they will use their imba magic missile which is borderline undodgeable and does good damage even through your shield. It lasts for 15 damn seconds and homes in on you like crazy. You never want them to ever cast this, but there's sometimes not much you can do, if the boss spawns too far away, you can't run to them in time.
2. Since you need to kill the kings FAST so that you're not gangraped, you need to stay close and attack constantly... however, the kings have two attacks which punish you hard for staying close (the grab and the aoe explosion)... not only that, the aoe explosion is cast so fast that you can barely dodge it. The immediate tell isn't obvious, which might make you roll sideways giving you too little time to back off... even below 50% weight and rolling twice, you will still get hit. One tactic (as a tanky dude) is to just ignore this move and tank it close to the boss since that lets you get back into the fight faster, but since the grab has the exact same attack animation and takes ages (giving other kings time to spawn), this is a dangerous tactic.
I hope Dark Souls 2 has better handling for bosses like this, where you can take your time and really learn their tells to be able to perfect bosses. I find Smough and Ornstein mostly acceptable because there's just two of them and you have ample time and space... the four kings though? Were they literally imagining that people would fight the boss and commonly fight several of the kings at once? Because I just can't imagine that being possible with the insane range and amazing magic missle spell they have. In S&O, you can beat the boss without using lock-on by being fast and keeping track of them, dodging their attacks and finding openings... against 4 kings, that's probably impossible.
I think it's an unfortunate combination of them trying to make an interesting mechanic in the "4 kings" coming out to fight, but they made the timer too quick so that those who DID have good dps weren't sitting there for 30 seconds waiting for the next king to crawl out. For that tough regime where 4K is overwhelming to do as intended and you need to DPS race it in superheavy gear, like you discuss, it seems like a bad fight. But, if you tried it legit and the timer between kings wasn't as quick, it could be a fun fight. It's just too easy to get overwhelmed if your dps isn't up to par, which makes it a dps check for many players, and simultaneously brain dead by throwing on ultraheavy gear and swinging for the fences, two problems that arguably none of the other bosses in the game have, which makes them stand out.
Perhaps a mechanic like the gargoyles where the next one comes out as the current one reaches some low percent (20%ish?). Or increase the timer between kings, but make the next one come out instantly if the current one dies, so there's no waiting/downtime.
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United States12240 Posts
On June 26 2013 01:25 Duka08 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 19:26 Tobberoth wrote:
To bump the topic:
Anyone agree that the Four Kings is a dumb fight? I don't understand what they were thinking when they designed it.
I mean, both times I've beaten it, I've done it in a pretty tanky fashion, first time in full havel gear, this time in ornstein gear... Run at boss, two hand weapon, ignore the bosses movements completely and wack away, heal to full as soon as it dies and wait for next. The boss is SO easy this way, and all other tactics seem specifically designed to be worse.
1. If you stay at range, they will use their imba magic missile which is borderline undodgeable and does good damage even through your shield. It lasts for 15 damn seconds and homes in on you like crazy. You never want them to ever cast this, but there's sometimes not much you can do, if the boss spawns too far away, you can't run to them in time.
2. Since you need to kill the kings FAST so that you're not gangraped, you need to stay close and attack constantly... however, the kings have two attacks which punish you hard for staying close (the grab and the aoe explosion)... not only that, the aoe explosion is cast so fast that you can barely dodge it. The immediate tell isn't obvious, which might make you roll sideways giving you too little time to back off... even below 50% weight and rolling twice, you will still get hit. One tactic (as a tanky dude) is to just ignore this move and tank it close to the boss since that lets you get back into the fight faster, but since the grab has the exact same attack animation and takes ages (giving other kings time to spawn), this is a dangerous tactic.
I hope Dark Souls 2 has better handling for bosses like this, where you can take your time and really learn their tells to be able to perfect bosses. I find Smough and Ornstein mostly acceptable because there's just two of them and you have ample time and space... the four kings though? Were they literally imagining that people would fight the boss and commonly fight several of the kings at once? Because I just can't imagine that being possible with the insane range and amazing magic missle spell they have. In S&O, you can beat the boss without using lock-on by being fast and keeping track of them, dodging their attacks and finding openings... against 4 kings, that's probably impossible. I think it's an unfortunate combination of them trying to make an interesting mechanic in the "4 kings" coming out to fight, but they made the timer too quick so that those who DID have good dps weren't sitting there for 30 seconds waiting for the next king to crawl out. For that tough regime where 4K is overwhelming to do as intended and you need to DPS race it in superheavy gear, like you discuss, it seems like a bad fight. But, if you tried it legit and the timer between kings wasn't as quick, it could be a fun fight. It's just too easy to get overwhelmed if your dps isn't up to par, which makes it a dps check for many players, and simultaneously brain dead by throwing on ultraheavy gear and swinging for the fences, two problems that arguably none of the other bosses in the game have, which makes them stand out. Perhaps a mechanic like the gargoyles where the next one comes out as the current one reaches some low percent (20%ish?). Or increase the timer between kings, but make the next one come out instantly if the current one dies, so there's no waiting/downtime.
The timer for 4K is actually pretty long, but if you kill the current King it will just instantly spawn the next one so you're not sitting there idle.
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On June 26 2013 01:47 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 01:25 Duka08 wrote:On June 25 2013 19:26 Tobberoth wrote:
To bump the topic:
Anyone agree that the Four Kings is a dumb fight? I don't understand what they were thinking when they designed it.
I mean, both times I've beaten it, I've done it in a pretty tanky fashion, first time in full havel gear, this time in ornstein gear... Run at boss, two hand weapon, ignore the bosses movements completely and wack away, heal to full as soon as it dies and wait for next. The boss is SO easy this way, and all other tactics seem specifically designed to be worse.
1. If you stay at range, they will use their imba magic missile which is borderline undodgeable and does good damage even through your shield. It lasts for 15 damn seconds and homes in on you like crazy. You never want them to ever cast this, but there's sometimes not much you can do, if the boss spawns too far away, you can't run to them in time.
2. Since you need to kill the kings FAST so that you're not gangraped, you need to stay close and attack constantly... however, the kings have two attacks which punish you hard for staying close (the grab and the aoe explosion)... not only that, the aoe explosion is cast so fast that you can barely dodge it. The immediate tell isn't obvious, which might make you roll sideways giving you too little time to back off... even below 50% weight and rolling twice, you will still get hit. One tactic (as a tanky dude) is to just ignore this move and tank it close to the boss since that lets you get back into the fight faster, but since the grab has the exact same attack animation and takes ages (giving other kings time to spawn), this is a dangerous tactic.
I hope Dark Souls 2 has better handling for bosses like this, where you can take your time and really learn their tells to be able to perfect bosses. I find Smough and Ornstein mostly acceptable because there's just two of them and you have ample time and space... the four kings though? Were they literally imagining that people would fight the boss and commonly fight several of the kings at once? Because I just can't imagine that being possible with the insane range and amazing magic missle spell they have. In S&O, you can beat the boss without using lock-on by being fast and keeping track of them, dodging their attacks and finding openings... against 4 kings, that's probably impossible. I think it's an unfortunate combination of them trying to make an interesting mechanic in the "4 kings" coming out to fight, but they made the timer too quick so that those who DID have good dps weren't sitting there for 30 seconds waiting for the next king to crawl out. For that tough regime where 4K is overwhelming to do as intended and you need to DPS race it in superheavy gear, like you discuss, it seems like a bad fight. But, if you tried it legit and the timer between kings wasn't as quick, it could be a fun fight. It's just too easy to get overwhelmed if your dps isn't up to par, which makes it a dps check for many players, and simultaneously brain dead by throwing on ultraheavy gear and swinging for the fences, two problems that arguably none of the other bosses in the game have, which makes them stand out. Perhaps a mechanic like the gargoyles where the next one comes out as the current one reaches some low percent (20%ish?). Or increase the timer between kings, but make the next one come out instantly if the current one dies, so there's no waiting/downtime. The timer for 4K is actually pretty long, but if you kill the current King it will just instantly spawn the next one so you're not sitting there idle.
Really? Was that a recent change or always? I've had times where I have at least 5-10 seconds to breathe and estus/buff up before the next one shows up. Always seemed like a static timer. Perhaps I'm wrong.
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On June 26 2013 01:56 Duka08 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 01:47 Excalibur_Z wrote:On June 26 2013 01:25 Duka08 wrote:On June 25 2013 19:26 Tobberoth wrote:
To bump the topic:
Anyone agree that the Four Kings is a dumb fight? I don't understand what they were thinking when they designed it.
I mean, both times I've beaten it, I've done it in a pretty tanky fashion, first time in full havel gear, this time in ornstein gear... Run at boss, two hand weapon, ignore the bosses movements completely and wack away, heal to full as soon as it dies and wait for next. The boss is SO easy this way, and all other tactics seem specifically designed to be worse.
1. If you stay at range, they will use their imba magic missile which is borderline undodgeable and does good damage even through your shield. It lasts for 15 damn seconds and homes in on you like crazy. You never want them to ever cast this, but there's sometimes not much you can do, if the boss spawns too far away, you can't run to them in time.
2. Since you need to kill the kings FAST so that you're not gangraped, you need to stay close and attack constantly... however, the kings have two attacks which punish you hard for staying close (the grab and the aoe explosion)... not only that, the aoe explosion is cast so fast that you can barely dodge it. The immediate tell isn't obvious, which might make you roll sideways giving you too little time to back off... even below 50% weight and rolling twice, you will still get hit. One tactic (as a tanky dude) is to just ignore this move and tank it close to the boss since that lets you get back into the fight faster, but since the grab has the exact same attack animation and takes ages (giving other kings time to spawn), this is a dangerous tactic.
I hope Dark Souls 2 has better handling for bosses like this, where you can take your time and really learn their tells to be able to perfect bosses. I find Smough and Ornstein mostly acceptable because there's just two of them and you have ample time and space... the four kings though? Were they literally imagining that people would fight the boss and commonly fight several of the kings at once? Because I just can't imagine that being possible with the insane range and amazing magic missle spell they have. In S&O, you can beat the boss without using lock-on by being fast and keeping track of them, dodging their attacks and finding openings... against 4 kings, that's probably impossible. I think it's an unfortunate combination of them trying to make an interesting mechanic in the "4 kings" coming out to fight, but they made the timer too quick so that those who DID have good dps weren't sitting there for 30 seconds waiting for the next king to crawl out. For that tough regime where 4K is overwhelming to do as intended and you need to DPS race it in superheavy gear, like you discuss, it seems like a bad fight. But, if you tried it legit and the timer between kings wasn't as quick, it could be a fun fight. It's just too easy to get overwhelmed if your dps isn't up to par, which makes it a dps check for many players, and simultaneously brain dead by throwing on ultraheavy gear and swinging for the fences, two problems that arguably none of the other bosses in the game have, which makes them stand out. Perhaps a mechanic like the gargoyles where the next one comes out as the current one reaches some low percent (20%ish?). Or increase the timer between kings, but make the next one come out instantly if the current one dies, so there's no waiting/downtime. The timer for 4K is actually pretty long, but if you kill the current King it will just instantly spawn the next one so you're not sitting there idle. Really? Was that a recent change or always? I've had times where I have at least 5-10 seconds to breathe and estus/buff up before the next one shows up. Always seemed like a static timer. Perhaps I'm wrong.
Yeah, the spawns are set, if you kill a king really fast it will actually take quite a while until the next one spawns. I think people generally fight them with good weapons, but in my tries I noticed you don't have to slack a whole lot to have a second one spawn. I guess it's possible the spawntime is shortened when you kill a king though.
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On June 26 2013 01:25 Duka08 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 19:26 Tobberoth wrote:
To bump the topic:
Anyone agree that the Four Kings is a dumb fight? I don't understand what they were thinking when they designed it.
I mean, both times I've beaten it, I've done it in a pretty tanky fashion, first time in full havel gear, this time in ornstein gear... Run at boss, two hand weapon, ignore the bosses movements completely and wack away, heal to full as soon as it dies and wait for next. The boss is SO easy this way, and all other tactics seem specifically designed to be worse.
1. If you stay at range, they will use their imba magic missile which is borderline undodgeable and does good damage even through your shield. It lasts for 15 damn seconds and homes in on you like crazy. You never want them to ever cast this, but there's sometimes not much you can do, if the boss spawns too far away, you can't run to them in time.
2. Since you need to kill the kings FAST so that you're not gangraped, you need to stay close and attack constantly... however, the kings have two attacks which punish you hard for staying close (the grab and the aoe explosion)... not only that, the aoe explosion is cast so fast that you can barely dodge it. The immediate tell isn't obvious, which might make you roll sideways giving you too little time to back off... even below 50% weight and rolling twice, you will still get hit. One tactic (as a tanky dude) is to just ignore this move and tank it close to the boss since that lets you get back into the fight faster, but since the grab has the exact same attack animation and takes ages (giving other kings time to spawn), this is a dangerous tactic.
I hope Dark Souls 2 has better handling for bosses like this, where you can take your time and really learn their tells to be able to perfect bosses. I find Smough and Ornstein mostly acceptable because there's just two of them and you have ample time and space... the four kings though? Were they literally imagining that people would fight the boss and commonly fight several of the kings at once? Because I just can't imagine that being possible with the insane range and amazing magic missle spell they have. In S&O, you can beat the boss without using lock-on by being fast and keeping track of them, dodging their attacks and finding openings... against 4 kings, that's probably impossible. I think it's an unfortunate combination of them trying to make an interesting mechanic in the "4 kings" coming out to fight, but they made the timer too quick so that those who DID have good dps weren't sitting there for 30 seconds waiting for the next king to crawl out. For that tough regime where 4K is overwhelming to do as intended and you need to DPS race it in superheavy gear, like you discuss, it seems like a bad fight. But, if you tried it legit and the timer between kings wasn't as quick, it could be a fun fight. It's just too easy to get overwhelmed if your dps isn't up to par, which makes it a dps check for many players, and simultaneously brain dead by throwing on ultraheavy gear and swinging for the fences, two problems that arguably none of the other bosses in the game have, which makes them stand out. Perhaps a mechanic like the gargoyles where the next one comes out as the current one reaches some low percent (20%ish?). Or increase the timer between kings, but make the next one come out instantly if the current one dies, so there's no waiting/downtime.
Another option would be if they changed the timer based on your weapon, so that instead of a dps race it became a skillrace. You have to be fast for the amount of damage your able to produce (obviously within certain limits to make sure it's not somehow cheesable).
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United States12240 Posts
On June 26 2013 01:56 Duka08 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 01:47 Excalibur_Z wrote:On June 26 2013 01:25 Duka08 wrote:On June 25 2013 19:26 Tobberoth wrote:
To bump the topic:
Anyone agree that the Four Kings is a dumb fight? I don't understand what they were thinking when they designed it.
I mean, both times I've beaten it, I've done it in a pretty tanky fashion, first time in full havel gear, this time in ornstein gear... Run at boss, two hand weapon, ignore the bosses movements completely and wack away, heal to full as soon as it dies and wait for next. The boss is SO easy this way, and all other tactics seem specifically designed to be worse.
1. If you stay at range, they will use their imba magic missile which is borderline undodgeable and does good damage even through your shield. It lasts for 15 damn seconds and homes in on you like crazy. You never want them to ever cast this, but there's sometimes not much you can do, if the boss spawns too far away, you can't run to them in time.
2. Since you need to kill the kings FAST so that you're not gangraped, you need to stay close and attack constantly... however, the kings have two attacks which punish you hard for staying close (the grab and the aoe explosion)... not only that, the aoe explosion is cast so fast that you can barely dodge it. The immediate tell isn't obvious, which might make you roll sideways giving you too little time to back off... even below 50% weight and rolling twice, you will still get hit. One tactic (as a tanky dude) is to just ignore this move and tank it close to the boss since that lets you get back into the fight faster, but since the grab has the exact same attack animation and takes ages (giving other kings time to spawn), this is a dangerous tactic.
I hope Dark Souls 2 has better handling for bosses like this, where you can take your time and really learn their tells to be able to perfect bosses. I find Smough and Ornstein mostly acceptable because there's just two of them and you have ample time and space... the four kings though? Were they literally imagining that people would fight the boss and commonly fight several of the kings at once? Because I just can't imagine that being possible with the insane range and amazing magic missle spell they have. In S&O, you can beat the boss without using lock-on by being fast and keeping track of them, dodging their attacks and finding openings... against 4 kings, that's probably impossible. I think it's an unfortunate combination of them trying to make an interesting mechanic in the "4 kings" coming out to fight, but they made the timer too quick so that those who DID have good dps weren't sitting there for 30 seconds waiting for the next king to crawl out. For that tough regime where 4K is overwhelming to do as intended and you need to DPS race it in superheavy gear, like you discuss, it seems like a bad fight. But, if you tried it legit and the timer between kings wasn't as quick, it could be a fun fight. It's just too easy to get overwhelmed if your dps isn't up to par, which makes it a dps check for many players, and simultaneously brain dead by throwing on ultraheavy gear and swinging for the fences, two problems that arguably none of the other bosses in the game have, which makes them stand out. Perhaps a mechanic like the gargoyles where the next one comes out as the current one reaches some low percent (20%ish?). Or increase the timer between kings, but make the next one come out instantly if the current one dies, so there's no waiting/downtime. The timer for 4K is actually pretty long, but if you kill the current King it will just instantly spawn the next one so you're not sitting there idle. Really? Was that a recent change or always? I've had times where I have at least 5-10 seconds to breathe and estus/buff up before the next one shows up. Always seemed like a static timer. Perhaps I'm wrong.
I've only played that far in the PC version, haven't tried it on 360. I could be wrong though. Reading up on wiki it seems like their spawns are timed so maybe I was just barely staying ahead of the spawn rate the whole time :o
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On June 26 2013 03:32 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 01:56 Duka08 wrote:On June 26 2013 01:47 Excalibur_Z wrote:On June 26 2013 01:25 Duka08 wrote:On June 25 2013 19:26 Tobberoth wrote:
To bump the topic:
Anyone agree that the Four Kings is a dumb fight? I don't understand what they were thinking when they designed it.
I mean, both times I've beaten it, I've done it in a pretty tanky fashion, first time in full havel gear, this time in ornstein gear... Run at boss, two hand weapon, ignore the bosses movements completely and wack away, heal to full as soon as it dies and wait for next. The boss is SO easy this way, and all other tactics seem specifically designed to be worse.
1. If you stay at range, they will use their imba magic missile which is borderline undodgeable and does good damage even through your shield. It lasts for 15 damn seconds and homes in on you like crazy. You never want them to ever cast this, but there's sometimes not much you can do, if the boss spawns too far away, you can't run to them in time.
2. Since you need to kill the kings FAST so that you're not gangraped, you need to stay close and attack constantly... however, the kings have two attacks which punish you hard for staying close (the grab and the aoe explosion)... not only that, the aoe explosion is cast so fast that you can barely dodge it. The immediate tell isn't obvious, which might make you roll sideways giving you too little time to back off... even below 50% weight and rolling twice, you will still get hit. One tactic (as a tanky dude) is to just ignore this move and tank it close to the boss since that lets you get back into the fight faster, but since the grab has the exact same attack animation and takes ages (giving other kings time to spawn), this is a dangerous tactic.
I hope Dark Souls 2 has better handling for bosses like this, where you can take your time and really learn their tells to be able to perfect bosses. I find Smough and Ornstein mostly acceptable because there's just two of them and you have ample time and space... the four kings though? Were they literally imagining that people would fight the boss and commonly fight several of the kings at once? Because I just can't imagine that being possible with the insane range and amazing magic missle spell they have. In S&O, you can beat the boss without using lock-on by being fast and keeping track of them, dodging their attacks and finding openings... against 4 kings, that's probably impossible. I think it's an unfortunate combination of them trying to make an interesting mechanic in the "4 kings" coming out to fight, but they made the timer too quick so that those who DID have good dps weren't sitting there for 30 seconds waiting for the next king to crawl out. For that tough regime where 4K is overwhelming to do as intended and you need to DPS race it in superheavy gear, like you discuss, it seems like a bad fight. But, if you tried it legit and the timer between kings wasn't as quick, it could be a fun fight. It's just too easy to get overwhelmed if your dps isn't up to par, which makes it a dps check for many players, and simultaneously brain dead by throwing on ultraheavy gear and swinging for the fences, two problems that arguably none of the other bosses in the game have, which makes them stand out. Perhaps a mechanic like the gargoyles where the next one comes out as the current one reaches some low percent (20%ish?). Or increase the timer between kings, but make the next one come out instantly if the current one dies, so there's no waiting/downtime. The timer for 4K is actually pretty long, but if you kill the current King it will just instantly spawn the next one so you're not sitting there idle. Really? Was that a recent change or always? I've had times where I have at least 5-10 seconds to breathe and estus/buff up before the next one shows up. Always seemed like a static timer. Perhaps I'm wrong. I've only played that far in the PC version, haven't tried it on 360. I could be wrong though. Reading up on wiki it seems like their spawns are timed so maybe I was just barely staying ahead of the spawn rate the whole time :o
I am pretty sure they are timed. Depending on how i did in that fight, i had both additional kings up at the same time and 5-10 second breaks between kings.
And i agree that the whole mechanic is rather silly. The additional kings add a random aspect to the fight depending on what they choose to do. Sometimes they do nothing at all and just hover around. Sometimes they stab you in the back for nearly all of your life. And sometimes they even throw their overpowered sorceries at you. So you are forced into the whole DPS race thing, which is also half random because its difficulty can vary a lot depending on what moves the king you are fighting chooses to use. Bomb costs a lot of time, soulsucking costs even more time. If he uses none of those, some swings are pretty easy to dodge completely, while others will still hit you.
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How much do you guys use lock-on?
Since I started playing the game on 360 (currently playing on PC), I've always used lock-on religiously... as in every single fight in the game, always. I heard some people say that the key to playing better (at least in PvP) was to learn when to use lock-on and when to not use it... but I always used it.
I started a new character yesterday to try a shield-less playthrough to get better at dodging, and decided to make it lock-less as well (just to see if I could do it, and also because it discourages use of the shield), and it turns out you actually get used to it quite quickly, and in some situations it's actually superior. I'm starting to wonder if maybe I should have used lock-on far less from the start.
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On June 26 2013 16:04 Tobberoth wrote:
How much do you guys use lock-on?
Since I started playing the game on 360 (currently playing on PC), I've always used lock-on religiously... as in every single fight in the game, always. I heard some people say that the key to playing better (at least in PvP) was to learn when to use lock-on and when to not use it... but I always used it.
I started a new character yesterday to try a shield-less playthrough to get better at dodging, and decided to make it lock-less as well (just to see if I could do it, and also because it discourages use of the shield), and it turns out you actually get used to it quite quickly, and in some situations it's actually superior. I'm starting to wonder if maybe I should have used lock-on far less from the start.
This is one of those things that I've never really done either (playing since not long after it came out on Xbox). Even to this day, currently playing 1-2 chars on a near daily basis, I'm still a lock-on whore. Probably 90%+ of the time. I've learned situations and enemies where I find it better not to use it, so I don't. But, for the most part I don't find it advantageous to play without it. Not that it's DISadvantageous to play without it either, of course. I just think it's totally personal preference.
This is all PvE of course. Back when I PvP'd it was very much dependent on what kind of setup I was rolling, weapons, flip ring or not, magic or not, etc.
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Are you talking about PvP or PvE ?
For PvE I can say that it depends on which enemy you are fighting, some are better to NOT lock on ( like asylum demon, taurus demon, capra demon, etc ) and for other boss fights you are pretty much forced to lock on if you want to block some attacks ( for example ornstein&smough ).
I can't tell if it's better to lock on in pvp or not but I guess it's the same thing, sometimes you want to lock on to block/attack and other times you might just want to be free to roll.
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On June 26 2013 16:23 BlitzerSC wrote:
Are you talking about PvP or PvE ?
For PvE I can say that it depends on which enemy you are fighting, some are better to NOT lock on ( like asylum demon, taurus demon, capra demon, etc ) and for other boss fights you are pretty much forced to lock on if you want to block some attacks ( for example ornstein&smough ).
I can't tell if it's better to lock on in pvp or not but I guess it's the same thing, sometimes you want to lock on to block/attack and other times you might just want to be free to roll.
I'm talking mainly PvE. At this point, I'm starting to question using lock-on even on Smough and Ornstein... now as you said, you need to lock on to block some stuff reliably, like Ornsteins leap... but from what I read in a guide for that fight, if you're not locked on but have ornstein on camera and initiate lock-on as he's leaping towards you, your character will turn around to face and block him immediately, which almost seems like a better way to handle it than staying locked on... (My tactic on Smough and Ornstein this run was to use shield+spear and keeping a lock on Ornstein 100% of the time, making sure Smough was between us, then using stabs with shield up to make sure Ornstein couldn't do any damage from behind smough).
The main thing I'm noticing though, is that the game is actually more fun without lock-on. The fights feel more dynamic, and it feels like your overview of the fight and surroundings become far better... tells from enemies are easier to notice etc.
EDIT: The one boss I'm worried about at the moment is Quelaag, I think she could be really hard without lock-on. (My tactic on her is basically to stay right in her face to her right, attacking her each time she swings her sword. She does almost no damage if you keep doing this and it becomes easy to dodge her attacks... but I can't imagine pulling this off without lock-on).
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It's funny because I have a totally different tactic to fight Queelag. I just go in front of her and wait for the lava attack animation, then I strafe on the sides and start attacking her legs while keeping the camera on her face to see if she is about to do the "wrath of the gods"-like attack which you are pretty much forced to dodge by running away. All of this without using lock on and without blocking anything.
The flaming sword attacks that she does rarely hit me, I don't know why.
edit: Also another easy way is to use the Black Knight Halberd and chain stun her to death, but I find that a little bit cheesy.
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Must say, so far my no shield no lock playthrough is going great. I find most of the bosses far easier now (indeed, just running around in front of quelaag and waiting for her lava spit was very effective). I'm playing as a thief and I'm not capping my leveling at all, so I already have 40 dex (I've put more or less nothing in vitality and endurance, seems it doesn't actually matter much, you still won't get oneshotted by attacks which aren't very easy to dodge anyway). With my +7 Iaito, that's quite a lot of damage indeed.
This is the part where it gets hard though, without the shield I find it hard to cross the bridges in sens fortress with the lightning snakes throwing shit at me. I'm considering maybe allowing myself to use a shield just to get past them, but I'll try a few times before I resort to that.
Any advice on what armor to go for? Now that I have 40 dex, I can let myself put some in endurance and I already have the ring of favor. The thief set is cool enough, but I want to decide on what armor to stick with before I start upgrading.
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EPT
