EPTOne of my favorite fighters, one of the best fights of the year cancelled.
Anger mixed with dissapointment, god damnit Overeem.
Overeem fails pre-UFC 146 drug test - Page 5
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Trizz
Netherlands1323 Posts
One of my favorite fighters, one of the best fights of the year cancelled. Anger mixed with dissapointment, god damnit Overeem. | ||
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
On April 07 2012 02:46 sob3k wrote: It seems slightly disingenuous to be railing against steroids because they arent perfectly healthy in a sport entirely based on beating the shit out each other, preferably until one contestant is incapacitated. Steroids are no more unhealthy than the aspirin people take for headaches. Actually they are probably much safer when used responsibly to treat health issues. Aspirin abuse kills you, steroid abuse can have serious health effects as well. Pretty much every drug used irresponsibly is bad for you. Yet people constantly single out steroids. If you've been told they're the worst thing in the world for you, you've been lied to. TRT I think is a smart step for sports. Testosterone levels in men over the age of 30 decline fairly rapidly. A fighter in his late 30s will on average have much lower levels than one in his early 20s. If that is "safe" why is the discrepancy between someone on steroids and someone who is not such a terrible concern to so many people? It needs to be regulated and discussion needs to be opened up, people don't need to be treated like criminals over a T/E ratio which doesn't actually tell us anything about his actual levels | ||
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Lann555
Netherlands5173 Posts
On April 07 2012 01:21 Dr.Lettuce wrote: I never said it was immediate. Body Builders hardly have a long life expectancy do they? That has probably more to do with the diet/exercise putting insane stress on the body. I really can't blame Overeem for taking roids. 95% of top level MMA fighters are taking substances, especially since they aren't tested for HGH, so taking that is pretty much a freebie. I am disappointed in Overeem for not being smart enough to dodge the drug-test though. It's really not that hard if you are careful  | ||
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ecstatica
United States542 Posts
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D10
Brazil3409 Posts
On April 07 2012 03:27 Lann555 wrote: That has probably more to do with the diet/exercise putting insane stress on the body. I really can't blame Overeem for taking roids. 95% of top level MMA fighters are taking substances, especially since they aren't tested for HGH, so taking that is pretty much a freebie. I am disappointed in Overeem for not being smart enough to dodge the drug-test though. It's really not that hard if you are careful Those numbers are thrown off all the time with no basis other than roiders saying everyone takes them. Theres a ton of fighters that dont "abuse" forbiden substances. And also realize that there are a ton of normal stuff that is considered a banned substance, like anti inflamatories, many kinds of pain killers, etc... If guys who use those in training and test clear for banned substance are abusers, then im with you, 95% must be abusing substances | ||
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krews
United States1308 Posts
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Dr.Lettuce
United Kingdom663 Posts
On April 09 2012 12:16 krews wrote: Overeem just applied for a license to NSAC, looks like there could be a loophole(money) No I don't think it's money. He wasn't actually licensed when he was busted. It's not a loophole it just a stupid system that doesn't account for problems like this. The reason I say it's not a loophole is because you can't control your contract expiration dates with them (to a degree) where you could abuse it. Otherwise you would be right. I think it's stated he will be appealing to the board he was under TRT. Keith Kizer also came out and said he didn't request a re-test on sample B - so no matter what, we know he pissed hot at that moment in time. He will probably claim this, as just after you inject your levels spike to ridiculous highs (14:1 etc) and then come back down a bit. So he will likely claim they just tested him after he injected recently. Fuck TRT and the stupid Nevada Athletic Commission. And honestly anyone that doesn't think Overeem is roiding can shut up. If he honestly had low levels of testosterone it would have been impossible for him to gain the size of lean muscle with no body fat from in a few years. Jumping from 205, bearing in mind he was already training MMA/K-1 Full time so he had great supplementation/cardio/training year round the clock (was in fucking awesome shape) to 250 is just not possible without PEDs. If you are already in tip-top fighting shape, adding on extra bulk is fucking difficult. If you're at 160 and don't train/diet. You could easily make a good bump up to 200 baring good genetics. The more you weigh keeping lean muscle and adding it, gets exponentially more difficult. There is no way in hell Overeem had low testosterone levels when he did this metamorphosis (if he wasn't roiding), so how can he possibly claim that he now needs TRT. This is beyond me. Dana hasn't announced a re-schedule of the fight card, and technically Overeem can still get licensed. JDS would take the fight because that's the kind of guy he is. It could happen. Dana wants it to happen. The vast majority of the MMA population wants it to happen. Falls down to the NSAC now. I honestly don't want the fight to happen under these circumstances. Sure down the line in the future when it's all clear but not now. If this goes ahead it sends the wrong message about what people stand for in the sport. Other fighters will be more tempted. In fact now, I hope Overeem does pass and takes the fight. And I hope JDS superman punches him through the cage. | ||
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Dr.Lettuce
United Kingdom663 Posts
Gonna be interesting when @Alistairovereem shows up with BLOOD tests to show his TOTAL Testosterone was in normal range. Brian @FrontRowBrian Only 1 way to determine total testosterone level and that's to draw blood. Urine simply tells you there's a synthetic agent present. Brian @FrontRowBrian If you're an @alistairovereem fan, book your arrangements for 5/26 Vegas. Don't believe the hype. Media has been incredibly unfair to him. SERIOUS MMA @SERIOUSMMA @FrontRowBrian Can't tell when you're being sarcastic anymore but if you don't think Alistair has used you have lost a lot of credibility. Brian Brian @FrontRowBrian @SERIOUSMMA Reem will be cleared to fight JDS So... it might be on after all. | ||
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Zooper31
United States5713 Posts
On April 07 2012 03:05 Epoch wrote: He should be kicked out along with all the other cheaters, send a message to those who think about doing this. It's fucking disgraceful. This. Why the fuck are they doing a 2nd test weeks or a month later? They are practically letting him get off the drugs before letting him take another test. Fail test? Ok test another test the same day or w/e. Fail that one? Ok kicked out of UFC. Pass second test? Cleared to fight, must have been a false positive. Thats how this shit sould've been run. They are basically ok'ing the usage of steroids, just don't get caught publicly with them. | ||
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Miyoshino
314 Posts
They actually had to tell the athletes: "Hey guys we now know how to detect HGH so stop using it." They didn't do any tests yet because then they would probably have caught about half of the athletes. If they had a test for IGF-1 and they would start to use it right now, the London Olympics and Euro 2012 would have to be canceled because almost everyone of relevance would be positive. I believe a lot of elite athletes right now are using IGF-1. They know they can't get caught and their are so many subtle advantages all across the board, if we extrapolate from research on patients and on rats. With all the advanced doping being available right now I won't be surprised if elite athletes can push off old age to lengthen their careers way above what we see now. We will be seeing elite athletes over 40. The biggest fight against PEDs has been in cycling. But cyclists have always avoided getting caught outright. Only when mistakes are made or when they get reckless the get caught. Most stuff we know we know from police raids and confessions. Doping control is a farse. Overeem got caught. Contador got caught. I don't believe that those that get caught are any more guilty than those that don't. I believe there are clean people in sports like MMA. But in endurance sports you just can't compete with dopers. The advantage of doping vs the advantage of talent is just too big. Yeah Overeem looked really ripped. Maybe his was a case of recklessness. The way he put on the muscle and the way he looked does seem suspicious. But that's not what I go off. I rather go off on facts. Maybe Overeem was just reckless with his dosing. I know in cycling they can still use EPO but they have to dose carefully. EPO increased their performances with like 20% and with the new refulations in place the huge performance boosts EPO gave is now gone and performances are no longer obviously superhuman. In WWE we know they all use sterioids. I don't see such a difference between what I see in WWE and what I see with the more muscular guys in MMA or K-1. When someone with a lot of talent, ie genetic endowement, uses doping, it is going to be a lot more obvious. During the EPO days being 'talented' basically came down to only one thing; how well does your body respond to epo treatment. So there are always going to be atheletes with less talent performing near the top because they are cheating and they don't stick out as much. So part of Overeem being suspicious also has to do with his genes and his work ethic. The whole body image popular now I think is basically unachievable without steroids. We all grew up with Hulk Hogan, Stallone and Schwarzenegger. Three famous steroid users. Right now we have shows like Spartacus. This extremely low fat look really starts to annoy me. The fact that this fight can probably still go on, if I am understanding this correctly, is kind of odd and shows they don't want athletes to stop PEDing and that they test only for public image. Cheating is cheating. If you set a rule and you break it, it doesn't matter if it is using PEDs or using brass knuckles or weighted gloves. Of course it also doesn't matter if he tests again and he is clean then, lol. If they allow the fight to go on they basically all admit to doping. If Dos Santos does not refuse to fight, he basically admits to doping as well. I say, get rid of doping controls. They are useless and it's not fair to those who get caught because they aren't any more guilty than anyone else. Then if you decide to prevent doping, lock all elite athletes in some kind of prison regime and have them under surveillance so you know they are almost certainly all clean. Because that's the only way that works. Especially considering future developments. Then you can also cancel all old world records in athletics. They are almost all performed with PEDs and you can't figure out the few clean ones that may be still among them for them dirty ones. No reason keeping them if you decide to clean up the sport. Then way into the future we still get the problem that everyone but elite athletes are using PEDs and that normal people outperform the most genetically gifted elite athletes. Who still cares about all this stuff then? | ||
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Corr
Denmark796 Posts
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TheDna
Germany577 Posts
On April 07 2012 03:11 Trizz wrote: I'm so fucking dissapointed in Overeem. One of my favorite fighters, one of the best fights of the year cancelled. Anger mixed with dissapointment, god damnit Overeem. This. I was so pumped for the fight... Now we got to watch JDS vs Mir -_- Nothing against Mir, but come on Overeem seemed to be on a different level compared to the other HWs. Now we have Overeem taking out Lesnar one i also loved watching in the UFC(I dont limke wrestling lol) and OVereem gone too. HW suddenly seems a lot less exciting But oh well about to watch JJ vs Rashad..  | ||
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NotSorry
United States6722 Posts
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simmeh
Canada2511 Posts
bigfoot silva fighting cain | ||
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Silidons
United States2813 Posts
On April 22 2012 12:59 NotSorry wrote: Not saying he wasn't juicing, but you're calling a 205 to 250 jump in a year impossible? Now that is bullshit, at 205 he was killing himself dehydrating and starving just to make weight and already at a training camp weight closer to 230-235. A change in diet and hitting the weights in exchange for cardio and that extra 15-20lbs of muscle over a year is nothing special. anyone who puts on 15-20lbs of muscle in a year is juicing, unless it's their first year working out. you realize how many guys lie about juicing? lol | ||
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Dr.Lettuce
United Kingdom663 Posts
Overeem, who was scheduled to meet Junior dos Santos for the UFC heavyweight title next month until the promotion replaced him with Frank Mir, issued a written statement explaining why his testosterone to epitestosterone ratio came back at an above-limit 14:1. The NSAC's T/E ratio limit is 6:1. In the statement, Overeem announced that he withdrew from UFC 146 and explained why his T/E ratio was so high. According to Overeem's camp, he withdraw on Friday and that's when the UFC decided to replace him with Mir. His manager Glenn Robinson told MMAFighting.com that Overeem didn’t, "formally withdraw his license application, he withdrew from the fight and asked for a continuance to hear the case so he can prove he is a clean fighter.' You can read the full statement below. To my friends and fans, I am deeply saddened to announce that on Friday, April 20, I respectfully withdrew from the May 26 event so that I can request a continuance until my situation with the Nevada State Athletic Commission is resolved. I cannot express how sorry I am to the Commission, Junior Dos Santos, the fans, the owners and employees of the UFC, my friends and family and anyone else who this has affected. I absolutely do not believe in, nor do I use performance-enhancing drugs. I am a clean fighter and I will do whatever it takes to prove this to everyone. Prior to the UFC 146 press conference in March, I aggravated an old rib injury on my left side. My doctor prescribed, and I accepted, an anti-inflammatory medication that was mixed with testosterone. I was completely unaware that testosterone was one of the ingredients in the medication. Although I was unaware, I do realize it is my job to know what I am putting into my body. I respect the Nevada Commissioners and Executive Director Keith Kizer and what they are doing to keep the sport of mixed martial arts regulated and safe for athletes. I look forward to working with them in the days and weeks ahead. Friends and fans, I ask for your patience as I work through this matter. Please support me. I promise to return to the Octagon soon. Ariel Helwani explains why withdrawing was the smartest option for Overeem: @arielhelwani As I tweeted Friday night, withdrawing his license application was the smartest thing Alistair could do at this point. If he would have went through with it and was found guilty, there is a good chance he would not have been able to fight in the US for a year. Now it's up to the NSAC to grant his request. Here's their language for a situation like this. Basically, they can grant his request with or without prejudice or they can go through with it tomorrow: NAC 467.014 Application for license: Request for withdrawal. (NRS 467.030, 467.100) 1. An applicant for a license may file a written request with the Commission to withdraw his or her application at any time before final action upon the application by the Commission. 2. In making a determination on a request to withdraw an application, the Commission may, in its discretion: (a) Deny the request; or (b) Grant the request with or without prejudice. 3. If the request for withdrawal is granted with prejudice, the applicant is not eligible to apply again for licensing until 1 year after the date the Commission grants the request. And below is precisely why Alistair withdrew his application: NAC 467.087 Application for new license or petition for reinstatement of license after denial, revocation or suspension.(NRS 467.030, 467.080, 467.100, 467.159) 1. Any applicant who has been denied a license by the Commission may not file a similar application until 1 year after denial. Source: http://www.leg.state.nv.us/nac/NAC-4...l#NAC467Sec012 And when we will most likely learn of the NSAC's response: @arielhelwani I asked NSAC Executive Director Keith Kizer over the weekend if Overeem had withdrawn his application yet, but he didn't reply. There's a good chance we'll only find out their response at tomorrow's hearing. The NSAC was informed of this request on Friday by Overeem's lawyers, who also mapped out everything written in today's statement. So we may have to wait another 24 hours before finding out Overeem's fate. Taken all from a forum I visit. Wow. Source: MMAFighting.com | ||
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NotSorry
United States6722 Posts
On April 23 2012 10:09 Silidons wrote: anyone who puts on 15-20lbs of muscle in a year is juicing, unless it's their first year working out. you realize how many guys lie about juicing? lol I've been in train/competing in boxing and mma for over 7 years now, trust me I know more than most just how many pros are juicing that have never been caught. However what I said above still stands. Even without juicing those results are possible, I'm not saying he didn't or he did, just that using that as the basis for your argument is terribly inaccurate. | ||
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ThatGuy
Canada695 Posts
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Zorkmid
4410 Posts
That leaves a really bad taste in my mouth. | ||
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Silidons
United States2813 Posts
On April 24 2012 04:11 NotSorry wrote: I've been in train/competing in boxing and mma for over 7 years now, trust me I know more than most just how many pros are juicing that have never been caught. However what I said above still stands. Even without juicing those results are possible, I'm not saying he didn't or he did, just that using that as the basis for your argument is terribly inaccurate. i've been a gym rat for about that same time too, and i also know people who tell everyone else they're natural when they're not. sure someone can put on 15-20lbs if they're dehydrated etc, but of pure 100% muscle? after working out for years? you can't put on 15-20lbs of muscle in a year after working out for 2 years... | ||
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