|
Whoa, I just realized that I may be taking a PED (Levothyroxine) for my hypothyroidism. IS that true? O_O
|
Massive let down. I was pumped about this fight.
I found it humorous that he had a 14-1 T/E, compared to Chael Sonnens 16-1 T/E. For the size of Alistair I would assume that he would have more than Chael.
|
On April 06 2012 19:26 Kyhol wrote:
Massive let down. I was pumped about this fight.
I found it humorous that he had a 14-1 T/E, compared to Chael Sonnens 16-1 T/E. For the size of Alistair I would assume that he would have more than Chael.
But for Chael it's ''ok'' cause he has only 1 ball.
I still find that weird...
|
why are roids banned anyways? it's not like you could just take some roids and win the UFC, you still need to put in the work
|
On April 05 2012 06:33 Baituri wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 06:25 wussleeQ wrote:On April 05 2012 06:18 Diizzy wrote:
im not surprise bahaha everyone always said he was on steroids. liek seriously he gain so much muscle when he was in pride til when he was in strikeforce/japan ![[image loading]](http://www.musclephilosophy.com/home/images/stories/overeem-timeline.jpg) such a difference.... o.o To be fair, the first 2 pictures are right before/after a weight cut. The last 2 pictures are during/after a fight and his muscles are all swollen.
He is still got really big in a few years, but those pictures don't really give the right perspective. Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 06:31 Dr.Lettuce wrote:
God damnit Overeem.
Everyone knew you were on steroids- you hid it fucking well. And you get caught with an elevated testosterone level? No offence but at the top level you should be cycling your roids better than that ffs.
So I guess course of action for him is to submit sample B. Hope it comes back negative and let his decent PR squad handle the rest. If sample B comes back positive... claim you have no idea why... standard transparent practice. Was really looking forward to his fight against JDS.
So who gets bumped up now? Mir as he's on a 3 fight winstreak? HW division suddenly seems to have a serious lack of legit contenders.
However I think it's now 100% safe to say, yes Overeem had achieved his transformation with the help of banned competitive supplements.
Btw to anyone interested T/E Ratio =
testosterone/epitestosterone ratio
Epitestosterone is very similar to testosterone, but its levels are not normally elevated by any type of juicing. In an average adult male, the levels are close to 1:1, but because athletics can increase testosterone the WADA allows for a 4:1 ratio. Some professional sports even allow for a 6:1 ratio. A 10:1 ratio is a CLEAR indicator that his testosterone levels are way higher than they should be! I'd like to see Mir vs Dos Santos, Velasquez vs Werdum for the No.1 contender and Russow vs Carwin or something. Carwin is expected to come back Mid 2012. If Carwin wins Russow is a nice stepping stone for him and otherwise it will give Russow a big boost. I don't think Carwin should get a huge opponent yet, he lost his last 2 fights (Brock and Dos Santos) and comes of an injury...
Kind of funny how you defend him by saying that the two last pics are in a fight.. Unlike the third to last picture? 
|
On April 06 2012 20:25 mememolly wrote:
why are roids banned anyways? it's not like you could just take some roids and win the UFC, you still need to put in the work
First off it gives you an unfair advantage. The strength gains and cardio gains can be phenomenal. If you're training like an animal and take roids, your training can be soooo much more intense and give you disgusting advantages in a fight. You recover from injuries quicker. If you're fighting another guy and you've both been training for months, but you've been less hindered than him from injuries, able to do everything for longer and harder; and when fight time comes you're still pumped up you have an advantage. Not to mention the mental advantage of knowing that you are stronger than him in many physical aspects.
However the real reason they are banned, is because they cause so much damage to people long term. Roids are illegal for a reason- they seriously fuck you up. If they weren't anybody who wanted to compete in any sort of sport would take roids.
I'm just stealing this quote from a guy on a mma forum I know, and this guy knows a fuck load about PEDs:
That's the thing about steroids, once (or if) he stops he's toast. At least for the next few years. His body's natural hormone manufacturing has been destroyed by pumping artificial levels. If he stops, his cardio is going to be shot, he'll go through depression, lose a lot of muscle, might develop Cushing's syndrome etc. It would take years for his body to get back to normal.
So no, his past steroid use would generally count against him not for. He might be able to keep some of that muscle (most of it will go though), but it'd be rough going for a long time, and in the meantime everything else would be going haywire.
Of course if he didn't stop, he'd probably have a heart attack, liver disease, kidney disease, hypogonadism etc. eventually anyway. That's why steroids are a lose-lose proposition kids.
Basically what would happen to him is what I suspect happened to Filho and (don't hate me) Shogun when I think they went cold turkey on coming to stricter testing in the US from Japan. Their cardios died inexplicably, their bodies lost definition, and they went into depressive spins.
No anabolic steroid is harmless. There's better people than internet bodybuilders and back alley peddlers doing research into this stuff and marking stuff off as OTC, prescription, emergency etc.
If it was harmless, it would be a legal supplement. Peoples' desires to take the shortcuts in life and get ripped quick aren't gonna change the facts.
In fact, the very nature of the thing makes it impossible to be harmless. These are chemicals made by your body as regulator switches. They're not some magic nutrition your body needs from outside, there's a reason it's maintaining those switches at certain levels and that's because it doesn't want to overload. Like putting 10000 Volts onto a 240V motor.
People think they're being very clever by putting in more of this switch ... the body isn't stupid, it could've made up a bucket full of that stuff if it wanted, it doesn't need it. They're not very resource intensive chemicals for the body to make you know.
You put in extra, well the body just lowers it's own production, because it doesn't want to kill it's heart and organs that are not capable of functioning at those levels. ANY steroid has that basic principle, because you're dealing with the same mechanism here.
What the body does need is nutrition, things it can't make on it's own. But no, that's too slow, and we can't be bothered to take the long, hard, painful and consistent route.
Sure, you could do just a little bit of steroids, and it might not mess you up. Actually it would, but just by the amount you're putting in. Small amount, small messups, perhaps not even noticable, but then the gains are small too.
But slowly, those small amounts would have less and less effect, as your body gets used to it and compensates. Then you just need a little bit more. Surely if it's been fine so far, just a smidge more couldn't hurt?
Whoops that little extra smidge is causing just a little problem with the cardio, or the skin, or the recovery. Well, no problem! Just take this OTHER one to compensate for the side-effects. Just a smidge of course.... whoops...
And before you know it, you've got a gas pump pumping you full of synthetic horse testosterone and whale piss.
Sorry I just lifted some stuff he said- (so it may be slightly out of context) that I felt was relevant and explained my points far better than I did.
|
There's also the cost element. If you allow juicing, then large advantages can be gained simply by having more cash than your opponent. Of course, this is somewhat true already since richer competitors can afford better training facilities/experts/more in-depth analysis, but if you open the field to a pill giving certain people huge advantages, then you run into serious problems.
|
Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 20:50 Dr.Lettuce wrote:On April 06 2012 20:25 mememolly wrote:
why are roids banned anyways? it's not like you could just take some roids and win the UFC, you still need to put in the work First off it gives you an unfair advantage. The strength gains and cardio gains can be phenomenal. If you're training like an animal and take roids, your training can be soooo much more intense and give you disgusting advantages in a fight. You recover from injuries quicker. If you're fighting another guy and you've both been training for months, but you've been less hindered than him from injuries, able to do everything for longer and harder; and when fight time comes you're still pumped up you have an advantage. Not to mention the mental advantage of knowing that you are stronger than him in many physical aspects. However the real reason they are banned, is because they cause so much damage to people long term. Roids are illegal for a reason- they seriously fuck you up. If they weren't anybody who wanted to compete in any sort of sport would take roids. I'm just stealing this quote from a guy on a mma forum I know, and this guy knows a fuck load about PEDs: That's the thing about steroids, once (or if) he stops he's toast. At least for the next few years. His body's natural hormone manufacturing has been destroyed by pumping artificial levels. If he stops, his cardio is going to be shot, he'll go through depression, lose a lot of muscle, might develop Cushing's syndrome etc. It would take years for his body to get back to normal. So no, his past steroid use would generally count against him not for. He might be able to keep some of that muscle (most of it will go though), but it'd be rough going for a long time, and in the meantime everything else would be going haywire. Of course if he didn't stop, he'd probably have a heart attack, liver disease, kidney disease, hypogonadism etc. eventually anyway. That's why steroids are a lose-lose proposition kids. Basically what would happen to him is what I suspect happened to Filho and (don't hate me) Shogun when I think they went cold turkey on coming to stricter testing in the US from Japan. Their cardios died inexplicably, their bodies lost definition, and they went into depressive spins. No anabolic steroid is harmless. There's better people than internet bodybuilders and back alley peddlers doing research into this stuff and marking stuff off as OTC, prescription, emergency etc. If it was harmless, it would be a legal supplement. Peoples' desires to take the shortcuts in life and get ripped quick aren't gonna change the facts. In fact, the very nature of the thing makes it impossible to be harmless. These are chemicals made by your body as regulator switches. They're not some magic nutrition your body needs from outside, there's a reason it's maintaining those switches at certain levels and that's because it doesn't want to overload. Like putting 10000 Volts onto a 240V motor. People think they're being very clever by putting in more of this switch ... the body isn't stupid, it could've made up a bucket full of that stuff if it wanted, it doesn't need it. They're not very resource intensive chemicals for the body to make you know. You put in extra, well the body just lowers it's own production, because it doesn't want to kill it's heart and organs that are not capable of functioning at those levels. ANY steroid has that basic principle, because you're dealing with the same mechanism here. What the body does need is nutrition, things it can't make on it's own. But no, that's too slow, and we can't be bothered to take the long, hard, painful and consistent route. Sure, you could do just a little bit of steroids, and it might not mess you up. Actually it would, but just by the amount you're putting in. Small amount, small messups, perhaps not even noticable, but then the gains are small too. But slowly, those small amounts would have less and less effect, as your body gets used to it and compensates. Then you just need a little bit more. Surely if it's been fine so far, just a smidge more couldn't hurt? Whoops that little extra smidge is causing just a little problem with the cardio, or the skin, or the recovery. Well, no problem! Just take this OTHER one to compensate for the side-effects. Just a smidge of course.... whoops... And before you know it, you've got a gas pump pumping you full of synthetic horse testosterone and whale piss. Sorry I just lifted some stuff he said- (so it may be slightly out of context) that I felt was relevant and explained my points far better than I did.
You could argue that all sports played at a professional level is unhealthy though, and that by allowing enhancement drugs you could get several positive benefits:
a) You would even the playing field
b) There would be better and safer use of enhancement drugs
c) Knowledge about the subject would increase, thus lessening the dangers to society from enhancement drugs
d) You would be able to regulate the market more, as well as taxing use of enhancement drugs
e) It would make companies put more resources into researching better enhancement drugs that have less severe negative effects, as well as probably other positive effects. Many enhancement drugs are just medicines for different diseases being used in a different way than what was intended.
|
but if roids were legal then it would level the playing field and no one could gain an unfair advantage from them as all fighters would have the same chance to use them, as for them fucking you up, surely that is the fighters choice, as long as he is aware of the risks then what is the problem? how is taking roids any different than having a certain dietary program or whatever? to me it seems like a double standard to say you can do this to gain an advantage but not this
|
On April 06 2012 21:27 mememolly wrote:
but if roids were legal then it would level the playing field and no one could gain an unfair advantage from them as all fighters would have the same chance to use them, as for them fucking you up, surely that is the fighters choice, as long as he is aware of the risks then what is the problem? how is taking roids any different than having a certain dietary program or whatever? to me it seems like a double standard to say you can do this to gain an advantage but not this
Why not make weapons legal!
Why not make body enhancement legal!
Why can't I bring a partner into the ring?!
Why can't I eye gouge.
Why can't I attack the groin.
Why have weight classes!
Your "double standards" argument is not an argument.
|
On April 06 2012 21:40 StUfF wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 21:27 mememolly wrote:
but if roids were legal then it would level the playing field and no one could gain an unfair advantage from them as all fighters would have the same chance to use them, as for them fucking you up, surely that is the fighters choice, as long as he is aware of the risks then what is the problem? how is taking roids any different than having a certain dietary program or whatever? to me it seems like a double standard to say you can do this to gain an advantage but not this Why not make weapons legal! Why not make body enhancement legal! Why can't I bring a partner into the ring?! Why can't I eye gouge. Why can't I attack the groin. Why have weight classes! Your "double standards" argument is not an argument.
But there is one thing that separates your examples from enhancement drugs and that is that those things are all easily enforceable. Enhancement drugs on the other hand has been proven time and time again to be really really hard to stop.
|
|
|
On April 06 2012 21:09 Grend wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 20:50 Dr.Lettuce wrote:On April 06 2012 20:25 mememolly wrote:
why are roids banned anyways? it's not like you could just take some roids and win the UFC, you still need to put in the work First off it gives you an unfair advantage. The strength gains and cardio gains can be phenomenal. If you're training like an animal and take roids, your training can be soooo much more intense and give you disgusting advantages in a fight. You recover from injuries quicker. If you're fighting another guy and you've both been training for months, but you've been less hindered than him from injuries, able to do everything for longer and harder; and when fight time comes you're still pumped up you have an advantage. Not to mention the mental advantage of knowing that you are stronger than him in many physical aspects. However the real reason they are banned, is because they cause so much damage to people long term. Roids are illegal for a reason- they seriously fuck you up. If they weren't anybody who wanted to compete in any sort of sport would take roids. I'm just stealing this quote from a guy on a mma forum I know, and this guy knows a fuck load about PEDs: That's the thing about steroids, once (or if) he stops he's toast. At least for the next few years. His body's natural hormone manufacturing has been destroyed by pumping artificial levels. If he stops, his cardio is going to be shot, he'll go through depression, lose a lot of muscle, might develop Cushing's syndrome etc. It would take years for his body to get back to normal. So no, his past steroid use would generally count against him not for. He might be able to keep some of that muscle (most of it will go though), but it'd be rough going for a long time, and in the meantime everything else would be going haywire. Of course if he didn't stop, he'd probably have a heart attack, liver disease, kidney disease, hypogonadism etc. eventually anyway. That's why steroids are a lose-lose proposition kids. Basically what would happen to him is what I suspect happened to Filho and (don't hate me) Shogun when I think they went cold turkey on coming to stricter testing in the US from Japan. Their cardios died inexplicably, their bodies lost definition, and they went into depressive spins. No anabolic steroid is harmless. There's better people than internet bodybuilders and back alley peddlers doing research into this stuff and marking stuff off as OTC, prescription, emergency etc. If it was harmless, it would be a legal supplement. Peoples' desires to take the shortcuts in life and get ripped quick aren't gonna change the facts. In fact, the very nature of the thing makes it impossible to be harmless. These are chemicals made by your body as regulator switches. They're not some magic nutrition your body needs from outside, there's a reason it's maintaining those switches at certain levels and that's because it doesn't want to overload. Like putting 10000 Volts onto a 240V motor. People think they're being very clever by putting in more of this switch ... the body isn't stupid, it could've made up a bucket full of that stuff if it wanted, it doesn't need it. They're not very resource intensive chemicals for the body to make you know. You put in extra, well the body just lowers it's own production, because it doesn't want to kill it's heart and organs that are not capable of functioning at those levels. ANY steroid has that basic principle, because you're dealing with the same mechanism here. What the body does need is nutrition, things it can't make on it's own. But no, that's too slow, and we can't be bothered to take the long, hard, painful and consistent route. Sure, you could do just a little bit of steroids, and it might not mess you up. Actually it would, but just by the amount you're putting in. Small amount, small messups, perhaps not even noticable, but then the gains are small too. But slowly, those small amounts would have less and less effect, as your body gets used to it and compensates. Then you just need a little bit more. Surely if it's been fine so far, just a smidge more couldn't hurt? Whoops that little extra smidge is causing just a little problem with the cardio, or the skin, or the recovery. Well, no problem! Just take this OTHER one to compensate for the side-effects. Just a smidge of course.... whoops... And before you know it, you've got a gas pump pumping you full of synthetic horse testosterone and whale piss. Sorry I just lifted some stuff he said- (so it may be slightly out of context) that I felt was relevant and explained my points far better than I did. You could argue that all sports played at a professional level is unhealthy though, and that by allowing enhancement drugs you could get several positive benefits: a) You would even the playing field b) There would be better and safer use of enhancement drugs c) Knowledge about the subject would increase, thus lessening the dangers to society from enhancement drugs d) You would be able to regulate the market more, as well as taxing use of enhancement drugs e) It would make companies put more resources into researching better enhancement drugs that have less severe negative effects, as well as probably other positive effects. Many enhancement drugs are just medicines for different diseases being used in a different way than what was intended.
I completely disagree with your train of thought. Why is all sports played at a professional level unhealthy?
Evening the playing field is the point. But in the reverse form, have everyone on a neutral level. Not everyone on roids. Same principle as nuclear weapons, the optimal solution isn't for everyone to have them, it's for no one.
There already is a safe use of certain enhancement drugs. The stuff these guys are using is dangerous in the long term. It's banned for a reason. There is so much research supporting this.
Knowledge about the subject of PED's is immense. Certain drugs are completely legal and safely regulated with research being conducted by many groups. In the same way that certain PED's are just 100% going to fuck you up, the research has been conducted and these substances banned for a reason.
It's not about regulating the market, this is not a similar situation to cannabis etc. If a substance is introduced that can cause physical effects with serious negative effects long term and is linked to many violent mental induced conditions. It should not be viewed with a liberal lens. It should not be 'Oh look here is dangerous substance X- lets educate everyone about it and then if they still want to use it let them.' That is such a backwards train of though and doesn't work in the real world.
Many enhancement drugs are not just regular medicines for different disease being used in a different way.
|
On April 06 2012 21:27 mememolly wrote:
but if roids were legal then it would level the playing field and no one could gain an unfair advantage from them as all fighters would have the same chance to use them, as for them fucking you up, surely that is the fighters choice, as long as he is aware of the risks then what is the problem? how is taking roids any different than having a certain dietary program or whatever? to me it seems like a double standard to say you can do this to gain an advantage but not this
Taking steroids is not similar to any form of dietary program. The hormones produced by your body are heavily regulated internally for a chemical balance. These can be changed of course with exercise, training, diet and supplementation within reason. Many PED's completely out of sync the human body to completely unnatural levels. Do you really think that any kind of type diet will end up with you having so much testosterone, that your balls stop producing the chemical because you are so jacked up on it. Then when you stop taking it, your balls are now physically unable to make it and thus you have to start TRT (Testosterone replacement therapy). I'm sorry but you are completely wrong.
By allowing it, you literally make anyone that wants to compete in MMA, have to start taking steroids. There is no argument against it. Anderson Silva is incredible. The same guy abusing roids, would be even more incredible. Think about all the young guys just getting in to the sport. You effectively create an atmosphere that is unless you take steroids you will never reach the top. That is the wrong message for any sport.
Like I said, the aim is to make it an fair playing field. So that everyone is neutral, not jacked up. Why should it be the fighters choice? Why would an honest fighter who has trained his whole life agree to fight against other people who trained their whole lives, but have changed their bodies in such unnatural ways they have supreme advantages. Whilst it technically is the choice of the fighter, there is the wrong and right choice. I honestly think it's so black and white. Don't fucking roid.
It is not a double standard at all. I sincerely urge you to watch 'bigger faster stronger' a documentary on steroid use. Then go and read some academia on the subject. Fuck steroids. End of.
|
On April 06 2012 21:47 Grend wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 21:40 StUfF wrote:On April 06 2012 21:27 mememolly wrote:
but if roids were legal then it would level the playing field and no one could gain an unfair advantage from them as all fighters would have the same chance to use them, as for them fucking you up, surely that is the fighters choice, as long as he is aware of the risks then what is the problem? how is taking roids any different than having a certain dietary program or whatever? to me it seems like a double standard to say you can do this to gain an advantage but not this Why not make weapons legal! Why not make body enhancement legal! Why can't I bring a partner into the ring?! Why can't I eye gouge. Why can't I attack the groin. Why have weight classes! Your "double standards" argument is not an argument. But there is one thing that separates your examples from enhancement drugs and that is that those things are all easily enforceable. Enhancement drugs on the other hand has been proven time and time again to be really really hard to stop.
Is that a good enough reason to not have a rule? because that it is hard to enforce?
Colluding/Match-fixing is pretty hard to enforce. Should we let it be legal?
|
Not a surprise at all, humans just don't look like that naturally.
|
On April 06 2012 22:11 Dr.Lettuce wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 21:09 Grend wrote:On April 06 2012 20:50 Dr.Lettuce wrote:On April 06 2012 20:25 mememolly wrote:
why are roids banned anyways? it's not like you could just take some roids and win the UFC, you still need to put in the work First off it gives you an unfair advantage. The strength gains and cardio gains can be phenomenal. If you're training like an animal and take roids, your training can be soooo much more intense and give you disgusting advantages in a fight. You recover from injuries quicker. If you're fighting another guy and you've both been training for months, but you've been less hindered than him from injuries, able to do everything for longer and harder; and when fight time comes you're still pumped up you have an advantage. Not to mention the mental advantage of knowing that you are stronger than him in many physical aspects. However the real reason they are banned, is because they cause so much damage to people long term. Roids are illegal for a reason- they seriously fuck you up. If they weren't anybody who wanted to compete in any sort of sport would take roids. I'm just stealing this quote from a guy on a mma forum I know, and this guy knows a fuck load about PEDs: That's the thing about steroids, once (or if) he stops he's toast. At least for the next few years. His body's natural hormone manufacturing has been destroyed by pumping artificial levels. If he stops, his cardio is going to be shot, he'll go through depression, lose a lot of muscle, might develop Cushing's syndrome etc. It would take years for his body to get back to normal. So no, his past steroid use would generally count against him not for. He might be able to keep some of that muscle (most of it will go though), but it'd be rough going for a long time, and in the meantime everything else would be going haywire. Of course if he didn't stop, he'd probably have a heart attack, liver disease, kidney disease, hypogonadism etc. eventually anyway. That's why steroids are a lose-lose proposition kids. Basically what would happen to him is what I suspect happened to Filho and (don't hate me) Shogun when I think they went cold turkey on coming to stricter testing in the US from Japan. Their cardios died inexplicably, their bodies lost definition, and they went into depressive spins. No anabolic steroid is harmless. There's better people than internet bodybuilders and back alley peddlers doing research into this stuff and marking stuff off as OTC, prescription, emergency etc. If it was harmless, it would be a legal supplement. Peoples' desires to take the shortcuts in life and get ripped quick aren't gonna change the facts. In fact, the very nature of the thing makes it impossible to be harmless. These are chemicals made by your body as regulator switches. They're not some magic nutrition your body needs from outside, there's a reason it's maintaining those switches at certain levels and that's because it doesn't want to overload. Like putting 10000 Volts onto a 240V motor. People think they're being very clever by putting in more of this switch ... the body isn't stupid, it could've made up a bucket full of that stuff if it wanted, it doesn't need it. They're not very resource intensive chemicals for the body to make you know. You put in extra, well the body just lowers it's own production, because it doesn't want to kill it's heart and organs that are not capable of functioning at those levels. ANY steroid has that basic principle, because you're dealing with the same mechanism here. What the body does need is nutrition, things it can't make on it's own. But no, that's too slow, and we can't be bothered to take the long, hard, painful and consistent route. Sure, you could do just a little bit of steroids, and it might not mess you up. Actually it would, but just by the amount you're putting in. Small amount, small messups, perhaps not even noticable, but then the gains are small too. But slowly, those small amounts would have less and less effect, as your body gets used to it and compensates. Then you just need a little bit more. Surely if it's been fine so far, just a smidge more couldn't hurt? Whoops that little extra smidge is causing just a little problem with the cardio, or the skin, or the recovery. Well, no problem! Just take this OTHER one to compensate for the side-effects. Just a smidge of course.... whoops... And before you know it, you've got a gas pump pumping you full of synthetic horse testosterone and whale piss. Sorry I just lifted some stuff he said- (so it may be slightly out of context) that I felt was relevant and explained my points far better than I did. You could argue that all sports played at a professional level is unhealthy though, and that by allowing enhancement drugs you could get several positive benefits: a) You would even the playing field b) There would be better and safer use of enhancement drugs c) Knowledge about the subject would increase, thus lessening the dangers to society from enhancement drugs d) You would be able to regulate the market more, as well as taxing use of enhancement drugs e) It would make companies put more resources into researching better enhancement drugs that have less severe negative effects, as well as probably other positive effects. Many enhancement drugs are just medicines for different diseases being used in a different way than what was intended. I completely disagree with your train of thought. Why is all sports played at a professional level unhealthy? Evening the playing field is the point. But in the reverse form, have everyone on a neutral level. Not everyone on roids. Same principle as nuclear weapons, the optimal solution isn't for everyone to have them, it's for no one. There already is a safe use of certain enhancement drugs. The stuff these guys are using is dangerous in the long term. It's banned for a reason. There is so much research supporting this. Knowledge about the subject of PED's is immense. Certain drugs are completely legal and safely regulated with research being conducted by many groups. In the same way that certain PED's are just 100% going to fuck you up, the research has been conducted and these substances banned for a reason. It's not about regulating the market, this is not a similar situation to cannabis etc. If a substance is introduced that can cause physical effects with serious negative effects long term and is linked to many violent mental induced conditions. It should not be viewed with a liberal lens. It should not be 'Oh look here is dangerous substance X- lets educate everyone about it and then if they still want to use it let them.' That is such a backwards train of though and doesn't work in the real world. Many enhancement drugs are not just regular medicines for different disease being used in a different way.
I`m not going to debate this with you, I believe legalizing would be better than todays situation, you can think what you want.
I just assumed people agreed/knew that excessive training/being a top athlete probably is not healthy in the long run. This is because you stress your body more than what is good for you if you want to live a long life with a properly functioning body.
Is that a good enough reason to not have a rule? because that it is hard to enforce?
Colluding/Match-fixing is pretty hard to enforce. Should we let it be legal?
No, but that is an entirely different argument than whether you should allow people to be shot or have their eyes gouged out, so my argument about it being enforceable does not really apply to this.. Match fixing goes against the very premise of the game, unlike enhancement drugs which are merely part of the standards surrounding the game.
|
On April 06 2012 22:31 Grend wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 22:11 Dr.Lettuce wrote:On April 06 2012 21:09 Grend wrote:On April 06 2012 20:50 Dr.Lettuce wrote:On April 06 2012 20:25 mememolly wrote:
why are roids banned anyways? it's not like you could just take some roids and win the UFC, you still need to put in the work First off it gives you an unfair advantage. The strength gains and cardio gains can be phenomenal. If you're training like an animal and take roids, your training can be soooo much more intense and give you disgusting advantages in a fight. You recover from injuries quicker. If you're fighting another guy and you've both been training for months, but you've been less hindered than him from injuries, able to do everything for longer and harder; and when fight time comes you're still pumped up you have an advantage. Not to mention the mental advantage of knowing that you are stronger than him in many physical aspects. However the real reason they are banned, is because they cause so much damage to people long term. Roids are illegal for a reason- they seriously fuck you up. If they weren't anybody who wanted to compete in any sort of sport would take roids. I'm just stealing this quote from a guy on a mma forum I know, and this guy knows a fuck load about PEDs: That's the thing about steroids, once (or if) he stops he's toast. At least for the next few years. His body's natural hormone manufacturing has been destroyed by pumping artificial levels. If he stops, his cardio is going to be shot, he'll go through depression, lose a lot of muscle, might develop Cushing's syndrome etc. It would take years for his body to get back to normal. So no, his past steroid use would generally count against him not for. He might be able to keep some of that muscle (most of it will go though), but it'd be rough going for a long time, and in the meantime everything else would be going haywire. Of course if he didn't stop, he'd probably have a heart attack, liver disease, kidney disease, hypogonadism etc. eventually anyway. That's why steroids are a lose-lose proposition kids. Basically what would happen to him is what I suspect happened to Filho and (don't hate me) Shogun when I think they went cold turkey on coming to stricter testing in the US from Japan. Their cardios died inexplicably, their bodies lost definition, and they went into depressive spins. No anabolic steroid is harmless. There's better people than internet bodybuilders and back alley peddlers doing research into this stuff and marking stuff off as OTC, prescription, emergency etc. If it was harmless, it would be a legal supplement. Peoples' desires to take the shortcuts in life and get ripped quick aren't gonna change the facts. In fact, the very nature of the thing makes it impossible to be harmless. These are chemicals made by your body as regulator switches. They're not some magic nutrition your body needs from outside, there's a reason it's maintaining those switches at certain levels and that's because it doesn't want to overload. Like putting 10000 Volts onto a 240V motor. People think they're being very clever by putting in more of this switch ... the body isn't stupid, it could've made up a bucket full of that stuff if it wanted, it doesn't need it. They're not very resource intensive chemicals for the body to make you know. You put in extra, well the body just lowers it's own production, because it doesn't want to kill it's heart and organs that are not capable of functioning at those levels. ANY steroid has that basic principle, because you're dealing with the same mechanism here. What the body does need is nutrition, things it can't make on it's own. But no, that's too slow, and we can't be bothered to take the long, hard, painful and consistent route. Sure, you could do just a little bit of steroids, and it might not mess you up. Actually it would, but just by the amount you're putting in. Small amount, small messups, perhaps not even noticable, but then the gains are small too. But slowly, those small amounts would have less and less effect, as your body gets used to it and compensates. Then you just need a little bit more. Surely if it's been fine so far, just a smidge more couldn't hurt? Whoops that little extra smidge is causing just a little problem with the cardio, or the skin, or the recovery. Well, no problem! Just take this OTHER one to compensate for the side-effects. Just a smidge of course.... whoops... And before you know it, you've got a gas pump pumping you full of synthetic horse testosterone and whale piss. Sorry I just lifted some stuff he said- (so it may be slightly out of context) that I felt was relevant and explained my points far better than I did. You could argue that all sports played at a professional level is unhealthy though, and that by allowing enhancement drugs you could get several positive benefits: a) You would even the playing field b) There would be better and safer use of enhancement drugs c) Knowledge about the subject would increase, thus lessening the dangers to society from enhancement drugs d) You would be able to regulate the market more, as well as taxing use of enhancement drugs e) It would make companies put more resources into researching better enhancement drugs that have less severe negative effects, as well as probably other positive effects. Many enhancement drugs are just medicines for different diseases being used in a different way than what was intended. I completely disagree with your train of thought. Why is all sports played at a professional level unhealthy? Evening the playing field is the point. But in the reverse form, have everyone on a neutral level. Not everyone on roids. Same principle as nuclear weapons, the optimal solution isn't for everyone to have them, it's for no one. There already is a safe use of certain enhancement drugs. The stuff these guys are using is dangerous in the long term. It's banned for a reason. There is so much research supporting this. Knowledge about the subject of PED's is immense. Certain drugs are completely legal and safely regulated with research being conducted by many groups. In the same way that certain PED's are just 100% going to fuck you up, the research has been conducted and these substances banned for a reason. It's not about regulating the market, this is not a similar situation to cannabis etc. If a substance is introduced that can cause physical effects with serious negative effects long term and is linked to many violent mental induced conditions. It should not be viewed with a liberal lens. It should not be 'Oh look here is dangerous substance X- lets educate everyone about it and then if they still want to use it let them.' That is such a backwards train of though and doesn't work in the real world. Many enhancement drugs are not just regular medicines for different disease being used in a different way. I`m not going to debate this with you, I believe legalizing would be better than todays situation, you can think what you want. I just assumed people agreed/knew that excessive training/being a top athlete probably is not healthy in the long run. This is because you stress your body more than what is good for you if you want to live a long life with a properly functioning body.
Legalizing wouldn't. I'm sorry but it just wouldn't. You would change the culture of all sports, essentially any young budding athlete would have to take roids to succeed. At that point, even newer dangerous chemically unstable substances would become regularly taken. Athletes would be taking even more ridiculous risks than they do now. You are welcome to your opinion based on absolutely no knowledge of steroids.
Yes excessive training isn't great for your life longevity. But it's a fuck load better than taking roids.
Personally I like to see what humans are capable of. Not genetically modified super freaks. Roids are looked down upon by so many of the worlds greatest sportsmen and women. And for good reason. I'm ashamed to admit I acknowledge a rise of people with the same train as thought of you. Thankfully you're still a large minority.
I am a huge advocate of MMA and I take it as a personal insult when ever people even try to suggest that steroid use is the way forward.
|
On April 06 2012 22:21 Dr.Lettuce wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 21:27 mememolly wrote:
but if roids were legal then it would level the playing field and no one could gain an unfair advantage from them as all fighters would have the same chance to use them, as for them fucking you up, surely that is the fighters choice, as long as he is aware of the risks then what is the problem? how is taking roids any different than having a certain dietary program or whatever? to me it seems like a double standard to say you can do this to gain an advantage but not this Taking steroids is not similar to any form of dietary program. The hormones produced by your body are heavily regulated internally for a chemical balance. These can be changed of course with exercise, training, diet and supplementation within reason. Many PED's completely out of sync the human body to completely unnatural levels. Do you really think that any kind of type diet will end up with you having so much testosterone, that your balls stop producing the chemical because you are so jacked up on it. Then when you stop taking it, your balls are now physically unable to make it and thus you have to start TRT (Testosterone replacement therapy). I'm sorry but you are completely wrong. By allowing it, you literally make anyone that wants to compete in MMA, have to start taking steroids. There is no argument against it. Anderson Silva is incredible. The same guy abusing roids, would be even more incredible. Think about all the young guys just getting in to the sport. You effectively create an atmosphere that is unless you take steroids you will never reach the top. That is the wrong message for any sport. Like I said, the aim is to make it an fair playing field. So that everyone is neutral, not jacked up. Why should it be the fighters choice? Why would an honest fighter who has trained his whole life agree to fight against other people who trained their whole lives, but have changed their bodies in such unnatural ways they have supreme advantages. Whilst it technically is the choice of the fighter, there is the wrong and right choice. I honestly think it's so black and white. Don't fucking roid. It is not a double standard at all. I sincerely urge you to watch 'bigger faster stronger' a documentary on steroid use. Then go and read some academia on the subject. Fuck steroids. End of.
I'll try and check that docu out, thanks
Hypothetically though, if roids didn't have any negative sides effects would you be happy seeing them in MMA? and if not, why?
|
Steroids are awful, come on. Legalizing them would only lead to overusage and such. It'd become equipment sports instead of talent / whatever. Also steroids are extremely fatal, and more often than not fatal in the doses they'd be taking. It would be horrible to make young aspiring athletes need to take steroids in order to have a chance to succeed and open themselves up for all the numerous health problems they cause later on in their lives.
If anything they should make the tests even more frequent and strict.
@Grend Come on, exercise is good for your body not bad. It makes you live longer.
By the way if this guy seriously trains 2 times a day every day a week that's already a dead giveaway he's using steroids, that's just not possible, or at the very least it makes your results worse(Unless you use steroids)
@mememolly For the same reason that maphacking isn't legal in SC2?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.picshot.pl/pfiles/87391/roid4.JPG)
