On April 06 2012 23:13 Shikyo wrote: Steroids are awful, come on. Legalizing them would only lead to overusage and such. It'd become equipment sports instead of talent / whatever. Also steroids are extremely fatal, and more often than not fatal in the doses they'd be taking. It would be horrible to make young aspiring athletes need to take steroids in order to have a chance to succeed and open themselves up for all the numerous health problems they cause later on in their lives.
If anything they should make the tests even more frequent and strict.
@Grend Come on, exercise is good for your body not bad. It makes you live longer.
By the way if this guy seriously trains 2 times a day every day a week that's already a dead giveaway he's using steroids, that's just not possible, or at the very least it makes your results worse(Unless you use steroids)
@mememolly For the same reason that maphacking isn't legal in SC2?
Noone would be forced to do steroids.
@Shikyo: Please note that I am making a distinction about being a professional athlete and exercising.
On April 06 2012 23:13 Shikyo wrote: Steroids are awful, come on. Legalizing them would only lead to overusage and such. It'd become equipment sports instead of talent / whatever. Also steroids are extremely fatal, and more often than not fatal in the doses they'd be taking. It would be horrible to make young aspiring athletes need to take steroids in order to have a chance to succeed and open themselves up for all the numerous health problems they cause later on in their lives.
If anything they should make the tests even more frequent and strict.
@Grend Come on, exercise is good for your body not bad. It makes you live longer.
By the way if this guy seriously trains 2 times a day every day a week that's already a dead giveaway he's using steroids, that's just not possible, or at the very least it makes your results worse(Unless you use steroids)
@mememolly For the same reason that maphacking isn't legal in SC2?
maphacking, if legal, would destroy the essence of the game, it would be pointless to watch a game if two people were maphacking as it would alter the object and fundamentals of the game itself
roids, if legal and had no side effects, wouldn't destroy the nature of the fight, roids would just be a more extreme and better version of food or any moderate supplements that the athletes currently take, fighters eat certain foods now anyways, they eat these foods for the certain benefits it gives them, if roids were introduced and had no negative side effects then they would take these as well for the same reasons they eat a certain food, it wouldn't change the fundamentals of the fight itself whereas maphacking would change the total nature of the game; if anything, roids with no side effects would increase the performances of the fighters and make for more exciting fights
On April 06 2012 20:25 mememolly wrote: why are roids banned anyways? it's not like you could just take some roids and win the UFC, you still need to put in the work
First off it gives you an unfair advantage. The strength gains and cardio gains can be phenomenal. If you're training like an animal and take roids, your training can be soooo much more intense and give you disgusting advantages in a fight. You recover from injuries quicker. If you're fighting another guy and you've both been training for months, but you've been less hindered than him from injuries, able to do everything for longer and harder; and when fight time comes you're still pumped up you have an advantage. Not to mention the mental advantage of knowing that you are stronger than him in many physical aspects.
However the real reason they are banned, is because they cause so much damage to people long term. Roids are illegal for a reason- they seriously fuck you up. If they weren't anybody who wanted to compete in any sort of sport would take roids.
I'm just stealing this quote from a guy on a mma forum I know, and this guy knows a fuck load about PEDs:
That's the thing about steroids, once (or if) he stops he's toast. At least for the next few years. His body's natural hormone manufacturing has been destroyed by pumping artificial levels. If he stops, his cardio is going to be shot, he'll go through depression, lose a lot of muscle, might develop Cushing's syndrome etc. It would take years for his body to get back to normal.
So no, his past steroid use would generally count against him not for. He might be able to keep some of that muscle (most of it will go though), but it'd be rough going for a long time, and in the meantime everything else would be going haywire.
Of course if he didn't stop, he'd probably have a heart attack, liver disease, kidney disease, hypogonadism etc. eventually anyway. That's why steroids are a lose-lose proposition kids.
Basically what would happen to him is what I suspect happened to Filho and (don't hate me) Shogun when I think they went cold turkey on coming to stricter testing in the US from Japan. Their cardios died inexplicably, their bodies lost definition, and they went into depressive spins.
No anabolic steroid is harmless. There's better people than internet bodybuilders and back alley peddlers doing research into this stuff and marking stuff off as OTC, prescription, emergency etc.
If it was harmless, it would be a legal supplement. Peoples' desires to take the shortcuts in life and get ripped quick aren't gonna change the facts.
In fact, the very nature of the thing makes it impossible to be harmless. These are chemicals made by your body as regulator switches. They're not some magic nutrition your body needs from outside, there's a reason it's maintaining those switches at certain levels and that's because it doesn't want to overload. Like putting 10000 Volts onto a 240V motor.
People think they're being very clever by putting in more of this switch ... the body isn't stupid, it could've made up a bucket full of that stuff if it wanted, it doesn't need it. They're not very resource intensive chemicals for the body to make you know.
You put in extra, well the body just lowers it's own production, because it doesn't want to kill it's heart and organs that are not capable of functioning at those levels. ANY steroid has that basic principle, because you're dealing with the same mechanism here.
What the body does need is nutrition, things it can't make on it's own. But no, that's too slow, and we can't be bothered to take the long, hard, painful and consistent route.
Sure, you could do just a little bit of steroids, and it might not mess you up. Actually it would, but just by the amount you're putting in. Small amount, small messups, perhaps not even noticable, but then the gains are small too.
But slowly, those small amounts would have less and less effect, as your body gets used to it and compensates. Then you just need a little bit more. Surely if it's been fine so far, just a smidge more couldn't hurt?
Whoops that little extra smidge is causing just a little problem with the cardio, or the skin, or the recovery. Well, no problem! Just take this OTHER one to compensate for the side-effects. Just a smidge of course.... whoops...
And before you know it, you've got a gas pump pumping you full of synthetic horse testosterone and whale piss.
Sorry I just lifted some stuff he said- (so it may be slightly out of context) that I felt was relevant and explained my points far better than I did.
You could argue that all sports played at a professional level is unhealthy though, and that by allowing enhancement drugs you could get several positive benefits: a) You would even the playing field b) There would be better and safer use of enhancement drugs c) Knowledge about the subject would increase, thus lessening the dangers to society from enhancement drugs d) You would be able to regulate the market more, as well as taxing use of enhancement drugs e) It would make companies put more resources into researching better enhancement drugs that have less severe negative effects, as well as probably other positive effects. Many enhancement drugs are just medicines for different diseases being used in a different way than what was intended.
I completely disagree with your train of thought. Why is all sports played at a professional level unhealthy?
Evening the playing field is the point. But in the reverse form, have everyone on a neutral level. Not everyone on roids. Same principle as nuclear weapons, the optimal solution isn't for everyone to have them, it's for no one.
There already is a safe use of certain enhancement drugs. The stuff these guys are using is dangerous in the long term. It's banned for a reason. There is so much research supporting this.
Knowledge about the subject of PED's is immense. Certain drugs are completely legal and safely regulated with research being conducted by many groups. In the same way that certain PED's are just 100% going to fuck you up, the research has been conducted and these substances banned for a reason.
It's not about regulating the market, this is not a similar situation to cannabis etc. If a substance is introduced that can cause physical effects with serious negative effects long term and is linked to many violent mental induced conditions. It should not be viewed with a liberal lens. It should not be 'Oh look here is dangerous substance X- lets educate everyone about it and then if they still want to use it let them.' That is such a backwards train of though and doesn't work in the real world.
Many enhancement drugs are not just regular medicines for different disease being used in a different way.
I`m not going to debate this with you, I believe legalizing would be better than todays situation, you can think what you want.
I just assumed people agreed/knew that excessive training/being a top athlete probably is not healthy in the long run. This is because you stress your body more than what is good for you if you want to live a long life with a properly functioning body.
Legalizing wouldn't. I'm sorry but it just wouldn't. You would change the culture of all sports, essentially any young budding athlete would have to take roids to succeed. At that point, even newer dangerous chemically unstable substances would become regularly taken. Athletes would be taking even more ridiculous risks than they do now. You are welcome to your opinion based on absolutely no knowledge of steroids.
Yes excessive training isn't great for your life longevity. But it's a fuck load better than taking roids.
Personally I like to see what humans are capable of. Not genetically modified super freaks. Roids are looked down upon by so many of the worlds greatest sportsmen and women. And for good reason. I'm ashamed to admit I acknowledge a rise of people with the same train as thought of you. Thankfully you're still a large minority.
I am a huge advocate of MMA and I take it as a personal insult when ever people even try to suggest that steroid use is the way forward.
Listen to Shamrock on Ariel Helwani's mma hour, it is already used by a really high % of fighters. To the point where fighters feel they pretty much need to be on something as well to keep up with the opponent. That's not just a mma thing either.
Ufc needs to make sure no1 is using it by doing a ton of random tests for every1 or they should indeed legalize it (which i guess is not even possible in the US). Right now every1 knows about it and still acts surprised when 1 of them gets ''caught''. Dana is now supposedly really pissed at Overeem, but in reality he's just pissed about the fight being in jeopardy and not about him being on something.
Are we really arguing about legalizing steroids here? I am a med student, and I can tell you as a person who has seen what "roiding" can do, you should NEVER be allowed to take them. There's just no upside to it. They will fuck you up and eventually kill you. They will make you into an addict. They will fuck up your natural hormone balance and your organs, especially hormone producing organs.
I can see the logic behind legalizing drugs, but making roiding legal in sports is just so stupid. It's encouraging people to take them and requires you to use them if you want to make it to the top.
On April 07 2012 00:06 mememolly wrote:
roids, if legal and had no side effects, wouldn't destroy the nature of the fight, roids would just be a more extreme and better version of food or any moderate supplements that the athletes currently take, fighters eat certain foods now anyways, they eat these foods for the certain benefits it gives them, if roids were introduced and had no negative side effects then they would take these as well for the same reasons they eat a certain food, it wouldn't change the fundamentals of the fight itself whereas maphacking would change the total nature of the game; if anything, roids with no side effects would increase the performances of the fighters and make for more exciting fights
On April 07 2012 00:30 rkarhu wrote: Are we really arguing about legalizing steroids here? I am a med student, and I can tell you as a person who has seen what "roiding" can do, you should NEVER be allowed to take them. There's just no upside to it. They will fuck you up and eventually kill you. They will make you into an addict. They will fuck up your natural hormone balance and your organs, especially hormone producing organs.
I can see the logic behind legalizing drugs, but making roiding legal in sports is just so stupid. It's encouraging people to take them and requires you to use them if you want to make it to the top.
roids, if legal and had no side effects, wouldn't destroy the nature of the fight, roids would just be a more extreme and better version of food or any moderate supplements that the athletes currently take, fighters eat certain foods now anyways, they eat these foods for the certain benefits it gives them, if roids were introduced and had no negative side effects then they would take these as well for the same reasons they eat a certain food, it wouldn't change the fundamentals of the fight itself whereas maphacking would change the total nature of the game; if anything, roids with no side effects would increase the performances of the fighters and make for more exciting fights
But they do. They kill you. End of speculation.
You need to read the rest of the thread bro, the original question was a hypothetical one, read that, then reply
I have read pretty much all of it. And there's no reason to hypotezise since roids aren't and will not be harmless.
On April 06 2012 21:27 mememolly wrote: but if roids were legal then it would level the playing field and no one could gain an unfair advantage from them as all fighters would have the same chance to use them, as for them fucking you up, surely that is the fighters choice, as long as he is aware of the risks then what is the problem? how is taking roids any different than having a certain dietary program or whatever? to me it seems like a double standard to say you can do this to gain an advantage but not this
As far as i'm aware, there is no dietary program that can boost your performance even 1 % compared to roids and be nearly as harmful as roids. In addition to that, boosting your results by taking roids is so easy that it kills the spirit of sports completely.
I'm interested in the ethics of roids though, your complaint is that they are medically dangerous, ok, but what if they weren't would you allow them? and if not, why?
if you can't answer this question then don't reply to my posts
I wouldn't, because they drastically lower the amount of time and commitment you need to put in. As i said in my last post, I feel it kills the spirit of sports. I couldn't respect an superhuman performance if I knew it was mostly thanks to some substance they took. It's too bad that probably many records have been set using these drugs giving undeserved respect to the cheaters and not to the athletics who really deserve it.
i also wanted to say that when they refer to his t/e ratio, they don't mean testosterone:estrogen, they are referring to testosterone:epitestosterone. and if he was smarter he would have injected the correct amount of epitestosterone in order to keep a good ratio.
also, injecting steroids doesn't make you a better baseball player, football player, or what have you, contrary to popular belief.
On April 06 2012 21:27 mememolly wrote: but if roids were legal then it would level the playing field and no one could gain an unfair advantage from them as all fighters would have the same chance to use them, as for them fucking you up, surely that is the fighters choice, as long as he is aware of the risks then what is the problem? how is taking roids any different than having a certain dietary program or whatever? to me it seems like a double standard to say you can do this to gain an advantage but not this
Taking steroids is not similar to any form of dietary program. The hormones produced by your body are heavily regulated internally for a chemical balance. These can be changed of course with exercise, training, diet and supplementation within reason. Many PED's completely out of sync the human body to completely unnatural levels. Do you really think that any kind of type diet will end up with you having so much testosterone, that your balls stop producing the chemical because you are so jacked up on it. Then when you stop taking it, your balls are now physically unable to make it and thus you have to start TRT (Testosterone replacement therapy). I'm sorry but you are completely wrong.
By allowing it, you literally make anyone that wants to compete in MMA, have to start taking steroids. There is no argument against it. Anderson Silva is incredible. The same guy abusing roids, would be even more incredible. Think about all the young guys just getting in to the sport. You effectively create an atmosphere that is unless you take steroids you will never reach the top. That is the wrong message for any sport.
Like I said, the aim is to make it an fair playing field. So that everyone is neutral, not jacked up. Why should it be the fighters choice? Why would an honest fighter who has trained his whole life agree to fight against other people who trained their whole lives, but have changed their bodies in such unnatural ways they have supreme advantages. Whilst it technically is the choice of the fighter, there is the wrong and right choice. I honestly think it's so black and white. Don't fucking roid.
It is not a double standard at all. I sincerely urge you to watch 'bigger faster stronger' a documentary on steroid use. Then go and read some academia on the subject. Fuck steroids. End of.
I'll try and check that docu out, thanks
Hypothetically though, if roids didn't have any negative sides effects would you be happy seeing them in MMA? and if not, why?
First off, TRT is: injecting testosterone lol. If you take inject testosterone, yes your body will naturally shut down it's own production of testosterone, but not forever. There are drugs such as: HCG, Aromasin, Letrozole, Clomid, Nolvadex, and such which are SERMs/AntiE's (HCG is different - if you take it while on, your body never actually shuts down it's own production).
Steroids are NOT fatal...unless you're deathly allergic to the oil it's suspended in, or take way too much. Which can be said for pretty much anything on the planet, including water.
Show me cases where steroids were the actual cause of death of someone. Clenbuterol kills more people than roids ever will because it actually affects your heart. Any amateur BB that I've ever heard of dying was a known clen abuser. Zyzz included.
On April 06 2012 20:25 mememolly wrote: why are roids banned anyways? it's not like you could just take some roids and win the UFC, you still need to put in the work
First off it gives you an unfair advantage. The strength gains and cardio gains can be phenomenal. If you're training like an animal and take roids, your training can be soooo much more intense and give you disgusting advantages in a fight. You recover from injuries quicker. If you're fighting another guy and you've both been training for months, but you've been less hindered than him from injuries, able to do everything for longer and harder; and when fight time comes you're still pumped up you have an advantage. Not to mention the mental advantage of knowing that you are stronger than him in many physical aspects.
However the real reason they are banned, is because they cause so much damage to people long term. Roids are illegal for a reason- they seriously fuck you up. If they weren't anybody who wanted to compete in any sort of sport would take roids.
I'm just stealing this quote from a guy on a mma forum I know, and this guy knows a fuck load about PEDs:
That's the thing about steroids, once (or if) he stops he's toast. At least for the next few years. His body's natural hormone manufacturing has been destroyed by pumping artificial levels. If he stops, his cardio is going to be shot, he'll go through depression, lose a lot of muscle, might develop Cushing's syndrome etc. It would take years for his body to get back to normal.
So no, his past steroid use would generally count against him not for. He might be able to keep some of that muscle (most of it will go though), but it'd be rough going for a long time, and in the meantime everything else would be going haywire.
Of course if he didn't stop, he'd probably have a heart attack, liver disease, kidney disease, hypogonadism etc. eventually anyway. That's why steroids are a lose-lose proposition kids.
Basically what would happen to him is what I suspect happened to Filho and (don't hate me) Shogun when I think they went cold turkey on coming to stricter testing in the US from Japan. Their cardios died inexplicably, their bodies lost definition, and they went into depressive spins.
No anabolic steroid is harmless. There's better people than internet bodybuilders and back alley peddlers doing research into this stuff and marking stuff off as OTC, prescription, emergency etc.
If it was harmless, it would be a legal supplement. Peoples' desires to take the shortcuts in life and get ripped quick aren't gonna change the facts.
In fact, the very nature of the thing makes it impossible to be harmless. These are chemicals made by your body as regulator switches. They're not some magic nutrition your body needs from outside, there's a reason it's maintaining those switches at certain levels and that's because it doesn't want to overload. Like putting 10000 Volts onto a 240V motor.
People think they're being very clever by putting in more of this switch ... the body isn't stupid, it could've made up a bucket full of that stuff if it wanted, it doesn't need it. They're not very resource intensive chemicals for the body to make you know.
You put in extra, well the body just lowers it's own production, because it doesn't want to kill it's heart and organs that are not capable of functioning at those levels. ANY steroid has that basic principle, because you're dealing with the same mechanism here.
What the body does need is nutrition, things it can't make on it's own. But no, that's too slow, and we can't be bothered to take the long, hard, painful and consistent route.
Sure, you could do just a little bit of steroids, and it might not mess you up. Actually it would, but just by the amount you're putting in. Small amount, small messups, perhaps not even noticable, but then the gains are small too.
But slowly, those small amounts would have less and less effect, as your body gets used to it and compensates. Then you just need a little bit more. Surely if it's been fine so far, just a smidge more couldn't hurt?
Whoops that little extra smidge is causing just a little problem with the cardio, or the skin, or the recovery. Well, no problem! Just take this OTHER one to compensate for the side-effects. Just a smidge of course.... whoops...
And before you know it, you've got a gas pump pumping you full of synthetic horse testosterone and whale piss.
Sorry I just lifted some stuff he said- (so it may be slightly out of context) that I felt was relevant and explained my points far better than I did.
You could argue that all sports played at a professional level is unhealthy though, and that by allowing enhancement drugs you could get several positive benefits: a) You would even the playing field b) There would be better and safer use of enhancement drugs c) Knowledge about the subject would increase, thus lessening the dangers to society from enhancement drugs d) You would be able to regulate the market more, as well as taxing use of enhancement drugs e) It would make companies put more resources into researching better enhancement drugs that have less severe negative effects, as well as probably other positive effects. Many enhancement drugs are just medicines for different diseases being used in a different way than what was intended.
I completely disagree with your train of thought. Why is all sports played at a professional level unhealthy?
Evening the playing field is the point. But in the reverse form, have everyone on a neutral level. Not everyone on roids. Same principle as nuclear weapons, the optimal solution isn't for everyone to have them, it's for no one.
There already is a safe use of certain enhancement drugs. The stuff these guys are using is dangerous in the long term. It's banned for a reason. There is so much research supporting this.
Knowledge about the subject of PED's is immense. Certain drugs are completely legal and safely regulated with research being conducted by many groups. In the same way that certain PED's are just 100% going to fuck you up, the research has been conducted and these substances banned for a reason.
It's not about regulating the market, this is not a similar situation to cannabis etc. If a substance is introduced that can cause physical effects with serious negative effects long term and is linked to many violent mental induced conditions. It should not be viewed with a liberal lens. It should not be 'Oh look here is dangerous substance X- lets educate everyone about it and then if they still want to use it let them.' That is such a backwards train of though and doesn't work in the real world.
Many enhancement drugs are not just regular medicines for different disease being used in a different way.
I`m not going to debate this with you, I believe legalizing would be better than todays situation, you can think what you want.
I just assumed people agreed/knew that excessive training/being a top athlete probably is not healthy in the long run. This is because you stress your body more than what is good for you if you want to live a long life with a properly functioning body.
Legalizing wouldn't. I'm sorry but it just wouldn't. You would change the culture of all sports, essentially any young budding athlete would have to take roids to succeed. At that point, even newer dangerous chemically unstable substances would become regularly taken. Athletes would be taking even more ridiculous risks than they do now. You are welcome to your opinion based on absolutely no knowledge of steroids.
Yes excessive training isn't great for your life longevity. But it's a fuck load better than taking roids.
Personally I like to see what humans are capable of. Not genetically modified super freaks. Roids are looked down upon by so many of the worlds greatest sportsmen and women. And for good reason. I'm ashamed to admit I acknowledge a rise of people with the same train as thought of you. Thankfully you're still a large minority.
I am a huge advocate of MMA and I take it as a personal insult when ever people even try to suggest that steroid use is the way forward.
Listen to Shamrock on Ariel Helwani's mma hour, it is already used by a really high % of fighters. To the point where fighters feel they pretty much need to be on something as well to keep up with the opponent. That's not just a mma thing either.
Ufc needs to make sure no1 is using it by doing a ton of random tests for every1 or they should indeed legalize it (which i guess is not even possible in the US). Right now every1 knows about it and still acts surprised when 1 of them gets ''caught''. Dana is now supposedly really pissed at Overeem, but in reality he's just pissed about the fight being in jeopardy and not about him being on something.
I've seen it years ago. In my original post I mentioned how I see it right the way through to the amateur levels. I know it's extremely prevalent- we all do, however I will not accuse people until caught. I do have my suspicions but innocent until proven guilty. Additionally, it's hard to put a figure on it. I mean guys like K-sos came out and admitted past roid abuse, his article/interview was absolutely fascinating and I urge everyone to give it a look.
Shamrocks interview is great however they missed a lot of detail so it's a really poor example, a few guys like Jason Reinhardt came out and admitted it on the UG forums. That was a fantastic thousand page thread with so much insight. I currently train with 2 guys who are in the UFC roster. I know for a fact one of them juices/used to juice. I fucking despise it, but you are right. A lot of these guys are taking it because and I hate using this analogy but it's like nuclear weapons. If you don't have them you feel vulnerable, you get them just to play catch up.
And you are right about Dana acting pissed, he just signed a deal with fox. Realistically if MMA ever wants go mainstream, Dana should make an example of Overeem and cut him. We are now entering a transition stage and honestly, MMA can't afford to be associated with doping. Additionally I agree with you that random testing really is the way forward. I have never taken steroids yet I know how to cycle about 15 different PED's just because of my involvement within MMA over the years. Random testing eliminates preparation cycles. It should be done.
On April 05 2012 12:10 SoMuchBetter wrote: Him testing positive doesn't make sense. He passed the last random drug test (both blood and urine) and it was part of the conditions of the fiasco it caused (since he submitted a blood test instead of a urine test at first) that he submit himself to random drug tests throughout 2012.
He knew he was going to be tested at random so why wouldnt he stay off whatever he was taking for a year?
JSD vs Mir would be a pointless 2 minute KO victory for JDS. I hope his B samples test clean so we can see an actual competitive fight
yeah its strange, I read that he passed both Urine tests and blood tests as recently as a month and a half ago, and directly after the lesner fight. It also said he passed the blood test but the urine samples were what set it off. Which is strange in itself because they test urine because of the longevity of being able to test positive. Yet he had passed blood and urine tests less than 2 months ago. Seems strange that he would all of a sudden test positive when his fight is a couple of months away.
It also mentioned he was tested about 5 times randomly in the last 6 months, and this was the only one to come up positive, albeit was the the most recent test.
the article was listed on TSN but they seem to have changed the article now to a less detailed and more ambigious report.
On April 06 2012 21:27 mememolly wrote: but if roids were legal then it would level the playing field and no one could gain an unfair advantage from them as all fighters would have the same chance to use them, as for them fucking you up, surely that is the fighters choice, as long as he is aware of the risks then what is the problem? how is taking roids any different than having a certain dietary program or whatever? to me it seems like a double standard to say you can do this to gain an advantage but not this
Taking steroids is not similar to any form of dietary program. The hormones produced by your body are heavily regulated internally for a chemical balance. These can be changed of course with exercise, training, diet and supplementation within reason. Many PED's completely out of sync the human body to completely unnatural levels. Do you really think that any kind of type diet will end up with you having so much testosterone, that your balls stop producing the chemical because you are so jacked up on it. Then when you stop taking it, your balls are now physically unable to make it and thus you have to start TRT (Testosterone replacement therapy). I'm sorry but you are completely wrong.
By allowing it, you literally make anyone that wants to compete in MMA, have to start taking steroids. There is no argument against it. Anderson Silva is incredible. The same guy abusing roids, would be even more incredible. Think about all the young guys just getting in to the sport. You effectively create an atmosphere that is unless you take steroids you will never reach the top. That is the wrong message for any sport.
Like I said, the aim is to make it an fair playing field. So that everyone is neutral, not jacked up. Why should it be the fighters choice? Why would an honest fighter who has trained his whole life agree to fight against other people who trained their whole lives, but have changed their bodies in such unnatural ways they have supreme advantages. Whilst it technically is the choice of the fighter, there is the wrong and right choice. I honestly think it's so black and white. Don't fucking roid.
It is not a double standard at all. I sincerely urge you to watch 'bigger faster stronger' a documentary on steroid use. Then go and read some academia on the subject. Fuck steroids. End of.
I'll try and check that docu out, thanks
Hypothetically though, if roids didn't have any negative sides effects would you be happy seeing them in MMA? and if not, why?
First off, TRT is: injecting testosterone lol. If you take inject testosterone, yes your body will naturally shut down it's own production of testosterone, but not forever. There are drugs such as: HCG, Aromasin, Letrozole, Clomid, Nolvadex, and such which are SERMs/AntiE's (HCG is different - if you take it while on, your body never actually shuts down it's own production).
Steroids are NOT fatal...unless you're deathly allergic to the oil it's suspended in, or take way too much. Which can be said for pretty much anything on the planet, including water.
Show me cases where steroids were the actual cause of death of someone. Clenbuterol kills more people than roids ever will because it actually affects your heart. Any amateur BB that I've ever heard of dying was a known clen abuser. Zyzz included.
I know TRT is injecting testosterone... A lot of guys get placed on it because of pretty obvious past steroid abuse. Come on, Nate, Chael, Henderson to name a few? The reason these guys get placed on it is because of past steroid abuse.... You have to be pretty ignorant, to think that within the MMA community that such a large number of athletes are on TRT because of natural deficiencies... Like obviously these guys now have low levels of testosterone from past abuse. So actually yes, it does permanently affect your ability to naturally produce it.
Steroids pretty obviously contribute to serious flaws in health, they indirectly kill people. I don't see how you can debate that.
Like can you actually prove in one case 100% that smoking was the cause of death for someone. Like 100% there smoking lead to their death. It's the same as steroids, so many heart failures etc... so much indirect damage.
On April 06 2012 21:27 mememolly wrote: but if roids were legal then it would level the playing field and no one could gain an unfair advantage from them as all fighters would have the same chance to use them, as for them fucking you up, surely that is the fighters choice, as long as he is aware of the risks then what is the problem? how is taking roids any different than having a certain dietary program or whatever? to me it seems like a double standard to say you can do this to gain an advantage but not this
Taking steroids is not similar to any form of dietary program. The hormones produced by your body are heavily regulated internally for a chemical balance. These can be changed of course with exercise, training, diet and supplementation within reason. Many PED's completely out of sync the human body to completely unnatural levels. Do you really think that any kind of type diet will end up with you having so much testosterone, that your balls stop producing the chemical because you are so jacked up on it. Then when you stop taking it, your balls are now physically unable to make it and thus you have to start TRT (Testosterone replacement therapy). I'm sorry but you are completely wrong.
By allowing it, you literally make anyone that wants to compete in MMA, have to start taking steroids. There is no argument against it. Anderson Silva is incredible. The same guy abusing roids, would be even more incredible. Think about all the young guys just getting in to the sport. You effectively create an atmosphere that is unless you take steroids you will never reach the top. That is the wrong message for any sport.
Like I said, the aim is to make it an fair playing field. So that everyone is neutral, not jacked up. Why should it be the fighters choice? Why would an honest fighter who has trained his whole life agree to fight against other people who trained their whole lives, but have changed their bodies in such unnatural ways they have supreme advantages. Whilst it technically is the choice of the fighter, there is the wrong and right choice. I honestly think it's so black and white. Don't fucking roid.
It is not a double standard at all. I sincerely urge you to watch 'bigger faster stronger' a documentary on steroid use. Then go and read some academia on the subject. Fuck steroids. End of.
I'll try and check that docu out, thanks
Hypothetically though, if roids didn't have any negative sides effects would you be happy seeing them in MMA? and if not, why?
First off, TRT is: injecting testosterone lol. If you take inject testosterone, yes your body will naturally shut down it's own production of testosterone, but not forever. There are drugs such as: HCG, Aromasin, Letrozole, Clomid, Nolvadex, and such which are SERMs/AntiE's (HCG is different - if you take it while on, your body never actually shuts down it's own production).
Steroids are NOT fatal...unless you're deathly allergic to the oil it's suspended in, or take way too much. Which can be said for pretty much anything on the planet, including water.
Show me cases where steroids were the actual cause of death of someone. Clenbuterol kills more people than roids ever will because it actually affects your heart. Any amateur BB that I've ever heard of dying was a known clen abuser. Zyzz included.
I know TRT is injecting testosterone... A lot of guys get placed on it because of pretty obvious past steroid abuse. Come on, Nate, Chael, Henderson to name a few? The reason these guys get placed on it is because of past steroid abuse.... You have to be pretty ignorant, to think that within the MMA community that such a large number of athletes are on TRT because of natural deficiencies...Steroids pretty obviously contribute to serious flaws in health, they indirectly kill people. I don't see how you can debate that.
Yes if you don't use the drugs are your disposal and ABUSE them (which IMO is taking anything other than testosterone, some argue that but that's my stance, or taking upwards of 1g/wk which no fighter would ever do, only bber) and do things such as take a shot this week, don't the next, etc etc then yes that will lead you to needing to be placed on TRT. Many athletes actually have hook-ups with doctors for TRT just so they could legally use test.
You don't see how I can debate that? It's one of the largest debates that there are when it comes drugs! How does testosterone indirectly kill people? If you ABUSE them you might get higher blood pressure etc but indirectly kill you?
Can you please explain how all of these professional bodybuilders are alive? They are the one of the biggest abusers on the planet.
You are gravely mistaken if you only think that "abusing" steroids has any consequences. And correct me if im wrong, but doesn't "abuse" mean here that you are taking them, no matter how small doses. There is no way to take steroids without putting yourself in harm's way. That's a fact.
If you want proof of the correlation between steroids and death, just google it up. The proof is so solid I'm not gonna even look up any specific articles.
Thanks for the name of the documentary. I just finished watching it and it's pretty much eye-opener for me. Learned a lot of things (generally, not scientifically obviously since when I went to wiki to learn more about steroids and didn't really get much information apart from chemical formulas and contents discribed with more scientific language).
I have never used anything like that, nor did I ever want to. But I do go to gym and use supplements like BCAA and protein, no direct mass gainers (yeah, that's my deep knowledge). I wouldn't like to get big and it was never my choice and that's what I said to my trainer when describing my goals.
It seems slightly disingenuous to be railing against steroids because they arent perfectly healthy in a sport entirely based on beating the shit out each other, preferably until one contestant is incapacitated.
EPT
