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On April 20 2012 06:30 TheWorldToCome wrote:
What was considered the main community website for wc3 when the scene was still really active? Was it wcreplays.com?
Yeah, it was WCreplays. It was a really good community while it was active, but now it's little more than a repository for replays (very, very entertaining replays).
They used to do audio commentaries. You had to sync up windows media player and the replay, haha. It was very quaint :D
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i tried for the first time to play wc3 for the first time a few weeks ago and i have a question:
is it normal that i feel a huge latency while playing the game ? i heard that blizzard stopped taking care of the EU server, is it true ?
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Wouldn't mind trying out learning this game. Never really tried playing competitive WC3. Just played the campaign and spent my time playing custom maps. lol
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huge latency? nah, 1-2 seconds usually though. bnet1 is set at 150ms default, so there is at least 1.5 seconds between commands, this was made for 56k fairness btw.
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On April 20 2012 10:01 Holcan wrote:
huge latency? nah, 1-2 seconds usually though. bnet1 is set at 150ms default, so there is at least 1.5 seconds between commands, this was made for 56k fairness btw.
well 1-2 sec is huge
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sure, for a fps, in an rts it doesn't mean much, you get used to timing things for delay, especially wc3, where everything has do much hp, and does so little damage.
plus even international competitions have lag around 1.5-3 seconds so training on lan network is almost useless unless you are the top echelon of players.
most people use hosting programs or garena to get sub 100 local games.
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On April 20 2012 10:28 HellKey wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2012 10:01 Holcan wrote:
huge latency? nah, 1-2 seconds usually though. bnet1 is set at 150ms default, so there is at least 1.5 seconds between commands, this was made for 56k fairness btw. well 1-2 sec is huge
It's not nearly so high ... 150ms != 1.5 seconds, it's .15 seconds. If your internet is not shit, you should get around half a second delay through BNet imo. When I have bad connection, it becomes noticeable at 1-2 seconds.
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No one in the battlenet channel, and no response from Garena group 
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what benefit would .15 delay give to 56k users? they used to run around 250-300 ping normally, or 3 second delay, they imposed the delay so 56k users could still play, as broadband wasn't that huge during the rise of d2, wc3, and bw.
they got rid of the cap for sc2, and wow, that's why the run faster. I think around 50ms is the new standard, and why lan doesn't play like lan.
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What ever the delay is set at, i think it's annoying and it's why i wont play the game again.
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try being a chinese player, used to host for them on 4 second delay, they only bitched if it was spiking :p.
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On April 20 2012 10:59 HellKey wrote:
What ever the delay is set at, i think it's annoying and it's why i wont play the game again.
A slight delay is a poor reason to completely quit the game! Give it some more time; trust me, it's well worth the adjustment 
I'm on right now (east coast) if anyone else is / wants to play a game.
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Gah, want to play WC3, but can't due to Nicaraguan internet being insanely slow! Definitely up for some games in May when I'm back in Norway.
(except if you're Orc and good with the Blademaster)
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Well, Holcan just destroyed me...five times in a row. Makes me wonder how bad the players I'm beating really are. :S
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On April 20 2012 10:51 Holcan wrote:
what benefit would .15 delay give to 56k users? they used to run around 250-300 ping normally, or 3 second delay, they imposed the delay so 56k users could still play, as broadband wasn't that huge during the rise of d2, wc3, and bw.
they got rid of the cap for sc2, and wow, that's why the run faster. I think around 50ms is the new standard, and why lan doesn't play like lan.
I just know that I don't get over a 1 sec delay on BNet between when I click move and when the unit moves, and that 150 ms is not 1.5 seconds, whatever it's set at. You're either grossly underestimating how long a second is or your numbers are wrong. 1000 ms = 1 second. To get to 1-2 sec delay, you need 1000-2000 ping, to get to 4 sec it will be at 4000 ping. I myself don't notice any huge diff. between War3 and SC2 delay.
@ jeeeeohn: That tends to happen to people who play Holcan, no matter how much I doubt his math.  Though maybe if he played at 5 second delay I might be able to put up a fight against him, lol.
Incidentally, am still getting owned by mass hunt. Idk how to deal with it. As UD, cold towers and tech to T2 and mass gargs I suppose, but until then I lose map control and can barely creep without getting creepjacked a bajillion times. As HU, I kinda have the same issue with the lack of creeping ability until I hit casters/rifs. :/
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Maybe 300ms doesnt mean 3 seconds, but whatever 300 ping in Garena is, is about 3 seconds lag, I've hosted for way to many people for that not to be true. They always say that there is "delay" "2 secs" in their limited english skills, but I'm sure they are being generous. Most people can't stand over 250, and I agree, thank god I'm in the hosting capital of the world.
You dont need to creep vs elf, just harass his workers all game until you get 80 food ghouls, gargs, aboms, destro, wyrm? (if bears) fiends (they get a level 5 panda !). You don't really need a lich until tier 3, with an orb, so you can tech before getting her.
can also do rod creeping at other camps, spawn skeleton, scout with one, creep with ghouls with the other. level 2 is all you really need mid game, to snipe a wisp and run away, or heal a dying garg and use the aura to get them away. (etc)
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Gargs? Old school. I prefer to play it with fiends, destros in general.
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On April 20 2012 14:39 Holcan wrote:
Maybe 300ms doesnt mean 3 seconds, but whatever 300 ping in Garena is, is about 3 seconds lag, I've hosted for way to many people for that not to be true. They always say that there is "delay" "2 secs" in their limited english skills, but I'm sure they are being generous. Most people can't stand over 250, and I agree, thank god I'm in the hosting capital of the world.
You dont need to creep vs elf, just harass his workers all game until you get 80 food ghouls, gargs, aboms, destro, wyrm? (if bears) fiends (they get a level 5 panda !). You don't really need a lich until tier 3, with an orb, so you can tech before getting her.
can also do rod creeping at other camps, spawn skeleton, scout with one, creep with ghouls with the other. level 2 is all you really need mid game, to snipe a wisp and run away, or heal a dying garg and use the aura to get them away. (etc)
Hmm, the game has definitely evolved and gotten more complicated over the years, haha. Used to be you just focused your game plan around one thing and played defensively (since every race has a defender's advantage). At least, that's how I remember it. Maybe I'm wrong though. I just wonder when my outdated (and slow) playstyle will hit that glass ceiling. : /
That's all awesome advice Holcan, didn't know any of that.
Also, below is the most heroic beastmaster you'll ever see. I was down 76 food to 38 or something and stampede just killed his entire army. It was awesome.
It was doubly funny because he threw out the offensive GG like 8 minutes prior, and spent this battle focusing down the mountain giant, which is exactly what I wanted him to do but never expected, lol. This was a miracle win for sure.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/VZ30s.jpg)
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On April 20 2012 14:39 Holcan wrote:
Maybe 300ms doesnt mean 3 seconds, but whatever 300 ping in Garena is, is about 3 seconds lag, I've hosted for way to many people for that not to be true. They always say that there is "delay" "2 secs" in their limited english skills, but I'm sure they are being generous. Most people can't stand over 250, and I agree, thank god I'm in the hosting capital of the world.
You dont need to creep vs elf, just harass his workers all game until you get 80 food ghouls, gargs, aboms, destro, wyrm? (if bears) fiends (they get a level 5 panda !). You don't really need a lich until tier 3, with an orb, so you can tech before getting her.
can also do rod creeping at other camps, spawn skeleton, scout with one, creep with ghouls with the other. level 2 is all you really need mid game, to snipe a wisp and run away, or heal a dying garg and use the aura to get them away. (etc)
Okay, guess I should try for ghoul/garg opening instead of the standard fiends? (I've been doing standard fiends and rod creeping all my games basically. I thought the point was to get lvl 3 DK ASAP?) When I have 3ish fiends out, they tend to have 4 hunts and by then it's just easy to chase down and surround my shit. I actually defended a huge hunt push in one of my games when he suicided stuff into a choke point at my base with cold towers shooting at him while gargs were producing on top of him, but I didn't know how to take advantage of my ... advantage after that. D:
300 ping = 300 ms = 0.3 seconds. That's just math. I'm not a computer expert, so maybe there is something else screwing it up, but I am 100% sure that 300 ping = 0.3 seconds for roundtrip. :/
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nah, vs elf you should almost always open ghouls first.
the standard is to get 22-26 food in ghouls to help in defense, tech and get a graveyard, build fiends, so 6-8 ghouls, dk, 3 fiends, naga sea witch. this is strong enough to tech to tier 3, it is your mid game army, and get slaughter house for some stats for mana and health regen, and at tier 3 get your third statue and destro research, as well as a lich with orb.
this works exceptionally well vs tavern hero builds. and is great for nuking a hero out of the fight if they get out of position.
the basic strat is this. your ghouls counter archers, and naga adds to their dps(no running), you get 3 fiends to counter his dryads, and when he gets tier three and bears you have your destro to steal rejuvs and counter the bears. tgus gives you a mobile army that can bank while denying expansions. if he breaks 50 before you, you can scout and counter accordingly because you will fare fine down food by just running away and nuking constantly.
just remember, if anyone gets an expansion against ud, you are pretty much fucked. oh yea, if you can't get level 2 before tier two, boots for the naga isn't a bad idea.
the other build is ghouls->gargs war of attrition style that I went over earlier. basically you open crypt, altar, zig, shop, zig (or 2nd crypt if you want to ghoul rush).
I'd be happy to show you a couple variations of openings sometime.
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EPT
