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On February 27 2012 15:40 Euronyme wrote:
I have a little problem. I tried building a city in my vassals province. Thing is that the city is mine, so the count gets -25 relations because he wants to control the city. I just went with the usual right click create vassal kind of thing, but the city is still my direct vassal, and the count still hates me for it.
Weird stuff.
I guess I have to give the city directly to the count and let him worry about assigning a mayor :/
Edit. I wonder what would happen if you build a church in your heirs county. Then you'd have to make him a bishop too and thus remove him as heir?
Edit. Hmm. What would happen if you give two counts the other ones city? :O
when a familymember controls something else before you give him a church you cant remove him from succession anymore.
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On February 27 2012 18:23 Skilledblob wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 15:40 Euronyme wrote:
I have a little problem. I tried building a city in my vassals province. Thing is that the city is mine, so the count gets -25 relations because he wants to control the city. I just went with the usual right click create vassal kind of thing, but the city is still my direct vassal, and the count still hates me for it.
Weird stuff.
I guess I have to give the city directly to the count and let him worry about assigning a mayor :/
Edit. I wonder what would happen if you build a church in your heirs county. Then you'd have to make him a bishop too and thus remove him as heir?
Edit. Hmm. What would happen if you give two counts the other ones city? :O when a familymember controls something else before you give him a church you cant remove him from succession anymore.
for your first problem you have to go diplo>>transfer vassal. Or something along those lines anyway the same way you transfer a count to a dukes control. If you give a count a church he will just give it/spawn a bishop to control it for him as far as i know.
If you give two counts each others cities nothing too weird will happen... they will just want eachothers cities so i think they will dislike eachother^^ that makes me wonder if it's a good idea when you have medium crown authority or higher you could sort of mess with your dukes and counts and give the fiefs they want for their de jure territories to eachother... It might make it harder for them to build big plots against you since they all dislike eachother.
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On February 27 2012 22:58 nttea wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 18:23 Skilledblob wrote:On February 27 2012 15:40 Euronyme wrote:
I have a little problem. I tried building a city in my vassals province. Thing is that the city is mine, so the count gets -25 relations because he wants to control the city. I just went with the usual right click create vassal kind of thing, but the city is still my direct vassal, and the count still hates me for it.
Weird stuff.
I guess I have to give the city directly to the count and let him worry about assigning a mayor :/
Edit. I wonder what would happen if you build a church in your heirs county. Then you'd have to make him a bishop too and thus remove him as heir?
Edit. Hmm. What would happen if you give two counts the other ones city? :O when a familymember controls something else before you give him a church you cant remove him from succession anymore. for your first problem you have to go diplo>>transfer vassal. Or something along those lines anyway the same way you transfer a count to a dukes control. If you give a count a church he will just give it/spawn a bishop to control it for him as far as i know. If you give two counts each others cities nothing too weird will happen... they will just want eachothers cities so i think they will dislike eachother^^ that makes me wonder if it's a good idea when you have medium crown authority or higher you could sort of mess with your dukes and counts and give the fiefs they want for their de jure territories to eachother... It might make it harder for them to build big plots against you since they all dislike eachother.
The most likely result would be one going to war against another. This may lead them to claim a title over a duchy and chip from your own land. Personally, I keep the castles to myself or sons and give the rest to courtiers who like me.
I dont suggest messing with dukes as they may revolt if not done properly and the chance of them revolting is big enough as is anyways.
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have a question for you all:
i have a province where the primary holding is a CITY, not a CASTLE. i only have the claim to the CITY. basically, there's a constant warning that i have a holding of the wrong type in my demesne. when i try to grant the city to a vassal, the vassal gets -30 relations with me for having the wrong holding type. is it possible to switch the main holding in a province? and if not, how do i remedy this problem - or am i just stuck with this problem province...?
another question - is there any way to expedite the conversion of a province to a different religion? or are you just waiting for it to randomly happen?
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Which province is that? It should be the same for everyone unless you've meddled with the data files, as I don't think that's something you can change from within the game.
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No it's possible, seen it before. Best solution I've come up with was to assign to a courier with no titles, or give to a mayor/doge. Same thing with bishophrics and prince-bishops.
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On February 28 2012 04:51 Talin wrote:
Which province is that? It should be the same for everyone unless you've meddled with the data files, as I don't think that's something you can change from within the game.
can't remember the name off the top of my head, it was the province south of korinthos, the main city was called arkadia.
i was reading that supposedly, if you build another castle in the province (since i don't own the current one), it'll automatically convert to the primary holding, then it'll become normal. i'll try that tonight - and i'll also try just revoking the title of the baron of the castle already in the province... see if that flips the situation around as well.
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on another note, have any of you guys tried to get a TL multiplayer game going yet? how does that work?
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I hope this comes on sale soon, it looks interesting but I wasn't very fond of the Europa: Rome series even though Europa: Universalis was tons of fun.
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On February 28 2012 04:59 fush wrote:
on another note, have any of you guys tried to get a TL multiplayer game going yet? how does that work?
Multiplayer is very fun, I played a few games with between 12-18 people and you get a few people playing big kingdoms/empires and then lots of people playing dukes or what-not under those lieges and it's sort of your team vs all the other teams. There's definitely other ways to play it though (like all being under an AI liege and constantly vying for the ability to control everyone else or break off etc) that's just the most common way it was played in the games I was in.
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On February 28 2012 04:55 seRapH wrote:
No it's possible, seen it before. Best solution I've come up with was to assign to a courier with no titles, or give to a mayor/doge. Same thing with bishophrics and prince-bishops.
no... you assign it to a count so you don't get the relationships penalty(works as long as he keeps his other count title at least, i think he will become a mayor if you take that away from him and also he will get a tax penalty or something on the city since he's not a mayor), allthough i think you have to assign the count title to a baron within the county to get it to switch capital. I did it with novgorod turning the city itself into the capital building when i gave the count title to the mayor of the city. I never done the reverse but i assume it works the same.
Also! i made progress in regards to my previous post as regards to what makes a vassal want to revolt besides the obvious relationship status; not being de jure vasall gives significant penalty(ie, if you have vasalls in france as the king of england) and the distance from capital modifier is massive, from what i can tell it's essentially impossible to keep vassals in jerusalem for more than 1 generation unless you keep showering them with more fiefs If you are a far away kingdom such as denmark or england. Pretenders and claimants are also more likely to rebel even if you can offset their relationship penalty so they are trouble (as we already know)
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On February 28 2012 05:00 Advocado wrote:
I hope this comes on sale soon, it looks interesting but I wasn't very fond of the Europa: Rome series even though Europa: Universalis was tons of fun.
EU: rome was a snoozefest compared to this game, and i would say crusader kings1 was a great game for people of the right mind, but not for everyone. Anyone willing to get over the hurdle of learning a decently complex strategy game should like crusader kings 2 however, it's so much fun!
edit again, just to clarify since my post seems a mess:
You don't get the relationship penalty for having giving the wrong kind of title to the guy, you get the relationship penalty because the city is the province capital and YOU are a feudal duke/king, the only way to not get it is getting the capital changed or getting another count/duke hold it for you.
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France454 Posts
Maybe I'm lucky, but I've managed to win a few succession wars by having the main pretender randomly die, even though I was getting completely smashed militarily. The war ends inconclusively and all the vassals that joined him in the war come back under my control. It was weird as the Byzantine emperor seeing the absolute chaos created by six or seven dukes revolting just snap back to a unified country. 
I'm going to switch from gavelkind the first opportunity I get, though -- the succession law is a real mess.
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On February 28 2012 20:35 scFoX wrote:Maybe I'm lucky, but I've managed to win a few succession wars by having the main pretender randomly die, even though I was getting completely smashed militarily. The war ends inconclusively and all the vassals that joined him in the war come back under my control. It was weird as the Byzantine emperor seeing the absolute chaos created by six or seven dukes revolting just snap back to a unified country. I'm going to switch from gavelkind the first opportunity I get, though -- the succession law is a real mess.
When your liege go to war or is attacked by a vassal, if you illustrate yourself enough, your liege will often grant you titles (which gives ducal claims over land) and land. be proactive with your liege and he will reward you as much as he can.
Also, when going to war against large empires like the byzantine, to win anything you will have to occupy a very large chunk of land and the chances of that happening if not all vassals revolt is close to 0. how can you defend against 25k troops with only 2-4k even with mercenaries.
For example, I was playing as one of the vassals of the byzantine empire. Early on, I got the heir married to a relative of mine and I would support his wars with all my fund and troops. Next thing I knew, I had gone from 2 parcels of land to 17, gaining land of even other vassals under my liege.
It all depends on how you like to play and what your goals are. Having a smaller duchy is much easier to hold but is less rewarding in terms of money and actions, making it so that you either are constantly defending yourself or just scheming 24/7.
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I wanted to help others again since I was receiving questions about who to play to begin with so here are a few tips.
If you want to be able to expand quickly while still relying on allies, you may pick the King of Castille (around Portugal) at the earliest years.
Another suggestion are the various counts south east of denmark like Rustov, Galich and such. These are all blood relatives and makes going to war/defending a cinch as long as you can keep your relations on the good side since they will all come to help you fight or defend.
As a rule of thumb here are a few tips for an easier time to begin playing the game
1) Try to avoid territories with vassals in them at first
2) Avoid being by the sea (weird stuff happens and boat invasions are hard to predict)
3) Be close enough to either Pagan, Muslim or similar religious kingdoms to expand early on and easily (pagans states near denmark have a very high soldier draft rate if you can conquer them)
4) Try upgrading your capitol's castle with militaristic upgrades first (garrisions, barracks, dongeons) so you can muster more troops
5) Try to avoid trying to use everything at first, simply focus on a single element and add on to it progressively
Ask questions if you have some in this thread and I will answer them as best as I can.
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Why is everyone saying that going in war with HRE is hard? Do you mean that breaking free of HRE is hard? Because I went in ducal claim war with HRE and won after 50k HRE troops being killed off. I myself had to call 4 mercenary armies and Hungary and Denmark to help, but HRE granted me my claim after 60% of domination. I did have 12 prisoners of war.
To people who want to conquer - As said before a good start is near a pagan or muslim area where you can go "Holy war for X" and meanwhile use your chancellor to fabricate claims to neighboring christian factions.
Personally I really like the Polish faction since it's a fairly easy start with a good ruler and simple expanding. After removing half your vassals by assassinations and gaining their land it will be no problem to hold 25 counties between the king and the first hair for the year 1140. Problems start when your heir starts granting vassals and gives away some of the titles.
As for the ruler there are really only 2 most important personality aspects you need to look out and tutor to your heirs - Diplomacy and Stewardship. Martial is most of the time decent and learning/intrigues aren't that primary for kings. Since I have only played kings then I don't know about the gameplay of dukes.
Relations with vassals are bound to drop when you hold 14 counties yourself with too many titles to count. Just keep them in prison and when their siblings revolt after their death there is no trouble to beat them to the dust.
I think I read something about 100k french troops that were destroyed by muslims. My question is how the hell are you capable of raising so big army? Was most of it your vassals army and what were the relations with them then? My brain is still set to 1200 and I hardly master more then 40k troops. Maybe it's just that during time the numbers grow?
Oh and I have to say that it's one of the most complex games I have loved. Once you get hang of it you can kill 6h without even realizing.
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On February 29 2012 05:10 Hestim wrote:
Why is everyone saying that going in war with HRE is hard? Do you mean that breaking free of HRE is hard? Because I went in ducal claim war with HRE and won after 50k HRE troops being killed off. I myself had to call 4 mercenary armies and Hungary and Denmark to help, but HRE granted me my claim after 60% of domination. I did have 12 prisoners of war.
To people who want to conquer - As said before a good start is near a pagan or muslim area where you can go "Holy war for X" and meanwhile use your chancellor to fabricate claims to neighboring christian factions.
Personally I really like the Polish faction since it's a fairly easy start with a good ruler and simple expanding. After removing half your vassals by assassinations and gaining their land it will be no problem to hold 25 counties between the king and the first hair for the year 1140. Problems start when your heir starts granting vassals and gives away some of the titles.
As for the ruler there are really only 2 most important personality aspects you need to look out and tutor to your heirs - Diplomacy and Stewardship. Martial is most of the time decent and learning/intrigues aren't that primary for kings. Since I have only played kings then I don't know about the gameplay of dukes.
Relations with vassals are bound to drop when you hold 14 counties yourself with too many titles to count. Just keep them in prison and when their siblings revolt after their death there is no trouble to beat them to the dust.
I think I read something about 100k french troops that were destroyed by muslims. My question is how the hell are you capable of raising so big army? Was most of it your vassals army and what were the relations with them then? My brain is still set to 1200 and I hardly master more then 40k troops. Maybe it's just that during time the numbers grow?
Oh and I have to say that it's one of the most complex games I have loved. Once you get hang of it you can kill 6h without even realizing.
Well HRE can still be toppled but its much easier to do when their liege passes away and a vassal who you have a ducal claim or fabricated claim to revolts. You can step in and smah it before the HRE can react. The other easier way is through politics and you need to use tactics like spy networks and bethrodal/wedding/assassination.
When going to war with large muslims factions, the church will often intercede, most of your allies will accept your requests for war. Also, as the game progresses, mercenary costing Piety for recruitment will appaear under the Holy Order tab next to the mercenaries one. These hold large amounts of troops to fight non catholic ennemies and the cost is usually lower than standard mercenaries.
To have a retinue of 100k, you must build up the castles, towns and churches to their maximum (some provinces can end up with 3-5k soldiers drafted). This costs a LOT of money and requires that you research and acquire some technological advancements prior to.
When the things pop up in the screen about these large wars against muslims is the result of a holy crusade and/or jihad. Holy Crusades give LARGE amount of Piety and Prestige if you participate and end up winning it with your vassals and allies.
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On February 29 2012 12:51 StatX wrote:
To have a retinue of 100k, you must build up the castles, towns and churches to their maximum (some provinces can end up with 3-5k soldiers drafted). This costs a LOT of money and requires that you research and acquire some technological advancements prior to.
5k? psh, 30k in my little town of Baghdad.
Anyone know which cultures give special buildings (and what those buildings are)? Is that listed somewhere? Mongol culture seems pretty imba, get over 100 horses per upgrade.
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On February 29 2012 13:49 seRapH wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 12:51 StatX wrote:
To have a retinue of 100k, you must build up the castles, towns and churches to their maximum (some provinces can end up with 3-5k soldiers drafted). This costs a LOT of money and requires that you research and acquire some technological advancements prior to. 5k? psh, 30k in my little town of Baghdad. Anyone know which cultures give special buildings (and what those buildings are)? Is that listed somewhere? Mongol culture seems pretty imba, get over 100 horses per upgrade.
wat? How do you play muslim?
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On February 29 2012 14:10 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 13:49 seRapH wrote:On February 29 2012 12:51 StatX wrote:
To have a retinue of 100k, you must build up the castles, towns and churches to their maximum (some provinces can end up with 3-5k soldiers drafted). This costs a LOT of money and requires that you research and acquire some technological advancements prior to. 5k? psh, 30k in my little town of Baghdad. Anyone know which cultures give special buildings (and what those buildings are)? Is that listed somewhere? Mongol culture seems pretty imba, get over 100 horses per upgrade. wat? How do you play muslim? + Show Spoiler +On February 21 2012 11:11 seRapH wrote:OOOOK So I did it  1066 I chose to play as the count of Kakheti, and immediatly swore fealty to the Sunni Caliphate. I just married any random woman since I don't think religion is passed on through genes or marriage, so it shouldn't really matter. What's important is to have your heir be educated by someone who's Sunni, and preferably Bedouin too. The latter is unnecessary, but lets you skip the part of using the intrigue action to convert to your liege's culture. Don't make the same mistake I did and resign your court chaplain as soon as your son gets back and pray to god (whichever you choose ohoho) he lives long enough to have children of his own. Now obviously every one of your vassals hate you for being an infidel. Fix this by either assassinating them, demanding they convert, or getting a really good muslim court chaplain. Alternatively you could let them rebel and then surrender to them and take them over later in a holy war What happens next: You get the holy war CB against all non-muslim states. Really useful. The leader of your religion is your caliphate, and AFAIK there's no way to get an Invasion CB. Be careful of the Byzantine and the crusades too, can really screw up your day. I was lucky enough to accomplish what I wanted while the Byzantine was engulfed in civil war. Becoming Caliph on the other hand is actually a lot harder than I thought it'd be. The way it'd work in the HRE is that you'd get yourself in the succession line and then could just assassinate your way up front, but the Caliphate's system is that it's inheireted by the strongest son. Yeah. If anyone figures out a way please inform ^^
I did it the hard way, but apparantely you can just click the person you want to play right after you click the play button when loading a save or new game.
Worst part about Muslims: Everyone is Agnatic succession. Hard as fuck to usurp through marriage.
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Does anyone know how the vassal tax system works? For instance bishops won't pay tax to me they have better relations to the pope than with me. How does that work for majors and barons (cities and castles)?
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EPT
