EPTThe ESPORTS Impact on the Fighting Game Community - Page 3
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Vansetsu
United States1454 Posts
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ICarrotU
United States254 Posts
On December 14 2011 03:18 warcode wrote: Nearly all the replies in here seem to confirm the things UltraDavid wrote, so I guess he is on to something. The way I see it is that they want to keep their core values in which everybody is a player, and if they want, competitor. It doesn't matter if you aren't already known, or if you are really good, if you come to a major event, got your money and enter, you get to play. As for most of the commentators I think they would rather tell it as it is and keep bringing the hype over being "more professional". As a viewer of many a fighting game stream, as well as a player, I can attest to the quality of the stream and hype meter being lowered if the commentators have to keep the language "clean" or try to "up the professionalism". It simply doesn't fit with the crowd. I respectfully disagree with the hype meter being lowered if the language on the stream is being kept clean. Spooky's stream for EVO 2011 was kept PG and was still very much just as hype as any previous EVO, if not more so, it's the matches, not the language, in my opinion. As UltraDavid put it, commentating is just icing on the cake for FGs. | ||
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bricksquad
31 Posts
On December 14 2011 00:58 Velr wrote: I don't think you can compare this in SC2 and a Beat'em'up.. I would instantly have jumped in to have a Tekken brawl against some good player (i don't follow the scene) because i used the be pretty good at Tekken 3 and 4. But thats entirely diffrent for SC2 because the games are diffrent. In Tekken i could see if i actually could give the guy a little trouble and even if not i would take a beating to remember  ..In SC2 this is not the case because you don't see all the diffrences that make him better during the play... You just do your stuff and then get killed (or attack and then get countered/killed). I read the other poitns, but they seemed all less important to me. Where i live and in basically all of switzerland there are next to NO arcades. There is no "place" to go to play Street Fighter/Tekken except private/half-private meetings... Therefore onlineplay is the by far most important aspect of the game. Yes, lag is an Issue and will be for a long time, but i doubt that any fighter will get truely big before it can be played online. He wrote about a guy sleeping in a car, guys that were in prison... In General i felt he stereotyped the FGC very bad. I guess it's a perspective thing, but growing up in a car and even being to jail doesn't necessarily make someone bad. It was supposed to be a difference in class, not like they are bad or anything, but socially, there are differences in culture that the two communities can't relate to. It's not about bad or worse, just about being different. Also online is and will always considered second tier to the fighting game community. If there is any aspect of lag, ever, it devalues the game you play. The difference between people in the arcades or friday night fights and stream monsters is that stream monsters are NOT part of the community. You cannot just play online, and many people who watch streams will go to a few arcades to watch or get their asses kicked in local tournies, and this is the natural progression. If you solely observe, you are not part of the community and the opinion of stream monsters holds no weight, which is also a distinction between them and esports. | ||
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IpKaiFung
United Kingdom91 Posts
Over the past few months I've seen various people from within and outside shit on them for what they do. Either saying that the commentary sucks (which will get better over time) and the prize pots are shit (which will get better over time). A lot of people have said the scene isnt very inclusive towards new comers. I say is that different from any scene? Try playing a MOBA for the first time and not get a barrage of "OMFG FUCKING NOOB" messages. It's true that the scene caters more towards players than the viewers but they are changing, more players are streaming and tournament organizers are doing their best to get their events streamed by the best people in the scene. In the short term what they could do is put out better viewer friendly content as currently people who do not play the games don't undestand the intricacies of what's going on. Day 9 helped popularize the viewing of SC2 with his show and that a fighting game show of similar content would work wonders to help viewers appreciate the games more. The final point is if the FGC needs SC2 money. (SC2 is where the money comes from right now don't kid yourselves, I HATE SC2 but it's the REAL moneymaker in eSports right now.) Gootecks put on an event recently sponsored by Complexity and I think that the best example of the Fighting Game Community partnering with eSports. They know how to make the content just fund them and Ideally I believe that community as whole would like that, the current TOs having more money to make nicer events. Wether or not to let the big leagues take up FGs well that decision is up to one company and there is no point in blaming sections of either community about why Capcom haven't endorsed the use of their games in the leagues. The back and forth bickering over the past few months via twitter, blogs, forums etc. has only aggrivating things especially since neither community can do much about the situation. | ||
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Andypk
Scotland512 Posts
If Blizzard hadn't put in so many awesome spectator tools, and hell, even developed the game with esports in mind, it wouldn't be the same as it is now. | ||
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iRaYP
Scotland66 Posts
On December 13 2011 20:52 Turbogangsta wrote: wow why dont our pros/casters have casual matches with spectaters more often i just realised how awesome that is street fighter games dont take ages to finish unlike starcraft matches which take alot longer to finish | ||
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IpKaiFung
United Kingdom91 Posts
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RPGabe
United States192 Posts
It's a misunderstanding. On its surface it may appear that guys are just mashing buttons and hollering, but there are strategic decisions to compliment the technique required to play fighting games well. They're just not as easy to recognize as a flashy combo or interesting setup. It's actually very similar to SC2 in that technique (improving macroing would be a good comparison to fighting game execution) can drastically improve you as a player and is most likely one of the first things you should focus on when beginning to improve, but you must ultimately round out your skillset if you intend to play at the top of the game. And much like RTS games, there are different varieties of players in fighting games. There are players with good game sense that are known for the consistent proper decision making - we call them smart. There are creative players - we call them stylish. There are players known for their technique or execution. There are players known for their impeccable defense and others for their wild unpredictable aggression and pressure. And there are players who are a little bit of each, or at times seemingly everything at once. I also wanted to comment briefly on the perception that the fighting game needs to get more into online play. For many it is too frustrating to consider with today's connection speeds in the US and the generally poor net coding in fighting games. Imagine unplugging your gaming mouse and trying to play SC2 using a laptop's touchpad. When the lag in a fighting game exceeds 30ms, the nature of the gameplay changes completely. Many of your combos, special moves and opportunities must be done in short precise windows of time. We're talking 1/15th or 1/30th of a second, even. Missing that window would be similar to showing up at your opponents base with a well-timed drop, releasing just 1 marine in the wrong place, and then flying the dropship home. The opportunity is lost, and your effort has actually worked against you as a result potentially opening you up to risk and punishment. Dropping that opportunity because of your own failing is bad enough, but being robbed of it by fluctuating lag conditions and skewed muscle memory is that much more frustrating. Even in any lag fighting gameplay can suffer. Pros can recognize instantly when they're playing on an HD TV that has 1-2 frames of lag compared to a proper setup. Your eyes are not fast enough to tell the difference, but you can recognize the disconnect between what you're experiencing and what your muscle memory knows. | ||
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ThaZenith
Canada3116 Posts
Some interesting points, and good for a little perspective, but there wasn't enough SC2 for me to really enjoy it.  (yes i know it was written for the fighting game community) | ||
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Flamingo777
United States1190 Posts
I believe this is an appropriate analogy, I've been a part of both communities for a decent amount of time. A lot of fighter players co-exist in the RTS community, however the general persona and energies of the communities differ intrinsically does the gifted opera singer and the hard-working rapper. As such, I can completely understand why some people would prefer a divide between the two gaming communities. | ||
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DerNebel
Denmark648 Posts
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hotbreakfest
United States145 Posts
On December 13 2011 20:39 Hall0wed wrote: I've always hated the FGC with a passion. They seem way more elitist than anyone else and their personalities are all pretty horrible for the most part. Really? It isn't too much different from the first 8 months after SC2 release. The idiots were eventually laughed off TL or banned. Don't be hating on the people's champ Mike Ross. http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/714815/focus-an-original-movie-about-street-fighter-champion-mike-ross-g4-films/ On December 13 2011 20:39 Hall0wed wrote: Also I have never been able to find the fun in playing fighting games competitively, so that doesn't help my outlook on these people. They are fun to play and watch but I could never imagine sitting around hammering out 1 combo or something for hours, where is the fun in that? I have a friend that used to be a competitive Melee player but I feel Melee is completely different (in a GREAT way) from other fighting games. Your talking about basic combos being difficult and yet you love melee. L-canceling has to be the most pointless and unnecessary execution barrier ever. On December 13 2011 20:39 Hall0wed wrote: But I don't think the FGC can keep growing on its own, eSports doesn't need them but they will need us if they actually want to expand. Actually the FGC is doing better than it ever has before. They won't be needing "esports" for a very long time. | ||
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DerNebel
Denmark648 Posts
On December 14 2011 05:12 hotbreakfest wrote: Actually the FGC is doing better than it ever has before. They won't be needing "esports" for a very long time. The FGC is a completely different beast and they won't take kindly to being so big that the pros need to be seperated from the crowd. That's just not how they do it. They will grow I think, but they won't take so kindly to MLG style events as we did, because it will make the pros unreachable and not players you could walk up beside, put in a quarter and play against. | ||
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Trumpet
United States1936 Posts
On December 13 2011 20:39 Hall0wed wrote: I've always hated the FGC with a passion. They seem way more elitist than anyone else and their personalities are all pretty horrible for the most part. Also I have never been able to find the fun in playing fighting games competitively, so that doesn't help my outlook on these people. They are fun to play and watch but I could never imagine sitting around hammering out 1 combo or something for hours, where is the fun in that? I have a friend that used to be a competitive Melee player but I feel Melee is completely different (in a GREAT way) from other fighting games. But I don't think the FGC can keep growing on its own, eSports doesn't need them but they will need us if they actually want to expand. So odd. I guess if you have never practiced a build order, practicing a combo seems weird. But if you actually play starcraft and weren't just a spectator, it's pretty normal. Don't know what else to say about that lol, just highlights even more of the difference where everyone in the FGC is a player and most in SC2 just watch. Rest of your post is just trolling =( After almost 2 decades, the FGC suddenly needs esports to grow? After the last Evo matched even MLG in viewers and blew it up in terms of attendance? Back under you're bridge! | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On December 14 2011 03:29 ICarrotU wrote: I respectfully disagree with the hype meter being lowered if the language on the stream is being kept clean. Spooky's stream for EVO 2011 was kept PG and was still very much just as hype as any previous EVO, if not more so, it's the matches, not the language, in my opinion. As UltraDavid put it, commentating is just icing on the cake for FGs. Yeah, you know what. It really isn't as bad as UD made it out to be. I've been an active member of both communities for a very long time. The article gave me a good laugh though. :D | ||
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Mannerheim
766 Posts
On December 13 2011 20:39 Hall0wed wrote: Also I have never been able to find the fun in playing fighting games competitively, so that doesn't help my outlook on these people. They are fun to play and watch but I could never imagine sitting around hammering out 1 combo or something for hours, where is the fun in that? It's no different than practicing build orders and timing pushes in SC2, really. | ||
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Kimaker
United States2131 Posts
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MLG_Adam
United States994 Posts
http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/editorial-vote-with-your-quarters-warning-long.150754/page-5 | ||
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Fighter
Korea (South)1531 Posts
One of the big things, I think, that will influence the development of the FCG is whether or not they can find the right games for a spectator sport. I used to LOVE watching competitive Melee. But then Brawl came out, and... ugh. I don't have too much experience with other fighting games, but they'll need to have more than just timing and a few combos to make them entertaining. Compare SFIII: 3rd Strike, with its ability for parries to a game like Tekken. I haven't played Tekken6, but I don't remember any of the older games having any interesting mechanics like parrying. I've watched Tekken6 tounies a few times, and they just haven't been very exciting, and the game pretty much felt just like the old ones on the PS1. | ||
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blackone
Germany1314 Posts
On December 14 2011 06:14 MLG_Adam wrote: I responded on SRK to this debate. http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/editorial-vote-with-your-quarters-warning-long.150754/page-5 ...I'm a sports guy. Diehard Ohio State Buckeyes fan, Lebron hater, Tebow believer, Roy Jones Jr. nostalgia-ist, GSP grease accuser, BJ Penn lover, Yankees diehard from childhood memories of Don Mattingly, and Roy Bourque supporter because he was the toughest fighter on the first NHL Hockey for Sega... ... Lebron hater, Tebow believer, Roy Jones Jr. nostalgia-ist... ...Tebow believer... ...Tebow... ...TEBOW He's following me. EVERYWHERE. /cry | ||
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