|
That's still a bail out option. If you double team Kobe and he throws it to Bynum or Gasol in the post they are still going to create a shot for themselves. Just as if not more deadly since you've got a 7 footer about to take a high % shot in single coverage.
Lebon, Wade, Dirk, iso Joe, Melo, Pierce - you really think no one ever gets doubled like Kobe? Like I've said before, the defining trait of Kobe is that he'd rather shoot over 2 guys than make a play for another teammate like Wade or Lebron would. I think that's why people assume Kobe is always getting doubled when it's not like he's getting it more than anyone else. When you can score at a high level teams are going to double you and hope for the best unless you're Chris Paul, Nash or Jason Kidd since those are exceptional ball handlers that can't be trapped and are (were) lightning quick.
On March 31 2012 08:00 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 07:42 Ace wrote:
I'm pretty sure I didn't say that. I was illustrating that to say "Defenses focus on Kobe more than they do on Westbrook because he has Durant on his team" is false. Kobe plays with Bynum and Gasol, Westbrook plays with Durant and Harden. All 6 of them are offensively talented so any defense worth their salt is going to double any of them at some point, and realize they have credible bail out options at others.
I also think you're overrating double teams. Kobe doesn't bring the ball up the court with him and get trapped every play of the game, and he isn't fighting for position on the block against 2 guys before he gets the ball. Kobe shoots a lot because that's who he is without a major care to the defense. There have been plenty of superstar players, including some in the league right now that have gotten double teamed a ton and still put up better numbers than Kobe. Pretty sure the only player that gets double teamed as much as Kobe would be Dwight Howard, and he can put numbers despite the double teams simply because he's a center and he's just plain bigger and stronger than everyone else. Lebron James and Dwayne Wade don't get doubled like he does, why? You can't double one and leave the other with potential open looks. Also, what the guy above me just said is totally accurate. Perhaps now with sessions kobe has a bailout option, but prior to him he has no perimiter bailout which is why when kobe got doubled on the catch there'd almost inevitably be a shot right before a violation unless kobe could somehow get it into the post. Defenses now against the lakers are entirely focused around kobe on the perimiter and then collapsing on Bynum or Gasol if they manage to get it in the post.
If you've got the numbers to back it up, I'd love to proven wrong. But when Wade and Lebron were going solo on teams worse than the Lakers have, you can't say with a straight face Kobe was getting doubled more than those guys. You'd literally be saying NBA teams are so dumb that Kobe, who has primarily been a jumpshooter and not a playmaker these past few years is getting vastly more double coverage than guys who are making plays that also don't rely on their jump shot as much. That just does not add up. At all.
|
where would i even go about getting official double team numbers? lol.
Also calling Kobe Bryant "primarily" a jump shooter is like saying a Swiss Army knife is primarily a knife.
|
They may get doubled teamed like him, just not as much. Sure every star gets double teamed. They have more tools to work with. I honestly havent seen any of those guys get double teamed as much. Sure hed rather shoot over them and they know that so he does it more. Thats precisely why they do it, if Dirk started shooting over double teams rather than letting it go theyd do it to him everytime to. Wether Kobe is just more dangerous or a bigger threat is not the issue, whatever the reason he gets more attention than anyone else in the league. I dont see how thats illusory at all.
And please. Miami is trash in the half court compared to the rest of their game. Whatre you gonna do double team in transition ? They dont get doubled as often. Take the transition (just hypothetically) away and their freak defense away from them and they arent really all that much despite Lebron and D Wade on the court compared to teams on par with them. And we are talking right now. Not when they were going solo.
As for just throwing it into the post. Mmmzz harder to hit that from a trap then all court players those other guys have. Hell the only reason Orlando has won as many games they have this year is because Howard can just throw it out and the rest of the team is nothing but above average 3 shooters. Thats why a Miami or a Chicago will murder them even on a good day. And on bad ones, they get blown out by the knicks.
|
@vindicare: I don't know, but I'd love to find it  . And yes, Kobe has relied on his jumper a lot more recently. It's one of the reasons he's shooting so poorly even for his standards. Kobe isn't what you'd call an efficient scorer but he sure as hell isn't this bad.
@Rebs: Miami has 2 of the best half court players in the NBA throughout their careers, and they have been one of the best half court teams for the last 2 seasons. Keep watching highlights and thinking their transition game is what matters though.
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post/_/id/12816/meet-the-nbas-best-halfcourt-team
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/39404/scouting-the-stats-heat-at-thunder
To save you some time:
According to our video-tracking friends at Synergy Sports, the Thunder average 0.93 points per play and have an effective field goal percentage of 50.2 percent in the half court, both of which rank second in the NBA.
Miami, which ranks third in both categories, is the only team which scores more often in the half court than Oklahoma City, scoring on nearly 45 percent of their half-court plays.
There hasn't been a team in the modern NBA that has had a high offensive efficiency/rank and been bad in the half-court. It's literally impossible. The only other way would be if you could generate enough steals, rebounding and elite shot blocking to turn the game into a ton of transition possessions.
|
Has anyone seen a Spurs game lately?
They are imaginary according to ESPN/TNT.
|
yeah, I don't think their transition offense is meaningful against top teams in the playoffs.
|
On March 31 2012 08:20 Ace wrote:@vindicare: I don't know, but I'd love to find it . And yes, Kobe has relied on his jumper a lot more recently. It's one of the reasons he's shooting so poorly even for his standards. Kobe isn't what you'd call an efficient scorer but he sure as hell isn't this bad. @Rebs: Miami has 2 of the best half court players in the NBA throughout their careers, and they have been one of the best half court teams for the last 2 seasons. Keep watching highlights and thinking their transition game is what matters though. http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post/_/id/12816/meet-the-nbas-best-halfcourt-teamhttp://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/39404/scouting-the-stats-heat-at-thunderTo save you some time: Show nested quote +
According to our video-tracking friends at Synergy Sports, the Thunder average 0.93 points per play and have an effective field goal percentage of 50.2 percent in the half court, both of which rank second in the NBA.
Miami, which ranks third in both categories, is the only team which scores more often in the half court than Oklahoma City, scoring on nearly 45 percent of their half-court plays.
There hasn't been a team in the modern NBA that has had a high offensive efficiency/rank and been bad in the half-court. It's literally impossible. The only other way would be if you could generate enough steals, rebounding and elite shot blocking to turn the game into a ton of transition possessions.
Yea thats right lets be presumptous because obviously people couldnt have possibly scene games on ESPN or the internet. I didnt say they were a bad half court team. I said they werent as good as it as it might seem because its not under pressure because of all the easy scores. Yes they have arguably the 2 best finishers in the game, and yes theyve been better in the paint then ever in their carrers. But thats so inflated because they dont have to break half court sets as much. Clearly Im the one watching highlights. I also said teams on par with them, this is the Bulls, the OKCs hell even the Lakers have a decent shot and your Atlantas and Phillys will have a good go at them aswell.
O thats also why the Pacers rocked them when they took away most of the fast breaks. Or do I need to give you stats for that because I only saw highlights.
|
Right, because that Pacers game erases the last 2 seasons worth of data. So when every other team has taken away Miami's transition game but still got killed by 2 dudes who shoot at 50% for a season and score in the top % of the NBA while taking the most shot attempts on their team - how can they be bad in the half court? Can you even begin to tell me what makes Miami so bad in the half court if it's true?
|
why are you harping on the same thing. No they arent bad in the half court. My words were a bit strong but the point still stands. They are an average half court team. Maybe that just because they havent had to be a great one, whatever. And yes thats exactly why they shoot 50 percent for the season and take the most attempts, theyre the beneficiries of the most the transition offens, ONTOP of what they do in the halfcourt. Your basically making my case for me. How can being good in transition work against those stats. And ofcourse they crushed teams early on in the season. its Lebron and D Wade, it takes a while for teams in a bad defensive season as it is + the short span to figure out how to handle it. But theyve clearly started to do that. Should Miami be worried ? No, because they are good enough to own it up in half court sets to. But they havent had to play as many as other top teams and they arent as good at it, especially considering the players they have.
|
How can they be average when they score the most in the half court of any team in the NBA? Are you even trying to read what I posted?
|
On March 31 2012 08:20 Ace wrote:@vindicare: I don't know, but I'd love to find it . And yes, Kobe has relied on his jumper a lot more recently. It's one of the reasons he's shooting so poorly even for his standards. Kobe isn't what you'd call an efficient scorer but he sure as hell isn't this bad. @Rebs: Miami has 2 of the best half court players in the NBA throughout their careers, and they have been one of the best half court teams for the last 2 seasons. Keep watching highlights and thinking their transition game is what matters though. http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post/_/id/12816/meet-the-nbas-best-halfcourt-teamhttp://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/39404/scouting-the-stats-heat-at-thunderTo save you some time: Show nested quote +
According to our video-tracking friends at Synergy Sports, the Thunder average 0.93 points per play and have an effective field goal percentage of 50.2 percent in the half court, both of which rank second in the NBA.
Miami, which ranks third in both categories, is the only team which scores more often in the half court than Oklahoma City, scoring on nearly 45 percent of their half-court plays.
There hasn't been a team in the modern NBA that has had a high offensive efficiency/rank and been bad in the half-court. It's literally impossible. The only other way would be if you could generate enough steals, rebounding and elite shot blocking to turn the game into a ton of transition possessions.
Am I blind or is Philly left out in the first link you posted? I know their half-court offense this season has been pretty bad, but I'd like to see how they match up versus the rest of the NBA :o
|
They are there, slightly below Chicago
|
Orl(y) vs Mavs!
hope we recover from the "dunk if you please" game yesterday-.-
|
NYK is going to the playoffs for sure and gonna beat MIAMI or BULLS with ease.
|
Anyone here using League Pass on NBA.tv? If so, can one of you check the Pistons vs. Bulls game and see if you can load it up? Mine is stuck loading while all the other games are working perfectly :\
|
On March 31 2012 08:42 Ace wrote:
How can they be average when they score the most in the half court of any team in the NBA? Are you even trying to read what I posted?
Well for starters thats a month old. Alots happened since then. Like I said Miami doesnt need to really be to worried about it. Infact I think theyd raher it happen now than later in the plaoffs. But recent games ts still make a clear indication that they need to work on it.
Secondly, look regular seasons important and all and thats fine, Miami destroys most teams in the league regardless halfcourt or otherwise. You dont win 70+ percent of your games by just being good in transition. Im not even contesting any of that. Everything Ive said regarding that has been with respect to teams that have started to and will continue to limit them in the transition and pressure theyre halfcourt offense, because cheap points are harder to come by. Conventional wisdom is called that because its usually true. Sure the stats you posted suggest otherwise but if stats like that tell you the complete picture of how Miami is matching up against teams they actually have to worry about to win a championship, then give them the trophy now.
|
On Wiz vs Kentucky:
"What I do know is this. With NCAA rules, the Wiz will win, but with NBA rules, the Wiz will lose,
because they can sure play 40 minutes, but they're screwed if it goes 48."
|
Carmelo playing vintage with the strain groin.
|
|
|
His signature crossover fade-away not working tonight.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
