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Ace
United States16096 Posts
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1164119 So many interesting things that come up in this discussion (as usual on RealGM when certain posters are involved) that will help some of you see the sport in an enlightening way. If there is one post that is one you must read because it's a long thread, read this one: http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1164119&start=135#p30662960 | ||
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AntiGrav1ty
Germany2310 Posts
Since when does it matter how good your teammates are for MVP? If you have the best team and are the best player in your team you are most likely gonna be the MVP that season. It's always been like that. Changing it out of the blue would be pretty arbitrary. There were a lot of players who were a lot more valuable to their team than the actual mvp winners but they were not on a top3 team and therefore not really considered. Now you could debate whether its fair in general, but the way mvp has been given out the years before Drose did deserve it. | ||
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0kz
Italy1118 Posts
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x2fst
1272 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16129 Posts
On March 20 2012 18:27 x2fst wrote: gonna be even more of travesty if lbj gets shafted again after one of the best regular seasons of all time, durants built a pretty solid case for himself though, sick stats, better record than the heat, game winners, clutch play etc If Kobe can get shafted in 2006, Lebron can get shafted anytime. Durant is making a big case for himself also, in the end it's mostly a popularity contest and LBJ is not the most popular player on the court. Even his fans must acknowledge that. | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On March 20 2012 17:38 AntiGrav1ty wrote: Just in response to your post, havent read the long post yet: Since when does it matter how good your teammates are for MVP? If you have the best team and are the best player in your team you are most likely gonna be the MVP that season. It's always been like that. Changing it out of the blue would be pretty arbitrary. There were a lot of players who were a lot more valuable to their team than the actual mvp winners but they were not on a top3 team and therefore not really considered. Now you could debate whether its fair in general, but the way mvp has been given out the years before Drose did deserve it. because the meaning of MVP is quite arbitrary :/ | ||
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Riskr
Germany403 Posts
Now up to the Lakers,can´t wait. | ||
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AntiGrav1ty
Germany2310 Posts
On March 20 2012 20:22 rabidch wrote: because the meaning of MVP is quite arbitrary :/ I don't agree with the way MVP trophies are handed out either but singling out Drose when the whole process has been like that forever seems unfair to Rose. | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On March 20 2012 20:30 AntiGrav1ty wrote: I don't agree with the way MVP trophies are handed out either but singling out Drose when the whole process has been like that forever seems unfair to Rose. true, but those people probably have problems with the entire MVP thing in general | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On March 20 2012 20:30 AntiGrav1ty wrote: I don't agree with the way MVP trophies are handed out either but singling out Drose when the whole process has been like that forever seems unfair to Rose. Well DRose is just the latest example of when it becomes more of a media + story award rather than an actual great, historic play award. Having good teammates was actually a case against Lebron last year  If it was fairly consistent and based on record then San Antonio should be complaining that no one on their team was even in consideration last year. The only problem with the award isn't even that "being on a top 3 team" is a pre-req: it's that the definition changes every year. As another poster said, Kobe 2006, Garnett in a number of other years, Wade 2006/2009...I mean all of these guys have played on terrible teams and accomplished some amazing feats rarely duplicated in NBA history. But a guy on a better team who has a relatively easier job because his teammates are better deserves the award more? Or a guy who doesn't play with another All-Star which is once again a subjective measure of a player's value deserves it more? One of the weirdest things about giving the award to Rose is that even if he gets much better from now on, unless he does something exceptionally historic or wins multiple chips he probably won't get another one which underscores the point: The winner is all about narrative and politics rather than looking at how great a player is in comparison with his peers. Let's look at it another way: The MVP award is sometimes given to a player that is without a doubt top 5 player. I don't think anyone being serious thinks Rose was one of the best 5 players in the NBA last year. So was the award based on Rose's skills, the surprising success of his team (only a surprise to media guys because they know nothing), or because Lebron James went to Miami? | ||
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AntiGrav1ty
Germany2310 Posts
On March 20 2012 21:40 Ace wrote: Well DRose is just the latest example of when it becomes more of a media + story award rather than an actual great, historic play award. Having good teammates was actually a case against Lebron last year If it was fairly consistent and based on record then San Antonio should be complaining that no one on their team was even in consideration last year. The only problem with the award isn't even that "being on a top 3 team" is a pre-req: it's that the definition changes every year. As another poster said, Kobe 2006, Garnett in a number of other years, Wade 2006/2009...I mean all of these guys have played on terrible teams and accomplished some amazing feats rarely duplicated in NBA history. But a guy on a better team who has a relatively easier job because his teammates are better deserves the award more? Or a guy who doesn't play with another All-Star which is once again a subjective measure of a player's value deserves it more? One of the weirdest things about giving the award to Rose is that even if he gets much better from now on, unless he does something exceptionally historic or wins multiple chips he probably won't get another one which underscores the point: The winner is all about narrative and politics rather than looking at how great a player is in comparison with his peers. Let's look at it another way: The MVP award is sometimes given to a player that is without a doubt top 5 player. I don't think anyone being serious thinks Rose was one of the best 5 players in the NBA last year. So was the award based on Rose's skills, the surprising success of his team (only a surprise to media guys because they know nothing), or because Lebron James went to Miami? Because the Bulls had the best record and Rose was their star player. Pretty simple if you ask me. I can't really follow ur string of thought tho. All the arguments you are putting together are pretty random. Why would it be weird that he only wins MVP once? And even if it is weird, why should that have implications on his mvp season? What does being one of the 5 best players have to do with the MVP award? Nobody ever said that this was supposed to be a criteria. There are no real guidelines on how to vote for mvp so of course the voters are gonna be subjective. In general they always voted for the best player on one of the best teams. Pretty consistent actually. I don't see how anyone could make specific guidelines for MVP voting either. The only sure thing would be basing it on stats but thats just bad.... | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On March 20 2012 11:41 VENDIZ wrote: That has to be painful to watch as a Magic fan, Bulls setting a new franchise record in fewest points allowed.. I always find it weird when playoff games are discounted from records like that. I know there's a separate list of records for playoff games but shouldn't records that say ever contain both regular season and the playoffs? | ||
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
And it's funny nobody's talking about the Ramon Sessions story, even though he's on the Lakers now. An | ||
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scaban84
United States1080 Posts
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Holcan
Canada2593 Posts
by that argument, the best player best team one, manu was only one win and one lose from being co-mvp with rose, but his name wasn't even mentioned, it was predetermined that rose would be mvp long before the seasons end. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Holcan
Canada2593 Posts
for those interested in the mock draft and seeing which teams have which picks. imgur.com/a/Rq4HI | ||
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VENDIZ
1575 Posts
On March 20 2012 15:37 Ace wrote: Chicago fans should read this. Note the title may get people a bit prickly but the discussion is exactly what I was saying last year about the Bulls and why Derrick Rose being MVP was a pretty fucked up decision: Everyone else on that team is much better than given credit for (Especially Deng). http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1164119 So many interesting things that come up in this discussion (as usual on RealGM when certain posters are involved) that will help some of you see the sport in an enlightening way. If there is one post that is one you must read because it's a long thread, read this one: http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1164119&start=135#p30662960 The OP in that thread threw me off, if you're on a winning team with the biggest plus point differential in the NBA and you get more minutes (and have more games played), surely you'll be a +/- stud compared to someone who doesn't play the same minutes? And the second link was all about the Bulls defense and how Noah is so important, which everyone already knew? Did I miss something crucial? I just skimmed through it really :o | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Ansinjunger
United States2451 Posts
On March 20 2012 23:36 igotmyown wrote: Why does everyone want Derek Fisher now? It's not like his veteran helped the Lakers avoid getting swept by the Mavericks or saved him from being a liability at the point guard position. And it's funny nobody's talking about the Ramon Sessions story, even though he's on the Lakers now. An He knows how to counter-flop though. | ||
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