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On March 12 2012 16:48 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:43 Ace wrote:
What does them being in the East/West have to do with it? Look at their PDs and their games when missing players with injuries: Both teams still managed two of the best records and the 2 highest PDs aside from Philly in the entire league.
Dallas won because they got hot and out played Miami. But if you honestly think that there were Western teams on the level of Miami or Chicago even last year then I think you're lying. The only team last year that had a dominant run like them was San Antonio.
Chicago is even better than last year. Same problem with injuries, this time to Rose and Deng - ranked even better offensively. Miami is also ranked better offensively over last year and both teams still have top defenses.
I'm not sure what a team has to do to be dominant in your book because by any metric of modern NBA teams they are both dominant. This is 2000s Lakers, 2008-2010 Celtics, and mid 2000s Indy/Detroit all over. Like I said. I'll see you in the playoffs. I don't even know why guys like you that obviously watch a LOT of Basketball even bother to use regular season statistics to judge how things are going to go in the playoffs. They've been worth next to nothing for the last 4 years. If regular season stats held up Lebron James would be working on his third ring right now. The post season is a whole other beast and simply put, Miami and Chicago are not as good as they're being hyped up to be when compared with the upper echelon teams in the West. Any of the top 5 teams in the west have a legit shot at unseating either of them in a Bo7. Come playoffs, they'll prove it.
I don't see how a team like the Thunder aren't vastly overrated if you can make a case for Miami & Chicago.. and as for Memphis or LAC beating either Heat or the Bulls in a Bo7 is.. optimistic to say the least.
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On March 12 2012 10:25 Ace wrote:
Chicago and Miami are pretty fucking dominant. They're the far and away best 2 teams in the league and their records actually don't reflect how much better they are than everyone else.
And you say that based on what exactly? I'd argue that records in the East are inflated if anything. Eastern conference teams play more against the likes of Washington, Charlotte, Toronto, New Jersey, Detroit, Cleveland... I'd say that even New Orleans, with its awful record in the West, is better than those teams. There simply is no bad team in the West except the Hornets and the Kings, no free wins.
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On March 12 2012 16:48 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:43 Ace wrote:
What does them being in the East/West have to do with it? Look at their PDs and their games when missing players with injuries: Both teams still managed two of the best records and the 2 highest PDs aside from Philly in the entire league.
Dallas won because they got hot and out played Miami. But if you honestly think that there were Western teams on the level of Miami or Chicago even last year then I think you're lying. The only team last year that had a dominant run like them was San Antonio.
Chicago is even better than last year. Same problem with injuries, this time to Rose and Deng - ranked even better offensively. Miami is also ranked better offensively over last year and both teams still have top defenses.
I'm not sure what a team has to do to be dominant in your book because by any metric of modern NBA teams they are both dominant. This is 2000s Lakers, 2008-2010 Celtics, and mid 2000s Indy/Detroit all over. Like I said. I'll see you in the playoffs. I don't even know why guys like you that obviously watch a LOT of Basketball even bother to use regular season statistics to judge how things are going to go in the playoffs. They've been worth next to nothing for the last 4 years. If regular season stats held up Lebron James would be working on his third ring right now. The post season is a whole other beast and simply put, Miami and Chicago are not as good as they're being hyped up to be when compared with the upper echelon teams in the West. Any of the top 5 teams in the west have a legit shot at unseating either of them in a Bo7. Come playoffs, they'll prove it.
....or maybe not. Only one shot at this, and in one series anything can happen. No matter what you think of Miami and Chicago it's silly to say they will definitely lose the finals.
Personnally I think they would be the favourite against any Western conference team, but not by much.
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On March 12 2012 17:22 MilesTeg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:25 Ace wrote:
Chicago and Miami are pretty fucking dominant. They're the far and away best 2 teams in the league and their records actually don't reflect how much better they are than everyone else. And you say that based on what exactly? I'd argue that records in the East are inflated if anything. Eastern conference teams play more against the likes of Washington, Charlotte, Toronto, New Jersey, Detroit, Cleveland... I'd say that even New Orleans, with its awful record in the West, is better than those teams. There simply is no bad team in the West except the Hornets and the Kings, no free wins.
There's no doubt that the Western Conference is better than the Eastern, but the best teams in the East (at least this counts for Chicago) have either won all games or split the series versus the four best teams in the West (and the one game they lost to Memphis was without Derrick Rose). I mean, at the end of the day, if one team beats all the others, then surely they are a really good team, and not worse than the teams they've beaten (and they've also played the most road games in the NBA this season)?!
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Does anyone else look at the NBA in these terms:
Two kinds of teams:
Miami.
Teams that could beat Miami is a Bo7. (Chicago, OKC...................maybe a couple others).
Very different from a league like MLB or the NHL where anyone can beat anyone. I don't get the same sense in the NBA. I think that this is both a good thing and a bad thing. Of course I want to see the best teams in the conference and NBA finals....but at the same time I wish there was more parity in the other 80% of the league.
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On March 12 2012 22:10 Zorkmid wrote:
Does anyone else look at the NBA in these terms:
Two kinds of teams:
Miami.
Teams that could beat Miami is a Bo7. (Chicago, OKC...................maybe a couple others).
Very different from a league like MLB or the NHL where anyone can beat anyone. I don't get the same sense in the NBA. I think that this is both a good thing and a bad thing. Of course I want to see the best teams in the conference and NBA finals....but at the same time I wish there was more parity in the other 80% of the league.
Well, I guess most people would think of it in that way, because on paper Miami "should be unbeatable" and so forth, you don't have a scenario like that in MLB, NFL or NHL.
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Man that last page was people shitting all ovet Dallas, claiming they weren't an elite team. either you didn't watch them last year, or you are grossly over estimating the impact dirk had on the team. Dallas was very, very good last year, in terms of personal, coaching, defense, role definition. Not to mention they had the highest paid team in the league. I remember being happy portland match them in the first round because we matched up well against them, and Dallas literaly dismantled our offense outside of brandon roys game. Miami may have been favoured by media pundits, but fuck that Dallas team was good.
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yeah a lot of people make the excuse that dallas just played extremely well last year, much better than their usual or what was expected of them. and while that's true to a degree, what the biggest factor is concerning their "disappointing" performance this regular season is that they lost a lot of key players, players that made a HUGE impact mostly on the defensive end.
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On March 13 2012 01:23 BlueRoyaL wrote:
yeah a lot of people make the excuse that dallas just played extremely well last year, much better than their usual or what was expected of them. and while that's true to a degree, what the biggest factor is concerning their "disappointing" performance this regular season is that they lost a lot of key players, players that made a HUGE impact mostly on the defensive end.
Wasn't Dallas' start last year quite bad? If I recall correctly they had a serious push after the All-Star break which landed them a decent playoff seed, and from there the rest is history (so this year might be something similar)?
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On March 13 2012 01:35 VENDIZ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 01:23 BlueRoyaL wrote:
yeah a lot of people make the excuse that dallas just played extremely well last year, much better than their usual or what was expected of them. and while that's true to a degree, what the biggest factor is concerning their "disappointing" performance this regular season is that they lost a lot of key players, players that made a HUGE impact mostly on the defensive end. Wasn't Dallas' start last year quite bad? If I recall correctly they had a serious push after the All-Star break which landed them a decent playoff seed, and from there the rest is history (so this year might be something similar)?
Lol.. No.
They started 24-5.. on pace to win 70 games.. just no. Dallas is done, unless Dirk decides to not be lazy and the team loses the championship hangover..
In other news.. D12 is an idiot for vetoing a trade to Chicago.. dude needs to get his ego in check. He is not a #1 guy.. dude is a robin ala Lebron.
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miami in my mind is not unbeatable in actuality nor on paper. When OKC is playing team basketball, i think they are unbeatable. When westbrook goes westbrook, then they are beatable. For Miami, 2/3 of their big three MUST play well for the team to win. If 2/3 are having an off night (which does happen), they will almost certainly lose. Major props to team basketball squads like how the Celtics are looking right now. They ended the game with 39 FGs made and 33 total assists. That is some beautiful basketball and that's how an inferior celtic squad almost beat the lakers in LA.
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the only struggle dallas had last year was dirk going down in jan or feb with an injury and the team lost 6 in a row. as soon as dirk came back they were another serious team. I usually hate on dallas, calling soft and whatnot, but last year they were anything but.
kidd, stevensons, marion, dirk, chandler, that is a myriad of man to man defenders who can switch on a lot of defensive schemes.
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How can anyone not say Miami isn't having a dominant season? Are we watching the same game here? The Heat get the best effort out of every team and city they go to, and yet they come out and sometimes make it look so easy, taking the sold-out, jam-packed arena right out of it. The only other team that can relate with that are the Lakers, and we see how horrible their road record is this year.
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On March 13 2012 01:51 MassHysteria wrote:
How can anyone not say Miami isn't having a dominant season? Are we watching the same game here? The Heat get the best effort out of every team and city they go to, and yet they come out and sometimes make it look so easy, taking the sold-out, jam-packed arena right out of it. The only other team that can relate with that are the Lakers, and we see how horrible their road record is this year.
You're forgetting the biggest question mark this team has and that's if Lebron can come through in the Finals (if they make it), especially in the fourth quarter. He likes to disappear when it matters most.
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that doesn't matter at all, if the only reason they make the finals is lebron james. who cares if he misses the last shot? he put them in the scenario for the last shot, it is his decision on what to do with it from there. last I checked lbj still puts up damn near a triple double in 4th quarters over 36, what else is there to say? he doesn't score as many points as you want him to? bullocks.
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On March 13 2012 01:53 Holcan wrote:
that doesn't matter at all, if the only reason they make the finals is lebron james. who cares if he misses the last shot? he put them in the scenario for the last shot, it is his decision on what to do with it from there. last I checked lbj still puts up damn near a triple double in 4th quarters over 36, what else is there to say? he doesn't score as many points as you want him to? bullocks.
How does that not matter? They lost to Dallas last year cause he went invisible in games 5 and 6, are you serious? Heat will only go as far as Lebron takes them and last year he didn't take them to the championship. Typical choke artist, Scottie Pippen-type.
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On March 13 2012 01:47 Holcan wrote:
the only struggle dallas had last year was dirk going down in jan or feb with an injury and the team lost 6 in a row. as soon as dirk came back they were another serious team. I usually hate on dallas, calling soft and whatnot, but last year they were anything but.
kidd, stevensons, marion, dirk, chandler, that is a myriad of man to man defenders who can switch on a lot of defensive schemes.
yeah, thats why i'm saying that this year is pretty different for them in terms of what they can bring to the table.
they lost chandler (key defensive-player and played pretty well offensively in some key games last playoffs), and I still think them losing barea was a noticeable loss (many consider him to be very marginal, but if you actually watched the games last year i thought he did pretty well coming off their bench, and contributed well).
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United States22883 Posts
On March 13 2012 02:18 bebe01 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 01:53 Holcan wrote:
that doesn't matter at all, if the only reason they make the finals is lebron james. who cares if he misses the last shot? he put them in the scenario for the last shot, it is his decision on what to do with it from there. last I checked lbj still puts up damn near a triple double in 4th quarters over 36, what else is there to say? he doesn't score as many points as you want him to? bullocks. How does that not matter? They lost to Dallas last year cause he went invisible in games 5 and 6, are you serious? Heat will only go as far as Lebron takes them and last year he didn't take them to the championship. Typical choke artist, Scottie Pippen-type.
We got ourselves another bandwagon Knicks fan who only started following basketball 4 weeks ago. 
I think his previous 2 finals Kobe's shot something like 30% in the 4th quarter. DOMINANT
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On March 13 2012 02:19 BlueRoyaL wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 01:47 Holcan wrote:
the only struggle dallas had last year was dirk going down in jan or feb with an injury and the team lost 6 in a row. as soon as dirk came back they were another serious team. I usually hate on dallas, calling soft and whatnot, but last year they were anything but.
kidd, stevensons, marion, dirk, chandler, that is a myriad of man to man defenders who can switch on a lot of defensive schemes. yeah, thats why i'm saying that this year is pretty different for them in terms of what they can bring to the table. they lost chandler (key defensive-player and played pretty well offensively in some key games last playoffs), and I still think them losing barea was a noticeable loss (many consider him to be very marginal, but if you actually watched the games last year i thought he did pretty well coming off their bench, and contributed well). I don't disagree that they clearly regressed, but Dallas was playing as good as ball as anyone last year, Miami was, and will be, a more dominanting team, but when Dallas had all cylinders clicking they were better than Okc (who also regressed) and Chicago.
That team was fucking good, they are back to old Dallas form, now.
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There was no amount of mad skills rose can have to make up for the freak of nature that is James. someone with the size of James should not be able to defend rose 30feet away from the basket. James was playing good during clutch time vs Rose defensively, that's what owned the bulls last year. I don't think the bulls improved enough to beat last year's Heat, not to mention this year Miami has improved.
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EPT
