I stopped WoW after Ulduar. That was the last raid that was fun and didn't had this fucking retarded "MoreHP/MoreDmg"-Mode. The motivation to progress Raid X was in TBC just to see the content. How many people killed Vashj/Kael'Thas Pre-Nerf? Most of the players didn't even saw them. Why waste time in a Raid when you already killed all the bosses in the Full-Retard-Finder and the EZPZ-Mode? But who cares, WoW is dead - it will never be fun again.
because its fun to progress heroics with your guild? how many people killed heroic leishen? and why do you care how many people killed lfr leishen, are you envious? why. do. you. fucking. care. about other people. find a guild and raid heroics. Heroic is also content, they only use the same skin, but its entirely different bosses.
#1 I have no idea what you are talking about what is a Leischen? #2 You obviously have to do the EZPZ Content before to gear yourself. #3 WoW Raiding is terrible since they introduced the MoreHP/MoreDMG mode instead of just one hard mode. #4 I will never ever try this terrible game again.
Yes, you have no idea what you are talking about. #1 Lei shen is the current tier endboss. Out of 12500 raidgroups, who got at least one heroic kill, only 900 raidgroups, both 10man and 25man killed the endboss so far. That is content clear. I cant count the guilds which dont even have a single heroic down. #2 No you dont. #3 See, that might have been the case in Wotlk or even cata, but mop is different. Heroic bosses are often played completely different from normal mode, because of their added abilities. Also, on normal you can just ignore some abilities, whereas on hc they kill you. It's not just more hp and more dmg, it's really hard. #4 too bad, hc raiding is really fun right now
On August 11 2013 07:03 Loxley wrote: This should be renamed "old wow was better".. Hardly any posts are about MoP. Which is a great expansion on its own.
I would think the decided lack of posts about this expansion might sway you otherwise, actually. I've been resubbed for a month, after unsubbing in cata, to do casual arena with friends and the pvp balance/general feel certainly hasn't been worse since early wotlk. tried some casual pve, got bored with the absolute inability to wipe in LFR and the idea of doing that for a month before I'd even be eligible for pug normal ToT raids and stopped doing that entirely. meanwhile, every class has been inundated with cooldowns to spam and most prominent caster specs are completely proc-based arbitrarily, both of which feed into arenas being a wearying mess to try and learn a new class in.
I'm interested to hear what aspect of the game you think has been improved in this expansion other than, uh, battle pets. I wouldn't still be subbed if I didn't want to get 2k in 2s with a new class and see how resto druids play in 5.4 with the inexplicable buffs they're getting, because there's never been more MMOs on the horizon/up and running or other popular competitive games to play instead.
I've been playing the game since release and as fun as each expansion has been, MoP is easily the best they've had thus far. Granted, you could say the same about each one, TBC was far better than Vanilla, Wrath was better than TBC. I'd say Cata was better than Wrath, but even I don't really agree there lol. Mists is far, far, far better than Cata, and the others that came before it. I will admit, however, that my favorite time in the game was probably TBC, as I greatly enjoyed the raiding there, I'm loving it just as much right now though.
As for dungeon finders and whatever ruining the community? No, the community ruined the community. All the avenues are still there to do things the old way if you please, because you choose to ignore them doesn't mean they don't exist. Not directed at anyone in particular, but it's a common trend to demonize anything of the convenience factors in WoW as if they somehow decrease the value of the game. (They don't.)
No one is ever going to agree on it, so it's really silly to argue. If you enjoyed TBC, or Wrath, or even Cata more than Mists, then more power to you. It's just absurd to come in and chastise others because your opinion is different than theirs. "Stop liking what I don't like!"
LFR is great for people (like me atm) who don't have the time to involve themselves with high end raiding anymore.
But I've got to admit that the excitement of seeing a boss for the first time, and downing it (Vashj, KT, Illidan, hell even Ragnaros etc), and the sheer fun of hard mode Ulduar bosses with their fun mechanics and way to activate them is just gone.
Hard Modes are good and hard, and require a lot (raided HM until MoP and my fellow guildies like them), but... it's like the everyday job. No fun (for me). Already seen 3421554 times that boss before. More Algalon/Ra'den/Sinestra maybe ? Something to expect and motivate yourself to pull through ?!
The game keeps losing subs for a reason (yes i know at this point in time age is a factor). The game itself getting better in exchange of ruining the community is awful. I know a bit of friends for the exact same reasons deth2munkies was talking about. Personally i only ever play when my friend REALLY wants me to play for w/e content and pays for 1 month (lol i know) but i haven't played it out of my own free will since TBC and i don't see myself doing it anytime soon. I would rather play vanilla in an awfully bugged server (i don't atm but i would do that over current WoW, i've done it before).
This isn't about shoving someone's idea of the "best" WoW down someone else's throat but subs keep going down for a reason and im willing to bet is less the age of the game than the changes made (not to say some weren't good).
On August 11 2013 07:03 Loxley wrote: This should be renamed "old wow was better".. Hardly any posts are about MoP. Which is a great expansion on its own.
Yeah it is very silly needs a mod note. So annoying to constantly see this thread ranomly +20 posts and 19 of them are "Man vanilla was so good u could do x y z and now its all AMGEZWIN"
Go play Vanilla only servers or something, dont post in MISTS OF PANDA thread ;_;
Panda has been an "ok" expansion, probably same level as LK expansion but still a far way off TBC expansion. The new raids for PVE players are good and there is alot more things to do now. Arena seems to be getting more and more popular again and i think ppl are starting to get sucked into it.
5.4 is going to dramatically change most classes too, so its going to be interesting patch. Plus raid content for the hardcore PVE players and some more quests and stuff for the RPers.
Im guessing they will be announcing expansion no 5 at blizzconn later this year as 5.4 will be the last patch of Panda
On August 11 2013 07:38 xMiragex wrote: The game keeps losing subs for a reason (yes i know at this point in time age is a factor). The game itself getting better in exchange of ruining the community is awful. I know a bit of friends for the exact same reasons deth2munkies was talking about. Personally i only ever play when my friend REALLY wants me to play for w/e content and pays for 1 month (lol i know) but i haven't played it out of my own free will since TBC and i don't see myself doing it anytime soon. I would rather play vanilla in an awfully bugged server (i don't atm but i would do that over current WoW, i've done it before).
This isn't about shoving someone's idea of the "best" WoW down someone else's throat but subs keep going down for a reason and im willing to bet is less the age of the game than the changes made (not to say some weren't good).
And that's totally fair. Not everyone is going to like(or has to like) all the changes made to the game, and if that's why they're leaving, that's a perfectly valid reason. Saying "this game sucks because I don't like these changes" isn't a fair argument, because it's rampantly subjective. There's a ton of things I don't like, but I don't chide others for enjoying them, and I certainly don't run around shouting at people that disagree with me.
I fully admit that TBC, like I said, was the best time I had in the game and the sub numbers would tend to agree, as they first broke the 10m mark at the end of TBC, and stayed above that mark until towards the end of Cata. WoW hit in the perfect timeframe, and are holding on to that success. They launched at a time where their only real competition was Everquest, and they came in and streamlined a lot of what made Everquest great. They've continued to evolve as the market has evolved. They're losing subs now due to age surely, but I think it has less to do with the changes to the game itself, and more to do with the changes to the MMO market. It's never been easier to get into MMO gaming, and there's a new free-to-play alternative coming out almost every single day. The market is saturated, and it spreads everyone out.
The game loses subs because its getting very old and there are alternatives.
Damn, I played it for a very long time and acknowledge MoP as the best expansion but I had to stop because I'm really tired of it. I don't believe all the mumbo-jumbo about how it was better before. I was there at vanilla and every expansions and did almost every raid, and many things fucking sucked at each stage of the game. But it was new and fresh and all our hopes were intact. All our friends were playing too.
Some regrets are valid and I don't like every changes of course but there really isn't a way for a game to not lose subs.
I recently tried a free 10 days, and chose to level a Panda Monk. Have to say, leveling 1-45 was a blast again because almost ALL the quests were different! Worlds changed so much (haven't played in 2 years, since shortly after getting realm first Algalon 25). It was also nice to be able to solo all those group quests that I never had a chance to do before.
10 days past, and I felt like I still wanted to play casually, so I had a cousin send me a res scroll, only to find out I wasn't able to use it because of the free time I used last week. I sent in a ticket and the GM was amazing enough to still let me activate it! So I was able to move my level 19 shaman to my cousins server (DeathWing US) while leaving all my past behind on Kul Tiras US.
I purchased 3 months of play, and the MoP expansion. The only thing that drew me back in was the fact I'm going to Blizzcon in November, and wanted to be at least a little interested in whatever they show there. My 3 months should take me right to November 15th.
The game is 'dumbed down' a little with spells, tanking, healing, buffs, and general simplicity, but it is definitely better for casual folk. I doubt I will get back into raiding unless something 10 man and semi casual comes along, which raid finder might be able to fill for me. I have to say the account wide changes to achievements, titles, and mounts is amazing. I always hated that only one of my characters could have the Brew Kodo, or the Skele Raptor. It's also nice to show off Celestial Defender on whatever character I'm currently playing.
On August 11 2013 07:03 Loxley wrote: This should be renamed "old wow was better".. Hardly any posts are about MoP. Which is a great expansion on its own.
The focus are pandas and companionpet-fights! WoW has become a Companion-Pet and Mount-Simulator. I even tried Pandaland with the Trial and my Panda managed to get to Level2 before I quit! And with my 85 Pally I managed to do 3 quests in Pandaland before getting bored.
On August 11 2013 10:50 Schickysc wrote: I recently tried a free 10 days, and chose to level a Panda Monk. Have to say, leveling 1-45 was a blast again because almost ALL the quests were different! Worlds changed so much (haven't played in 2 years, since shortly after getting realm first Algalon 25). It was also nice to be able to solo all those group quests that I never had a chance to do before.
10 days past, and I felt like I still wanted to play casually, so I had a cousin send me a res scroll, only to find out I wasn't able to use it because of the free time I used last week. I sent in a ticket and the GM was amazing enough to still let me activate it! So I was able to move my level 19 shaman to my cousins server (DeathWing US) while leaving all my past behind on Kul Tiras US.
I purchased 3 months of play, and the MoP expansion. The only thing that drew me back in was the fact I'm going to Blizzcon in November, and wanted to be at least a little interested in whatever they show there. My 3 months should take me right to November 15th.
The game is 'dumbed down' a little with spells, tanking, healing, buffs, and general simplicity, but it is definitely better for casual folk. I doubt I will get back into raiding unless something 10 man and semi casual comes along, which raid finder might be able to fill for me. I have to say the account wide changes to achievements, titles, and mounts is amazing. I always hated that only one of my characters could have the Brew Kodo, or the Skele Raptor. It's also nice to show off Celestial Defender on whatever character I'm currently playing.
Leveling is an awesome experience as of Cata. That's by far the best thing it did. End game it gets very boring very fast.
I stopped WoW after Ulduar. That was the last raid that was fun and didn't had this fucking retarded "MoreHP/MoreDmg"-Mode. The motivation to progress Raid X was in TBC just to see the content. How many people killed Vashj/Kael'Thas Pre-Nerf? Most of the players didn't even saw them. Why waste time in a Raid when you already killed all the bosses in the Full-Retard-Finder and the EZPZ-Mode? But who cares, WoW is dead - it will never be fun again.
"How many people killed Vashj/Kael'Thas Pre-Nerf?Most of the players didn't even saw them."This is why tbc pve was so retarded.Unless you are in the%1 population of your server you couldnt even see the new content.How is it better game with only 1 percent of players playing the latest content? If you are hardcore raider now there are achievements, heroic modes, world or server first attempts.How will denying access to majority of players to latest content make your pve experience better. People saying vanilla-tbc better are either some hardcore elitists or living in nostalgia imo.
On August 11 2013 10:50 Schickysc wrote: I recently tried a free 10 days, and chose to level a Panda Monk. Have to say, leveling 1-45 was a blast again because almost ALL the quests were different! Worlds changed so much (haven't played in 2 years, since shortly after getting realm first Algalon 25). It was also nice to be able to solo all those group quests that I never had a chance to do before.
10 days past, and I felt like I still wanted to play casually, so I had a cousin send me a res scroll, only to find out I wasn't able to use it because of the free time I used last week. I sent in a ticket and the GM was amazing enough to still let me activate it! So I was able to move my level 19 shaman to my cousins server (DeathWing US) while leaving all my past behind on Kul Tiras US.
I purchased 3 months of play, and the MoP expansion. The only thing that drew me back in was the fact I'm going to Blizzcon in November, and wanted to be at least a little interested in whatever they show there. My 3 months should take me right to November 15th.
The game is 'dumbed down' a little with spells, tanking, healing, buffs, and general simplicity, but it is definitely better for casual folk. I doubt I will get back into raiding unless something 10 man and semi casual comes along, which raid finder might be able to fill for me. I have to say the account wide changes to achievements, titles, and mounts is amazing. I always hated that only one of my characters could have the Brew Kodo, or the Skele Raptor. It's also nice to show off Celestial Defender on whatever character I'm currently playing.
Leveling is really fun compared to old days now.After cata I leveled all classes to 85 then 90.Also gearing alts is much easier thanks to raid finder and stuff.
I stopped WoW after Ulduar. That was the last raid that was fun and didn't had this fucking retarded "MoreHP/MoreDmg"-Mode. The motivation to progress Raid X was in TBC just to see the content. How many people killed Vashj/Kael'Thas Pre-Nerf? Most of the players didn't even saw them. Why waste time in a Raid when you already killed all the bosses in the Full-Retard-Finder and the EZPZ-Mode? But who cares, WoW is dead - it will never be fun again.
"How many people killed Vashj/Kael'Thas Pre-Nerf?Most of the players didn't even saw them."This is why tbc pve was so retarded.Unless you are in the%1 population of your server you couldnt even see the new content.How is it better game with only 1 percent of players playing the latest content? If you are hardcore raider now there are achievements, heroic modes, world or server first attempts.How will denying access to majority of players to latest content make your pve experience better. People saying vanilla-tbc better are either some hardcore elitists or living in nostalgia imo.
No one was denied access. This is just a bad excuse made up by people that could only play a couple of hours every week but still demanded to see EVERYTHING the game had to offer + incompetent players who were too stupid to join -and stay in a decent guild. Raiding in TBC >>>> Everything else incl. vanilla.
I stopped WoW after Ulduar. That was the last raid that was fun and didn't had this fucking retarded "MoreHP/MoreDmg"-Mode. The motivation to progress Raid X was in TBC just to see the content. How many people killed Vashj/Kael'Thas Pre-Nerf? Most of the players didn't even saw them. Why waste time in a Raid when you already killed all the bosses in the Full-Retard-Finder and the EZPZ-Mode? But who cares, WoW is dead - it will never be fun again.
"How many people killed Vashj/Kael'Thas Pre-Nerf?Most of the players didn't even saw them."This is why tbc pve was so retarded.Unless you are in the%1 population of your server you couldnt even see the new content.How is it better game with only 1 percent of players playing the latest content? If you are hardcore raider now there are achievements, heroic modes, world or server first attempts.How will denying access to majority of players to latest content make your pve experience better. People saying vanilla-tbc better are either some hardcore elitists or living in nostalgia imo.
No one was denied access. This is just a bad excuse made up by people that could only play a couple of hours every week but still demanded to see EVERYTHING the game had to offer + incompetent players who were too stupid to join -and stay in a decent guild. Raiding in TBC >>>> Everything else incl. vanilla.
I agree Burning crusade has the best raids... my favorite raid ever... karazhan
I stopped WoW after Ulduar. That was the last raid that was fun and didn't had this fucking retarded "MoreHP/MoreDmg"-Mode. The motivation to progress Raid X was in TBC just to see the content. How many people killed Vashj/Kael'Thas Pre-Nerf? Most of the players didn't even saw them. Why waste time in a Raid when you already killed all the bosses in the Full-Retard-Finder and the EZPZ-Mode? But who cares, WoW is dead - it will never be fun again.
"How many people killed Vashj/Kael'Thas Pre-Nerf?Most of the players didn't even saw them."This is why tbc pve was so retarded.Unless you are in the%1 population of your server you couldnt even see the new content.How is it better game with only 1 percent of players playing the latest content? If you are hardcore raider now there are achievements, heroic modes, world or server first attempts.How will denying access to majority of players to latest content make your pve experience better. People saying vanilla-tbc better are either some hardcore elitists or living in nostalgia imo.
No one was denied access. This is just a bad excuse made up by people that could only play a couple of hours every week but still demanded to see EVERYTHING the game had to offer + incompetent players who were too stupid to join -and stay in a decent guild. Raiding in TBC >>>> Everything else incl. vanilla.
I agree Burning crusade has the best raids... my favorite raid ever... karazhan
I agree TBC had some epic raid content. The feeling was amazing, and it felt somewhat challenging. Even our first runs in Kara included many wipes. Then again raiding was new to us and our gear was blues....
I stopped WoW after Ulduar. That was the last raid that was fun and didn't had this fucking retarded "MoreHP/MoreDmg"-Mode. The motivation to progress Raid X was in TBC just to see the content. How many people killed Vashj/Kael'Thas Pre-Nerf? Most of the players didn't even saw them. Why waste time in a Raid when you already killed all the bosses in the Full-Retard-Finder and the EZPZ-Mode? But who cares, WoW is dead - it will never be fun again.
"How many people killed Vashj/Kael'Thas Pre-Nerf?Most of the players didn't even saw them."This is why tbc pve was so retarded.Unless you are in the%1 population of your server you couldnt even see the new content.How is it better game with only 1 percent of players playing the latest content? If you are hardcore raider now there are achievements, heroic modes, world or server first attempts.How will denying access to majority of players to latest content make your pve experience better. People saying vanilla-tbc better are either some hardcore elitists or living in nostalgia imo.
No one was denied access. This is just a bad excuse made up by people that could only play a couple of hours every week but still demanded to see EVERYTHING the game had to offer + incompetent players who were too stupid to join -and stay in a decent guild. Raiding in TBC >>>> Everything else incl. vanilla.
I also paraded this negative attitude at one point. In fact, it probably peaked with the addition of raid gear for justice points or whatever in Wrath. It's not fair, the best raiders should have the best stuff. Look the best. Etc.
I got over it pretty quickly. You need to stop treating WoW as a sports car you get to show off to your friends, and just play your own game. Nowadays anyone can get purples, anyone can make themselves look like anything they want (transmog, which I fucking love by the way), and anyone can beat any raid in LFR. But you know what. It doesn't matter. The best players will still have the best gear if they want to work for it, they still have the pride of doing heroics (which are FUCKING ridiculous by the way), and will still be at the top of all of the meters. There's so much to show for being skilled, even if that guy you're standing next to in Org killed the same bosses as you did on LFR easy mode.
The attitude a lot of people have in this thread is simply a personal issue and a poor approach to the game. There seems to be quite a few people here that were in solid TBC guilds. I was too. TBC content will always be the pinnacle of my WoW experience. And there were so many changes that I hated in Wrath aimed at enhancing the casual experience. Why are you giving free gear to these people!? Raid purpz should only be for beating the hard raids! The fact of the matter is, if you're in some boss fight with your sick raid purpz, and Bob Baddie standing next to you has the exact same gear that you do that he bought through many weeks of heroic dungeons and playing less than an hour or two per day... Guess what? You're probably still beating his ass on the meters. You're probably still a better tank or healer than he is. And if you aren't? Then you should be in the harder raids getting the even betterer gear for yourself!
Play your own game, and be as good as you want to be for your own sake. Enjoy things because you feel like doing them, not because it's what you "should be doing". Explore new content and higher difficulty raids because you want to experience the challenge and enjoy the social experience with a group of like-minded people. Stop caring about what other people can do and play the game the way you want.
While I will say I take a slightly elitist view, I liked tbc for more than exclusion. The fact that 1 guild got like 20 straight world firsts was awesome. That is the kinda thing that makes feel like raiding is a true skill. When everyone beat the lich king within 1or2 resets of everyone else, its less epic.
EPT
