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On October 08 2012 17:28 Celial wrote:
The hard part isn't Elegon, it's the trash before. Trust me. You will believe me when you get there. If you thought Ragnaros or Ultraxxion trash sucks - Elegon trash is on a whole new level of suck. More deaths there than on the boss itself haha - granted I brainafk'd through all of it because I cba to deal with it.
Why would you ever think Ragnaros trash was hard, if you werent braindead it was super easy. I had more trouble witht he trash before V/T in BoT that i ever had out of the 2 worms and those flame guys infront of Rag
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United States24569 Posts
On October 08 2012 23:56 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2012 17:28 Celial wrote:
The hard part isn't Elegon, it's the trash before. Trust me. You will believe me when you get there. If you thought Ragnaros or Ultraxxion trash sucks - Elegon trash is on a whole new level of suck. More deaths there than on the boss itself haha - granted I brainafk'd through all of it because I cba to deal with it. Why would you ever think Ragnaros trash was hard, if you werent braindead it was super easy. I had more trouble witht he trash before V/T in BoT that i ever had out of the 2 worms and those flame guys infront of Rag
Damn. Why is this mindset so pervasive when it comes to Wow that being bad at it means you are really dumb? Usually, this is exaggerated with 'braindead' or something similar.
I never noticed it since I never joined WoW discussions before due to having not tried it, but this is sad!
Now I see why I stuck to RTS all these years ._.
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On October 09 2012 01:04 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2012 23:56 arb wrote:On October 08 2012 17:28 Celial wrote:
The hard part isn't Elegon, it's the trash before. Trust me. You will believe me when you get there. If you thought Ragnaros or Ultraxxion trash sucks - Elegon trash is on a whole new level of suck. More deaths there than on the boss itself haha - granted I brainafk'd through all of it because I cba to deal with it. Why would you ever think Ragnaros trash was hard, if you werent braindead it was super easy. I had more trouble witht he trash before V/T in BoT that i ever had out of the 2 worms and those flame guys infront of Rag Damn. Why is this mindset so pervasive when it comes to Wow that being bad at it means you are really dumb? Usually, this is exaggerated with 'braindead' or something similar. I never noticed it since I never joined WoW discussions before due to having not tried it, but this is sad! Now I see why I stuck to RTS all these years ._.
Well it's because honestly, being decent at WoW is very easy. There are a few basic mechanics that someone reasonably intelligent will grasp within hours of playing in a party/raid. And then there are certain boss abilities that again, are very simple. Like "when you see colored stuff on the ground, move away". There are plenty more examples. If you had played WoW, you would know why it's often difficult not to call someone stupid when he's playing bad.
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United States24569 Posts
On October 09 2012 01:34 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2012 01:04 micronesia wrote:On October 08 2012 23:56 arb wrote:On October 08 2012 17:28 Celial wrote:
The hard part isn't Elegon, it's the trash before. Trust me. You will believe me when you get there. If you thought Ragnaros or Ultraxxion trash sucks - Elegon trash is on a whole new level of suck. More deaths there than on the boss itself haha - granted I brainafk'd through all of it because I cba to deal with it. Why would you ever think Ragnaros trash was hard, if you werent braindead it was super easy. I had more trouble witht he trash before V/T in BoT that i ever had out of the 2 worms and those flame guys infront of Rag Damn. Why is this mindset so pervasive when it comes to Wow that being bad at it means you are really dumb? Usually, this is exaggerated with 'braindead' or something similar. I never noticed it since I never joined WoW discussions before due to having not tried it, but this is sad! Now I see why I stuck to RTS all these years ._. Well it's because honestly, being decent at WoW is very easy. There are a few basic mechanics that someone reasonably intelligent will grasp within hours of playing in a party/raid. And then there are certain boss abilities that again, are very simple. Like "when you see colored stuff on the ground, move away". There are plenty more examples. If you had played WoW, you would know why it's often difficult not to call someone stupid when he's playing bad.
From what I've seen as a recent player, the best way to avoid 'being stupid' is to look stuff up online. Some players prefer to just play and not study the game... but that shouldn't mean that they are dumb.
Not knowing how to do is a boss probably means you haven't done it, or not many times. Getting hurt by 'colored stuff on the ground' also is a frustrating example to me since sometimes colored stuff on the ground doesn't hurt you, or is being created by an ally to heal, or stuff like that (or there's so much stuff going on at that moment with 30 players within 5 feet of your toon that you can't really see what's going on, especially considering the visual capabilities of your computer).
No, it's not difficult to not call someone stupid. Wow culture from what I've seen is just immature (not trying to single out wow as the only game where this is the case though lol)
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Obviously WoW is not very hard compared to other games, but I agree that the being dumb part is just getting blown completely out of proportion. Most of the time it is people just
- not paying enough attention ==> a four hour raid on top of probably a 9hour work day might make people careless and chatty. You can obviously choose not ro raid with those people, but that is a luxury mid-tier raids normally cannot afford.
- chain reactions because of a mistake one guy makes ==> this is also so common, 5 people die, because one healer did not pay attention. Or a group of DDs is racing for 1st place in dmgmeter, pull aggro and everything goes to hell.
- it is not as if there has not been very hard trash in raids before. When you have trash that brings the whole raid down to 10% maxhp (like C'thun trash I believe), people can die just because of dumb luck. Or CC gets resisted or whathaveyou.
I still remember what it feels like as a dedicated raider when these things happen. Still, the "everyone is dumb and braindead" answer is just the easy response if you don't want to think any further. Obviously, there is a bunch of really bad players in WoW, but again, it is hard for mid tier raids to avoid those, you just need so much men power. Should be better in dedicated 10men groups I assume.
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On October 09 2012 01:45 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2012 01:34 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:On October 09 2012 01:04 micronesia wrote:On October 08 2012 23:56 arb wrote:On October 08 2012 17:28 Celial wrote:
The hard part isn't Elegon, it's the trash before. Trust me. You will believe me when you get there. If you thought Ragnaros or Ultraxxion trash sucks - Elegon trash is on a whole new level of suck. More deaths there than on the boss itself haha - granted I brainafk'd through all of it because I cba to deal with it. Why would you ever think Ragnaros trash was hard, if you werent braindead it was super easy. I had more trouble witht he trash before V/T in BoT that i ever had out of the 2 worms and those flame guys infront of Rag Damn. Why is this mindset so pervasive when it comes to Wow that being bad at it means you are really dumb? Usually, this is exaggerated with 'braindead' or something similar. I never noticed it since I never joined WoW discussions before due to having not tried it, but this is sad! Now I see why I stuck to RTS all these years ._. Well it's because honestly, being decent at WoW is very easy. There are a few basic mechanics that someone reasonably intelligent will grasp within hours of playing in a party/raid. And then there are certain boss abilities that again, are very simple. Like "when you see colored stuff on the ground, move away". There are plenty more examples. If you had played WoW, you would know why it's often difficult not to call someone stupid when he's playing bad. From what I've seen as a recent player, the best way to avoid 'being stupid' is to look stuff up online. Some players prefer to just play and not study the game... but that shouldn't mean that they are dumb. Not knowing how to do is a boss probably means you haven't done it, or not many times. Getting hurt by 'colored stuff on the ground' also is a frustrating example to me since sometimes colored stuff on the ground doesn't hurt you, or is being created by an ally to heal, or stuff like that (or there's so much stuff going on at that moment with 30 players within 5 feet of your toon that you can't really see what's going on, especially considering the visual capabilities of your computer). No, it's not difficult to not call someone stupid. Wow culture from what I've seen is just immature (not trying to single out wow as the only game where this is the case though lol)
also, having 40 people doing the right thing 20 times in a row is a bit harder to do.
To that comes that in early ragnaros era, people generally didnt have any tactics from a website, but found out themselves.
So yes, people could fail and still not be idiots because of it. As long as someone learns from failure, i dont see anything wrong with them.
Its people who think they are completely awesome, but refuse to see their mistakes, who are the real problem :p
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The sad part about WoW, is that I would like to play it. But every time I check the fact I come to the conclusion, that I hate the game and would quit after 10mins.
WOW killed the whole genre with their terrible Casualysm. The game lost all the depth and classes lost their uniqueness. Every tank/healer and dps is basically now the same. I think nearly every class can AoE, CC and all that stuff.
TBC was just awesome. Every healer had their role (Pally=Burst/Tankheal, Druid=AoE/Grp, Priest=Everything/Shield/Utility) same with Tanks (Pally=AE-Tanking, Druid=Meleebosses, Warrior=MT)... now your class really doesn't matter - every class has the same shit.
Even the Buffs got replaced. MotW and Kings are the same thing now, seriously?
I don't understand what the thought was behind this. Its not like TBC was a terrible failure. Everyone had alot of fun. Its not like casuals were crying that they don't understood the Classes or something -_-
I'm so sad. I still hope there will be a new Vanilla/TBC-like MMO in the future, but I know its not going to happen. -_-
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On October 09 2012 02:46 Sophia wrote:
The sad part about WoW, is that I would like to play it. But every time I check the fact I come to the conclusion, that I hate the game and would quit after 10mins.
WOW killed the whole genre with their terrible Casualysm. The game lost all the depth and classes lost their uniqueness. Every tank/healer and dps is basically now the same. I think nearly every class can AoE, CC and all that stuff.
TBC was just awesome. Every healer had their role (Pally=Burst/Tankheal, Druid=AoE/Grp, Priest=Everything/Shield/Utility) same with Tanks (Pally=AE-Tanking, Druid=Meleebosses, Warrior=MT)... now your class really doesn't matter - every class has the same shit.
Even the Buffs got replaced. MotW and Kings are the same thing now, seriously?
I don't understand what the thought was behind this. Its not like TBC was a terrible failure. Everyone had alot of fun. Its not like casuals were crying that they don't understood the Classes or something -_-
I'm so sad. I still hope there will be a new Vanilla/TBC-like MMO in the future, but I know its not going to happen. -_-
I may be a bit out of it at this point, but I did play Cataclysm for a couple of months when it was released and then again after the Firelands patch. In any case, if you asked me about Cata before I actually played it and was just checking out the info online (about class changes and such) I'd probably list the same things that you just did. I was sure that it had all been mixed together into an unrecognizable sludge and that I'd be bored after 10 mins of playing it.
It turned out not to be the case at all. Druids were still the go-to raid healers, Paladins were still the go-to MT healers, Priests were still a confused mess ( ), etc. Granted, the differences in performance in the various areas for healers may have been relatively smaller than they were in TBC, but their "flavor" was still more than obvious. And the way I see it, that's a win-win - a paladin still kept his MT healer identity but at the same time, he doesn't have to feel useless in an AoE phase. I'm not sure how things have changed again in Pandaria, I don't think they have all that much tbh. So if what you listed are your only problems with the game, I suggest you give it a try and you may very well enjoy it again  I did, for a time, anyway.
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On October 09 2012 01:45 micronesia wrote:
No, it's not difficult to not call someone stupid. Wow culture from what I've seen is just immature (not trying to single out wow as the only game where this is the case though lol)
You're right, to some extent, although I'd say many of the better players are really nice, thoughtful, helpful people. There's a lot more mutual cooperation in WoW then there is in an RTS game community, for example, because it helps everyone in a social group to help each person learn.
I would argue that I've seen an awful lot of the same kind of logic in the Starcraft 2 community. ("Anyone who can't make Master league in their first 200 games is brain dead.") So, I'm not sure I really see the difference there.
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United States24569 Posts
On October 09 2012 03:06 Lysenko wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2012 01:45 micronesia wrote:
No, it's not difficult to not call someone stupid. Wow culture from what I've seen is just immature (not trying to single out wow as the only game where this is the case though lol) You're right, to some extent, although I'd say many of the better players are really nice, thoughtful, helpful people. There's a lot more mutual cooperation in WoW then there is in an RTS game community, for example, because it helps everyone in a social group to help each person learn. I would argue that I've seen an awful lot of the same kind of logic in the Starcraft 2 community. ("Anyone who can't make Master league in their first 200 games is brain dead.") So, I'm not sure I really see the difference there.
Yea I can't argue with that at all to be honest.
And I've met some very nice/helpful people in wow. I haven't exactly done a statistical analysis.
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On October 09 2012 02:46 Sophia wrote:
WOW killed the whole genre with their terrible Casualysm. The game lost all the depth and classes lost their uniqueness. Every tank/healer and dps is basically now the same. I think nearly every class can AoE, CC and all that stuff.
I've never understood this particular complaint. It might make sense if you were changing classes all the time, but in WoW you make a character with one particular class and then invest hundreds of hours in it. The argument that increasing the variety of options your character has makes the game worse just doesn't make any sense.
The classes have been made somewhat more similar in terms of their basic capabilities, but they don't feel anything like each other to play, and when as a player you pick ONE class and play that for all that time, that's the important part.
Edit: After raiding for a few years and taking a very long break, I've come back to MoP to level up and found that there are a TON of changes to catch up on. Besides which, they've redesigned most of the classes' abilities to make the optimal ability rotations much more complex, dependent on random procs and an understanding of how abilities interact. This makes the actual play experience (plus learning how it all works) a lot deeper than it used to be, not shallower.
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On October 08 2012 23:56 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2012 17:28 Celial wrote:
The hard part isn't Elegon, it's the trash before. Trust me. You will believe me when you get there. If you thought Ragnaros or Ultraxxion trash sucks - Elegon trash is on a whole new level of suck. More deaths there than on the boss itself haha - granted I brainafk'd through all of it because I cba to deal with it. Why would you ever think Ragnaros trash was hard, if you werent braindead it was super easy. I had more trouble witht he trash before V/T in BoT that i ever had out of the 2 worms and those flame guys infront of Rag
Who said anything about hard. I said it SUCKED. It was BAD. Not that it was hard. Learn to read, if you're not too busy jacking off how good you think you are at killing internet dragons.
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Got my Cloud Serpent today. By far one of the most detailed models for a mount that Blizzard has put into this game so far. The fact that I got to raise my serpent from a hatchling up to adulthood through daily quests was a bit of fun too.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/SDANB.jpg)
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How do you get that? Is there easier ways to get dragons? I want one
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On October 09 2012 05:23 Arnstein wrote:How do you get that? Is there easier ways to get dragons? I want one
There's a set of dailies you have to do with the Order of the Cloud Serpent. You can't ride any of the cloud serpent mounts no matter where you get them from until you've hit exalted with Order of the Cloud Serpent.
It didn't take all that long, I hit 90 maybe 3 days after I hit 90 and I got exalted today, I did all of the secondary professions dailies and I only had to find one onyx egg to finish the deal.
All in all, one of the lesser painful grinds I've had to do for a cool mount. To start the dailies, all you have to do is find the Cloud Serpent faction at the Arboretium in Jade Forest once you hit level 90.
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On October 09 2012 03:20 Celial wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2012 23:56 arb wrote:On October 08 2012 17:28 Celial wrote:
The hard part isn't Elegon, it's the trash before. Trust me. You will believe me when you get there. If you thought Ragnaros or Ultraxxion trash sucks - Elegon trash is on a whole new level of suck. More deaths there than on the boss itself haha - granted I brainafk'd through all of it because I cba to deal with it. Why would you ever think Ragnaros trash was hard, if you werent braindead it was super easy. I had more trouble witht he trash before V/T in BoT that i ever had out of the 2 worms and those flame guys infront of Rag Who said anything about hard. I said it SUCKED. It was BAD. Not that it was hard. Learn to read, if you're not too busy jacking off how good you think you are at killing internet dragons.
"The hard part isnt Elegon its the trash before" then you directly compare it to the Ragnaros or Ultra trash.
Sure looks like you were saying it was hard to me. Should stop being so mad about stuff on the internet, bro.
On October 09 2012 05:23 Arnstein wrote:How do you get that? Is there easier ways to get dragons? I want one
You can get some shitty proto drakes from the gift bag if you tank or heal(if thats still in the game of course) can also get a dragon from a mount, or a really bad dragon for sarth10+3 drakes(which should be easily doable with another person or two now) can also get the red ones from wyrmrest or whatever and the albino for 25 mounts i think
Good ones are like, the Ulduar achievements(ironbound my personal fave/rusted proto drake)/Sarth25+3drakes(for the twilight drake) and the icc10/25 achievements(frost wyrms)
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On October 09 2012 03:10 Lysenko wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2012 02:46 Sophia wrote:
WOW killed the whole genre with their terrible Casualysm. The game lost all the depth and classes lost their uniqueness. Every tank/healer and dps is basically now the same. I think nearly every class can AoE, CC and all that stuff. I've never understood this particular complaint. It might make sense if you were changing classes all the time, but in WoW you make a character with one particular class and then invest hundreds of hours in it. The argument that increasing the variety of options your character has makes the game worse just doesn't make any sense. The classes have been made somewhat more similar in terms of their basic capabilities, but they don't feel anything like each other to play, and when as a player you pick ONE class and play that for all that time, that's the important part. Edit: After raiding for a few years and taking a very long break, I've come back to MoP to level up and found that there are a TON of changes to catch up on. Besides which, they've redesigned most of the classes' abilities to make the optimal ability rotations much more complex, dependent on random procs and an understanding of how abilities interact. This makes the actual play experience (plus learning how it all works) a lot deeper than it used to be, not shallower.
I actually have to disagree about the homogenization. This would have made sense in TBC- the progression curve took so long and characters demanded so much time to gear, a working/schooling person like myself just couldn't have the time to grind/gear multiple characters. But with stuff like heirlooms, xp boosts, dungeon finder and streamlined questing, it's easier than ever now to have more than one max level character. If I didnt like raid healing in WotLK, I wouldn't roll a druid. And if I wanted to tank heal, it wouldn't take long at all to grind up a pally.
I mained a resto druid and a resto shaman in WotLK and loved them because they played entirely different; my druid was proactive and mathmatical with HoT blanketing, while my shaman was reactive. (Though it eventually became nothing but chain heal spam )
Granted, certain classes are more effected than others. I hated what happened to resto druids in Cata. They decided every healer needed a 1/2/3 punch and while that model fit with pallys and priests, it just wasnt designed for druids at all.
That being said, I do feel like the niches are better now in MoP. I still enjoy playing all my different healers, the talents in particular shake things up a bit. The big offender in MoP however, is now tanks imo. I love the active mitigation model and think its great that tanks are more responsible for their mitigation (<3 my DK) but my prot war and guardian druid play almost exactly the same now. The abilities mirror each other too much for my taste. Shield Slam/Mangle, Frenzied Regen/Shield Barrier, Savage Defense/Shield Block, Heroic Strike/Maul, Thunderclap/Thrash.
For the record though, I'm much happier with how classes play now in MoP than I was in Cata, with the above guardian/prot thing being the only exception for now.
I guess my very long winded point is: it's easier than ever now to have multiple max level characters, and its quicker then ever to gear them up. For that reason, I don't think "we need to make everyone able to do everything so no one's char gets benched" is not a very good excuse anymore. Differences make the game fun! :D Though as I said I'm happy with how MoP is atm.
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On October 09 2012 10:01 erin[go]bragh wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2012 03:10 Lysenko wrote:On October 09 2012 02:46 Sophia wrote:
WOW killed the whole genre with their terrible Casualysm. The game lost all the depth and classes lost their uniqueness. Every tank/healer and dps is basically now the same. I think nearly every class can AoE, CC and all that stuff. I've never understood this particular complaint. It might make sense if you were changing classes all the time, but in WoW you make a character with one particular class and then invest hundreds of hours in it. The argument that increasing the variety of options your character has makes the game worse just doesn't make any sense. The classes have been made somewhat more similar in terms of their basic capabilities, but they don't feel anything like each other to play, and when as a player you pick ONE class and play that for all that time, that's the important part. Edit: After raiding for a few years and taking a very long break, I've come back to MoP to level up and found that there are a TON of changes to catch up on. Besides which, they've redesigned most of the classes' abilities to make the optimal ability rotations much more complex, dependent on random procs and an understanding of how abilities interact. This makes the actual play experience (plus learning how it all works) a lot deeper than it used to be, not shallower. I actually have to disagree about the homogenization. This would have made sense in TBC- the progression curve took so long and characters demanded so much time to gear, a working/schooling person like myself just couldn't have the time to grind/gear multiple characters. But with stuff like heirlooms, xp boosts, dungeon finder and streamlined questing, it's easier than ever now to have more than one max level character. If I didnt like raid healing in WotLK, I wouldn't roll a druid. And if I wanted to tank heal, it wouldn't take long at all to grind up a pally. I mained a resto druid and a resto shaman in WotLK and loved them because they played entirely different; my druid was proactive and mathmatical with HoT blanketing, while my shaman was reactive. (Though it eventually became nothing but chain heal spam ) Granted, certain classes are more effected than others. I hated what happened to resto druids in Cata. They decided every healer needed a 1/2/3 punch and while that model fit with pallys and priests, it just wasnt designed for druids at all. That being said, I do feel like the niches are better now in MoP. I still enjoy playing all my different healers, the talents in particular shake things up a bit. The big offender in MoP however, is now tanks imo. I love the active mitigation model and think its great that tanks are more responsible for their mitigation (<3 my DK) but my prot war and guardian druid play almost exactly the same now. The abilities mirror each other too much for my taste. Shield Slam/Mangle, Frenzied Regen/Shield Barrier, Savage Defense/Shield Block, Heroic Strike/Maul, Thunderclap/Thrash. For the record though, I'm much happier with how classes play now in MoP than I was in Cata, with the above guardian/prot thing being the only exception for now. I guess my very long winded point is: it's easier than ever now to have multiple max level characters, and its quicker then ever to gear them up. For that reason, I don't think "we need to make everyone able to do everything so no one's char gets benched" is not a very good excuse anymore. Differences make the game fun! :D Though as I said I'm happy with how MoP is atm.
Wait, did Warriors get more cool downs than JUST Last stand(which wasnt that good in the first place) and Shield Wall?
Is shield block an actual cooldown now?(like a real tanking cooldown)
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Man this expansion has been fun. I don't know if it's because I had low expectations, or because I have no time to play any more so the novelty that I can play makes everything better, but running around exploring things, exploding things to pieces has been an absolute blast, and healing the instances has been awesome. I've done the 4 available (currently 87) and the boss design is great, I love how they give boss abilities to trash so you don't shit yourself the first time you encounter something.
Anyways. Yay pandas.
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On October 09 2012 15:45 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2012 10:01 erin[go]bragh wrote:On October 09 2012 03:10 Lysenko wrote:On October 09 2012 02:46 Sophia wrote:
WOW killed the whole genre with their terrible Casualysm. The game lost all the depth and classes lost their uniqueness. Every tank/healer and dps is basically now the same. I think nearly every class can AoE, CC and all that stuff. I've never understood this particular complaint. It might make sense if you were changing classes all the time, but in WoW you make a character with one particular class and then invest hundreds of hours in it. The argument that increasing the variety of options your character has makes the game worse just doesn't make any sense. The classes have been made somewhat more similar in terms of their basic capabilities, but they don't feel anything like each other to play, and when as a player you pick ONE class and play that for all that time, that's the important part. Edit: After raiding for a few years and taking a very long break, I've come back to MoP to level up and found that there are a TON of changes to catch up on. Besides which, they've redesigned most of the classes' abilities to make the optimal ability rotations much more complex, dependent on random procs and an understanding of how abilities interact. This makes the actual play experience (plus learning how it all works) a lot deeper than it used to be, not shallower. I actually have to disagree about the homogenization. This would have made sense in TBC- the progression curve took so long and characters demanded so much time to gear, a working/schooling person like myself just couldn't have the time to grind/gear multiple characters. But with stuff like heirlooms, xp boosts, dungeon finder and streamlined questing, it's easier than ever now to have more than one max level character. If I didnt like raid healing in WotLK, I wouldn't roll a druid. And if I wanted to tank heal, it wouldn't take long at all to grind up a pally. I mained a resto druid and a resto shaman in WotLK and loved them because they played entirely different; my druid was proactive and mathmatical with HoT blanketing, while my shaman was reactive. (Though it eventually became nothing but chain heal spam ) Granted, certain classes are more effected than others. I hated what happened to resto druids in Cata. They decided every healer needed a 1/2/3 punch and while that model fit with pallys and priests, it just wasnt designed for druids at all. That being said, I do feel like the niches are better now in MoP. I still enjoy playing all my different healers, the talents in particular shake things up a bit. The big offender in MoP however, is now tanks imo. I love the active mitigation model and think its great that tanks are more responsible for their mitigation (<3 my DK) but my prot war and guardian druid play almost exactly the same now. The abilities mirror each other too much for my taste. Shield Slam/Mangle, Frenzied Regen/Shield Barrier, Savage Defense/Shield Block, Heroic Strike/Maul, Thunderclap/Thrash. For the record though, I'm much happier with how classes play now in MoP than I was in Cata, with the above guardian/prot thing being the only exception for now. I guess my very long winded point is: it's easier than ever now to have multiple max level characters, and its quicker then ever to gear them up. For that reason, I don't think "we need to make everyone able to do everything so no one's char gets benched" is not a very good excuse anymore. Differences make the game fun! :D Though as I said I'm happy with how MoP is atm. Wait, did Warriors get more cool downs than JUST Last stand(which wasnt that good in the first place) and Shield Wall? Is shield block an actual cooldown now?(like a real tanking cooldown)
They implemented a system called active mitigation. That means that every tank has to spend resources on skills to mitgate damage. Warriors e.g. have Shield Block (blocks every attack for X seconds) and Shield Barrier (Absorbs X damage), both costing 60 rage and rage being generated by using skills like Shield Slam (you dont get Rage for being hit anymore, atleast not in defensive stance).
Other than those Tanks still have cooldowns like Shield Wall, Last Stand etc. Warriors also got something that lets you parry any attack for X seconds ( replaced Retaliation) and got 3 Banners with different effects (dps, defensive, and something else) and Rallying Cry which is a Raid Last Stand (added in Cata dunno if you knew about this one already).
So yes Warriors and all other Tanks have more than 2 defensive cooldowns now, and they actually have to make a decision on how to spend their recources, more DPS or more Mitigation.
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EPT
