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Counter-Strike: Global Offensive - Page 153

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Maedi
Profile Joined August 2009
United States477 Posts
August 23 2012 02:27 GMT
#3041
Addressing complaints of sounds: Yeah, it sucks, but honestly I don't have a problem with it anymore. I think after like 200 hours I'm used to it.
Although to be fair, my team-mates complain they couldn't tell where he was coming from, and it clear as day to me. I think it's a mixture of my being used to it, and my complete dropping of 1.6 and source so my mind does't get confused.

Looks like a cool post, Wolfwood, I'll read it later ^^ just got off work and gotta practice for match in 40 minutes!
Infernal_dream
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2359 Posts
August 23 2012 02:31 GMT
#3042
I can't really tell distance with sounds but I can easily tell the general direction/which hallway or entrance they are at.
a176
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada6688 Posts
August 23 2012 02:45 GMT
#3043
On August 23 2012 11:25 FinestHour wrote:
does anyone know if the crash problems with amd cpu are getting fixed/ look at? still havent been able to play once. would appreciate it if anyone has found a fix


you need to update your motherboard bios to latest version
starleague forever
zachMEISTER
Profile Joined December 2010
United States625 Posts
August 23 2012 03:18 GMT
#3044
On August 23 2012 11:23 xgtx wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

On August 23 2012 09:43 wo1fwood wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2012 07:41 Hoon wrote:
On August 23 2012 07:37 xgtx wrote:
On August 23 2012 05:11 stratmatt wrote:
On August 23 2012 04:49 xgtx wrote:
are there any new news about the sound? its impossible to localize the footsteps.



Thats not really true. Directional sound works great, just not distance.


This can't be true. I and many other have the same "problem". I have an expensive soundcard and 5.1 sourround sound system, also expensive headset. And it's impossible in this game to localize where the footsteps come from. In every other game this works really well and easy, but in cs:go, impossible. It's like monosound.

It's not about how much you pay, it's how well you configure the audio settings.

I'm basically going to repost what I did on the cs:go forum, basically you have to configure sound to your setup to make it good (optimal setting), which makes directional sound ok, however in order for it to be great a number of tweaks are still needed. Someone mentioned that go uses sound that doesn't penetrate walls, but I don't agree with the statement based on everything that I've heard in game and how I know wave propagation behaves in the real world (sound in go does not behave that way).


CS:GO Sound: Propagation Tweaks Needed

So I've been playing the beta for a couple of weeks now and being somewhat less experienced of a CS player I shouldn't be commenting on balance, however there is one area that I have a lot of experience in that I feel has somewhat missed the mark in CS:GO, sound.

Sound pre-patch around the 10th or so was pretty awful and discerning a lot of locations or enemies, bomb locales, etc was very difficult. That being said with the recent updates sound has been improved quite substantially. I now can hear at least mostly where enemies are or track their location using audio cues, however I was still left with the feeling that a lot more could be done to improve the audio in the game and what I consider one of the larger, though more subtle problems left in CS:GO.


Sound Wave Propagation

Sound wave propagation behaves rather oddly in this game. The main offender is the nature of how each sound propagates when interacting with the environment. For this see Example 1:

[image loading]

In this example you have a T and a CT on Office, and you are trying to discern the location of each other, however its somewhat difficult to do so due to how sound propagates on the map (happens on all maps). The T is moving from side to side in order to check where the CT is going to enter and the CT is trying to figure out where the safest entrance is. Now say the T moves to location B. What happens aurally is that the CT cannot tell through audio cues whether the T has moved from the hostage room to the B location. In actuality the CT hears the T most likely at C and you can see why that could be problematic should he choose to enter through B. Overall what the CT hears is a linear movement that is propagated longitudinally from the T center point outward (see line c1a).

Now the above situation is how sound propagates, but in a very simplified fashion. What we currently do not have is wall or object material, density, or reflectivity affecting how the sound emanates from one place and is received at another. In terms of dB, due to the fact that sound traveling through the B location occupies more ambient space, is longer, and less direct than the A path, if the T moved to the B location from his starting point, to the CT should hear a subtle drop in dB and a more diffuse or muffled footstep cue. For the CT this small change immediately tells him that the T is not moving towards the A hall opening and may in fact be moving towards B or B1, or at the very least is near the far side wall in the hostage room. Now we can pick out movement much better.

Example Two:
[image loading]

The CT has the hostages, and T is trying to figure out where CT is trying to exit. Now because the distance from the CT to the T going down the back corridor is much longer than through the main entrance to the T spawn as well as having a substantially thicker wall (A) between them, footstep indications should be lessened overall if the CT were to move in that direction than if here were to come out of the T spawn main. This situation is slightly different from the last however as there is a large wall between the two players and the wave propagation has a significant travel distance to get from the CT to the T. What makes this different is that the overall audio cues should be greatly diminished, and much more polarized in how the sound gets to the T. For instance, should the CT decide to move down the back corridor, the T should begin to get cues almost exclusively from that direction due to wave travel distance and map/wall obstruction (assuming they are facing each other, the T would only be getting cues from his L channel, or very very minimally from his right).

What we currently get in both these situations however is a much more linear indicator of where movement is occurring, but determining distance, direction, and precise movements is extremely difficult due to the fact that the environment has very little impact on positional indicators. Because of that we hear closer to what those linear lines indicate.


Overall sound has been improved, but waves still do not propagate on maps in a natural fashion. They radiate longitudinally from the origin point (see circles) where only a rudimentary distance and position can be discerned. Environmental cues/considerations are almost nonexistent and is perhaps one of the most important ways to precisely determine movement, distance, and positional locations.



aha... and what kind of settings you are talking the whole time? you can only adjust headset,2.1, 4.1 and 5.1.... why do I always have to repeat myself....


Mess with these settings, and see how it affects the sounds you're hearing:

////////////////
//Sound

volume 0.5 // min. 0 max. 1 - Overall Game volume.
snd_musicvolume 0 // min. 0 max. 1 - Music Volume.
voice_scale 0.5 // min. 0 max. 1 - Voice of incoming Voice.
snd_mixahead 0.05 // def. 0.1 - Soundbuffer size/length.

windows_speaker_config 1 // def. -1=Automatic 1=Headset 4=StereoSpeakers 3=4Speakers 6=5.1 Surround

//TESTING:
snd_headphone_pan_exponent 1 // def. 1
snd_headphone_pan_radial_weight 1 // def. 1
snd_stereo_speaker_pan_exponent 1.5 // def. 1.5
snd_stereo_speaker_pan_radial_weight 0 // def. 0
snd_surround_speaker_pan_exponent 1.5 // def. 1.5
snd_surround_speaker_pan_radial_weight 0 // def. 0
psillypsybic!
Shelke14
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada6655 Posts
August 23 2012 03:43 GMT
#3045
Any west coast servers people play on?
tofucake
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Hyrule19268 Posts
August 23 2012 03:44 GMT
#3046
once again the Valve servers are all full and I'm being stuck on Luxemburg and SEA servers ....
Liquipediaasante sana squash banana
Shelke14
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada6655 Posts
August 23 2012 03:49 GMT
#3047
anyone wanna scrim? or duo in this?
XenOmega
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada2822 Posts
August 23 2012 03:57 GMT
#3048
After playing a little bit (I was super hyped), well I am a little bit bored... I don't know how to put it. I've played CS1.6 ALOT. Hundreds of hours. I scrimmed, I tried to be competitive...

so obviously, when I heard GO was coming out, I was super excited. I played a little bit... the magic isn't there anymore. I know its pretty much the same game, but I don't feel it anymore...

Guess I'm too old.
Kojak21
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada1104 Posts
August 23 2012 03:57 GMT
#3049
im playing only deagle to get good with it :D
¯\_(☺)_/¯
cHaNg-sTa
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States1058 Posts
August 23 2012 04:02 GMT
#3050
Thank God I'm not crazy, I thought my ears were going crazy because I couldn't tell crap with sound. I felt like people were constantly walking around me when there was no one in sight. Really needs to be corrected soon because this really screws with the whole game and not rewarding those who listen for steps.

I feel like the m3 (Nova in CS:GO) feels even more random compared to Source (for the worse). Sucks cuz I love the shotty from Source and I feel it's just much weaker in this game
Jaedong <3 HOOK'EM HORNS!
RagequitBM
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada2270 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-23 04:20:51
August 23 2012 04:20 GMT
#3051
Was the "Your Classic Competitive Elo:" always there in the top right of the scoreboard? If not, it looks like they might finally be gearing up to make it actual ranked matchmaking.

I don't mind the military ranks, but I hope they add a number to go with the rank.
Twitch.tv/Ragequitbm for all the fans
a176
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada6688 Posts
August 23 2012 04:25 GMT
#3052
mp9 so good
starleague forever
xgtx
Profile Joined February 2009
227 Posts
August 23 2012 04:27 GMT
#3053
On August 23 2012 12:18 zachMEISTER wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2012 11:23 xgtx wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

On August 23 2012 09:43 wo1fwood wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2012 07:41 Hoon wrote:
On August 23 2012 07:37 xgtx wrote:
On August 23 2012 05:11 stratmatt wrote:
On August 23 2012 04:49 xgtx wrote:
are there any new news about the sound? its impossible to localize the footsteps.



Thats not really true. Directional sound works great, just not distance.


This can't be true. I and many other have the same "problem". I have an expensive soundcard and 5.1 sourround sound system, also expensive headset. And it's impossible in this game to localize where the footsteps come from. In every other game this works really well and easy, but in cs:go, impossible. It's like monosound.

It's not about how much you pay, it's how well you configure the audio settings.

I'm basically going to repost what I did on the cs:go forum, basically you have to configure sound to your setup to make it good (optimal setting), which makes directional sound ok, however in order for it to be great a number of tweaks are still needed. Someone mentioned that go uses sound that doesn't penetrate walls, but I don't agree with the statement based on everything that I've heard in game and how I know wave propagation behaves in the real world (sound in go does not behave that way).


CS:GO Sound: Propagation Tweaks Needed

So I've been playing the beta for a couple of weeks now and being somewhat less experienced of a CS player I shouldn't be commenting on balance, however there is one area that I have a lot of experience in that I feel has somewhat missed the mark in CS:GO, sound.

Sound pre-patch around the 10th or so was pretty awful and discerning a lot of locations or enemies, bomb locales, etc was very difficult. That being said with the recent updates sound has been improved quite substantially. I now can hear at least mostly where enemies are or track their location using audio cues, however I was still left with the feeling that a lot more could be done to improve the audio in the game and what I consider one of the larger, though more subtle problems left in CS:GO.


Sound Wave Propagation

Sound wave propagation behaves rather oddly in this game. The main offender is the nature of how each sound propagates when interacting with the environment. For this see Example 1:

[image loading]

In this example you have a T and a CT on Office, and you are trying to discern the location of each other, however its somewhat difficult to do so due to how sound propagates on the map (happens on all maps). The T is moving from side to side in order to check where the CT is going to enter and the CT is trying to figure out where the safest entrance is. Now say the T moves to location B. What happens aurally is that the CT cannot tell through audio cues whether the T has moved from the hostage room to the B location. In actuality the CT hears the T most likely at C and you can see why that could be problematic should he choose to enter through B. Overall what the CT hears is a linear movement that is propagated longitudinally from the T center point outward (see line c1a).

Now the above situation is how sound propagates, but in a very simplified fashion. What we currently do not have is wall or object material, density, or reflectivity affecting how the sound emanates from one place and is received at another. In terms of dB, due to the fact that sound traveling through the B location occupies more ambient space, is longer, and less direct than the A path, if the T moved to the B location from his starting point, to the CT should hear a subtle drop in dB and a more diffuse or muffled footstep cue. For the CT this small change immediately tells him that the T is not moving towards the A hall opening and may in fact be moving towards B or B1, or at the very least is near the far side wall in the hostage room. Now we can pick out movement much better.

Example Two:
[image loading]

The CT has the hostages, and T is trying to figure out where CT is trying to exit. Now because the distance from the CT to the T going down the back corridor is much longer than through the main entrance to the T spawn as well as having a substantially thicker wall (A) between them, footstep indications should be lessened overall if the CT were to move in that direction than if here were to come out of the T spawn main. This situation is slightly different from the last however as there is a large wall between the two players and the wave propagation has a significant travel distance to get from the CT to the T. What makes this different is that the overall audio cues should be greatly diminished, and much more polarized in how the sound gets to the T. For instance, should the CT decide to move down the back corridor, the T should begin to get cues almost exclusively from that direction due to wave travel distance and map/wall obstruction (assuming they are facing each other, the T would only be getting cues from his L channel, or very very minimally from his right).

What we currently get in both these situations however is a much more linear indicator of where movement is occurring, but determining distance, direction, and precise movements is extremely difficult due to the fact that the environment has very little impact on positional indicators. Because of that we hear closer to what those linear lines indicate.


Overall sound has been improved, but waves still do not propagate on maps in a natural fashion. They radiate longitudinally from the origin point (see circles) where only a rudimentary distance and position can be discerned. Environmental cues/considerations are almost nonexistent and is perhaps one of the most important ways to precisely determine movement, distance, and positional locations.



aha... and what kind of settings you are talking the whole time? you can only adjust headset,2.1, 4.1 and 5.1.... why do I always have to repeat myself....


Mess with these settings, and see how it affects the sounds you're hearing:

////////////////
//Sound

volume 0.5 // min. 0 max. 1 - Overall Game volume.
snd_musicvolume 0 // min. 0 max. 1 - Music Volume.
voice_scale 0.5 // min. 0 max. 1 - Voice of incoming Voice.
snd_mixahead 0.05 // def. 0.1 - Soundbuffer size/length.

windows_speaker_config 1 // def. -1=Automatic 1=Headset 4=StereoSpeakers 3=4Speakers 6=5.1 Surround

//TESTING:
snd_headphone_pan_exponent 1 // def. 1
snd_headphone_pan_radial_weight 1 // def. 1
snd_stereo_speaker_pan_exponent 1.5 // def. 1.5
snd_stereo_speaker_pan_radial_weight 0 // def. 0
snd_surround_speaker_pan_exponent 1.5 // def. 1.5
snd_surround_speaker_pan_radial_weight 0 // def. 0


useless, every cvar is sv_cheats 1 .............
Maedi
Profile Joined August 2009
United States477 Posts
August 23 2012 04:28 GMT
#3054
On August 23 2012 13:02 cHaNg-sTa wrote:
Thank God I'm not crazy, I thought my ears were going crazy because I couldn't tell crap with sound. I felt like people were constantly walking around me when there was no one in sight. Really needs to be corrected soon because this really screws with the whole game and not rewarding those who listen for steps.

I feel like the m3 (Nova in CS:GO) feels even more random compared to Source (for the worse). Sucks cuz I love the shotty from Source and I feel it's just much weaker in this game



Uhhh... lol. Shotguns are retarded in this game. Mag7 is broken. Sawed off is decent too if you're *actually* good with shotguns. Mag is just point and click, headshots at mid range dropping people.

Sidenote: We won our match, yay us.
Shelke14
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada6655 Posts
August 23 2012 04:54 GMT
#3055
What are the ranks in this game? Im currently single bar silver..
AnachronisticAnarchy
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States2957 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-23 05:12:31
August 23 2012 05:12 GMT
#3056
On August 23 2012 13:28 Maedi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2012 13:02 cHaNg-sTa wrote:
Thank God I'm not crazy, I thought my ears were going crazy because I couldn't tell crap with sound. I felt like people were constantly walking around me when there was no one in sight. Really needs to be corrected soon because this really screws with the whole game and not rewarding those who listen for steps.

I feel like the m3 (Nova in CS:GO) feels even more random compared to Source (for the worse). Sucks cuz I love the shotty from Source and I feel it's just much weaker in this game



Uhhh... lol. Shotguns are retarded in this game. Mag7 is broken. Sawed off is decent too if you're *actually* good with shotguns. Mag is just point and click, headshots at mid range dropping people.

Sidenote: We won our match, yay us.


What about the sawed off requires skill? Not sarcastic here, I'm honestly curious. Usually what I do is go run down routes filled with small spaces and kill anyone who shows their face with a 1-hit KO body shot. That usually does the trick. The spread on that thing is pretty big and so is the damage falloff, as should be the case, but that leaves the question, where does the skill go?

By the way, complete noob here, so if this post made me look retarded, it's probably because I am.
"How are you?" "I am fine, because it is not normal to scream in pain."
Infernal_dream
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2359 Posts
August 23 2012 05:13 GMT
#3057
On August 23 2012 14:12 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2012 13:28 Maedi wrote:
On August 23 2012 13:02 cHaNg-sTa wrote:
Thank God I'm not crazy, I thought my ears were going crazy because I couldn't tell crap with sound. I felt like people were constantly walking around me when there was no one in sight. Really needs to be corrected soon because this really screws with the whole game and not rewarding those who listen for steps.

I feel like the m3 (Nova in CS:GO) feels even more random compared to Source (for the worse). Sucks cuz I love the shotty from Source and I feel it's just much weaker in this game



Uhhh... lol. Shotguns are retarded in this game. Mag7 is broken. Sawed off is decent too if you're *actually* good with shotguns. Mag is just point and click, headshots at mid range dropping people.

Sidenote: We won our match, yay us.


What about the sawed off requires skill? Not sarcastic here, I'm honestly curious. Usually what I do is go run down routes filled with small spaces and kill anyone who shows their face with a 1-hit KO body shot. That usually does the trick. The spread on that thing is pretty big and so is the damage falloff, as should be the case, but that leaves the question, where does the skill go?

By the way, complete noob here, so if this post made me look retarded, it's probably because I am.


Nope you're pretty much right when it comes to the sawed off. Sit in a doorway or extremely small corridor and blast the fuck out of anyone that walks by. I just don't use shotties a lot.
0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
August 23 2012 05:26 GMT
#3058
To people still complaining about sound, I don't get it. I have no problems. Also, sound shouldn't be perfectly clear. People still don't know exactly what happened during the JFK assassination, remember? Acoustics are not always intuitive in real life, but in GO I have no problem with them.
Maedi
Profile Joined August 2009
United States477 Posts
August 23 2012 05:26 GMT
#3059
On August 23 2012 14:12 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2012 13:28 Maedi wrote:
On August 23 2012 13:02 cHaNg-sTa wrote:
Thank God I'm not crazy, I thought my ears were going crazy because I couldn't tell crap with sound. I felt like people were constantly walking around me when there was no one in sight. Really needs to be corrected soon because this really screws with the whole game and not rewarding those who listen for steps.

I feel like the m3 (Nova in CS:GO) feels even more random compared to Source (for the worse). Sucks cuz I love the shotty from Source and I feel it's just much weaker in this game



Uhhh... lol. Shotguns are retarded in this game. Mag7 is broken. Sawed off is decent too if you're *actually* good with shotguns. Mag is just point and click, headshots at mid range dropping people.

Sidenote: We won our match, yay us.


What about the sawed off requires skill? Not sarcastic here, I'm honestly curious. Usually what I do is go run down routes filled with small spaces and kill anyone who shows their face with a 1-hit KO body shot. That usually does the trick. The spread on that thing is pretty big and so is the damage falloff, as should be the case, but that leaves the question, where does the skill go?

By the way, complete noob here, so if this post made me look retarded, it's probably because I am.



I was moreso referring that you actaully have to "aim" it. Nothing particularly "skillful" about shotguns, but I meant moreso in the grand comparison to the beast known as the mag7.
AnomalySC2
Profile Joined August 2012
United States2073 Posts
August 23 2012 05:35 GMT
#3060
On August 23 2012 14:26 0neder wrote:
To people still complaining about sound, I don't get it. I have no problems. Also, sound shouldn't be perfectly clear. People still don't know exactly what happened during the JFK assassination, remember? Acoustics are not always intuitive in real life, but in GO I have no problem with them.


But CS GO isn't trying to be realistic, just a competitive fps and sound is very important in that scenario. The sound could use some work but I don't find it as bad as some say.
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