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Hostage AI was just a mess back in the days, remember, the original hostages were not carried by you, but they were running behind you, a congo line of up to 4 hostages. It was way easier dealing with a bomb then the rotten hostages who stucked everywhere, annoyed you to the maximum and the worst of it, if the Ts just killed 3 of the 4 of them, CTs only could win that round by killing all Ts. Other annoying thing was, that you could only win, when you rescue all alive hostages (and their number is 2 or bigger). So you could either congo line 4 hostages behind you (with the risk of them getting stuck) and being an open target or you could kill 2 hostages as CT and rescue the other 2 ones.
Its was just not practical for competition with these design flaws and the DE scenarios where vastly better as you didnt have to deal with a crazy AI.
In CS:GO the way to fix the hostages was to just reduce their count, make them unkillable and instead of them running behind you, you carry them now. And yeah, if you rescue one hostage, you won the round. But its too late, CS is no defined by the DE mode and CS is the thing you play with your lan party friends to have a great laugh and be reminded of the great days of only assault, only italy and only office days.
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I remember having lots of fun with hostage maps, in particular on Office, Assault, Thunder and Motel. The reason for this is because I was always playing these maps with a couple of friends from university (We have gone in different direction, both IRL and in gaming) . While I can certainly understand why defuse missions are better competitively, my absolute favorite moments as a silver scrub in CSGO has been on hostage maps
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United Kingdom7084 Posts
I really enjoyed Office, but unless they remake it into de_office, I'll probably never play office again. Anyone played Canals? What a strange map. There's too many dead ends and fights at the site. It is reminiscent to all the other failed maps.
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Canals is a pretty fun map imo. Good pug map not a great competitive map. You get to do a lot of fun strats on t side but ct is a bit rough.
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It's interesting to see if Valve is fine with Canals being just a random casual map outside the comp pool. Right now it seems to have way too many issues to be even remotely viable for comp, but that hasn't stopped Valve on some of the previous additions...
I can't remember how Overpass and Cobble looked when they were released, but it feels like Canals is way more broken at the moment.
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On March 21 2017 09:55 porkRaven wrote:
Canals is a pretty fun map imo. Good pug map not a great competitive map. You get to do a lot of fun strats on t side but ct is a bit rough.
fun but I hope it will not include in major stack
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On March 22 2017 02:53 Bacillus wrote:
It's interesting to see if Valve is fine with Canals being just a random casual map outside the comp pool. Right now it seems to have way too many issues to be even remotely viable for comp, but that hasn't stopped Valve on some of the previous additions...
I can't remember how Overpass and Cobble looked when they were released, but it feels like Canals is way more broken at the moment.
Everyone was complaining about Cobble and especially Overpass. Overpass turned out to be a pretty good map without many changes. Cobble obviously had to be changed a lot. I think the original version was not good indeed. It wasn't figured out at all though so nobody could really tell if something was really broken - other than the 1 minute A to B rotation for the Ts of course.
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On March 22 2017 23:48 Miragee wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2017 02:53 Bacillus wrote:
It's interesting to see if Valve is fine with Canals being just a random casual map outside the comp pool. Right now it seems to have way too many issues to be even remotely viable for comp, but that hasn't stopped Valve on some of the previous additions...
I can't remember how Overpass and Cobble looked when they were released, but it feels like Canals is way more broken at the moment. Everyone was complaining about Cobble and especially Overpass. Overpass turned out to be a pretty good map without many changes. Cobble obviously had to be changed a lot. I think the original version was not good indeed. It wasn't figured out at all though so nobody could really tell if something was really broken - other than the 1 minute A to B rotation for the Ts of course.
Yeah, I'm trying to recall how broken Cobble and Overpass were. They definitely were broken balance wise, but I still have the itch that Canals is far more broken and incomplete on general level.
Maybe they'll keep Canals in reserve for a while, keep working on it and then bring it in after Dust2 remake has been reintroduced first.
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France9034 Posts
On March 22 2017 23:48 Miragee wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2017 02:53 Bacillus wrote:
It's interesting to see if Valve is fine with Canals being just a random casual map outside the comp pool. Right now it seems to have way too many issues to be even remotely viable for comp, but that hasn't stopped Valve on some of the previous additions...
I can't remember how Overpass and Cobble looked when they were released, but it feels like Canals is way more broken at the moment. Everyone was complaining about Cobble and especially Overpass. Overpass turned out to be a pretty good map without many changes. Cobble obviously had to be changed a lot. I think the original version was not good indeed. It wasn't figured out at all though so nobody could really tell if something was really broken - other than the 1 minute A to B rotation for the Ts of course.
Even if they were broken at the launch, these maps weren't even remotely as convoluted nor bizarre as Canals. I'm willing to give it time as well, but it's going to take way bigger changes than what Cobble and Overpass went through imho.
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United Kingdom7084 Posts
Cobble and Overpass just needed a little opening up. Canals is closer to Mist. I've played Canals twice and I still don't get how to rotate other than to essentially go through CT/T spawn. Also that ladder to B from T side is just awful. It breaks every intuitive sense of map design.
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On March 23 2017 08:25 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Cobble and Overpass just needed a little opening up.
srsly?) cobble is open enough, overpass maybe a little bit closer... but I agree, canals will not be in the major stack, this ladder from T to B is awful.
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https://redd.it/611d2w
ESL, you have got to be kidding here? Do you really want to allow VAC-banned back? Or is this how you respond by not getting a major?
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absolute bullshit hahaha
#freeBrax, Dazed and Steel yo
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France9034 Posts
That's actually a non-issue and mostly a communication stunt, as showed by this interview of Sf and KQLY. Basically, yeah, they could compete again. But no one wants from them because:
1. They're hated by most of the local scene
2. They still can't compete at majors.
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ESL has never done different to cheating in the past:
ESL Wire ban: 2 years.
ESEA ban: 2 years.
Remember the "rip, see you in 2 years" posts?
They now just adopt it to VAC and get a line of consitency. It was always bullshit that you get caught cheating by a 3rd party anticheat and you get banned for 1 or 2 years and when you get vaced, you get banned forever and a day.
There are so many pros that got a VAC ban in 1.6. once, but we dont ban them forever. Whats the difference to VAC bans in CS:GO? None.
I dont argument that you should allow cheaters to play again, but its bullshit to have different rules for cheating bans just because they come from different anticheats. A cheater is a cheater and he should be punished the same, no matter who found out he cheated.
And now that they dont get Majors anymore, I would expect them to let other banned people play agian. I mean, they gave Dazed a job as analyst/commentator, that didnt make valve happy I bet.
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France9034 Posts
What I meant when I sad it's mostly communication, is that it's just one thing: ESL lining up how they treat VAC bans with how they treat their own bans.
The thing is, Valve still decides who plays at majors and who doesn't. And top teams want to play at majors. And ESL tournament are mostly for top teams. So all in all, even if technically it's possible, I don't see anytime soon a player that has a VAC ban recruited by any team in the top 20/30, and thus I believe it's won't even be remotely possible that we see a player with a VAC ban play in an ESL tournament.
The only way this could happen is if a mix / team of relatively unknown/unproven player with one of the VAC banned players actually manage to go through the whole qualification process and enter the leagues/tournaments. That would be hilarious as hell because I'm pretty sure ESL does not want that.
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Hyrule19185 Posts
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On March 24 2017 21:04 Ragnarork wrote:
What I meant when I sad it's mostly communication, is that it's just one thing: ESL lining up how they treat VAC bans with how they treat their own bans.
The thing is, Valve still decides who plays at majors and who doesn't. And top teams want to play at majors. And ESL tournament are mostly for top teams. So all in all, even if technically it's possible, I don't see anytime soon a player that has a VAC ban recruited by any team in the top 20/30, and thus I believe it's won't even be remotely possible that we see a player with a VAC ban play in an ESL tournament.
The only way this could happen is if a mix / team of relatively unknown/unproven player with one of the VAC banned players actually manage to go through the whole qualification process and enter the leagues/tournaments. That would be hilarious as hell because I'm pretty sure ESL does not want that.
Yeah, it doesn't make any sense why you'd want to waste all this practice, time, and energy on a team that wont be allowed to compete at a Major.
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United States15275 Posts
On March 23 2017 22:24 fpivan15 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2017 08:25 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Cobble and Overpass just needed a little opening up. srsly?) cobble is open enough, overpass maybe a little bit closer... but I agree, canals will not be in the major stack, this ladder from T to B is awful.
Even with the changes, Cobble has major tempo problems. CTs need a way to infiltrate the opponent's side of the map without constant fear of getting shredded when they turn a corner.
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United Kingdom7084 Posts
On March 23 2017 22:24 fpivan15 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2017 08:25 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Cobble and Overpass just needed a little opening up. srsly?) cobble is open enough, overpass maybe a little bit closer... but I agree, canals will not be in the major stack, this ladder from T to B is awful. I meant that they just needed a little opening up from the first incarnation. They are fine now.
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EPT
