EPTPath of Exile - Page 585
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Guild invites: Message any of EvoSenseOfPride, ScionViableORly, neophyteWham, TheTouchOfGOLD in game OR post your character name in the thread and ask for an invite Private league ladder (finished): https://www.pathofexile.com/private-leagues/league/TeamLiquid and friends | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
On November 20 2013 02:30 Sn0_Man wrote: TBH I want a gifts from above too (don't care about alternate art) just to try with my CoC build. But I literally cannot find one on the domination forums and have no idea what they are worth (they look pretty bad in the grand scheme of things). You have no time for racing? Or is it no fun for you? It's a fairly early reward. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
Plus I'm terrible at races in general so  I'll probably get there eventually iunno. I'm not really sure how points are awarded. PS are burst races the same as BLAMT or are they just 12 mins normal? | ||
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
2 hour races are still OK imo, though I'm not that good at the ones that happened so far. Too slow at getting to Act 3. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
12 min races are hilarious though I'll do them too. 1 hour starts to drag on for me cuz I'm stuck playing a shit character lol. | ||
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
On November 20 2013 03:03 Sn0_Man wrote: I think I'd like half hour races. Short enough that the "cost" is very little and i'm unlikely to get bored, plus RNG enough for me to feel like I have a chance (even though I dont). Long enough that 1 little mistake hopefully doesn't completely ruin me. 12 min races are hilarious though I'll do them too. 1 hour starts to drag on for me cuz I'm stuck playing a shit character lol. Currency not moving to the new leagues is quite sad, and I bet lots of people would actually care more about racing then. But then again, how would they do it? I personally wouldn't want my currency on Nemesis, but on Domination. But dying on Nemesis puts you to Standard, no? Well whatever, not gonna happen in the near future! If you like the competition, races are fun, else you might wanna go for the point rewards, though not all people like doing that. This season it's more appealing to do it, though, as some rewards are really nice. The first racing season where I actually want a reward, haha. | ||
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Varanice
United States1517 Posts
On November 20 2013 03:03 Sn0_Man wrote: I think I'd like half hour races. Short enough that the "cost" is very little and i'm unlikely to get bored, plus RNG enough for me to feel like I have a chance (even though I dont). Long enough that 1 little mistake hopefully doesn't completely ruin me. 12 min races are hilarious though I'll do them too. 1 hour starts to drag on for me cuz I'm stuck playing a shit character lol. The problem is that I think it would be just the same as the 1H races except killing Merveil probably won't even be worth it. You'll kill Brutus in like 14-16 minutes, then spend 5 to get to Coves and then probably farm Coves for the last 10 minutes. lol. I think I would like 12 minute fixed seed races better than the current ones though. I've lost 1st in my class so many times due to Flooded Depths being in the opposite location. | ||
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Eschaton
United States1245 Posts
On November 20 2013 02:19 Sn0_Man wrote: Oh wow you are at divination distillate? HNNNNNG i want that dumb flask lol grats. want. Although, at the current rate, it's going to take 25+ races to get there, unless I suddenly become less scrub. | ||
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bluQ
Germany1724 Posts
On November 19 2013 07:40 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: He's vastly overestimating the gains he is going to get from getting 200% more increased evasion. He is making the mistake of extrapolating evasion values and hasn't actually tested anything. Surely if 78% increased evasion is good then 300% evasion is off the wall insane awesome. This is not the case at all. Im not vastly overestimating anything, I just said that I'm running my main with few armor and it works well. Getting a lot of %increase while decreasing it because of acrobatics should at least turn out at the same armor as I'm running right now. What am I overestimating here? I never called it off the wall insane awesome, I don't know why you lay such words into my mouth. I really doubt you can tank a triple shock stack vaal slam. Obviously your plan is to evade it, but if it hits you then you're gonna die. That is if you even make it that far since you're gonna die to taking three laser beams. The vaal fight is balanced around dodging pretty much everything; if you can stand there and eat all of it then your build is gonna get patched no doubt. With Bringer and Dodge Vaal's smash has about 8% chance to hit you(before block!). Nuff? If you really think my example of going afk was sincere I am very sorry you interpreted it this way. Going dodge is always some kind of gamble but while you can sustain enough armor to not get oneshotted by not avoidable hits (through movment) you optimize the risk. I did not say anywhere that this build is OP or in anyway special. PoE is just a game where stuff like this is possible to do and actually a lot of fun. On November 19 2013 07:02 Sn0_Man wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but evading reflect damage involves rolling your own evasion rating against your own accuracy, correct? In that case, I would guess either you miss a lot or you don't mitigate reflect very well. Also, I know evasion rolls a chance to avoid crit but I wonder how that functions with reflect. If you crit a mob can you still evade the crit coming back and only take regular hit damage? If you roll the reflecting monster's accuracy rating then nevermind. Bringer of rain solves a lot of things tho... wonder why they thought that item was balanced. Dodge does not roll against anything. It just rolls (edit: misunderstood ur followup post to the quote  )It is rolled separately from Evasion, and is rolled before Block. The Chance to Dodge is a pseudo-random roll made per attack, and not entropy-based like Evasion. On November 19 2013 07:37 Sn0_Man wrote: I suppose my question is kinda dumb because he is referring to the flat 40% dodge from acrobatics + friends as opposed to any evasion (which IR would obviously convert). However, I'd say his physical mitigation vs reflect + crit (possibly double reflect) will be HIGHLY lacking with acro + IR. Obviously he's the one who has tested it not me. ST makes it possible. As I said before my main runs with an awesome sum of 4k armor before any buffs. I can sustain myself quite well on double reflect especially with granite/jade. And yes I am not using RT. Tho I have not yet skilled any crit%multiplier. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On November 20 2013 03:58 bluQ wrote: Dodge does not roll against anything. It just rolls Yes i acknowledged that in my next post thx. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On November 20 2013 03:58 bluQ wrote: Im not vastly overestimating anything, I just said that I'm running my main with few armor and it works well. Getting a lot of %increase while decreasing it because of acrobatics should at least turn out at the same armor as I'm running right now. What am I overestimating here? I never called it off the wall insane awesome, I don't know why you lay such words into my mouth. With Bringer and Dodge Vaal's smash has about 8% chance to hit you. Nuff? If you really think my example of going afk was sincere I am very sorry you interpreted it this way. Going dodge is always some kind of gamble but while you can sustain enough armor to not get oneshotted by not avoidable hits (through movment) you optimize the risk. I did not say anywhere that this build is OP or in anyway special. PoE is just a game where stuff like this is possible to do and actually a lot of fun. Dodge does not roll against anything. It just rolls Stacking up to 300% increased evasion is a waste of skill points. If you think you're getting any benefit from doing such a thing then you're vastly overestimating the gains from evasion exactly as I pointed out. I will say I exaggerated a bit, but the gains from getting to 300% increased evasion are too marginal to care about. You're offsetting your armor loss with the dodge from acrobatics and the block/blind from bringer of rain. + Show Spoiler [Snowall] + On November 20 2013 00:55 Sn0_Man wrote: With a 10.6 crit wand (they go to about 12 on slower bases or 11 and a bit on the fast base), I'm at 70% chance to crit with power charges up (6 max, 7 soon). Level 59. Toss in maligaros, a better base and the last power charge and I expect to be pushing 85-90% crit chance in a few levels. Fireball (the spell i'm casting on crit) has a 6% base crit chance so it won't go much above 50% crit chance I don't think but that is still solid. If I hit a group of 5 mobs, I get 15 hits. If that is a crit, I'm looking at 15 * (.68 end game, currently about .58) chance to cast = about 9-10 casts of gmp-chain fireball. Which all explode on the 3rd target for extra AoE. I think this is more powerful than blitz is giving it credit for. Yes my single target sucks but I'm sure I can concoct something to make that better (since spell damage scales the rest of my build and I already have insane crit chance with decent multi). So far, no need for shav's or righteous fire + new hat or pain attunement or w/e, and my wand is practically vendor trash. Mana is a serious concern but I'm working on it (currently EB). I cull most mobs due to the amount I hit with power siphon. This build is mega softcore though. Especially since ideally you will be off-screening as much as possible due to ridiculously low surivivability without gear (and I promise I have a real amount of life nodes). Anything that tries to fight you at range simply loses, but anything that gets in your face can often abuse the lag you cause by casting 50+ fireballs to kill you (:/). With arctic armor I think reflect wouldn't actually be that bad considering the low damage each individual fireball does. Problem being mana since I'm at 84 mana cost to power siphon (level 1 PS). I guess I'd recommend levelling as Freeze pulse until at least 60? You need a ton of mana and 250 crit chance plus at least 2 power charges from the tree before this build gets going. And a 5link. So major issues: 1) lag caused by fireballs. The GGG Visual Effects guy said he's working on this right now since its literally impossible for any computer to properly render mass fireballs. 2) MANA. especially since you need arctic armor late game against reflect. EB/Discipline/Clarity isn't cutting it at level 59 with like 250 int and some good mana nodes. (I have very limited ES on gear though). 3) Unreliability. If you can get around 3 power siphons off you are in business but if you get facerushed by say those jumpers from sceptre of god then you often dont really have time to get blasting before you are dead. I don't think this is as big a deal as others think (especially if you can get going with a quality cast on crit) but if you get surrounded your only out is to get a big crit and wipe the mobs and that simply isn't a given although it is quite likely. Maybe I should run discharge for those situations... zomg. NEW PLAN. 4) Single target. I haven't solved this but it should be easy on a 7 power charge 350 crit multi 100 spell damage character to unload on something. May involve a weapon switch. Currently Frenzy + Increased crit dmg + Faster attacks + Added cold (I had a spare green slot) isn't doing it. Was hoping to freeze lock bosses or something. My wand has no damage mods though. 5) GEAR. Getting the right wand is kinda hard (people will sell what you want to the vendor because who the fuck wants Crit/Attackspeed wands with no IPD or ele rolls?). Your ideal wand is probably Prefix: Spell damage, IPD, Flat Phys Suffix: Crit, IAS, Accuracy. Maybe local lightning damage instead of the phys stuff. Not that accuracy is a problem now but in maps... i'm worried. Plus you need a 5link. Plus you have limited life passives available and no resist passives so your gear has to make up for that. Plus its hard to get any sort of half decent armor total with the gear you need. Attack speed isn't a problem since you are mana limited and can frenzy up a few charges once your mana gets there. AoE damage is absolutely not a problem (maybe in big map groups? TBH I think it will stay insane). So yeah, thats my cast on crit build. Sorry for the wall of text. I'm not recommending that you copy it exactly I'm just trying to share my experiences with it. It's pretty fun, although I wish I was doing some damage with just attacks. Part of me wants to say that you should find an insane wand, then tailor your build to fit that wand. Once you wipe an entire pack of mobs 3 levels above you in fellshrine with 1 attack though... its hard to go back lol. E: O dear this was much bigger than I thought. Apologies. Current build for anybody curious. I think I'd start Scion if I had to restart this char since I'm probably going to hit the scion start nodes up for attack speed at some point. The only issue I have with cast on crit is if you think shooting GMP/Chain fireballs is so cool why don't you just cast them yourself instead of wasting your gem links on cast on crit and a weapon attack. The opportunity cost of gearing around it and getting it all set up simply isn't worthwhile, but if you think it is fun then that is what the game is all about. Using a weapon attack to cast on crit a spell is dumb because you need accuracy. Getting accuracy capped is the most important part of crit damage because of the way evasion works. Then you're getting all this gear for a stat you shouldn't need and your damage suffers because you have to split your nodes between the weapon damage or spell damage. That net hat would solve some of these issues, but it is still pretty far out there. | ||
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Monsen
Germany2548 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On November 20 2013 04:20 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: The only issue I have with cast on crit is if you think shooting GMP/Chain fireballs is so cool why don't you just cast them yourself instead of wasting your gem links on cast on crit and a weapon attack. The opportunity cost of gearing around it and getting it all set up simply isn't worthwhile, but if you think it is fun then that is what the game is all about. Using a weapon attack to cast on crit a spell is dumb because you need accuracy. Getting accuracy capped is the most important part of crit damage because of the way evasion works. Then you're getting all this gear for a stat you shouldn't need and your damage suffers because you have to split your nodes between the weapon damage or spell damage. That net hat would solve some of these issues, but it is still pretty far out there. First and foremost, yes this build is strictly for fun. I did it because it's awesome and I wanted to break cast on crit. I make no claims about the build being "the best" or even "end game viable" when I'm merely 59. I definitely make claims about it being incredibly fun though! Now, + Show Spoiler [my response] + 1) You can't cast fireballs anywhere near this fast. Its not that GMP chain fireball is awesome (though it is) its that GMP chain powersiphon gets me lots of (helpfully GMP chain) fireballs. And its a GREAT way to generate power charges for a crit build. 2) Spell crits can't miss. Yes I need plenty of accuracy to proc the crits on hit but otherwise... My damage is all about crit fireball (3rd best base crit spell in the game after ice spear and discharge). I have no use for weapon damage nodes since weapon crits are strictly for casting fireball which allows me to focus on spell dmg nodes if I want them. Besides which, global crit multi is far better damage at this point than either spell damage or weapon damage nodes (ok not the shitty 10% nodes). The opportunity cost of gearing around it is UNDISPUTABLY HIGH but at the core it's simply a high crit build, and rather than trying to scale attack damage with useless shitty wands that do awful dps unless u pay like 11 exalts for a reasonable one, I'm scaling crit damage with spells in a manner that allows me to cast way more spells than any other spell crit build. While each spell does far less damage, with arctic armor that kinda helps against reflect etc. Iunno, If you disagree this is gonna get long and theres no real reason to discuss more, but I kinda feel like you are dismissing the build without any real frame of reference. On November 20 2013 04:36 Monsen wrote: What's the highest that spells go, crit wise? Because I'd imagine you could have some serious EK spam with cast on crit. Especially the spells that are more effective close range (freeze pulse, incinerate (tempest shield !?) and such). Discharge has 8% base crit, Ice spear has 7% base crit, Fireball has 6% base crit, nothing else is over 5% afaik. Discharge cast on crit is pretty reasonable excepting that you MUST use volls since otherwise you can't keep up the power charges that feed your crits. PS: I have a friend doing cast-on-crit EK with quill rain. That too is incredibly awesome (although he is running a volls for power charges, which may not be ideal I'm not sure at this point). The projectile speed from quill rain makes EK go off-screen (softcore build blah blah blah) so stuff MELTS although its a real chore getting quill rain to a decent crit chance. . | ||
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ZoRoXo
Norway268 Posts
On November 20 2013 03:40 Eschaton wrote: want. Although, at the current rate, it's going to take 25+ races to get there, unless I suddenly become less scrub. Just pick a cookie cutter build and learn the basics. When I first started out I used 1 hour to kill merveil with no mods, now I pretty much never use over 40 mins, I'd even say 35 min depending on mods. Dual wield cleave and spectral throw are the 2 probably easiest to learn, at least it felt like that for me. Both can get by even with really terrible rng. I've managed twice this season to hit the top lvl bracket with close to white weapons for the majority of the run | ||
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bluQ
Germany1724 Posts
On November 20 2013 04:20 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: Stacking up to 300% increased evasion is a waste of skill points. If you think you're getting any benefit from doing such a thing then you're vastly overestimating the gains from evasion exactly as I pointed out. I will say I exaggerated a bit, but the gains from getting to 300% increased evasion are too marginal to care about. You're offsetting your armor loss with the dodge from acrobatics and the block/blind from bringer of rain. 240% evasion is gained by just skilling the evasion circle to get to shadow tree from scion start and than the 1+1 nullification nodes. the other 60% would be achieved by skilling into the 2nd nullification circle which would be +7 points from acro. I don't think it is a waste tho as I pointed out i am not sure if ~250% is enough to not get oneshotted by certain unfortunate combination of mobbuffs. If it feels to squishy I gladly invest +7 to keep me alive. And what I really don't understand what you mean by overestimating the gain from evasion. I lose 50% of my armor at the end of the calucation. The only thing that scales exponetially with armor is the incoming damage. The increase of armor is linear to the increase of multiplier. In essence: Yes this build will mostlikly have more armor than my main with the same gear. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On November 20 2013 04:48 Sn0_Man wrote: First and foremost, yes this build is strictly for fun. I did it because it's awesome and I wanted to break cast on crit. I make no claims about the build being "the best" or even "end game viable" when I'm merely 59. I definitely make claims about it being incredibly fun though! Now, + Show Spoiler [my response] + 1) You can't cast fireballs anywhere near this fast. Its not that GMP chain fireball is awesome (though it is) its that GMP chain powersiphon gets me lots of (helpfully GMP chain) fireballs. And its a GREAT way to generate power charges for a crit build. 2) Spell crits can't miss. Yes I need plenty of accuracy to proc the crits on hit but otherwise... My damage is all about crit fireball (3rd best base crit spell in the game after ice spear and discharge). I have no use for weapon damage nodes since weapon crits are strictly for casting fireball which allows me to focus on spell dmg nodes if I want them. Besides which, global crit multi is far better damage at this point than either spell damage or weapon damage nodes (ok not the shitty 10% nodes). The opportunity cost of gearing around it is UNDISPUTABLY HIGH but at the core it's simply a high crit build, and rather than trying to scale attack damage with useless shitty wands that do awful dps unless u pay like 11 exalts for a reasonable one, I'm scaling crit damage with spells in a manner that allows me to cast way more spells than any other spell crit build. While each spell does far less damage, with arctic armor that kinda helps against reflect etc. Iunno, If you disagree this is gonna get long and theres no real reason to discuss more, but I kinda feel like you are dismissing the build without any real frame of reference. You can't cast fireballs that fast, but you can cast fireballs with two more linked skills and much better gear since you don't need offbeat stats like accuracy. At infinite gear level it is clear that this build would be superior, but reaching that gear level is not easy and this build is the next discharge so I'd expect the gear for it to rise in price a ton. I'm aware that spells don't roll accuracy. You need to crit for your spells to proc from attacking which requires accuracy; a stat that any other caster build does not need. Unless you meant that the spells proc even if the crits get reduced to normal attacks, but I don't see why that would be the case. There are a lot of strange mechanics with this new gem though so it wouldn't surprise me. The build is definitely end game viable, but if you're complaining about paying 11 exalts for a wand then you're playing the wrong build. The entry level to make it work are even steeper than that because of the survival you'll need and the fact that the build is reliant on having a six link. There is also a chance that the crit mechanics will be put into line with other mechanics that only allow one proc per attack which would neuter the build to null usability or make it require quill rain which some people are already doing. On November 20 2013 05:12 bluQ wrote: 240% evasion is gained by just skilling the evasion circle to get to shadow tree from scion start and than the 1+1 nullification nodes. the other 60% would be achieved by skilling into the 2nd nullification circle which would be +7 points from acro. I don't think it is a waste tho as I pointed out i am not sure if ~250% is enough to not get oneshotted by certain unfortunate combination of mobbuffs. If it feels to squishy I gladly invest +7 to keep me alive. And what I really don't understand what you mean by overestimating the gain from evasion. I lose 50% of my armor at the end of the calucation. The only thing that scales exponetially with armor is the incoming damage. The increase of armor is linear to the increase of multiplier. In essence: Yes this build will mostlikly have more armor than my main with the same gear. and I'd say going around the entire circle would be a waste of skill points. You can get to the shadow tree that way by only taking four evasion nodes (five if you want to spend one extra point for a 30% node). That is also assuming there isn't a more efficient way to get to the shadow tree. I'm not sure what your passive tree looks like, but heading south into the duelist area first and then heading around the perimeter of the circle could be a better option, especially since this build includes IR as far as I can tell. It is all about opportunity cost. A skill point placed into an armor or evasion node (especially all those 10% nodes) is a waste in my eyes because that increase in damage mitigation is meaningless. Yes your build will have more armor than your main, but why do you want more armor? You're already adding Bringer of Rain and you said your Nem character is doing fine so why do you want even more armor, a stat that stacking doesn't actually provide much mitigation? | ||
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Otolia
France5805 Posts
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On November 20 2013 05:28 Otolia wrote: I think the following build is the most optimized pure evasion build : http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/503727 Summary of build: Use every damage mitigation mechanic in the game in the same build ^_^ | ||
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Otolia
France5805 Posts
On November 20 2013 05:31 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: Summary of build: Use every damage mitigation mechanic in the game in the same build ^_^ Funny thing; this guy made that build for softcore :D | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
I would assume this would have been figured out in the good old Lightning Arrow days but I didn't really play much back then. Do you know blitz? Anyway, this build doesn't need shit like cast speed so you can't just say "well you need X more things" since you can also drop stats from gear. Also it functions fine in a 5L so long as you have lots of surgeons pots. Yes 6L would be heavily preferable but w/e. That is (to an extent) true for every build. I promise i'm done with this topic now though since I'm sure nobody wants to read this discussion. | ||
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