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Path of Exile - Page 1279

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Joni_
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany352 Posts
August 09 2017 10:53 GMT
#25561
On August 09 2017 17:50 -Archangel- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2017 12:15 r.Evo wrote:
Alurrs profile is public, PoB from when I exploded is here. - note that my setup basically just weaponswaps for bosses, otherwise more damage didn't feel needed. Alurrs version runs around with a lot more regen and just sticks to the Dyadus all day.

Also shhh... was surprised Alurr even mentioned it in here but now the sekrit is out anyway. =P

That is interesting build but I know what Pohx would say, that you are much slower with cyclone than what he is doing.

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but whats the merrit of using Immortal Flesh? Is 75hp/sek just really that much?
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
August 09 2017 12:04 GMT
#25562
Alur, I am confused about something with your build.

How are you using elemental equilibrium if your mainhand does fire damage?
r.Evo
Profile Joined August 2006
Germany14080 Posts
August 09 2017 12:28 GMT
#25563
On August 09 2017 17:50 -Archangel- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2017 12:15 r.Evo wrote:
Alurrs profile is public, PoB from when I exploded is here. - note that my setup basically just weaponswaps for bosses, otherwise more damage didn't feel needed. Alurrs version runs around with a lot more regen and just sticks to the Dyadus all day.

Also shhh... was surprised Alurr even mentioned it in here but now the sekrit is out anyway. =P

That is interesting build but I know what Pohx would say, that you are much slower with cyclone than what he is doing.

Not really, the main loss is that of a flask slot due to the Adrenaline Quicksilver. Notably I *can* also shieldcharge fast if I want to, but it's just slower and more clunky than simply running past packs at the gear I had. My endgame setup would be Brightbeak+RotP in one slot with a high dmg scepter & Dyadus in weaponswap (Doryanis works). At that point you do ~30% less damage than a Berserker while running through the map (the horror) while retaining 50% more dmg than him against bosses on top of the overall tankyness.

And if you'd pick Berserker for a Dyadus variant you're getting ~30% more damage out of it at high levels of gear compared to Juggernaut taking ~20% less. Glossing over the fortify effect & reduced damage taken like Pohx does and seeing Berserker strictly as "40% more done, 10% more taken" is pretty naive.

All the Berserker versions of this are imo strictly worse than any Dyadus Jugg or even Chieftain (more regen, easier Endurance charge sustain, less tanky) variant. The main reason to not pick this over Berserker is the Warcry heal, nothing else. That's definitely a good reason but also a debatable one for most scenarios, especially in HC, considering what you lose out on.

As for Alurrs DW version, he simply scales movespeed like crazy between Blood Dance, Adrenaline and Jugg passive while getting out wayyy more damage compared to Berserker with Brightbeak. Berserker without Brightbeak is strictly slower.
"We don't make mistakes here, we call it happy little accidents." ~Bob Ross
r.Evo
Profile Joined August 2006
Germany14080 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-09 12:30:00
August 09 2017 12:29 GMT
#25564
On August 09 2017 21:04 travis wrote:
Alur, I am confused about something with your build.

How are you using elemental equilibrium if your mainhand does fire damage?

Check his ring & boots. Also his Cyclone links. He smart.
"We don't make mistakes here, we call it happy little accidents." ~Bob Ross
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-09 12:49:12
August 09 2017 12:46 GMT
#25565
so his cyclone does no elemental and then berek's gives it cold damage anyways?
it works like that? interesting

whelp, im copying it.
with a few twists. probably some different gear. but i will copy the brutality idea (thats really smart..) to use 2 dyadus
r.Evo
Profile Joined August 2006
Germany14080 Posts
August 09 2017 12:51 GMT
#25566
On August 09 2017 21:46 travis wrote:
so his cyclone does no elemental and then berek's gives it cold damage anyways?
it works like that? interesting

whelp, im copying it.
with a few twists. probably some different gear. but i will copy the brutality idea (thats really smart..) to use 2 dyadus

Cold dmg to spells via his BV. Small note to advertise my variant, he loses the holy fire cluster which is like 20% of my damage. I *think* it's pretty even in the end until he goes full Alurr and crafts OP rings.
"We don't make mistakes here, we call it happy little accidents." ~Bob Ross
-Archangel-
Profile Joined May 2010
Croatia7457 Posts
August 09 2017 13:13 GMT
#25567
On August 09 2017 21:28 r.Evo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2017 17:50 -Archangel- wrote:
On August 09 2017 12:15 r.Evo wrote:
Alurrs profile is public, PoB from when I exploded is here. - note that my setup basically just weaponswaps for bosses, otherwise more damage didn't feel needed. Alurrs version runs around with a lot more regen and just sticks to the Dyadus all day.

Also shhh... was surprised Alurr even mentioned it in here but now the sekrit is out anyway. =P

That is interesting build but I know what Pohx would say, that you are much slower with cyclone than what he is doing.

Not really, the main loss is that of a flask slot due to the Adrenaline Quicksilver. Notably I *can* also shieldcharge fast if I want to, but it's just slower and more clunky than simply running past packs at the gear I had. My endgame setup would be Brightbeak+RotP in one slot with a high dmg scepter & Dyadus in weaponswap (Doryanis works). At that point you do ~30% less damage than a Berserker while running through the map (the horror) while retaining 50% more dmg than him against bosses on top of the overall tankyness.

And if you'd pick Berserker for a Dyadus variant you're getting ~30% more damage out of it at high levels of gear compared to Juggernaut taking ~20% less. Glossing over the fortify effect & reduced damage taken like Pohx does and seeing Berserker strictly as "40% more done, 10% more taken" is pretty naive.

All the Berserker versions of this are imo strictly worse than any Dyadus Jugg or even Chieftain (more regen, easier Endurance charge sustain, less tanky) variant. The main reason to not pick this over Berserker is the Warcry heal, nothing else. That's definitely a good reason but also a debatable one for most scenarios, especially in HC, considering what you lose out on.

As for Alurrs DW version, he simply scales movespeed like crazy between Blood Dance, Adrenaline and Jugg passive while getting out wayyy more damage compared to Berserker with Brightbeak. Berserker without Brightbeak is strictly slower.

What stops you from going Berserker with 2x Drydus? That is way more damage than any other combination.
r.Evo
Profile Joined August 2006
Germany14080 Posts
August 09 2017 13:22 GMT
#25568
On August 09 2017 22:13 -Archangel- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2017 21:28 r.Evo wrote:
On August 09 2017 17:50 -Archangel- wrote:
On August 09 2017 12:15 r.Evo wrote:
Alurrs profile is public, PoB from when I exploded is here. - note that my setup basically just weaponswaps for bosses, otherwise more damage didn't feel needed. Alurrs version runs around with a lot more regen and just sticks to the Dyadus all day.

Also shhh... was surprised Alurr even mentioned it in here but now the sekrit is out anyway. =P

That is interesting build but I know what Pohx would say, that you are much slower with cyclone than what he is doing.

Not really, the main loss is that of a flask slot due to the Adrenaline Quicksilver. Notably I *can* also shieldcharge fast if I want to, but it's just slower and more clunky than simply running past packs at the gear I had. My endgame setup would be Brightbeak+RotP in one slot with a high dmg scepter & Dyadus in weaponswap (Doryanis works). At that point you do ~30% less damage than a Berserker while running through the map (the horror) while retaining 50% more dmg than him against bosses on top of the overall tankyness.

And if you'd pick Berserker for a Dyadus variant you're getting ~30% more damage out of it at high levels of gear compared to Juggernaut taking ~20% less. Glossing over the fortify effect & reduced damage taken like Pohx does and seeing Berserker strictly as "40% more done, 10% more taken" is pretty naive.

All the Berserker versions of this are imo strictly worse than any Dyadus Jugg or even Chieftain (more regen, easier Endurance charge sustain, less tanky) variant. The main reason to not pick this over Berserker is the Warcry heal, nothing else. That's definitely a good reason but also a debatable one for most scenarios, especially in HC, considering what you lose out on.

As for Alurrs DW version, he simply scales movespeed like crazy between Blood Dance, Adrenaline and Jugg passive while getting out wayyy more damage compared to Berserker with Brightbeak. Berserker without Brightbeak is strictly slower.

What stops you from going Berserker with 2x Drydus? That is way more damage than any other combination.

Takes 20% more and does 30% more compared to Jugg. Not a good trade.
"We don't make mistakes here, we call it happy little accidents." ~Bob Ross
-Archangel-
Profile Joined May 2010
Croatia7457 Posts
August 09 2017 14:35 GMT
#25569
On August 09 2017 22:22 r.Evo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2017 22:13 -Archangel- wrote:
On August 09 2017 21:28 r.Evo wrote:
On August 09 2017 17:50 -Archangel- wrote:
On August 09 2017 12:15 r.Evo wrote:
Alurrs profile is public, PoB from when I exploded is here. - note that my setup basically just weaponswaps for bosses, otherwise more damage didn't feel needed. Alurrs version runs around with a lot more regen and just sticks to the Dyadus all day.

Also shhh... was surprised Alurr even mentioned it in here but now the sekrit is out anyway. =P

That is interesting build but I know what Pohx would say, that you are much slower with cyclone than what he is doing.

Not really, the main loss is that of a flask slot due to the Adrenaline Quicksilver. Notably I *can* also shieldcharge fast if I want to, but it's just slower and more clunky than simply running past packs at the gear I had. My endgame setup would be Brightbeak+RotP in one slot with a high dmg scepter & Dyadus in weaponswap (Doryanis works). At that point you do ~30% less damage than a Berserker while running through the map (the horror) while retaining 50% more dmg than him against bosses on top of the overall tankyness.

And if you'd pick Berserker for a Dyadus variant you're getting ~30% more damage out of it at high levels of gear compared to Juggernaut taking ~20% less. Glossing over the fortify effect & reduced damage taken like Pohx does and seeing Berserker strictly as "40% more done, 10% more taken" is pretty naive.

All the Berserker versions of this are imo strictly worse than any Dyadus Jugg or even Chieftain (more regen, easier Endurance charge sustain, less tanky) variant. The main reason to not pick this over Berserker is the Warcry heal, nothing else. That's definitely a good reason but also a debatable one for most scenarios, especially in HC, considering what you lose out on.

As for Alurrs DW version, he simply scales movespeed like crazy between Blood Dance, Adrenaline and Jugg passive while getting out wayyy more damage compared to Berserker with Brightbeak. Berserker without Brightbeak is strictly slower.

What stops you from going Berserker with 2x Drydus? That is way more damage than any other combination.

Takes 20% more and does 30% more compared to Jugg. Not a good trade.

Depends on if you are playing SC or HC
Alur
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Denmark3900 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-09 16:44:37
August 09 2017 16:43 GMT
#25570
On August 09 2017 17:50 -Archangel- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2017 12:15 r.Evo wrote:
Alurrs profile is public, PoB from when I exploded is here. - note that my setup basically just weaponswaps for bosses, otherwise more damage didn't feel needed. Alurrs version runs around with a lot more regen and just sticks to the Dyadus all day.

Also shhh... was surprised Alurr even mentioned it in here but now the sekrit is out anyway. =P

That is interesting build but I know what Pohx would say, that you are much slower with cyclone than what he is doing.

You can just have a shield setup on weapon swap, your single target will be better and you'd have the same clearspeed. Besides, rotp isn't cheap at the moment.

Anyhow, heres an enfeeble hydra kill. No offensive curse and low EO+Frenzy uptime, this could easily be fixed with the right gem setup and not being bad.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/6smf2j/double_dyadus_rf_2m30s_enfeeble_hydra_kill/
AKA No can Dazzle | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlTpX7z3Pok
TL+ Member
Joni_
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany352 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-09 16:57:35
August 09 2017 16:57 GMT
#25571
How did you level the char? When did you switch into RF? Any specific tips on leveling? This looks too sweet to pass on completely, so I guess I'll give it a go with a couple of twists.. :>
r.Evo
Profile Joined August 2006
Germany14080 Posts
August 09 2017 17:06 GMT
#25572
rip that thread, pretty sad this isn't getting the attention it deserves.
"We don't make mistakes here, we call it happy little accidents." ~Bob Ross
Alur
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Denmark3900 Posts
August 09 2017 17:14 GMT
#25573
On August 10 2017 01:57 Joni_ wrote:
How did you level the char? When did you switch into RF? Any specific tips on leveling? This looks too sweet to pass on completely, so I guess I'll give it a go with a couple of twists.. :>

Grabbed a few 1h and dualwield nodes + RT and just bought cheap OP weapons to sunder with.
AKA No can Dazzle | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlTpX7z3Pok
TL+ Member
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
August 09 2017 17:59 GMT
#25574
I'm confused a bit by some of the math and builds: Glacial Cascade is physical with 60% to Cold and I saw that one build uses Hatred. So should I be looking for Phys damage or Elemental? I'm thinking especially on some of these jewel rewards.
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
August 09 2017 18:32 GMT
#25575
On August 10 2017 02:59 Jerubaal wrote:
I'm confused a bit by some of the math and builds: Glacial Cascade is physical with 60% to Cold and I saw that one build uses Hatred. So should I be looking for Phys damage or Elemental? I'm thinking especially on some of these jewel rewards.


either one, it will scale equally off of physical or elemental damage.

however, if you have added flat sources of elemental damage, then it will scale off of %elemental more.
Duka08
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
3391 Posts
August 09 2017 18:46 GMT
#25576
Sort of on that topic: if you have multiple "Phys converted to X" type effects, can it go over 100%? Glacial Cascade is physical but then 60% of physical is converted to cold. But then a guide I'm looking at recommends linking the Phys dmg to Lighting support to it, which converts 50% physical to lightning. Does that mean:

a) "100% physical" -> 60% cold + 50% lightning + 0% phys
or
b) "100% physical" -> 60% cold + 40% lightning + 0% phys

... since there isn't "50% phys left to convert"... per se. Idk if I'm explaining this right, but just curious about how these sorts of mechanics work. With Hatred the idea of "gain %phys EXTRA as cold" makes sense, but converting is a bit confusing as far as which order things occur in.
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-09 19:00:55
August 09 2017 18:49 GMT
#25577
Actually, I'm not sure it quite scales equally off physical or elemental damage. If the spell had 100 base damage with 60% converted to cold, getting 10% increased physical or spell damage on your gear leads to 110 DPS split 66 cold/44 phys. Getting 10% increased elemental damage only leads to 106 base damage-66 cold and 40 phys.

Having 10% phys and 10% ele on your tree would lead to (I think) you dealing 100*.6*1.2 = 72 cold damage and 100*0.4*1.1 = 44 phy damage for a total of 114 damage, rather than 120 damage you would get from 20% increased physical.

Same goes for "More" multipliers. One of the reasons you push for 100% conversion is because that means both your physical and elemental increased damage modifiers are applying to all the damage. Like how Izaro's Turmoil jewel with 25% increased fire and 25% increased cold damage acts as a 50% increased damage node if you 100% convert cold to fire.

I could be totally misrepresenting this because things can be really, really wonky, so I apologize.

On August 10 2017 03:46 Duka08 wrote:
Sort of on that topic: if you have multiple "Phys converted to X" type effects, can it go over 100%? Glacial Cascade is physical but then 60% of physical is converted to cold. But then a guide I'm looking at recommends linking the Phys dmg to Lighting support to it, which converts 50% physical to lightning. Does that mean:

a) "100% physical" -> 60% cold + 50% lightning + 0% phys
or
b) "100% physical" -> 60% cold + 40% lightning + 0% phys

... since there isn't "50% phys left to convert"... per se. Idk if I'm explaining this right, but just curious about how these sorts of mechanics work. With Hatred the idea of "gain %phys EXTRA as cold" makes sense, but converting is a bit confusing as far as which order things occur in.


This also gets really weird. Assuming the wiki is correct, which is a big assumption because it can be wrong about things for a looooong time and I've heard some reports about damage conversion being buggy post 3.0, you end up scaling things down. For example if we had:

50% of Physical Damage converted to Cold Damage from a skill gem
30% of Physical Damage converted to Fire Damage from gear
30% of Physical Damage converted to Lightning Damage from gear

The skill gem conversion takes precedent such that the cold damage gets 50% of the phys. The remaining 50% from gear is then split between fire and lightning damage for 25% each.

Here, though, we have two skill gems, and skill gems are not supposed to get scaled according to the wiki. I think the main skill gem takes precedent and doesn't get scaled and then the support phys to lightning gets 100% of the remaining 40% (such that it would end up with 60% cold and 40% lightning). If you had another 50% of your phys damage converted to fire from gear, for example, I think you would end up with 60% cold/20% fire/20%lightning. But unsure.

Again, this is all really weird. It definitely doesn't take 60% of the remaining 40% phys, though, I know that much.
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
August 09 2017 18:54 GMT
#25578
you are right tenth, it doesn't scale equally, sorry. I assumed that he was doing a full conversion (which you almost always should)

and no duka, it cannot. it would be "b"
Duka08
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
3391 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-09 19:08:15
August 09 2017 19:05 GMT
#25579
On August 10 2017 03:49 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Here, though, we have two skill gems, and skill gems are not supposed to get scaled according to the wiki. I think the main skill gem takes precedent and doesn't get scaled and then the support phys to lightning gets 100% of the remaining 40% (such that it would end up with 60% cold and 40% lightning).

Ok this is how I assumed it worked. And I'm assuming the reason to do this is so that 40% lightning "leftover" double dips from +phys AND +ele gear/talents? As opposed to just leaving it as 60%cold+40%phys and using a different support gem?
Nocticate
Profile Joined May 2013
Vatican City State2902 Posts
August 09 2017 19:28 GMT
#25580
ugh, awful performance on dx9 combined with dx11 being literally unplayable for me means I'm taking a break until GGG fixes dx11. i die every other time i jump into a pack in act 10 because of screen freezes and i'm playing a slayer so if i'm not attacking, i'm dead. i'm really pissed about this, even with my potato i've been able to at least play the game to maps when I try.
Chairman Mao tells us imperialist Dota is a paper tiger
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