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Joni_
Germany355 Posts
On August 09 2017 17:50 -Archangel- wrote: That is interesting build but I know what Pohx would say, that you are much slower with cyclone than what he is doing. Sorry if this is a stupid question, but whats the merrit of using Immortal Flesh? Is 75hp/sek just really that much? | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
How are you using elemental equilibrium if your mainhand does fire damage? | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
On August 09 2017 17:50 -Archangel- wrote: That is interesting build but I know what Pohx would say, that you are much slower with cyclone than what he is doing. Not really, the main loss is that of a flask slot due to the Adrenaline Quicksilver. Notably I *can* also shieldcharge fast if I want to, but it's just slower and more clunky than simply running past packs at the gear I had. My endgame setup would be Brightbeak+RotP in one slot with a high dmg scepter & Dyadus in weaponswap (Doryanis works). At that point you do ~30% less damage than a Berserker while running through the map (the horror) while retaining 50% more dmg than him against bosses on top of the overall tankyness. And if you'd pick Berserker for a Dyadus variant you're getting ~30% more damage out of it at high levels of gear compared to Juggernaut taking ~20% less. Glossing over the fortify effect & reduced damage taken like Pohx does and seeing Berserker strictly as "40% more done, 10% more taken" is pretty naive. All the Berserker versions of this are imo strictly worse than any Dyadus Jugg or even Chieftain (more regen, easier Endurance charge sustain, less tanky) variant. The main reason to not pick this over Berserker is the Warcry heal, nothing else. That's definitely a good reason but also a debatable one for most scenarios, especially in HC, considering what you lose out on. As for Alurrs DW version, he simply scales movespeed like crazy between Blood Dance, Adrenaline and Jugg passive while getting out wayyy more damage compared to Berserker with Brightbeak. Berserker without Brightbeak is strictly slower. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
On August 09 2017 21:04 travis wrote: Alur, I am confused about something with your build. How are you using elemental equilibrium if your mainhand does fire damage? Check his ring & boots. Also his Cyclone links. He smart. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
it works like that? interesting whelp, im copying it. with a few twists. probably some different gear. but i will copy the brutality idea (thats really smart..) to use 2 dyadus | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
On August 09 2017 21:46 travis wrote: so his cyclone does no elemental and then berek's gives it cold damage anyways? it works like that? interesting whelp, im copying it. with a few twists. probably some different gear. but i will copy the brutality idea (thats really smart..) to use 2 dyadus Cold dmg to spells via his BV. Small note to advertise my variant, he loses the holy fire cluster which is like 20% of my damage. I *think* it's pretty even in the end until he goes full Alurr and crafts OP rings. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On August 09 2017 21:28 r.Evo wrote: Not really, the main loss is that of a flask slot due to the Adrenaline Quicksilver. Notably I *can* also shieldcharge fast if I want to, but it's just slower and more clunky than simply running past packs at the gear I had. My endgame setup would be Brightbeak+RotP in one slot with a high dmg scepter & Dyadus in weaponswap (Doryanis works). At that point you do ~30% less damage than a Berserker while running through the map (the horror) while retaining 50% more dmg than him against bosses on top of the overall tankyness. And if you'd pick Berserker for a Dyadus variant you're getting ~30% more damage out of it at high levels of gear compared to Juggernaut taking ~20% less. Glossing over the fortify effect & reduced damage taken like Pohx does and seeing Berserker strictly as "40% more done, 10% more taken" is pretty naive. All the Berserker versions of this are imo strictly worse than any Dyadus Jugg or even Chieftain (more regen, easier Endurance charge sustain, less tanky) variant. The main reason to not pick this over Berserker is the Warcry heal, nothing else. That's definitely a good reason but also a debatable one for most scenarios, especially in HC, considering what you lose out on. As for Alurrs DW version, he simply scales movespeed like crazy between Blood Dance, Adrenaline and Jugg passive while getting out wayyy more damage compared to Berserker with Brightbeak. Berserker without Brightbeak is strictly slower. What stops you from going Berserker with 2x Drydus? That is way more damage than any other combination. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
On August 09 2017 22:13 -Archangel- wrote: What stops you from going Berserker with 2x Drydus? That is way more damage than any other combination. Takes 20% more and does 30% more compared to Jugg. Not a good trade. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On August 09 2017 22:22 r.Evo wrote: Takes 20% more and does 30% more compared to Jugg. Not a good trade. Depends on if you are playing SC or HC  | ||
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Alur
Denmark3900 Posts
On August 09 2017 17:50 -Archangel- wrote: That is interesting build but I know what Pohx would say, that you are much slower with cyclone than what he is doing. You can just have a shield setup on weapon swap, your single target will be better and you'd have the same clearspeed. Besides, rotp isn't cheap at the moment. Anyhow, heres an enfeeble hydra kill. No offensive curse and low EO+Frenzy uptime, this could easily be fixed with the right gem setup and not being bad. https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/6smf2j/double_dyadus_rf_2m30s_enfeeble_hydra_kill/ | ||
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Joni_
Germany355 Posts
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
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Alur
Denmark3900 Posts
On August 10 2017 01:57 Joni_ wrote: How did you level the char? When did you switch into RF? Any specific tips on leveling? This looks too sweet to pass on completely, so I guess I'll give it a go with a couple of twists.. :> Grabbed a few 1h and dualwield nodes + RT and just bought cheap OP weapons to sunder with. | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On August 10 2017 02:59 Jerubaal wrote: I'm confused a bit by some of the math and builds: Glacial Cascade is physical with 60% to Cold and I saw that one build uses Hatred. So should I be looking for Phys damage or Elemental? I'm thinking especially on some of these jewel rewards. either one, it will scale equally off of physical or elemental damage. however, if you have added flat sources of elemental damage, then it will scale off of %elemental more. | ||
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Duka08
3391 Posts
a) "100% physical" -> 60% cold + 50% lightning + 0% phys or b) "100% physical" -> 60% cold + 40% lightning + 0% phys ... since there isn't "50% phys left to convert"... per se. Idk if I'm explaining this right, but just curious about how these sorts of mechanics work. With Hatred the idea of "gain %phys EXTRA as cold" makes sense, but converting is a bit confusing as far as which order things occur in. | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
Having 10% phys and 10% ele on your tree would lead to (I think) you dealing 100*.6*1.2 = 72 cold damage and 100*0.4*1.1 = 44 phy damage for a total of 114 damage, rather than 120 damage you would get from 20% increased physical. Same goes for "More" multipliers. One of the reasons you push for 100% conversion is because that means both your physical and elemental increased damage modifiers are applying to all the damage. Like how Izaro's Turmoil jewel with 25% increased fire and 25% increased cold damage acts as a 50% increased damage node if you 100% convert cold to fire. I could be totally misrepresenting this because things can be really, really wonky, so I apologize. On August 10 2017 03:46 Duka08 wrote: Sort of on that topic: if you have multiple "Phys converted to X" type effects, can it go over 100%? Glacial Cascade is physical but then 60% of physical is converted to cold. But then a guide I'm looking at recommends linking the Phys dmg to Lighting support to it, which converts 50% physical to lightning. Does that mean: a) "100% physical" -> 60% cold + 50% lightning + 0% phys or b) "100% physical" -> 60% cold + 40% lightning + 0% phys ... since there isn't "50% phys left to convert"... per se. Idk if I'm explaining this right, but just curious about how these sorts of mechanics work. With Hatred the idea of "gain %phys EXTRA as cold" makes sense, but converting is a bit confusing as far as which order things occur in. This also gets really weird. Assuming the wiki is correct, which is a big assumption because it can be wrong about things for a looooong time and I've heard some reports about damage conversion being buggy post 3.0, you end up scaling things down. For example if we had: 50% of Physical Damage converted to Cold Damage from a skill gem 30% of Physical Damage converted to Fire Damage from gear 30% of Physical Damage converted to Lightning Damage from gear The skill gem conversion takes precedent such that the cold damage gets 50% of the phys. The remaining 50% from gear is then split between fire and lightning damage for 25% each. Here, though, we have two skill gems, and skill gems are not supposed to get scaled according to the wiki. I think the main skill gem takes precedent and doesn't get scaled and then the support phys to lightning gets 100% of the remaining 40% (such that it would end up with 60% cold and 40% lightning). If you had another 50% of your phys damage converted to fire from gear, for example, I think you would end up with 60% cold/20% fire/20%lightning. But unsure. Again, this is all really weird. It definitely doesn't take 60% of the remaining 40% phys, though, I know that much. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
and no duka, it cannot. it would be "b" | ||
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Duka08
3391 Posts
On August 10 2017 03:49 TheTenthDoc wrote: Here, though, we have two skill gems, and skill gems are not supposed to get scaled according to the wiki. I think the main skill gem takes precedent and doesn't get scaled and then the support phys to lightning gets 100% of the remaining 40% (such that it would end up with 60% cold and 40% lightning). Ok this is how I assumed it worked. And I'm assuming the reason to do this is so that 40% lightning "leftover" double dips from +phys AND +ele gear/talents? As opposed to just leaving it as 60%cold+40%phys and using a different support gem? | ||
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Nocticate
Vatican City State2902 Posts
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