EPTLeague of legends numbers revealed ! - Page 22
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Do not turn this into a (insert game here) vs. LoL argument. It's about LoL and Riot's success, which is great for ESPORTS. - Jibba | ||
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Dhalphir
Australia1305 Posts
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bigjenk
United States1543 Posts
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Vic.nQQ
Bulgaria88 Posts
Playing DotA on and off for more than 7 years, to be honest it was easier for me to play my first LoL games than it was to play my first HoN game. For me it was probably for different reasons than for someone who is new to this type of game, but ill make a few points * Recommended items - in HoN (especially when I tried it; also there were no guides like in today's HoN interface) i was trying to relate every hero to it's dota equivalent and then trying to find every dota item i'd like to make for him. This indeed is the wrong approach, but that was my 'instinct' for the first few games. In LoL I simply followed the recommended items one by one, until I got to understand what the rest of the items do and start making my own 'builds' * Towers - being a newbie and not knowing what all the scary animations of the other heroes do, in LoL you have your tower as a safeguard - yes, tower dives are possible in LoL, but quite a bit harder to execute. Blacksmith in hon (ogre magi) takes 9 tower hits to die on lvl 1 with no items pretty much every LoL champion will die in 3 hits in the same conditions This allows beginners to die less due to not knowing the game, as long as they stick back close to the tower, which on it's own allows them more play time, less rage and easier learning curve In any case, I dont want to turn this more in a HoN vs LoL thing, but I do think that riot did a fantastic job and I sure hope they continue the same way. P.S. till few weeks ago when we still had the 1-2 hour login ques, I used to get kinda angry with riot for the 'shitty' server support, but reading the numbers OP posted now, I even think its kinda natural and am actually happy that they managed to find a solution as fast as they did | ||
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Raked
Australia6 Posts
The End. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Ottoxlol
735 Posts
On July 27 2011 02:49 LittLeD wrote: Dota, HoN, Lol...they're all the same. Fun to play, but unfit as an esport. You basically has to have played the game to get any viewing pleasure whatsoever. I don't think this is true. Why would be different for any game? When u first see a sc match you knew what's happening? No. Maybe CS is easy to grasp what's happening but not SC. My friend got into DotA watching me playing and explaining him what's he's seeing... That's like casting/streaming right? | ||
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RickOrShay
New Zealand132 Posts
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demonik187
United States575 Posts
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isleyofthenorth
Austria894 Posts
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Mordiford
4448 Posts
On July 28 2011 15:21 Jermstuddog wrote: Equally though, your fallacy here is assuming that doing more = better. What if you had to juggle with your other hand, while skipping in order to move in "basketball+"? That doesn't make the sport any better. Removing aspects of a game don't necessarily make it a "lesser game" and adding more to it isn't always for the best. I already adressed that prior. Once again, ignoring the nature of physical sport, If you had a basketball game where you had to whack your head and ass every time you dribbled the ball, it would be harder, but it's a pointless mechanical addition that doesn't make the game more active or competitive, removing those things won't make a huge diference. That's why I feel that BroodWar to SC2 is a little different in comparison to DotA to LoL, it was some alleviation and simplification of mechanics, things like MBS and auto-mine were just extra clicks that didn't pit you directly against your opponent, even then, they did increase the skill cap but it's still relatively high with both games. Now, on the other hand, if you removed dribbling and lowered the net by 4 feet, that would make the game kind of stale, slow and require a lot less skill to play. It's not a fallacy and I didn't say it was entirely necessary, I just flipped the previous posters logic to point why that idea doesn't work either. There are games where some simplification can be beneficial, I think Starcraft 2 is one of those examples to be honest. There are also cases where the simpler game, while fun isn't as fit for competitive play... I'd never want to see a tic-tac-toe competition over a Chess competition. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
1v3 if you're fed, rofl cause your team had absolutely nothing to do with that right Eddie? You just carried tPD, EG, n2p, hi2u, etc. all by your lonesome right? | ||
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Valenti
United States16 Posts
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Johnny Business
Sweden1251 Posts
On July 28 2011 20:38 RickOrShay wrote: This made me pretty sad reading this thread, hopefully the Dota2 community will be more refined due to it actually costing real life money(:O). Wait how do you think now? Both dota (I know you can download wc3 and play using irc channels/garena) and HoN costs money and they are the ones bashing LoL for being "easy". | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On July 28 2011 22:17 Valenti wrote: LoL has the worst community or people that I've ever seen anywhere period. They are 95% seriously BM and nerd raging all the time. It's disgusting and a seirious turn-off when you try and play a game competetively and almost everyone in every game gives up or whines the entire game when little things go wrong. I think it would be seriously bad for e-sports if this really became one of the "big" ones. It has the worst community by a long shot and all the big streamers prefer to whine and play solo queue while streaming rather than actually putting in practice hours,learning the game, and developing team dynamics. Not only that but on a professional level the amount of champions they release is ludicrous. How can you ever expect a game to be truly balanced when a new hero is coming out every other week. The community is FAR worse in Dota and HoN where you can carry a whole team and still be called a n00b. At least in Lol most people seem to respect people who play decently. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
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dgReborn
United States453 Posts
On July 29 2011 00:18 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: The other 5% are extremely skilled, well-mannered players, and that's a lot when your userbase is in the millions. 5% of 500,000 consecutive players during peek hours=25,000. 25,000= A slight bit less then the average consecutive playerbase of most games...period...Imo I can be happy with that. I'm really happy for Riot and there success. Now if only they would release Surprise Party Fiddle. | ||
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Atasu
Canada98 Posts
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On July 28 2011 21:48 Mordiford wrote: I already adressed that prior. Once again, ignoring the nature of physical sport, If you had a basketball game where you had to whack your head and ass every time you dribbled the ball, it would be harder, but it's a pointless mechanical addition that doesn't make the game more active or competitive, removing those things won't make a huge diference. That's why I feel that BroodWar to SC2 is a little different in comparison to DotA to LoL, it was some alleviation and simplification of mechanics, things like MBS and auto-mine were just extra clicks that didn't pit you directly against your opponent, even then, they did increase the skill cap but it's still relatively high with both games. Now, on the other hand, if you removed dribbling and lowered the net by 4 feet, that would make the game kind of stale, slow and require a lot less skill to play. It's not a fallacy and I didn't say it was entirely necessary, I just flipped the previous posters logic to point why that idea doesn't work either. There are games where some simplification can be beneficial, I think Starcraft 2 is one of those examples to be honest. There are also cases where the simpler game, while fun isn't as fit for competitive play... I'd never want to see a tic-tac-toe competition over a Chess competition. ok, so the tl;dr of this whole conversation is that there's not actually a direct correlation between mechanical complexity and depth of a game. it's possible to add meaningless mechanics that add nothing to a game and it's possible to remove mechanics that were adding depth to the game. we get it, moving on. the mechanical skills in LoL are certainly less than DotA (can't speak on HoN because I haven't played HoN), but I don't really care tbh . sure, there's no one in LoL who shows off your gosu bursts of 400 APM to cycle through slick Invoker combos, but I still find top level play incredibly interesting in terms of players utilizing their skills at maximum efficiency and making great snap-judgement calls. At the end of the day, the only difference is that they didn't have to cycle through 60 keypresses in 2 seconds to do it. Franky I don't care if you cycle through 60 keypresses or 10 keypresses if the resulting gameplay is based on similarly impressive timing and decision making. That contrived mechanical barrier isn't necessary for a game to be a successful e-sport. whether the actual game mechanics (not physical mechanics) are too dumbed down is frankly a matter of opinion so long as it doesn't create blatantly imbalanced or boring gameplay. SC2 and LoL both strike me as sufficiently balanced and interesting to succeed as e-sports. An example of a failed sequel in this respect would be Smash Brothers Brawl IMO. High level Brawl play is plagued by overly defensive and boring play due to a large number of game mechanics that ultimately limited offensive options and combo potential, which makes the game much less fun to watch when compared to high level Melee play. I don't get that same sense when I go from watching BW -> SC2, or from DotA -> LoL. I sense that the game is different, but I still see many of the same core concepts and I still see plenty of rewarding pro-active play in both. | ||
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Microchaton
France342 Posts
More related : does anybody have been keeping contact with some DotA "legends" (k3v, hex0r, vigoss and such). Anybody knows what are they playing atm and what they think of the different games ? I think loda tried LoL, not 100% sure, but he didn't like it because he couldnt carry people as in DotA/HoN :p. Might be mistaken though. "Pros" opinions are always welcome. We'll be able to see what happens to LoL viewership in next MLG and Gamescom. Hopefully numbers will confirm Dreamhacks' so we can settle the "fake numbers" argument. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
CallMeVigoss on LoL is Vigoss I believe and he's pretty good but doesn't play a lot. Not sure what his opinion of the game is. Chu8 migrated from HoN to LoL and stated that he liked HoN better but still found LoL fun and thought it was a good game, also quite good at LoL, hit #1 on the ladder at one point iirc, but couldn't hold it for more than a day or two. Generally speaking, DotA pros dislike the changes to losing gold on death and denying creeps most notably, but as far as I can tell this is more of a preference/stuck-in-their-ways issue rather than an objectively bad aspect of LoL. I personally just think those changes are just that... changes. They change the way the game is played and it's not necessarily for better or for worse. I argue that they're for better, but it's based on my preferences of how I'd like the game to be played and see perfectly valid points from the other side of the argument. What's not really debatable is whether they make the game more accessible, as the entire concept of denying feels contrived and counter-intuitive and dying and losing thousands of gold for it makes players more upset. So regardless of whether you think it's good or bad for high level play (which again, feels subjective to me), it's definitely better for getting more people playing. General ease of use and ease of following fights feels better in LoL too. The cartoony graphics are actually very good for highlighting what's going on IMO (which again, is better for it's spectators) and there's really no contest between the DotA and HoN shops vs. the LoL Shop, not to mention the difference in ease of use of LoL skills vs. DotA skills. | ||
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Microchaton
France342 Posts
All of you guys who apparently "beat the crap out of the game" are welcome to team up, play tournaments and win everything. | ||
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