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Do not turn this into a (insert game here) vs. LoL argument. It's about LoL and Riot's success, which is great for ESPORTS. - Jibba |
On July 27 2011 01:26 howerpower wrote:
DOTA players are still gonna deny that LoL is legit and that it has more players than DOTA.
Hater's gonna hate I suppose.
What's incredible is how much it has grown lately, it didn't seem this big just like 4 months ago.
Having tons of players =/= "legit". I don't care how many players it has, it still has terrible balance, is awfully casual and has a terrible community in general. It's still the worst of the MOBA games and is much less than HoN, let alone DotA.
It's like... the Britney Spears or Justin Bieber of gaming. It has a huge fanbase, but that doesn't make it suck any less at all.
User was temp banned for this post.
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Baa?21244 Posts
On July 28 2011 07:17 broz0rs wrote:
this type of press release looks as if they (RIOT) are interested in raising capital or getting acquired for an insane amount of money.
Riot actually already got bought by Tencent QQ like half a year ago.
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I get this LOL is so addiciting.
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Kind of gross the bias of both lol and hon/dota players in this thread. Hon is about much more than just carry farming as you can see by how hard msi is raping with push strats lately. Yes hon is a harder mechanical game but lol tends to be much more about objectives, yes the individual skill cap is higher for dota due to more micro but team wise they both require an amazing amount of synergy and team practice to be good at, and in hon the only real exciting lane is the tri lane in current meta, while the solo lanes in lol especially after the new uber top lane nerfs are much more involved outside of farming. And to be completely honest lol is by far the superior game since hon is just a dota reskin+ui remake.
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I find trilanes to me more boring and annoying to play and watch than anything else tbh... I feel like having a jungler feels more "right" :/ And I already though that before playing LoL. It's just awkward.
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I like some of the mechanics they implemented in LoL (Ability points etc.), but for the most part they are focusing on casuals and it's the main reason game has succeeded (that and it being F2P). Things like adding 30 levels, which any at least slightly competitive player will reach in few weeks, shows that they wanted to 'hook' casuals up by introducing the favorite part of casual gamers - grinding.
This sort of gimmick shouldn't have a place in any competitive game.
This is exactly why MMOs are so popular, people enjoy their 'skill' to be measured by artificial means like levels/items/new skills instead of actually becoming better at the game at hand.
It took them so many years to implement a half-assed observer system, yet they have no problem flooding the game with new champions every few weeks and not giving a shit about balance.
Basically it's a decent game and it's not as bad as an average HoN/DotA fanboy makes it out to be, but what turns me off the most is the attitude of Devs who obviously care about making money off casuals instead of making the game a good E-sport.
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On July 28 2011 02:49 hasuprotoss wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 02:16 deth2munkies wrote:
There's typically an hour+ long queue on the NA server during peak times, Wtf? I've never ever had anything close to this. Even the highest ELO players don't have to wait hour+ queues.
To get in the game, not to get a game once you're in.
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On July 28 2011 10:27 deth2munkies wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 02:49 hasuprotoss wrote:On July 28 2011 02:16 deth2munkies wrote:
There's typically an hour+ long queue on the NA server during peak times, Wtf? I've never ever had anything close to this. Even the highest ELO players don't have to wait hour+ queues. To get in the game, not to get a game once you're in.
I've had maybe 3 login queues in the past month, and they've all been ~15 min and around the leona release.
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On July 28 2011 10:29 Eiii wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 10:27 deth2munkies wrote:On July 28 2011 02:49 hasuprotoss wrote:On July 28 2011 02:16 deth2munkies wrote:
There's typically an hour+ long queue on the NA server during peak times, Wtf? I've never ever had anything close to this. Even the highest ELO players don't have to wait hour+ queues. To get in the game, not to get a game once you're in. I've had maybe 3 login queues in the past month, and they've all been ~15 min and around the leona release.
I logged in Thursday at midnight, it took 15 minutes to stop saying "over 9000" in the queue and ~25 mins to get in.
Another time I left it on for half an hour without making a dent int he queue.
I'm not bothering with a game I can't play when I want to.
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League of Legends seems like a really easy game with a low skill ceiling until you actually play it.
Having playing Brood War for a long ass time, I can say it's harder to climb the LoL ladder than it is to climb iCCup.
What makes the game fun is that it is "imbalanced" but the thing is, it's not like a 1v1 thing where you have fucking rockpaperscissors like in StarCraft. If you get outpicked herowise in LoL, you have 4 other heroes on your team to compensate, so actually LoL is more balanced than StarCraft 2.
The leveling and ranking system makes the game good for "Casuals" since it separates them from higher level players. Furthermore, it requires interaction with your team, which may not be the case for SC2 players who just 1v1 over and over again.
SC2 on the other hand, I know plenty of my friends who play SC2 casually (ie 1 hour a week) have reached diamond league, where they play with weirdass cheese strategies. If SC2 was anything like LoL they would never ever be even close to playing with comparatively high level players.
For the skill ceiling, if anyone thinks they're good enough at gaming and could easily hit the skill ceiling cap of LoL, go ahead and try.
Sure in 1 month of 10 hour a day playing you will reach the "skill ceiling" of the laning phase where you're able to get maximum farm, and then you will know the optimal items to get (Note, people who have been playing for over a year sometimes are unable to do this) Yet some who do this easily climb to the top of the ladder, while others are mysteriously stuck and unable to climb up which shows that LoL does have some element of skill involved.
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+ Show Spoiler +Locodoco (11:19): yo
callmevigoss (11:19): sup
Locodoco (11:19): is hon harder than lol?
callmevigoss (11:19): i think lol is harder
Locodoco (11:19): oh wow why?
callmevigoss (11:20): lol needs more teamwork
hon can 1 v 3
if ur fed
lol
lol even tho ur fed u still get kite and stuff
so u acnt really 1 v 3
Locodoco (11:21): ppl keep telling me hon is harder with all the denying and shit
lane phase is more "focused"
callmevigoss (11:21): lol
its like last hitting
thats it
Locodoco (11:21): why'd u switch over anyways?
i thought u making a shit ton of cash in hon
callmevigoss (11:22): nah
lol tournament is like
5-10 times more #$
lol
Locodoco (11:22): u guys havent made a penny from lol yet though zz
callmevigoss (11:22): lol
callmevigross= eddieP
he played for pandemic in dota and EG in hon
says lol is harder than hon
i've talked to every single one of the EG members from hon and they say lol is diffrent not easier (if not harder) and doesnt have a lower skill cap just a different skill cap but im pretty sure u guys played hon at a higher level than any of them~~
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wow i honestly didint expect LoL to be that popular
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Let us hail the king. For now, the situation is clear. The dominant esport of our ages is League of Legends. Sure - SC2 is a decent game and interesting following, but the real success of real time strategyof our era, the defining business model and most successful gameplay idea is that of LoL's. Cheers!
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Canada11379 Posts
On July 27 2011 14:09 rabidch wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 14:00 Mordiford wrote:On July 27 2011 13:58 Daozzt wrote:On July 27 2011 11:22 bumatlarge wrote:On July 27 2011 01:26 howerpower wrote:
DOTA players are still gonna deny that LoL is legit and that it has more players than DOTA.
Hater's gonna hate I suppose.
What's incredible is how much it has grown lately, it didn't seem this big just like 4 months ago. Good DOTA players will always deny anything! + Show Spoiler + Haha, I read this entire thread, this was the only thing that made me smile  Anyway, as much as I dislike the game, it's great that LoL is attracting so many players. Not only is it good for e-sports, but also when DotA 2 comes out, a lot more people will be familiar with the moba (ugh) genre and take notice of the game. Just stand with me and call it an AoS, damnit... MobA applies to so many different games that keeping it applicable to this genre is silly. Stand with me! But seriously, the success of LoL is great, hopefully Dota 2 explodes with comparable or better results. a few of us in the hon/dota thread came up with the name "Team Role Playing Strategy" or TRPS, which kind of fits for all the games since AoS doesnt make sense for anybody who didnt know what Aeon of Strife was (its more of the insider name anyway) and is more telling of the gameplay than "Multiplayer Online Battle Arena". RP because it draws aspects from RPGs and everybody on the team has a different "role", strategy because it derives from RTS and has very similar elements, and team cause you're with a team just like in team deathmatch/CTF. the only games TRPS doesnt fit with are the ones that are controlled by one guy, but those arent really played anyway, and the nice thing is that all these games except for maybe BLC can fit under it
As pen and paper roleplayer, I like this name even less. MMO's are hardly Role Playing, but have a semi-storyline. LoL and the like is definitely not roleplaying except as a branch-off from MMO styled spell battles.
If tower defence was not already a genre of games, it would be a much more appropriate name.
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a free blink every few minutes coupled with no gold loss on death makes this game a bit casual and rewards passive farming over active ganks, but other that that the game isnt as nooby as many people claim.
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On July 28 2011 11:21 tobi9999 wrote:
League of Legends seems like a really easy game with a low skill ceiling until you actually play it.
Having playing Brood War for a long ass time, I can say it's harder to climb the LoL ladder than it is to climb iCCup.
What makes the game fun is that it is "imbalanced" but the thing is, it's not like a 1v1 thing where you have fucking rockpaperscissors like in StarCraft. If you get outpicked herowise in LoL, you have 4 other heroes on your team to compensate, so actually LoL is more balanced than StarCraft 2.
The leveling and ranking system makes the game good for "Casuals" since it separates them from higher level players. Furthermore, it requires interaction with your team, which may not be the case for SC2 players who just 1v1 over and over again.
SC2 on the other hand, I know plenty of my friends who play SC2 casually (ie 1 hour a week) have reached diamond league, where they play with weirdass cheese strategies. If SC2 was anything like LoL they would never ever be even close to playing with comparatively high level players.
For the skill ceiling, if anyone thinks they're good enough at gaming and could easily hit the skill ceiling cap of LoL, go ahead and try.
Sure in 1 month of 10 hour a day playing you will reach the "skill ceiling" of the laning phase where you're able to get maximum farm, and then you will know the optimal items to get (Note, people who have been playing for over a year sometimes are unable to do this) Yet some who do this easily climb to the top of the ladder, while others are mysteriously stuck and unable to climb up which shows that LoL does have some element of skill involved.
I do believe you're confusing different with harder/easier. sc2 is really made for 1v1 while lol is made for 5v5.That aspect of teamplay is more or less completely absent making it a poor comparison imo. Diamond league isnt really that impressive if you look at the distribution of the ladder with diamond and above being 15%ish, thats fairly common when compared to 1800 rating+ on lol being top 1k in the region.
Regarding your comment of people being stuck and unable to climb, many deserve it, some dont, but because it is a team game one individual cannot make every situation into a winning game no matter how good. Ofc excellent players will win in more of those situations than others, if you dumped a 1600 rated player back on an account with no rating he would not get back to his rating with straight wins, he would hover at the lower end for a while beforehand, but many of those games would truly be soul destroying.
Regarding the balancing of the game i have to strongly disagree, while draft pick with your team of friends is fairly balanced in lol, individual characters are far from, there is a small pocket of champs that are viable in competetive play while the rest are not, i feel that that is poor balancing.
Yes ofc there is an element of skill to lol, i dont see any reasoning to suggest otherwise, if there wasnt everyone would be like everyone else. It is just such a shame that LoL becoming an esport isnt GREAT because esport is more about how entertaining something is to watch and how noticible the skill difference is rather than how hard it actually is. I get captivated by watching some gsl matches, during dreamhack i could not enjoy watching the games of LoL anywhere near as much as i did watching DotA or sc2, i dont think im a minority here either.
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On July 28 2011 11:57 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 14:09 rabidch wrote:On July 27 2011 14:00 Mordiford wrote:On July 27 2011 13:58 Daozzt wrote:On July 27 2011 11:22 bumatlarge wrote:On July 27 2011 01:26 howerpower wrote:
DOTA players are still gonna deny that LoL is legit and that it has more players than DOTA.
Hater's gonna hate I suppose.
What's incredible is how much it has grown lately, it didn't seem this big just like 4 months ago. Good DOTA players will always deny anything! + Show Spoiler + Haha, I read this entire thread, this was the only thing that made me smile Anyway, as much as I dislike the game, it's great that LoL is attracting so many players. Not only is it good for e-sports, but also when DotA 2 comes out, a lot more people will be familiar with the moba (ugh) genre and take notice of the game. Just stand with me and call it an AoS, damnit... MobA applies to so many different games that keeping it applicable to this genre is silly. Stand with me! But seriously, the success of LoL is great, hopefully Dota 2 explodes with comparable or better results. a few of us in the hon/dota thread came up with the name "Team Role Playing Strategy" or TRPS, which kind of fits for all the games since AoS doesnt make sense for anybody who didnt know what Aeon of Strife was (its more of the insider name anyway) and is more telling of the gameplay than "Multiplayer Online Battle Arena". RP because it draws aspects from RPGs and everybody on the team has a different "role", strategy because it derives from RTS and has very similar elements, and team cause you're with a team just like in team deathmatch/CTF. the only games TRPS doesnt fit with are the ones that are controlled by one guy, but those arent really played anyway, and the nice thing is that all these games except for maybe BLC can fit under it As pen and paper roleplayer, I like this name even less. MMO's are hardly Role Playing, but have a semi-storyline. LoL and the like is definitely not roleplaying except as a branch-off from MMO styled spell battles. If tower defence was not already a genre of games, it would be a much more appropriate name.
tower defense is really not the name for it these kinds of games, because most of the time it is more than just defending towers. while i understand your background, i think the definition of RPGs has expanded heavily past the old tabletop (and larp) definitions ever since RP video games and whether or not entire genres of RP video games can be argued to not be really RPGs.
imo there is really no other way to best describe the hero/champion system with exp and abilities in these games and moba is not the way to go, it is a faceless name. i suppose Team Tactical Role Playing Game (TTRPG) or Team Action Role Playing Game (TARPG or maybe TARPS(trategy), lol) could be used since use of these names (tactical RPG and action RPG) have already deviated far away from the original RPG term
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Canada11379 Posts
Well one thing the genre really could use is a much shorter name or at least an acronym that's easier to pronounce. That's what makes something like DOTA or MOBA catchy- acronyms pronounced like a two syllable word. TRPS would be Tirps? Trips? Because saying 4-6 letters as letters is a real mouthful. TARPG (tar- pg) is at least pronounceable. The biggest problem is of course getting people to switch. Esperanto is a good idea for an international language- the problem is convincing everyone else to make the switch.
I will agree that the meaning of role playing has vastly changed, even though there is never any 'role' to play.
But I'll stop derailing.
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On July 28 2011 12:41 Falling wrote:
Well one thing the genre really could use is a much shorter name or at least an acronym that's easier to pronounce. That's what makes something like DOTA or MOBA catchy- two syllable acronym pronounced like a word. TRPS would be Tirps? Trips? Because saying 4-6 letters as letters is a real mouthful. TARPG (tar- pg) is at least pronounceable. The biggest problem is of course getting people to switch. Esperanto is a good idea for an international language- the problem is convincing everyone else to make the switch.
But I'll stop derailing.
tarps is easy too! and i can get people behind me (at least TL HoN/DotA and other DotA communities) to use this, its more understandable than dota, hon, lol, blc, or aos (or tob) which doesnt make sense to new people at all and more specific than moba
this threads been derailed enough with worse crap anyway 
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Sum IP of all current heroes: 284,700
Average IP per game: 100
284,700/100 = 2847 games
Each game is around about 30 minutes long not including queue times.
2847 x 30
=
85410 minutes
1423.5 hours
59.3125 days
In order to unlock just the champions I need to play almost 60 days not including queue times which of course are very short.
If you're going about systematically acquiring all heroes, you can divide this in two because all heroes rotate through a 50% off sale period. Further, if you're realistically going to play the game you don't want/need all heroes because going in virginal in a decent level game will lose you that game. You need to play a hero at least 4-5 times before you're vaguely competent, and it will usually take you a few games to re-acclimatize to a char until you have 30-50+ games with that char. So lets say you go for a more manageable upper end of 20 heroes, still ridiculous, I've never seen a pro use more than a roster of 10, even when they're using tourney accounts with all champs unlocked. but let's be generous to your argument. 20 champs, 50% 6300, 50% 3150, none of the cheap ones.
94,500 IP (/2 for sales)
= 47, 250 IP
so about 10 days played to get yourself a full roster of champs, not much more than leveling a WoW char to be ready to attempt top tier PVP or raiding, not much more than it takes to hit plat or so for a SC2 rookie. Though, honestly, the real cost of having such a deep roster is getting a full set of runes for every scenario. There's a lot of overlap, but most champions have a particular set that they need to be optimised that most others don't share and with a roster as deep as 20 you're going to need most.
Still, it's fairly clear you don't know what you're talking about. Even if you do go about the ludicrous task of unlocking every champ through IP alone, it'll only take half as long as you suggest.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs1/1900989_o.gif)
