Wasn't around for a bit (why I didn't get back to you right away, mastergriggy--sorry. I see that the issue was resolved anyway, though edit: just noticed your new signature: o_O. Thanks. :-). Not sure I deserve it just because you misread Rb3 as Rb6. It's an easy mistake to make...)). I've just finished reading through all the posts I missed.

I know that jdseemoreglass and a few others called this 12th move of Black's, but I have to say it comes as a surprise to me. It really cuts down on Black's light-squared Bishop's mobility in the short term, and that ends up making a big difference, because of all the short-term tactics on the board. Meanwhile, I don't really see what this move gains for Black, since he could always have played ...Ke7 to develop his King after ...12 Bxd7. Edit: on further thought: + Show Spoiler +

The main thing Ng5 stands to gain from this move is probably the ability to play ...Ba6, which unlike the similar ...Bb5 does not block the b-file.

What this move shows, I think, is that Ng5 never planned to trade down--rather he intends to play the moves ...Ba6 and (assuming we play a3) ...Be7.

In any case, I'm happy Ng5 played this. As lots of people have pointed out already, this makes 13. a3 look a lot better for us than it would have had Black played 12...Bxd7. If he had played that, I was planning to vote for 13. Ke2. As it is, I'll have a look at the position before casting my vote, but regardless it looks like 13. a3 will win the vote handily, and that seems fine.

qrs

United States3637 Posts

October 02 2011 02:22 GMT

#1610

OK, after having a look at the board, I'm getting on the 13. a3 wagon as well. Although 13. Ke2 still may be playable, Black's 12th move removed the main reason for playing it and if anything makes it a worse move + Show Spoiler +

because unlike ...Bb5+, ...Ba6+ doesn't block Black from playing ...Rxb2.

The position after 13. Ke2 Ba6+ 14. Ke3 Bxd2+, etc. seems to be just a worse version of the position after 13. a3 Bxd2+. etc.

my vote: a3

Xaerkar

United States230 Posts

October 02 2011 02:41 GMT

#1611

Whoa been gone for a few moves, how did the board end up like this?!!!

13. a3

LaXerCannon

Canada558 Posts

October 02 2011 02:53 GMT

#1612

qrs

United States3637 Posts

October 02 2011 03:14 GMT

#1613

With 13. a3 looking like a shoo-in, it's time to consider what comes next. We've spent some time considering the line where Black plays + Show Spoiler +

13...Bxd2+

We've spent less time considering the line where he plays + Show Spoiler +

13...Be7

which I'd consider more likely considering that he's chosen to play 12... Kxd7. + Show Spoiler [reasoning] +

If Ng5 wanted to go the exchange route, it seems to me that he would have played 12...Bxd7 instead, considering the difficulties that ...Rb3 gives us in that line (but not in this one).

The following post contains some good analysis and is worth looking at.

On October 01 2011 22:54 greggy wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

Although I agree with 13.a3, I highly doubt black will exchange on d2. 13. .. Be7 is far superior imho. Moreover, white has to acknowledge that upon playing b4 black will respond with a5, sacrificing a pawn but opening a file for the rook and making white's life that much more difficult. Without playing b4 however, black can play c5 untroubled. >_>

A couple of lines I went over:

13. a3 Be7

14. b4 a5

15. ba Ba6 16. ??? Seriously, I see no good continuation for white. Nxe4 transposes into what I've written above but worse for white; 16. Nf1 h6 17. Bd2 Rb2 and white might as well concede.

14. Nxe4 de

15. Ng5 f5 16. ef Bxf6 17. Nxe4 Bxd4 with threats of Bb7 and Re8 - black is far better off with a bishop pair in an open position;

15. Ng5 f5 16. b4 h6 17. Nh3 g5 and both bishop and knight are out of play for white;

15. Nd2 f5 16. ef Bxf6 is same as the first variation;

15. Nd2 f5 16. b4 a5 17. ba Ba6 and black is far better despite being two pawns down (f.e. 18. f3 e3 19. Nf1 f4 20. g3 g5);

15. Nd2 f5 16. f3 e3 as above;

15. Nd2 f5 16. Nf1 g5 17. Ng3 Ke6.

14. O-O c5 15. dc Ba6 16. Rd1 Nxc5 17. b4 Nd3 18. Nb3 is what I feel to be the most safe continuation for white. Alternatively,

15. dc Bxc5 16. b4 Bxf2 17. Rxf2 Nxf2 18. Kxf2 Bb7 is rather ambitious and I guess unfounded, but the "safer" 16. .. Be7 allows 17. Nxe4 de 18. Rd1+ Kc7 ( 18. .. Ke8 19. Ng5 Bf5 20. Be3 a6 21. Rac1) 19. Ng5 f6 20. Nxe4 fe are both advantageous to white.

P.S. Sorry if I just barged in into the game - I don't browse TL very often - and if my analysis is incorrect, anyone ~~with an engine~~ feel free to run through and post improvements or PM me for further discussion.

greggy makes some good points, imo, especially about the key moves+ Show Spoiler +

13. a3 Be7:
14. b4 a5

and

14. 0-0 c5

edit: a correction, though: + Show Spoiler +

In the lines that begin 14. Nxe4 dxe4, 15. Ng5? drops the pawn after all, to 15...BxN 16. BxB Rxb2.

qrs

United States3637 Posts

October 02 2011 03:52 GMT

#1614

Move 12 Votes (final count)

+ Show Spoiler [Voters] +

11. Qxd7+: 23 (EvilNalu, hype[NZ], dtvu, Bill Murray, Ikari, qrs, mastergriggy, wuBu, keyStorm, chesshaha, jdseemoreglass, Cloud9157, Mash2, hp.Shell, timh, aphorism, Raysalis, Malinor, Chezus, Tehforce, itsjustatank, Psilver, mcc)
11. Qc2: 1 (~~Bill Murray~~, wizard944)

+ Show Spoiler [bar graph] +

Move 13 Votes

+ Show Spoiler [Voters] +

13. Rb1: 0-1 (Bill Murray?) (In a spoilered post, Bill Murray implied that he had changed his mind about this move, but he never withdrew his vote)
13. a3: 24-25 (jdseemoreglass, GolemMadness, Malinor, mastergriggy, SheaR619, Raysalis, GenesisX, Blazinghand, EvilNalu, wuBu, chesshaha, keyStorm, Ikari, aphorism, jsemmens, itsjustatank, Cloud9157?, timh, TehForce, Malli, Chezus, Psilver, qrs, Xaerkar, LaXerCannon) (Cloud9157 expressed a preference for this move but didn't outright state that it was his vote.)
13. 0-0: 2 (~~keyStorm~~, dtvu, wizard944)

+ Show Spoiler [bar graph] +